Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

Gold is also expensive to move across space. Bitcoin is exponentially cheaper to move. Transaction fees are the highest they've ever been, but you can still move $1 Billion in BTC for about $30, in about 10 minutes. That amount of gold would cost hundreds of thousands to move, if not millions, and it would take days or weeks.
This is an often overlooked yet crucial component and advantage of BTC as we enter this era of supposed worry and "crisis". If your jurisdiction becomes untenable, from what you are used to OR what you desire from a freedom or lifestyle point of view, only BTC offers you the ability to go somewhere else with potentially massive value. I think a reason people either miss this or don't mention it, which is disingenuous, is because they don't see themselves moving. That's not a total life assessment, though, and it ignores a HUGE benefit of BTC - conveniently for the people who poo-poo it.
 
Blue Wallet is pretty good, I use it and its easy to connect to your node, does lightning too. Zeus is good for using your own node, especially lightning. Phoenix is another good one for lightning.

Samurai works fine still, just use your own node. This was always a risk that Samurai team acknowledged years ago. Connect your wallet to your own node, not theirs.

"By default, Samourai Wallet will connect to its centrally controlled Dojo hosted in Iceland. By hosting your own Samourai Server, you can bypass its servers completely when using Samourai Wallet or Sentinel, and gain total financial sovereignty without any complexity."

Looks like we are entering "and then they fight you" stage...
Good information, but I still might go with another wallet over Samourai if it is not going to be supported/maintained going forward. Looks like Mycellium offers a downloadable APK for Android sideloading, so I might go with that one just until I can do more research on the best options. For now I just want to see my BTC holdings restored!
 
What's your opinion on ngrave?
Don't know anything, but I wouldn't keep my main stack on a device that does anything but BTC. I'm fine with a few million sats on a phone, or alt coin cold wallet.
Coldcards for the main stack though.

Nothing to lose sleep over for less than a whole coin, though, when buying 4 coldcards is going to be several hundred bucks.
 
Good information, but I still might go with another wallet over Samourai if it is not going to be supported/maintained going forward. Looks like Mycellium offers a downloadable APK for Android sideloading, so I might go with that one just until I can do more research on the best options. For now I just want to see my BTC holdings restored!
Yeah best bet, especially if you are connecting to their node, is to recover to Blue wallet (or take your pick) and, move on.
I will eventually do the same and delete samurai since any updates etc could be compromised. If you are connecting to their node, your privacy could already be...(No problem, just re-mix with join market or something when fees drop)
 
Gold is expensive to transact with because it is expensive to audit. Unless you x-ray it or melt it down, there is no way to be 100% sure that you are getting gold.

Bitcoin is almost free to audit. A $50 raspberry pi and a network connection can audit it instantly. $10 worth or $1 Billion. If you trust someone else's node, you can audit it by connecting to their node with your phone that you already own.

Gold is also expensive to move across space. Bitcoin is exponentially cheaper to move. Transaction fees are the highest they've ever been, but you can still move $1 Billion in BTC for about $30, in about 10 minutes. That amount of gold would cost hundreds of thousands to move, if not millions, and it would take days or weeks.
So slowly Im starting to understand the concept I think, so bitcoin is basically a private way of exchange, a digital way based on a digital currency thats not really owned by a government (that we know of) I still need to figure out how the value of it goes up and down though (although at this point I just want it for transactions) Im assuming the more people they can get to put money into it then it becomes more valueble? I agree with some of the other comments here about it being a gamble for people who just want to use bitcoin to make money from it without actually working? Similar to how a stock market works although I guess it could also be a skill a person could learn and take advantage of but sounds like that would take a lot of time to grasp not sure I would want to do that Im quite happy to just use the tool to transact, but how do we actually cash the bitcoin out without owning a bank account can it be done? I will continue listening to the podcasts and the other videos as I go I think it might be useful for me in this day and age to get some understanding on this, right now Im in no way even qualified to even comment on this thread besides asking questions
 
The way I see physical gold at the moment is that its just good to have as an emergency, but either than that its pretty useless you can buy anything with it nobody will accept it and if they do they will rip you off, the only people who are prepared to trade in Gold are pawn shops and the will give you 10% of what its worth, nobosy will pay you what its reallt worth,anyway Im still learning about crypto and lets see how it goes
If you're in the US, you should be able to get a decent price from a coin shop for your gold. It's been over a decade since I've sold any but last time I did I just walked in, asked for their buy price for silver and gold, forked over my metal, and they handed me the cash. I think their buy price was something like 90% of spot, but I don't remember exactly.

