Oh the guy I bought my house from warned me. I didn’t think that would happen though.
Digital nomad jobs
- Thread starter KulturedKaveman
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This is on the money!
Ok, that might be a very real option. Ditch the area, Just get a plant job in the intermountain northwest or south. You’re right though. I’d be the migrant if I did that and I’m sure the Portuguese and Thai have their own hang ups with migrants fleeing Clown world like we do migrants fleeing poverty.
But fleeing to a red state does = no weed. Idk, I’d gladly give it up if it increased quality of life. And yes, before anyone says anything I’m well aware those listed countries are redder than America. It’s something I could live without.
My "recipe":
1. Begin upskilling and find out what tech skills suit your talents. For me that was Python, SQL, Data Science. I took a bootcamp.
But, I already had a very analytical mind and worked as a financial analyst. I've spoken to a couple of other guys here who are more creative/design oriented. They could draw -- so a UI/UX bootcamp may make sense for them, they can design customer-facing software products.
The most lucrative path is Software Engineering, but it does take a sharp mind and plenty of work to get going.
2. Grind until you find that first job. I have a bunch of friends who've taken software engineering bootcamps; they've all gotten jobs, though some had an easier time than others. Typically, once you get going, after a year or two it pays quite well. You may have to get an internship for 6 months first, and keep grinding for the first "real" job.
3. Once you have been working for 2-3 years, you have the power to hunt for a new tech job, which means you can find a fully-remote one across the US. You can begin buying a property in Portugal, or just a red state, or just a red part of a blue state.
Ultimately, I really can't stress how much I appreciate bootcamps. It isn't cheap, but it's way cheaper than a university, and they only teach you things that are directly oriented towards finding employment immediately. After my bootcamp, I watched a roommate teach a university CS class over Zoom. I can honestly say the bootcamp instructors were dramatically better.
I will say, I had to work hard to finish the bootcamp, and I was more motivated than I had ever been in school. Over 16 weeks, I went through a 24-pack of energy drinks. But it ended, and I went caffeine-free for a while and recovered, and got established. It's the best decision I've made as an adult besides finding my wife.
Some of these jobs like Data Architect pay really well, but only make sense for people with LOTS of tech skills that have existed in the corporate data ecosystem for a long time. Other jobs like Data Engineer, Network Engineer, Product Designer...etc are a bit more generic and don't take that much experience to get going.
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I can confirm this. I left the USA in 2011 and it took a full 5 years before I was moderately on my feet again, and another 5 years before I was at more or less a similar quality of life as I had before I left. Do not underestimate the difficultly and bureaucracy of moving overseas, learning new languages, figuring out new bureaucratic systems, getting a new drivers license (classes and tests cost around $1000), etc. I had EU family to help... If you are just coming in cold, it will be even harder. IMO, learn a skill that can be done remotely or rurally, and repopulate the red states/zones. I can also assure you that western Europe is more clown world than the US at this point. Exceptions here are the Visegrad nations, but expect MUCH lower salaries, if you are not already remotely employed from a western nation. And in that case, it will be very difficult to get a visa to stay here anyway. They want skilled workers who will fund the tax system. Moving overseas is not for the faint of heart, the weak-willed, or the inflexible.
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but also lower costs of living?
Can you confirm this?
What I see from videos about food and gasoline prices it simply blows my mind.
Lower costs of living in general, yes. IMO, they have a better quality of life in many parts of EE, even if the salaries are lower. It only pinches when they travel to western Europe or to more expensive countries.
If you are skilled and not faint of heart, you can make a great living for yourself in the United States, and there are still so many places that are still nice where people respect the rule of law.
The downside is that the main places to find true economic opportunities are cities… and the larger the city the more opportunities. NYC, Bay Area, Seattle, etc. You can make money and establish yourself, then move elsewhere. The downside of that of course is it means being remote, and most high-paying remote jobs involve coworkers that all list their pronouns.
It isn’t “hard” to hold your tongue, it isn’t “hard” to just not say anything about pronouns or corporate Pride Month, but you also know that even speaking up in a civil way will get you fired.
It feels like we are living in Mao’s cultural revolution. Don’t speak up, do your time, all will be provided. A slow-moving Faustian bargain.
