Finding a traditional wife abroad

[On RVF there are still] quite a few legacy threads about, how shall we call it, economic exploitation of impoverished non-western women for the particular purpose of getting easy girlfriends/wives, or ranking women of various kinds by ethnicity to deeply discuss which ones were easier to take advantage of, were closed and heavily moderated after RVF became a Christian forum. I would like to throw in my two cents to discourage such discussions and to at least talk as if your own priest were listening.

Nagareboshi said:

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Also, quite a few legacy threads about, how shall we call it, economic exploitation of impoverished non-western women for the particular purpose of getting easy girlfriends/wives, or ranking women of various kinds by ethnicity to deeply discuss which ones were easier to take advantage of, were closed and heavily moderated after RVF became a Christian forum. I would like to throw in my two cents to discourage such discussions and to at least talk as if your own priest were listening.

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That is an interesting way to frame it. In my experience I've seen men who seek out non-feminist, God-fearing, family-oriented, kind and humble women which tend to be rarer than diamonds in the West, and so wish to relocate to somewhere where they don't have to go through tons of different women to find someone who is like that.

Similarly it's an obvious fact that if you're the sole breadwinner (like how families used to be) or at least your income is an order of magnitude higher than your woman's capability to earn then it's easier for her to accept her place as the homemaker. There's no "exploitation", you're simply providing the economic stability that is required for her to entrust you with her life and that of her future children.

Nagareboshi said:

I personally thought that the amount of racial discourse which was permitted in RVF 2023 was perfect. I agree with @Samseau about non-hatred of individuals but permitting ourselves to make prudent comments about macro level phenomena in accordance with Christian ethics.

Also, quite a few legacy threads about, how shall we call it, economic exploitation of impoverished non-western women for the particular purpose of getting easy girlfriends/wives, or ranking women of various kinds by ethnicity to deeply discuss which ones were easier to take advantage of, were closed and heavily moderated after RVF became a Christian forum. I would like to throw in my two cents to discourage such discussions and to at least talk as if your own priest were listening.

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Right part of the reason guys go to South America or Eastern Europe or Southeast Asia, yes the women are pretty but the reason they will have sex with you easier is because they want out of their economic hellhole and some guys were advocating to dangle that, I highly doubt the threads are still up, and probably have no place on a religious forum except I will say if you dislike American women becoming an expat may be for you .

eradicator said:

Right part of the reason guys go to South America or Eastern Europe or Southeast Asia, yes the women are pretty but the reason they will have sex with you easier is because they want out of their economic hellhole and some guys were advocating to dangle that, I highly doubt the threads are still up, and probably have no place on a religious forum except I will say if you dislike American women becoming an expat may be for you .

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I think even that is on the wane. University and its attachments are one of the biggest transformational nodes in society. Secular liberal cathedrals that have rapidly become nihilist leftist cathedrals.

The secular woman wants men for something she doesn't have or can't have. The university culture makes her think she can have all of those things. While likely finding out she can't. This is increasingly the case in places where men might have gone to find better wives.

But bigger than this is attention. If a woman's attention is chopped back pretty close to what she can marry, then the attention means something. I had a Turkish gf (in Turkey) from a middling conservative family. She wasn't allowed a boyfriend. With such families girls just end up getting married and at the wedding there will be a wall of photos of the couple. The father is left wondering where they all came from. I think this is the biggest aspect of the decline of women. They've never had more attention and junk attention at that.

Being a Christ-centered forum, can I suggest we change the title to something more like "Seeking a Godly Wife Abroad" or "Courting Abroad"?

I think we should have threads discussing moving abroad for a traditional wife, but of course nothing promoting the exploitation of women. Many members like myself are weighing the possibility of moving overseas, though we know there is no utopia out there.

I stumbled on this today on the JooTube. Even in Russia, women seem to have very worldly and materialistic values today. Nonetheless, their overall demeanor is still more pleasant and feminine than Western women.

analyst_green said:

I think we should have threads discussing moving abroad for a traditional wife, but of course nothing promoting the exploitation of women. Many members like myself are weighing the possibility of moving overseas, though we know there is no utopia out there.

