Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

I've decided to do the guys here a solid by not buying bitcoin, as it would almost certainly crash the next day if I did. As long as I don't buy it should keep going up. I'll make sure to post a warning for the people here if I decide to get into bitcoin, so you all can sell before the big crash.
I have also decided to do the guys here a solid by buying bitcoin, as it will most certainly go up the next day when I do. As long as I buy it, it will keep going up. I'll make sure to post my unlimited gains for the people here in hopes they too will buy bitcoin before the next big bull run. I wouldn't want anyone here to miss out on a free, unlimited supply of easy money.
 
Why would someone need to secure or "protect" one's bitcoin seed phrase when it is already the most perfect form of currency ever invented that is impossible to trace, steal, confiscate, or lose?
Bitcoin is a tool. Yes, you can use a tool with no training but it will be less effective and possibly dangerous.

A person with no training or experience can walk into a gun shop and buy a pistol for self defense - they will be marginally able to defend themselves and also have a chance to negligently shoot themselves or a loved one.

With training, they will be more effective, and less likely to put bullets where they don’t belong.

Having a written seed phrase is one way to store bitcoin, but it is only one of a multitude of ways that are appropriate, depending on your physical security and preferences.
It's just one goal post shift after another with a constant 150 page learning curve. The never ending time sink scam that is bitcoin... "It's the most secure form of money in human history, but no, wait, if you want to make it more secure even though there's nothing to worry about because it is unpenetrable and impossible to misplace or lose, buy a washer and dryer and some seeds and then crush the seeds with a stamping tool and off ramp them into a hot pocket."

Peak Clown World. Honk! Honk!
With great power comes great responsibility. Owning bitcoin is an enormous responsibility - many people are afraid of that level of responsibility, and would rather an ETF or an exchange own it for them.

You are packing your own parachute, pre-flighting your own plane, and rigging your own belay rope. You had better know exactly what you are doing or there will be consequences - there is no re-do and no customer service. Once you jump out of the plane, or go over the ledge, whatever happens is a direct result of how serious you took that responsibility.
 
With great power comes great responsibility. Owning bitcoin is an enormous responsibility - many people are afraid of that level of responsibility, and would rather an ETF or an exchange own it for them.

You are packing your own parachute, pre-flighting your own plane, and rigging your own belay rope. You had better know exactly what you are doing or there will be consequences - there is no re-do and no customer service. Once you jump out of the plane, or go over the ledge, whatever happens is a direct result of how serious you took that responsibility.
I've long since given up trying to Orange Pill my friends and family, but I remember explaining the self-sovereignty benefits of Bitcoin, and being surprised that this was perceived not as a benefit (as I viewed it), but as a drawback. It really confused me.

I remember explaining the respective benefits and drawbacks of self-custody vs. using Coinbase to one friend, and he said that if he was ever to get some Bitcoin (he still hasn't) he would definitely go with Coinbase over self-custody -- "I don't trust myself," he said.

Some (most?) people want their hand held.
 
I've long since given up trying to Orange Pill my friends and family, but I remember explaining the self-sovereignty benefits of Bitcoin, and being surprised that this was perceived not as a benefit (as I viewed it), but as a drawback. It really confused me.

I remember explaining the respective benefits and drawbacks of self-custody vs. using Coinbase to one friend, and he said that if he was ever to get some Bitcoin (he still hasn't) he would definitely go with Coinbase over self-custody -- "I don't trust myself," he said.

Some (most?) people want their hand held.
We've all grown up in the fiat matrix of the nanny state. Most people don't realize they are plugged in. Would hate it if you unplugged them, wouldn't understand whats happening - they have to find the exit themselves or not at all.

The Matrix really is the perfect metaphor for fiat land.
 
The way I see it, Bitcoin today is still a highly volatile investment by definition and not yet a reliable digital currency. If you look at the trends over last 5 years, there has been 3 crashes in value way more significant than your typical, once per decade, stock market crash. When Bitcoin shows a trend in sustained value, without the volatility, only then will it be a true reliable digital currency replacing fiat. When you can stick a $1000 paycheck into Bitcoin and know with confidence you can pay your $1000 rent next week with it, only then is it reliable alternative to fiat currency.
 