I guess you could try selling to an individual if you wanted 100% of spot but to me it doesn't seem worth the hassle.
 
In SoNH we have a local Bingo Parlor that has a 3rd Sunday Coin Show Each Month:

What I like about these shows is when Gold and Silver etc is in high demand like right now you can walk in and go from Vendor to Vendor and Ask what they will pay you in Cash and get a competitive price because they know you are there "shopping around" for the Best Deals and Best prices on what you might want to Sell Or Buy ...

Hope this helps.


The Nashua Coin Show - 3rd Sunday is a notable event held in Nashua, NH. It takes place at the Eagle’s Wing Function Center on the third Sunday of each month. Here are the key details:
  • Date: Each 3rd Sunday
  • Time: 9:00 am - 2:00 pm
  • Location: Eagle’s Wing Function Center, 10 Spruce St, Nashua, NH 03060
  • Features:
    • Over 50 dealers participate.
    • It is one of the oldest coin shows in New England.
    • Items available include coins, stamps, currency, ephemera, and supplies.
    • Admission is free.
If you’re interested in numismatics or collecting, this show provides an excellent opportunity to explore and acquire rare and interesting pieces. Mark your calendar for the next Nashua Coin Show ...

Also this is my favorite simple international Website that avoids CPU and RAM intensive plugins... a.k.a. a Mobile Friendly simple website, think like Craigslist without all of the criminals and scammers.
https://www.usacoinbook.com/

US Coin Values and Prices - Buy, Sell and Auction Coins Online​

Welcome to USA Coin Book, a numismatic haven for coin collectors. At this website, you will be able to easily buy, sell, request and auction off your coin collections. Members can also just keep track of their collection in our easy-to-use online database. You can even look up the estimated US coin values and prices by browsing the side menu of links on the left side of this page to see how much your coins are worth! Now use your mobile device, such as iPhone, Android, tablet or any other device to use our "mobile-friendly" site and quickly look up coin values with no Mobile App necessary.

Alternative to ebay coin auctions​

One great disadvantage of online ebay coin auctions is the tremendous listing fees and final value fees. At USA Coin Book, there are absolutely no listing fees and a very low 2% final value fee. That means it is totally free to list all of your coins up for sale or put them on auctions for as long as you like. We get paid only when you do.

Putting coins up for sale online - Shop at dealer stores​

USA Coin Book is a great place for dealers to put their inventory up for sale online in front of a large targeted audience of collectors. Even items such as supplies and books can be bought here. Not only can dealers do this but anyone can! We also tried to make it as easy, organized and simple as possible to put coins up for sale.

Buying coins and putting a bounty on the "wishlist"​

Members can also use a feature to put coins in a wishlist, which is a sort of "wanted" ad where they can request a specific coin: old, rare, new or modern. In doing this, they can also offer a "bounty" of sorts. Members and dealers can search through this wishlist and if they have the coin, they can negotiate and submit the best deal and price. The buyer can then immediately purchase the coin through PayPal.
 
So slowly Im starting to understand the concept I think, so bitcoin is basically a private way of exchange, a digital way based on a digital currency thats not really owned by a government (that we know of) I still need to figure out how the value of it goes up and down though (although at this point I just want it for transactions) Im assuming the more people they can get to put money into it then it becomes more valueble?
Yes, it is owned by governments. The USA is one of the largest holders, but other governments own it too. No one controls it. Owning it gives you no control except the coins that you own…you can opt in to the network, but you exert only that level of control. The same level of control that a gold coin collector has on the gold network…

Bitcoin increases in value due to adoption. Think of it like a battery with unlimited capacity. If you use your Rand to buy BTC, you are taking monetary energy out of the Rand, and putting it into BTC. The Rand loses value, and BTC gains value.
I agree with some of the other comments here about it being a gamble for people who just want to use bitcoin to make money from it without actually working?
Right now the best use case is as savings. Bitcoin preserves your wealth better than any other asset. Don’t try to trade it. There is no reason to sell, unless you are buying a business or other asset that outperforms Bitcoin (+60% annual ROI is a steep hurdle)
Similar to how a stock market works although I guess it could also be a skill a person could learn and take advantage of but sounds like that would take a lot of time to grasp not sure I would want to do that Im quite happy to just use the tool to transact, but how do we actually cash the bitcoin out without owning a bank account can it be done?
Would you like to cash out your Rand for some Zimbabwe dollars? How about some Argentine pesos? Exchanging Bitcoin for some garbage fiat toilet paper makes sense if 100% of your income is BTC and you need to pay the bills in fiat…most people are not in that situation, so there is no reason to escape the fiat ponzi, only to buy back into it!!!

