Discussing Hell and Eternal Damnation

C

Cyprianic

Catholic Catechist
I refuse to believe that a loving God would send any of his children to eternal damnation in some made up fire pit.

Where is hell mentioned in the Bible? Before we get into the translation issue. Yes there are some Hebrew words that people translate to hell. The Hebrew word Sheol was sometimes translated to ‘hell’ but it sure doesn’t seem to have the connotation of a fiery pit of eternal damnation. Also in the early 1600s the King James Version translated a bunch of words to ‘hell’ where the Bible verses containing the word come from.

But let’s forget all that. We know God is eternally loving and merciful, would it make ANY sense for him to damn his creation? Or is it more likely that perhaps a purgatory type purification exists instead where our souls are purified through suffering depending on the severity of our sins?

Would any of you who have children damn them to eternal suffering? You wouldn’t, and God wouldn’t either.

There is no ‘hell’
 
Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (CCC 1035)
 
Cyprianic said:
I refuse to believe that a loving God would send any of his children to eternal damnation in some made up fire pit.
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Those He sends to hell are not His children.

Cyprianic said:
Where is hell mentioned in the Bible?
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No need for the semantic dispute. Everyone here understands what is meant by hell.

Cyprianic said:
We know God is eternally loving and merciful, would it make ANY sense for him to damn his creation?
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Yes, because His creation is in sinful rebellion and He is Righteous and Just.
 
I'll bite

"Where" are people weeping and gnashing their teeth "in the Bible"? Why are they weeping and gnashing their teeth? Why are people separated? Who does the separating?

When you meet Christ at your death, will there be no judgment? He'll just say, "Yeah, I was just kidding."

If "knowing God" is eternal life, and God also says to some "I never knew you" ... how do you interpret that, since you like to interpret things for yourself?

Universalism is so old and tiresome. What's more, it's been a point of view that has been heretical for centuries.
 
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Lawrence87 said:
So what happens to [insert worst person you can imagine]?
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The punishment would fit the crime. Even if one is say a mass murderer, should say 70 years of life of grave sin justify eternal punishment? Maybe a better thread title would be ‘Hell is temporary’

So they would be punished and suffer but not for eternity. Until they pay the price and are reunited with God.
 
Also in most cases when hell is written, the word Jesus uses is “Gehenna.”

The term does not refer to a place of eternal torment but to a notorious valley just outside the walls of Jerusalem, believed by many Jews at the time to be the most unholy place on earth. It was where, according to the Old Testament, ancient Israelites practiced child sacrifice to foreign gods. The God of Israel had condemned and forsaken the place.

So how do we know it is an eternal place of damnation?
 
God's lonely asperger said:
This thread and idea falls too much into "if God real, why bad happen?" Hell is very much real. It's pointless to argue for people who blaspheme God all their lives and vehemently try to weed out any faith in men.

Obligatory mention of OP having 1 post by this ID.
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Then prove your point. What about this?

Jeremiah 7:31​


“They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.”

So it entered his mind later?
 
Cyprianic said:
The punishment would fit the crime. Even if one is say a mass murderer, should say 70 years of life of grave sin justify eternal punishment? Maybe a better thread title would be ‘Hell is temporary’

So they would be punished and suffer but not for eternity. Until they pay the price and are reunited with God.
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So we can just do what we want, go to the naughty step for a while and then be united with God afterwards?

Also this life is where we get to determine our eternal position, it is not just God's decision. We decide ourselves if we want to unite to God for eternity. If we live our life in sin, and are unrepentant, then we are as much saying to God that we do not want to be in His Kingdom eternally, than He is threatening us with that.

Why would God violate our will and send us to heaven anyway even if we clearly live our lives as though we do not want that...
 
Whilst I believe in heaven and hell, I think a more difficult question is, what happens to those people who have never been told about Christ and therefore never have the opportunity to be a Christian?

I find it difficult to believe that Christ would condemn them to hell, when they never had the chance to choose.
 
i have a very limited understanding of the bible but how i think of it is that you dont go from 0 to 100 when you die. You continue the momentum you already established. Many people already live a hellish existence here on earth. god is not sending them to hell he is simply not able to save them because they stubbornly chose to continue the path they are on.

Our so called elites have all the material wealth in the world but they look absolutely miserable and the fact they choose to inflict such evil on the world and spread misery to millions of others suggest they are dead inside and far from living a happy existence.

hellish and heavenly states of being are real on this plane of reality already so why would it not be real in whatever comes after it.
 
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Cuchulainn said:
Whilst I believe in heaven and hell, I think a more difficult question is, what happens to those people who have never been told about Christ and therefore never have the opportunity to be a Christian?

I find it difficult to believe that Christ would condemn them to hell, when they never had the chance to choose.
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God will judge according to different measure for those who are unaware of Christ. We do not know what this will be, but I think it is evident from the fact that teachers who lead their sheep astray will be judged more harshly, because they ought to know better. Therefore those who are aware of the Lord's Commandments will be held to them, those who aren't aware will be judged by a different standard. Though we do not know what this standard will be.
 
ginsu said:
i have a very limited understanding of the bible but how i think of it is that you dont go from 0 to 100 when you die. You continue the momentum you already established. Many people already live a hellish existence here on earth. god is not sending them to hell he is simply not able to save them because they stubbornly chose to continue the path they are on.
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I think you are on to something. This is the type of insight that I hoped this thread would start.


ginsu said:
Our so called elites have all the material wealth in the world but they look absolutely miserable and the fact they choose to inflict such evil on the world and spread misery to millions of others suggest they are dead inside and far from living a happy existence.
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ginsu said:
hellish and heavenly states of being are real on this plane of reality already so why would it not be real in whatever comes after it.
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So maybe I chose the wrong thread title. Maybe Hell is temporary.

If God is all merciful and loving would he damn people forever? That means he isn’t all merciful and loving right? Which is it?
 
Lawrence87 said:
So we can just do what we want, go to the naughty step for a while and then be united with God afterwards?
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Maybe a while is 1000 years of what we humans would feel as pain. But eternity?

Lawrence87 said:
Also this life is where we get to determine our eternal position, it is not just God's decision. We decide ourselves if we want to unite to God for eternity. If we live our life in sin, and are unrepentant, then we are as much saying to God that we do not want to be in His Kingdom eternally, than He is threatening us with that.
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We decide for ourselves. Maybe, partially we do. Sometimes there are forces beyond our control that determine our behavior. Maybe schizophrenia or psychopathy or severe mental disease runs in a persons family. Maybe they have compulsions that stop them from living purely. Do they deserve eternal punishment?
 
Cyprianic said:

Jeremiah 7:31​


“They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.”

So it entered his mind later?
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Yes? I mean, do you not believe in Christ? That was the whole point of His coming... None of what you say even makes sense from a Catholic view. What's the deal?

Cuchulainn said:
Whilst I believe in heaven and hell, I think a more difficult question is, what happens to those people who have never been told about Christ and therefore never have the opportunity to be a Christian?

I find it difficult to believe that Christ would condemn them to hell, when they never had the chance to choose.
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That is why there are so many historical missionaries on Indonesia, Africa, Caribbeans, etc etc. To this day.
The guy who wrote the most used Evangelical Bible translation in Portuguese was a Reformed missionary on the Dutch East Indies.
 
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