The way I see it, Bitcoin today is still a highly volatile investment by definition
Yes. Especially if you use it as an investment. The best use case is savings.
and not yet a reliable digital currency.
I disagree. It is 99.9999% uptime since 2009. It is the most reliable currency, digital or not. It can be used anywhere, in any sanctioned country, across any border. That is impossible with literally anything else.
If you look at the trends over last 5 years, there has been 3 crashes in value way more significant than your typical, once per decade, stock market crash. When Bitcoin shows a trend in sustained value, without the volatility, only then will it be a true reliable digital currency replacing fiat.
It is in the process of replacing fiat. It will first take the monetary premium from depreciating but overvalued assets, either by supporting them or replacing them. MSTR is draining liquidity from the bond market, selling their own, positive real yield bonds, using bitcoin (the bitcoin is not directly backing the bonds, it’s just supporting the corporate balance sheet that supports the bonds). It’s a trickle now, but will be a flood eventually. Direct Bitcoin backed bonds could be a future infiltration into the fiat system, possibly issued by sovereign nations.
When you can stick a $1000 paycheck into Bitcoin and know with confidence you can pay your $1000 rent next week with it, only then is it reliable alternative to fiat currency.
For the middle class and lower, you are correct. If living paycheck to paycheck, unable to save anything, bitcoin doesn’t help much for the average person in a first world economy with decent fiat currency available. For people who are able to save though, the volatility is what makes it life changing, not just in wealth, but in freedom.
 
It shows the weakness of your arguments that you must result to personal slights in the form of "you" statements to get your points across. Strong debaters address the argument not the person making the argument.
I've made countless arguments with supports of my conclusions, ranging from the definition of money, the assessment of investments, the utility of the instrument, and the network and security aspects of the protocol. This kind of response, without context, is typical of your posts. These statements came after you said meaningless things like "anyone can say anything" (which I made fun of, since it should be made fun of, as it is the Big Lebowski, "Well that's just your opinion man) meaning it doesn't actually help anyone or explain anything = retarded statement. The reason why it is retarded is because it shows that you in fact aren't interested in addressing anything that is stated, so you appeal to something that has nothing to do with anything. Yes, anyone can say anything but we have supported all of our positions with facts, theories, real world data, history (what is money?) which means we aren't just saying anything.

Here's the other fact that you and scorpion never address, because you can't. I mentioned it before, and your silence again was an answer. You keep saying BTC isn't what we say it is. The problem?

1. It's worth more in every fiat currency, year over year, and massively during just this dialogue here on the forum.
2. The network is growing.
3. It's the most secure computer network in the world.
4. It has more institutional and governmental adoption than ever before, and the biggest investors in the world now own it.

Sounds like I'm not saying anything, right? Maybe that's because YOU'RE WRONG. All of your points are losers. And proven every day, one after the next, or at least, when you zoom out and honestly look at it. Something you don't do.
 
1. It's worth more in every fiat currency, year over year, and massively during just this dialogue here on the forum.
2. The network is growing.
3. It's the most secure computer network in the world.
4. It has more institutional and governmental adoption than ever before, and the biggest investors in the world now own it.
All of these things can be true (and they currently are) and Bitcoin can still suffer a catastrophic collapse in the future. When you have an asset built on increasingly outdated software whose value is completely dependent on hype and popularity, and which has no relation to the real-world economy, its price has no floor. You are essentially making the argument that, "What is will always be!" and "Past performance is indicative of future results." History is littered with examples of fads like Bitcoin that have come and gone. "But this time is different!" you say. Yeah, maybe. But I doubt it.
 
I've made countless arguments with supports of my conclusions, ranging from the definition of money, the assessment of investments, the utility of the instrument, and the network and security aspects of the protocol.
Yes, and they're all bullshit. Nobody gives a fuck Blade. 8 billion people don't want any of your cultist shitcoins, much less are they interested in your "conclusions."