But to answer your question, Bisq is probably the best way to exchange BTC for fiat by mail or in person, without banks. Not sure if localbitcoins is still around but that is another way to do it in person. Obviously there are security issues with these methods.
I will continue listening to the podcasts and the other videos as I go I think it might be useful for me in this day and age to get some understanding on this, right now Im in no way even qualified to even comment on this thread besides asking questions
I will post some more podcasts, finish the Saylor Series, and I highly recommend reading The Bitcoin Standard, and The Fiat Standard.
 
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GMCtjnvacAAxczI
 
Implicit in your response is a risk assessment that is poor. In gambling terms, no pun intended, the expected value of your proposition is awful. That is, you are assigning high probabilities to unlikely events...
I didn't give any indication of my prediction for the "probabilities" (high or low) of anything catostrophic happening to the electric grid (and hence the internet). But since you're implying that I did, let me give one... I would guess that within the next 10 years there is a 10%+ chance that an "event" will happen that will make Covid and 911 look like child's play. This may or may not involve the electric grid and the internet. If it does involve damaging the internet or limiting access to it, one's Bitcoin may be inaccessible when needed most or outright "disappear" (as temporarily happened to a member in this thread just the other day).

... and to scenarios which drastically erode life, freedom, and future prosperity. That's where you argument fails, and it fails big time.
I don't really have an "argument." Bitcoin is gambling. Fact. Buying 3D, real world tools like shelter and transportation and the ability to produce your own food and electricity is something you take physical possession of and have control over. Bitcoin is not.

What is missing here is that some would have you believe that technology is a lie. That we don't have atomic bombs, only TNT. What I'm stating as a personally known fact is that the exact opposite is true. There is technology out there that most people can only dream of. And if you think that They can't find you because of some silly VPN or that They can't seize your Bitcoin or completely erase your encrypted BTC "wallet" at the stroke of a key then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.
 
Yes, it is owned by governments. The USA is one of the largest holders, but other governments own it too. No one controls it. Owning it gives you no control except the coins that you own…you can opt in to the network, but you exert only that level of control. The same level of control that a gold coin collector has on the gold network…

Bitcoin increases in value due to adoption. Think of it like a battery with unlimited capacity. If you use your Rand to buy BTC, you are taking monetary energy out of the Rand, and putting it into BTC. The Rand loses value, and BTC gains value.

Right now the best use case is as savings. Bitcoin preserves your wealth better than any other asset. Don’t try to trade it. There is no reason to sell, unless you are buying a business or other asset that outperforms Bitcoin (+60% annual ROI is a steep hurdle)

Would you like to cash out your Rand for some Zimbabwe dollars? How about some Argentine pesos? Exchanging Bitcoin for some garbage fiat toilet paper makes sense if 100% of your income is BTC and you need to pay the bills in fiat…most people are not in that situation, so there is no reason to escape the fiat ponzi, only to buy back into it!!!

But to answer your question, Bisq is probably the best way to exchange BTC for fiat by mail or in person, without banks. Not sure if localbitcoins is still around but that is another way to do it in person. Obviously there are security issues with these methods.

I will post some more podcasts, finish the Saylor Series, and I highly recommend reading The Bitcoin Standard, and The Fiat Standard.
So to find out who owns bitcoin I guess you would just need to find out where the transaction fees go , you mentioned that there are some small exchange fees, who collects that fee? it must be going somewhere? The banking fees go to a bank where do the crypro currency fees go to?
 
Yes, it is owned by governments. The USA is one of the largest holders, but other governments own it too. No one controls it. Owning it gives you no control except the coins that you own…you can opt in to the network, but you exert only that level of control. The same level of control that a gold coin collector has on the gold network…

Bitcoin increases in value due to adoption. Think of it like a battery with unlimited capacity. If you use your Rand to buy BTC, you are taking monetary energy out of the Rand, and putting it into BTC. The Rand loses value, and BTC gains value.