I will share some about my experience in tech in case it helps. I also work a STEM job that can be done remotely, but it is less common than software engineering. For every one of us, there are ten software engineers out there. I broke into the industry thanks to having a master's degree, but even that is not enough and you have to learn new skills on your own such as SQL. It took me 6 months to find my current job so I don't know how the guys with only bootcamp experience are faring, but now that I'm here it's smooth sailing. I do think it's possible to succeed through self-study and online courses/bootcamps, but you will have to hustle hard to prove your worth because there are thousands of Panjeets and Vikrams that have the exact same idea fighting for the same jobs.
I'm making six figures which is still good in the Midwest, and I truly have only about 5-6 hours of actual work in a day. If you're working remotely, you may have some time to yourself during the day when you can clean, read the Bible, study coding or whatever you want as long as you're near the computer. Though I have friends in tech that work their butts off 11-12 hours a day to make more in California. When you consider the hours spent, the cost of living increase, and lack of work-life balance at those big cutthroat companies I would not say they are coming out on top.
What's good about tech jobs such as those mentioned by cosine is that you're not limited to any one industry, there are jobs available in every industry. My last position was fully remote at a software company, now I'm in the financial industry on a hybrid schedule. My last company was pushing LBGT stuff hard and another company I interviewed at was nonstop shilling for the Zelensky regime and fundraising for Ukraine. Thankfully I don't have to deal with that anymore and our HR department is very minimal, though I'm basically working for usurers. There's no place without sin anymore, you have to pick your poison.
As mentioned, a major downside is that most jobs tend to be concentrated in large cities if they're not remote. The remote jobs are tougher to get for those with only a couple years of experience. But there are still many big cities away from the coasts with a fair number of tech jobs that are also tolerable to live in. Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Fort Worth... they're still liberal but far more moderate than NY or SF.
Remote work can be really rough if you don't have an active social life. I am happier now working in the office a few days a week where I actually see people, though if I were married remote work may not be so bad. After another year or two at this job, I'm really thinking of going freelance and moving to Bulgaria. The biggest obstacle is the time difference. If you're living in Eastern Europe and your clients are in the US, you may have to take calls at 11pm. There are also plenty of European clients, but it seems they tend to pay less. Also, the tax situation can be complicated for Americans overseas. But on the bright side salaries in tech in countries like Bulgaria, Romania, or Czechia are several times the average salary in those places. So in the worst case scenario you can find a local job and sometimes only English is required.
I'm making six figures which is still good in the Midwest, and I truly have only about 5-6 hours of actual work in a day. If you're working remotely, you may have some time to yourself during the day when you can clean, read the Bible, study coding or whatever you want as long as you're near the computer. Though I have friends in tech that work their butts off 11-12 hours a day to make more in California. When you consider the hours spent, the cost of living increase, and lack of work-life balance at those big cutthroat companies I would not say they are coming out on top.
What's good about tech jobs such as those mentioned by cosine is that you're not limited to any one industry, there are jobs available in every industry. My last position was fully remote at a software company, now I'm in the financial industry on a hybrid schedule. My last company was pushing LBGT stuff hard and another company I interviewed at was nonstop shilling for the Zelensky regime and fundraising for Ukraine. Thankfully I don't have to deal with that anymore and our HR department is very minimal, though I'm basically working for usurers. There's no place without sin anymore, you have to pick your poison.
As mentioned, a major downside is that most jobs tend to be concentrated in large cities if they're not remote. The remote jobs are tougher to get for those with only a couple years of experience. But there are still many big cities away from the coasts with a fair number of tech jobs that are also tolerable to live in. Salt Lake City, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Nashville, Pittsburgh, Charlotte, Fort Worth... they're still liberal but far more moderate than NY or SF.
Remote work can be really rough if you don't have an active social life. I am happier now working in the office a few days a week where I actually see people, though if I were married remote work may not be so bad. After another year or two at this job, I'm really thinking of going freelance and moving to Bulgaria. The biggest obstacle is the time difference. If you're living in Eastern Europe and your clients are in the US, you may have to take calls at 11pm. There are also plenty of European clients, but it seems they tend to pay less. Also, the tax situation can be complicated for Americans overseas. But on the bright side salaries in tech in countries like Bulgaria, Romania, or Czechia are several times the average salary in those places. So in the worst case scenario you can find a local job and sometimes only English is required.
The first part of this is to be part of the gig economy in the sense that you are your own boss (generally speaking) or at least have flexibility to not be in a cubicle or some such thing as in the past. The second, and big part of this topic is the general forum reality that moving away from the USA is almost entirely about women.
