Job 19:25-27 refutes this pretty clearly.
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Job 8 & 9
Bildad replies to Job. What's interesting is that Job actually affirms what Bilhad has to say.
Bildad replies to Job. What's interesting is that Job actually affirms what Bilhad has to say.
A few doctrinal items here. God stretching out the heavens is also used in Isaiah. Trampling the waves of the sea = God walking on water. The star constellations also correspond to angels.
This language of passing by also shows up elsewhere. In Exodus, God passes by Moses in the cleft of the rock. In Mark 6, Jesus intended to pass by the disciples when He was walking on the sea.
Job feels that he cannot win with God. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
One of the more significant passages here. Job feels the need of an adjudicator, a mediator. Someone to come between him and God, put his hands on them both, and make them at one. In short, Job feels the need of Christ to atone for him. And without Christ as your Mediator, there is nothing left for you with God but fear and punishment.
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Job 10 & 11
Job continues his lamentation towards God.
Hebrews 12:7: Endure suffering as discipline: God is dealing with you as sons. For what son is there that a father does not discipline?
Job continues his lamentation towards God.
Job sees that in God's recognition, he is innocent, yet he still suffers. The same is true for us who are justified in Christ Jesus. Innocent, but still suffering. Why is this? It's important to remember that the suffering of the saints is not punitive. It's not like suffering God's curses as a heathen. That kind of suffering is meant to break you down and leave you there. In Christ, God is not punishing you to even the score, for that Christ already died in your place. But the suffering of the saints is sanctifying, it is meant to build up. It is like a father chastising a son whom he loves, not like the state giving a criminal the death penalty. These two kinds of suffering can look the same to eyes that can't discern, but there is a world of difference between them. One lifting up to heaven, the other burning down to hell.
Job's third friend, Zophar, replies to him. His theology here is very similar to the Psalmist's in Psalm 139:
There is no escaping God. His omnipresence transcends us. We can't run from Him and we can't hide from Him, but that doesn't stop many people from vainly trying.
Hebrews 12:7: Endure suffering as discipline: God is dealing with you as sons. For what son is there that a father does not discipline?
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Job 12
Job 13
This is one of my favorite and more underrated themes in the Scriptures: that the godly man is a clown. Remember that they mocked and laughed at Christ on the cross. Do not be afraid to be a clown for Christ's sake. The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men.
Not only are the righteous punished but the wicked are rewarded, and this too by God's ordaining. God has a purpose in this as well. To the first, a purpose to forgive and restore. To the second, a purpose to bring about justice and destroy.
It's hard not to think about America when you read something like this. God is opposed to all nations and to all the world. The only nation He is for is His nation, His Church. If you are on God's bad side, He will set you up just to knock you down. Better to be on His good side where He will knock you down just to set you up.
Job 13
Job is getting fed up with his friends' counsel. What he warns about does eventually come to pass when God reproves Job's friends.
Job will continue to suffer and trust in God. He knows that he will be declared righteous, justified. He will indeed have that "legal status" as some slander it. Have the same hope for yourselves if you trust in Christ.
Yes you are spot on with your point regarding verse 23. I have “USA?” penciled in beside that verse in my bible. Sad but true.
Job 14
Job continues his reflections from chapter 13.
I have to laugh at these billionaires who buy these underground bunkers. They spend millions of dollars when they could've just read Christ's words for free to know that it's futile. You will go when God says it's time for you to go. You will stay if God says it's time for you to stay.
Job 15
The only way to be truly innocent in this life is through imputed righteousness from Jesus Christ. If you are not covered by God, then you are not innocent.
Job continues his reflections from chapter 13.
Man's days are determined, limited by God. There was a new Final Destination that just came out. The fundamental theme of that franchise is frightening to the average viewer: your fate is not in your hands. And yet this is exactly what the Bible teaches, over and over again. Here in Job. Again, by Christ when He asked: who can add a single hour to his life by worrying? But the recognition that you are not in control of your life, how long you will live, etc, should not drive you to fear and despair. Profane men do not like to hear that their life is in God's hands because they see Him as the villain. This is why they are afraid of not being in control. But you who trust in Christ know that God is good, and the more you know He is good, the more comfort your soul will have when you believe that your life is in His hands.
I have to laugh at these billionaires who buy these underground bunkers. They spend millions of dollars when they could've just read Christ's words for free to know that it's futile. You will go when God says it's time for you to go. You will stay if God says it's time for you to stay.
It's amazing that Job uses resurrection language when he is using justification language. These two concepts are bundled together in the Biblical worldview. Almost anytime you see the language of covering, especially covering iniquity, know that is justification language.
Job 15
Eliphaz replies again to Job. He is more direct this time in that he does not believe Job is an innocent man.
Is Eliphaz wrong? Doesn't the Bible also say that there is none righteous, not even one? Eliphaz is not wrong in a sense, but he is wrong in this sense, to keep suggesting that Job is paying for his sins. Once more, Job's suffering is not punitive. His suffering is not meant to satisfy a legal demand for breaking the Law. Job is already covered by God and justified in His sight. So his suffering should not suggest that Job is somehow not justified by God.
The only way to be truly innocent in this life is through imputed righteousness from Jesus Christ. If you are not covered by God, then you are not innocent.