Right now the best use case is as savings. Bitcoin preserves your wealth better than any other asset. Don’t try to trade it. There is no reason to sell, unless you are buying a business or other asset that outperforms Bitcoin (+60% annual ROI is a steep hurdle)

Would you like to cash out your Rand for some Zimbabwe dollars? How about some Argentine pesos? Exchanging Bitcoin for some garbage fiat toilet paper makes sense if 100% of your income is BTC and you need to pay the bills in fiat…most people are not in that situation, so there is no reason to escape the fiat ponzi, only to buy back into it!!!

But to answer your question, Bisq is probably the best way to exchange BTC for fiat by mail or in person, without banks. Not sure if localbitcoins is still around but that is another way to do it in person. Obviously there are security issues with these methods.

I will post some more podcasts, finish the Saylor Series, and I highly recommend reading The Bitcoin Standard, and The Fiat Standard.
When I lived in Brazil I met 1-2 guess there from the UK who moved to brazil because their state pension wasnt worth much in the UK it was just enough for them to survive but when they exchanged it into the Brazilian currency they could do a lot more with the british pound in Brazil, the one guy had a big double story house on the beach front and he never cooked he ate out every day, but in the UK he would have to be a multi millionaire to do the same thing, so this is why I want to take advantage of the weak currency in my country and try and earn some income from countries that have a higher currency value and then yes exchange it into South Africas fiat currency, not to save but to spend here and pay bills with it and exchange it into assets here in South Africa, lets see how it goes, I would prefer not to attrack attention by receiving foreign money into my South African bank account, I want privacy
 
So to find out who owns bitcoin I guess you would just need to find out where the transaction fees go , you mentioned that there are some small exchange fees, who collects that fee? it must be going somewhere? The banking fees go to a bank where do the crypro currency fees go to?
Bitcoin transaction fees are paid to "miners."

Mining is basically is running cryptographic formulas trillions of times per second, in hopes that they’ll be the first to produce a value that falls within a narrow mathematical range. The more calculations you can do, the more chances that you will be the first to find the solution and have the right to mine the "block", process the waiting transactions, collect the transaction fee for those transactions, and also the block "subisdy".

The block subsidy was created to ensure security for the network, before the network got big enough to pay for security with transaction fees alone. Securing the timechain (making it impossible for anyone who hasn't done the proof of work to change) costs money...that is the only thing that can provide security. Gold mining is expensive in terms of energy required (men, equipment, ore processing, etc.) If gold mining were extremely cheap, we would mine gold so fast that it would be a bad money. It would inflate as fast as Zimbabwe fiat currency if people could dig with shovels in their backyards for as much gold as they wanted.

If the monetary value of Bitcoin were $0, there would also be no security. There would be no incentive to protect the integrity of the timechain data with millions of expensive computers that can only do one thing, mine bitcoin.

The subsidy is paid with new Bitcoin that haven't come into existence yet. In the next 100 years, there are about 1 million new Bitcoin that will be paid to miners, and after about 2140, miners will only receive transaction fees to secure the network, and no new Bitcoin will be mined.

Every 4 years the subsidy is reduced by half. Last week it was reduced from 6.25 BTC to 3.125 BTC to mine 1 block (~10 min). 4 years ago the subsidy was 12.5 BTC per block.

However...that BTC is also more valuable. So in the short term, miners are receiving less money to secure the network (those with high electric costs are forced to shut down). But historically, the price of bitcoin more than offsets this. For example, 8 years ago mining 1 block would produce ~$10k in subsidy and fees (for 12.5 BTC). 4 years ago it was ~$150k per block. Last week, before the halving, it was ~$500k per block. After the halving it dropped in half, to ~$200k per block, but historically, when the price of bitcoin goes up again, the mining rewards will exceed $1M per block less than 12 months from now.

Why is all this important:
Security has to cost something, or it isn't security. Bitcoin inflation (for the next century) and transaction fees pay for that security. What does it pay for? The largest, most powerful computer network in the world. Which means no person/company/nation can overcome the sheer amount of computational power and electricity required to control it. Imagine if the USA wanted to hold the world hostage by building huge water pumps to drain all the water out of the oceans....its practically impossible, and self defeating anyway.
 