I agree that other places are romanticized but I have enough wisdom from age that I can tell you that I realize that, not having lived for very long periods in other places, just by the sheer fact that I'm closer to a golden handcuffs scenario in the USA than most. But, if investments and similar things go the way I think they will, staying in other places - and this is the point of things - for shorter periods (months) but being a mainstay there will be the key. I think that kind of living situation, similar to old people going to Florida or California for the winter, will at least provide long term variety, cost savings, and the possibility of enjoying more feminine company that won't be back in the USA until major disruption comes.
I agree that other places are romanticized but I have enough wisdom from age that I can tell you that I realize that, not having lived for very long periods in other places, just by the sheer fact that I'm closer to a golden handcuffs scenario in the USA than most. But, if investments and similar things go the way I think they will, staying in other places - and this is the point of things - for shorter periods (months) but being a mainstay there will be the key. I think that kind of living situation, similar to old people going to Florida or California for the winter, will at least provide long term variety, cost savings, and the possibility of enjoying more feminine company that won't be back in the USA until major disruption comes.
This would be an idea situation, if the airlines don't completely shut down.
That's what worries me. I feel like I need to either decide to stay here in the US in a red area and be happy making good money but with bad marriage prospects. Or I deal with the hassle of moving overseas and running my business with US clients in completely different time zones, just to have an easier time finding a young, beautiful wife that would love to marry a rich American.
But I have a feeling that travel will soon be shut down and that a decision needs to be made in the next year or so.
They are not big fans of letting the plebs travel, but have you seen any indication a shutdown is imminent? I believe a more likely scenario is exorbitant carbon taxes that will make flying unaffordable for all but the richest people.
Great discussion here. I fully agree -- it's hard to get started straight from a bootcamp. Once you're going, it's fantastic.
Even my woke friends who went through bootcamps agree: Asians will work 16 hours a day and apply to 1000 jobs.
White people need to lean into networking, events, conferences...etc.
Being able to do chores, go for a run at lunch, lift in the home gym, etc, is incredible.
It feels like my company is only woke in name. At the end of the day they are happy to hire whoever does the job well. Makes it feel like they are just playing the game and it feels easy to ignore. With a lot of coworkers you can joke about a lot of HR stuff. "Oh, that's right, you're not supposed to harass anyone, thank goodness they had a training on that"
Absolutely. It's easy to get a hybrid job right out of school. Fully remote jobs get LOTS of applicants.
Even when I had a lot of friends, but no wife, I felt a bit lonely working remotely.
A big potential risk: you get a great remote job, all is going well, they let you work from Europe or wherever you want. Then after some period, you get laid off one day. Maybe the economy's in a rut, now you basically have to return to the US to find something or your tech career has a hole in it, even if you are OK financially because you've been saving.
It just makes sense to have some sort of setup where you can come back if needed. At least if you are living in a cheaper country with an American tech salary, you should be able to save up quite a lot. Striving for even partial financial independence is so crucial.
I’ve noticed this. You kiss the rings - you get the middle class brass ring. Im stuck in a hot factory setting because I want nothing to do with the pronoun people but still want $. I was neutral 2014 2015 but now I have to attend church twice a week to fight from feeling genuine hatred for them because of what they’ve done since 2020 so nonchalantly. Why I want to go remote. I get to work with the pronoun people if I want better working conditions in an office setting.
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Oil and gas companies are way less woke. Some are performatively woke, and you'll also have companies like Invenergy that have gas, renewables, and transmission. Invenergy is politically "purple". I think @Get2choppaaa works in the energy sector, oil & gas? His advice is to get skills that are useful in that field. And boy, there's everything from blue collar jobs to accounting to software to data engineers, logistics/supply chain.
If you get skills in that field, you can first get a hybrid or fully in-office job that pays decently, and then when you have more experience you can probably find a remote one that still pays well.
A look at SLB (formerly Schlumberger)'s website shows there are no DEI, ESG, or alphabet acronyms in "about us".
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Correct. I work in Energy.
While SLB (formerly Schlumberger) is less woke than AMAZON, I would not work there. I have had MANY opportunities to work there at high levels. They are an OFS (oil field service company) and while worth about $100B..... an ideal situation is to work for an Operator/Super Major (Oxy/Conoco/ExxonMobil/Chevron/Shell/BP/Marathon ect...)