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Job 16 & 17
Job pushes back against his friends. They are not comforters so much as accusers. Men should not look for justification in the eyes of men, but this is all they do. The more evil they are, the more they do it. Instead, fear God and seek justification in His sight. Job comes to this realization when he appeals to his heavenly witness. If God is your defense lawyer, who else do you need? As the hymn goes, there's not a friend like the lowly Jesus, not one.
Job 18 & 19
Bildad also doubles down on his accusation of Job. When people come into hard times they like to be soothed over by others, but the godly man is denied even that.
Bildad also doubles down on his accusation of Job. When people come into hard times they like to be soothed over by others, but the godly man is denied even that.
Here, Job expresses hope in the resurrection. He knows that he will be raised from the dead to see his Redeemer. Because the Jews have rejected their own Messiah in favor of antichrist, their minds have been darkened so that they cannot understand the Scriptures. Resurrection hope runs throughout the entire Bible. It is here in Job and we saw it in Genesis.
Job 20 & 21
Job and Zophar have another back and forth.
Job here raises a question of theodicy but he doesn't get caught up in it. He sees that wicked men prosper. If God is good then why do bad things happen? All profane and secular people have fallen for this bit of devilish craftiness. Rather than recognize the evil in themselves and seek Christ to change them, the hypocrites prefer put the blame on God, not seeing that they are just like the wicked people they hate. But Job knows that God will settle all accounts in the end, according to His own standard of goodness, not man's. To the hypocrites, it should be asked: if God is evil, why do good things happen?
Job and Zophar have another back and forth.
The Scripture uses these ideas of God's rod and staff, like those of a shepherd. The rod is used as an offensive weapon to attack predators. The staff had a crook at the end designed to wrap around the sheep's neck to pull them back into the fold. There is no greater symbol for the perseverance of the saints than the shepherd's staff.
Job here raises a question of theodicy but he doesn't get caught up in it. He sees that wicked men prosper. If God is good then why do bad things happen? All profane and secular people have fallen for this bit of devilish craftiness. Rather than recognize the evil in themselves and seek Christ to change them, the hypocrites prefer put the blame on God, not seeing that they are just like the wicked people they hate. But Job knows that God will settle all accounts in the end, according to His own standard of goodness, not man's. To the hypocrites, it should be asked: if God is evil, why do good things happen?
Far from a Christian innovation, Job anticipates the final judgement.
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I must say that at times I do get a little lost trying to read the book of Job. I’ve heard it said that the book is kind of poetic and perhaps that’s why I struggle to follow some of the back and forth conversations. I’m currently also reading the book of Romans which I find much easier to read. Either way I enjoy both books especially knowing what happens at the end of the book of Job.
Romans and a lot of the Paulilne letters are written more like an essay and are more straight forward in it the points in wants to make. Job has more of that dramatic flair and the narrative also depends on you being able to relate to the emotions of the characters whether it be Job despairing or his friends trying to lecture him. It's like reading a theological treatise vs a play - both are literary works written to make a point but depending on you prefer to absorb ideas you'll have different reactions to them.
The reason that Reformed and Protestant Christians tend to spend more time in Paul's letters is because they are written in a didactic style. They very clearly tell you what to believe and what not to believe. I can't help but think that the reason non-Protestants say the Bible isn't clear is because they don't spend enough time in Paul's letters.
But poetry is God-breathed as well. I still find the poetical sections to be consistent with the didactic sections. But poetry does leave more room for people to misinterpret and read things into the text that aren't there. It's a shame how often Jesus' parables get butchered like this. Job in particular is more difficult poetry because it is one of the oldest portions of Scripture, and thus more archaic. I normally don't advocate for the NIV, but it can be helpful in sections like this. It's not Job's narrative that's hard to follow. It's the poetical dialogue.
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Absolutely. While reading Romans yesterday I thought to myself, Paul actually spoke to God on the road to Damascas. It blew my mind. All he ever wanted to do was to tell the world about Jesus and fulfil his mission in getting to Rome to do so. I struggle to stay focused while I pray and I hope for those special moments that I have occasionally where I feel really close to the Lord in prayer, but it does happen sometimes. Then I can’t wait to talk about it with someone. But Paul, SPOKE WITH JESUS! Was it any wonder he wrote so many times that he longed to see his brethren and impart his knowledge.
Shaquilleoatmeal
Protestant
In the book of Job, did Satan’s thoughts come out of nowhere?
Or did God plan them in advance?
Or did God plan them in advance?
Job 22 & 23
Eliphaz keeps digging in on Job.
Eliphaz keeps digging in on Job.
This courtroom legal language is used throughout all of Scripture when referring to our standing before God. The Bible shouldn't be limited to that, but it shouldn't be ignored either.
Job can see the light at the end of the tunnel. His trust in God is such that even though God is granting him this time of testing, he is trusting that the Lord is using it to refine him. As Paul says, suffering produces perseverance, and perseverance produces character.
God is sovereign and accomplishes what he decrees. Job did not choose this test, yet it was God's will to sanctify Job through it. This is not unfair on God's part since we are not our own, but belong to Him. So trust in Him, do not rebel. God is good and His plans work for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.