When I lived in Brazil I met 1-2 guess there from the UK who moved to brazil because their state pension wasnt worth much in the UK it was just enough for them to survive but when they exchanged it into the Brazilian currency they could do a lot more with the british pound in Brazil, the one guy had a big double story house on the beach front and he never cooked he ate out every day, but in the UK he would have to be a multi millionaire to do the same thing, so this is why I want to take advantage of the weak currency in my country and try and earn some income from countries that have a higher currency value and then yes exchange it into South Africas fiat currency, not to save but to spend here and pay bills with it and exchange it into assets here in South Africa, lets see how it goes, I would prefer not to attrack attention by receiving foreign money into my South African bank account, I want privacy
I am certain that there are people in SA that want BTC, and will trade Rand for it. Localbitcoins has been shut down, however, so finding them is going to be a little tough. The Orange Pill App was created to connect local bitcoiners, try that out and see if there are any near you.

Otherwise, changing BTC into fiat is easy on exchanges...connecting those exchanges to your bank account is the hard part. It is much easier to find people willing to accept bitcoin for things you want...but if you need to pay the electric bill, of course you need fiat.

Unfortunately, that is what capital controls do. People living in countries with high inflation are prevented from escaping by doing what you are trying to do. I wouldn't buy any assets in SA though, unless you are black, and even then, the risk of losing them is probably high. In most cases, the only asset worth owning is Bitcoin. Until government shrinks by a lot, and regulatory moats, and taxes are gone, its more profitable to just own bitcoin than run a business.
 
Bitcoin is gambling. Fact.
It is not. It is a store of value that is governed by a power law that is remarkably accurate and it will grow as the network grows, and will stabilize ... but only after the average person "figures it out" which is how all innovation/disruption/investment goes. It is also the greatest money ever discovered, which is why it will provide increasing returns until it shows relatively diminishing returns that are beyond what will be considered "great returns" like its past. As it replaces all the money that is inferior to it, this happens as a matter of nature and a matter of "fact", as you say. Things can disrupt it temporarily, that is true, but in the long run the cat is out of the bag, and it is a foregone conclusion.
Buying 3D, real world tools like shelter and transportation and the ability to produce your own food and electricity is something you take physical possession of and have control over. Bitcoin is not.
I have no problem with people that want tangible things, and why would I? I also own them and would need them to trade in the temporary world that I cite. The issue is that life will relatively suck in that period, and that is a lower probability scenario, so the expected value of not having BTC is quite low, since its upside and use in the future is astronomical in terms of creating a better life (freedom/material/optionality).
What is missing here is that some would have you believe that technology is a lie. That we don't have atomic bombs, only TNT. What I'm stating as a personally known fact is that the exact opposite is true. There is technology out there that most people can only dream of. And if you think that They can't find you because of some silly VPN or that They can't seize your Bitcoin or completely erase your encrypted BTC "wallet" at the stroke of a key then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.
I don't have any of those objections and agree with you. You get too close to the god state complex here though, which is a common fallacy of fear. The government is happy they've scared people into willingly paying taxes even, but that can turn on a dime and they can do nothing about it in a similar way. The government is an inept in general, and as they lose control of the printer that just accelerates.
 
And if you think that They can't find you because of some silly VPN or that They can't seize your Bitcoin or completely erase your encrypted BTC "wallet" at the stroke of a key then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.
Wallet is kind of a misnomer. What people refer to as a Bitcoin "wallet" doesn't actually have any Bitcoin "in" it like a traditional billfold does. It is more accurate to call it a "signing device". It holds the only bit of data that can move Bitcoin from one address to another. If you were to delete the wallet, nothing happens to the Bitcoin, it is still held in the same address as it was before you deleted it. The only thing that happens is, that wallet can no longer sign the transaction to move that Bitcoin to another address.

Deleting the data on the timechain is also, for all practical purposes, impossible. It is distributed among hundreds of thousands of nodes around the world. Imagine trying to delete the Bible. You can't, because it is distributed.

You can memorize the signing data in the form of 12 words. You can teach those 12 words to your children, your spouse, or best friend, in the event something happens to you. A physical "wallet" (signing device) is convenient, but not necessary to use Bitcoin. All you need is the private key, which is convenient enough to store in your brain.
 
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