What I originally kept saying was, "Good for you, you succeeded with bitcoin, but stop trying to persuade others into buying bitcoin because it is not a sure thing." But then you wouldn't let up with your unprovable exaggerations about the importance of bitcoin and how the US dollar/economy is about to fail. First you said the US dollar/economy was going to fail in 2024, then 2025, and now you've moved the goal posts to 2026 (or 2027?). Your speculative doom posting just goes on and on even though you're wrong time and time again. It's all just ego driven "crypto" jew bullshit. But what makes it insufferable and now intolerable is that you are constantly trying to drag other men into your gambling addiction and lust for money and things. So I'm going to have to get a little more forceful with you. It has become obvious that what you truly are is a technocratic materialist who loves to play "gotcha" in an attempt to demoralize other men on this forum. But I'm not going to lay down for your tiny hat jew mind that is steeped in greed and humble bragging about your wealth. Good for you, you got rich like a jew building nothing, we get it, you're rich because you have bitcoin, and we're poor and have nothing because we have no bitcoin. You're smart because you have bitcoin, and everyone else is dumb because they have no bitcoin. Good for you Pavorotti (high C), you're a real winner.

It (bitcoin) has more jew controlled governmental adoption than ever before, and the biggest jews in the world now own it.
Fixed it for you. This is literally the worst sales pitch in human history... "The most corrupt (((people))) on planet earth who run the world's governments and banks and want to eliminate white Christian men via a cashless society surveillance state are now adopting, buying, and using bitcoin because it is cashless and has a traceable, public ledger."

Jews of a feather gotta' jew together.
 
Bitcoin is currently at an all-time high and into and into price discovery

The only coins that I’m holding currently doing great are Tao, sui and link

I’m still hoping we get an all-time high for Ethereum, and some of the Ethereum shit coins start doing well as well as solana

I still hold a number of artificial intelligence coins, including TAO, tai, aitech, Chrp

I’m guessing meme coins and artificial intelligence coins pump first, then we see some of the true alt coins get pumps.

My prediction for a bitcoin is still that it maxes out around 140 K to 180 K then the institutional ETF and taking profits.

As far as Ethereum, that’s anyone’s guess. Probably maxes out anywhere from 5000 to 12,000. Per eth

This is just basically based off of past charts and past cycles


My biggest disappointment so far, are alph, tet and mintlayer . I’m so far down on they aren’t even worth selling, but hopefully they come back
 
Alt season is canceled in my opinion. That scam has been run so many times that there is nothing left in it - especially with the lightning network, none of the alts can claim any legitimate use case, except gambling on extremely short term hype then pump and dumps.

@PurpleUrkel the difference between bitcoin, communication protocols tools like nostr, and the existing digital panopticon is that it is decentralised and controlled by the users, not the government. Just like the gun on your hip - it is a tool that you control. Cryptographic keys allow a property owner to have complete ownership and control of their digital property.

It changes the "logic of violence", the payoff for committing violence: either theft, taxes, or divorce rape, is exponentially lower, having a tool like bitcoin. I highly recommend reading The Sovereign Individual: How to Survive and Thrive the Collapse of the Welfare State.
 
"Past performance is indicative of future results."
Yes it is. This is known and proven. It's also obvious. The fastest horse tends to keep winning. Ever hear of the Lindy Effect? There are countless tropes that you throw out that you haven't thought much about. Again, be precise with your language, not lazy, and you won't fall into bad thinking.
Nobody gives a fuck Blade.
Really. Last I checked people want the best performing asset. Not someone's opinions on the internet that are wrong, over and over again, while the best asset keeps going up.
It has become obvious that what you truly are is a technocratic materialist who loves to play "gotcha" in an attempt to demoralize other men on this forum.
I have a long posting history here, which most know already proves this false. You can even check Mr. Magoo's running my posts/contributions through a language model to see what it says about me. It's curious because it's quite flattering.

I'm pointing out the lifeboat. How is that demoralizing to anyone? Your ego is getting in the way here - just like all the people who didn't do their homework on BTC and took the lazy way out (nonsense accusations and personal attacks, like you here). If they listened, if they did their homework, if they trusted the people who know what they are talking about - they would be newly invigorated. Moralized, if you will.