I have some friends who are working at SLB making somewhere around 200K a year and really hate the politics there. Vs Hailburton or Baker Hughes.... I could give a ton of info about OFS companies as I worked in this space for a couple years as a Sr. Manager Role in Supply Chain....that said....
While I am not going to name my current firm, its a household name. I personally love working at a huge company, and look at it like an opportunity to be a part of a giant machine that makes global impact. Some people would do better with smaller firms., I've worked at small companies (25 Mil annual rev - 180 employees) Medium Publicly Traded companies (1B annual revenue - 1800 employees) and huge companies (300+B rev 100K employees) and the Marines (180K Marines) so I've seen bureaucracies at different sizes.
My brother also works in the utilities w/in energy and is in a GIS role. He does pretty well for himself also (early 30's making 125K/yr + great benefits)... I'm 35 and a couple levels above here he is.
In Energy...You can do anything from IT office to offshore manual work. Literally you name the job field, we employ it. The pay is generally 1.5X to 2X the same position in other industries. Hence the term commonly associated with Oil and Gas as "The Golden Handcuff"
I happen to work in a pretty highly compensated role that is niche to my skill set being both Operational and Strategic in scope.... but there's plenty of people I interact with whom work in that category at different levels (IT/Planning/Financial Mapping/Safety).
I love the where i work.... its as pure "money" focused company, capital projects are share holder value driven and not ESG driven (though we do invest in those spaces in a way that wins for the 30 year time horizon not the quick buck) .... and on DEI, sure its an element of all public companies but at least my company is a US firm that doesnt push that shit down your throat like Shell/BP.
It's been good experience for me and for my family. But I am sure I could just as easily look in areas where ive found issues and play the victim. I've been laid off in the industry, given a huge severance package (4 months pay + benfits) only to be rehired 2 months later at 1.5X my previous salary. The industry has ups and downs... but its been great for me.
Not everyone has my great fortune or expereinces. So this is an N of 1 case....and I have had opportunity in other industries (Amazon opportunities for 200K a year).... I'm staying in the industry.
One suggestion for quick money relative to investment is learning a trade that gets you Offshore work. That pays bigly AND gets you street cred)
Its not for everyone, and many would not like the day to day politics. But if you can adapt and keep your head low, its a good ride.
Hope to be of service on specific inquiries in any way I can...
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Palsofchaos
Catholic
Start a YouTube channel if you really want to be a digital nomad. You will want to leverage the internet In some way to make money while abroad.
Otherwise, move to a red state. Taxes aren’t nearly as bad in a red state compared to a blue metro area.
Otherwise, move to a red state. Taxes aren’t nearly as bad in a red state compared to a blue metro area.
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Thanks guys, I think I already got a pretty good plan based on this thread. It’s a two pronged approach. Another thing I’d like to bring up is I’m 33. Is this too old to embark on something like this?
I'm 33 too. We're not too old to change careers or move abroad. We are single with the potential at a very happy future. Now is the time to take risks before we have more responsibilities. I changed my career two years ago and love it.
My brother moved abroad and changed careers at a similar age. It worked out well.
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I started my bootcamp age 31. There were plenty of people older than me.
No, you are not too old.
I would say, that your history of work, talents, hobbies, interests, etc, is likely to play a bigger role for you than it does for a 23 year old going through upskilling. An obvious example was a former nurse who did a software engineering bootcamp. She completed her bootcamp and promptly got a software job at a healthcare company. Makes tons of sense, she brings experience to the table that her software coworkers don't have.
I worked as a financial analyst, so that made it easier for me to get a data science job that also benefited from the analyst background. My previous work history helped determine what industry I would approach with the new tech skills. If you've been bartending or something, maybe that's less helpful. But even in that case, you could still target companies making apps selling wine or something.
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Yes, this is a modern corporate and general culture annoyance. "Gaps" lol, go stuff it
Yes, this would be the best way. Preferably after you hit a major jackpot run in stocks and btc
some advice from jobstacking people is that you never want to put freelance or self employed on your resume/linkedin. What you do is fill in the gaps with anything that seems legitimate on paper. you were always working for a boss. Thats is what they want to see on the application. Are you a loyal worker drone. Gaps, freelancing, self employed, entrepeneurship shows rebelion and free spirit and thats not what they are looking for. It doesn't matter if its real or not just fill in the gaps so they can check off their boxes don't worry about it play the system because the system is playing you.
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