Purple, don't hate the player. Hate the game.
Alt season is canceled in my opinion. That scam has been run so many times that there is nothing left in it - especially with the lightning network, none of the alts can claim any legitimate use case, except gambling on extremely short term hype then pump and dumps.
Another thing I was right about. Since we have the monetary protocol and technology goes in layers, it was always most likely that all the other projects would be built on BTC as the base layer. And that's what we are seeing. That also portends for a future where because of this recognition, and because of the network expansion and overall acceptance, the volatility will decrease over time. Yet another thing chance and I have predicted, that is coming true. There is a mathematic basis for this, which is why it's so weird for the naysaying posters, who have been wrong for I don't know, YEARS at this point, to keep arguing against this asset.
 
@expectation This is the interesting psychological part of the whole thing - consider all the back and forth done here - but in the context of an asset being discussed that not only outperforms, and continues to outperform, every other one, it has done so during the entire "debate".

A logical person, a view from the outside, from nowhere, might ask himself: "At what point are the guys who are missing out on such a great thing going to say, enough is enough, I've gotta get some of that?" I've seen this in real life, time and again.

Me: "Buy MSTR, it is undervalued and will keep moving given X, Y and Z."
Person A: No, it's made its run, I'll wait for it to dip before I buy.

What happens? MSTR 10x. So much for buying the dip.

Me: "Buy BTC, just hold it long term, don't think about it."
Person B: I missed it, it's gone up too much already.

What happen? BTC 5x.

Lesson? You can't win in life without risk, without being in the game, while paralyzed by fear on the sidelines.
 
@expectation This is the interesting psychological part of the whole thing - consider all the back and forth done here - but in the context of an asset being discussed that not only outperforms, and continues to outperform, every other one, it has done so during the entire "debate".

A logical person, a view from the outside, from nowhere, might ask himself: "At what point are the guys who are missing out on such a great thing going to say, enough is enough, I've gotta get some of that?" I've seen this in real life, time and again.

Me: "Buy MSTR, it is undervalued and will keep moving given X, Y and Z."
Person A: No, it's made its run, I'll wait for it to dip before I buy.

What happens? MSTR 10x. So much for buying the dip.

Me: "Buy BTC, just hold it long term, don't think about it."
Person B: I missed it, it's gone up too much already.

What happen? BTC 5x.

Lesson? You can't win in life without risk, without being in the game, while paralyzed by fear on the sidelines.

Yes. The amount of energy spent into that argument could've been directed into identifying other opportunities if you had missed out the 16k - 25k buying opportunity. There were several posters that shared their own buy thesis when around that time its a shame they were drowned out.

There is also a category of financial influencers who are just bearish on everything catering to an audience that aspires to be geniuses like the guys in the Big Short. Everything goes in a cycle so I'm sure they'll have their day...
 
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I kind of despise people who tout the percentage return of bitcoin all the way from 2009. Dividing by (near) zero is always going to net you a monstrous looking return.

For me the fall 2017 bull run was when it started really popping up in news and in everyday conversations all over the place. So I'd compare it to roughly Sept 2017.

From there, yes, it's had a massive run.
 
I highly recommend reading The Sovereign Individual: How to Survive and Thrive the Collapse of the Welfare State.
I'm already a "sovereign individual." Furthermore, I already have a bucket reading list of great books and I'm not adding an off-topic hypothesis about how to survive something that isn't going to happen (in my lifetime). I've already resolved my financial dilemma in large part by creating a life that requires very little money to survive, thrive, and grow. And so I don't need anymore money from a new source that eats at my time and takes up RAM on the hard drive that is my brain. I actually have hobbies to pursue that are "free," their only requirement is time and me being physically healthy enough to pursue them. For the most part, money is not of much help in these departments, it is time that is most valuable.
Last I checked people want the best performing asset.
It's what you want and what you think you have. Only time will tell. Most people just want a little bit of cash in their pocket, a job that is semi-enjoyable and doesn't kill them or make them sick, health insurance, a car, and a house. Maybe add in a spouse and some kids. But mostly they want time to spend enjoying their house, car, hobbies, family, and friends. Most people are simple and they have simple dreams. For better or for worse, bitcoin and "investing" are not part of these dreams and plans. Personally, I don't really even think in terms of money all that much, I think in terms of time, skill, and achievement. What is it that I want to achieve/build and how do I do that without wasting time and spending/needing a lot of money? I know it's a cliché but it's true, "The best things in life are free," no bitcoin required.
 
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