I stumbled on this today on the JooTube. Even in Russia, women seem to have very worldly and materialistic values today. Nonetheless, their overall demeanor is still more pleasant and feminine than Western women.

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Although countries like Russia probably have more better women, there is a very large cultural gap. In particular in terms of relationships between men and women. Add to that the language gap. While in the West women don't need (most) men, in Russia they do. As life as a single mother can be more difficult. So the impetus of many young Russian women is to get a degree, with the clear intention of being able to support themselves if thy get divorced. There is a considerable distrust from women to men. I've heard a number of very unealthy things relating to marriage; including a woman who kept the recipt for her wedding ring. So if she divorced, she could have some money. Many Russian marriages are based on the potential of divorce. I think Ukraine is even worse and women there can be even more cunning in resource extraction. One member who was married (now divorced) to a Ukranian told me one of his female friends there told him "we cannot love without material things". Although this is not true for all, it's something you will find more often that in the West.

If I was a young man in the West, I would start with traditional churches in your area.

There is also a strong culture of rootlessness in Russia and Ukraine.

Belarus has a better mentality, as do all the -stan countries where Europeans live. Add to that at least some of the more Asian areas of Russia like Buryatia.

Cynllo said:

Although countries like Russia probably have more better women, there is a very large cultural gap. In particular in terms of relationships between men and women. Add to that the language gap. While in the West women don't need (most) men, in Russia they do. As life as a single mother can be more difficult. So the impetus of many young Russian women is to get a degree, with the clear intention of being able to support themselves if thy get divorced. There is a considerable distrust from women to men. I've heard a number of very unealthy things relating to marriage; including a woman who kept the recipt for her wedding ring. So if she divorced, she could have some money. Many Russian marriages are based on the potential of divorce. I think Ukraine is even worse and women there can be even more cunning in resource extraction. One member who was married (now divorced) to a Ukranian told me one of his female friends there told him "we cannot love without material things". Although this is not true for all, it's something you will find more often that in the West.

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I've lived abroad before. The culture and language gaps in Russia are not insurmountable, especially as a Bulgarian myself, but I wouldn't move anywhere solely to find a wife. Russia seems like a good option overall because it's the only white nation with a government that supports Christian values. Honestly the biggest drawbacks seem to be the harsh climate, the depressing look of many Eastern bloc cities, and the practical problems caused by Western sanctions.

Making sure we marry the right woman is something we need to focus on to the max. No doubt many Russian women have the mentality you describe, and the feminist agenda hasn't spared any part of the globe entirely. Father Kosmas, in his podcast, tells us that you must only look for women with virtue above all. Does she pray, does she treat others with respect, does she put her faith in God, or does she focus only on the material? Finding someone with virtue is going to cut the risk of divorce as much as possible.

Cynllo said:

If I was a young man in the West, I would start with traditional churches in your area.

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Yes, this should be everyone's first priority, then Bulgaria, Russia or elsewhere as a backup plan.

Cynllo said:

There is also a strong culture of rootlessness in Russia and Ukraine.

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What do you mean by this? Modern America feels like the definition of rootlessness these days.

analyst_green said:

What do you mean by this? Modern America feels like the definition of rootlessness these days.

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Have a look at Russian-Ukrainain pop and rap music, which is controlled and sometimes performed overwhelmingly by small percentage of non-Russians. There is a deep vein of materialism that runs through the modern culture that has been promoted there since the end of the Soviet empire. When I have been in Russia I have been a bit taken out how disconnected young people are from anything from the past. There is a particular type of soullessness there. I don't have great words to describe this.

But many young Russians have been completely cut off from the past, raising in depressing rows of decaying commie bloc, pumped full of dance, trance, pop and rap. Whereas when I deal with Anglo-leftists or hipster types there wasn't that brutal decapitation from the past launched by a hostile outside group. In the UK I am familiar how modern leftists are direct descendants of continual Protestant distortions. It's still something familiar and connected to the past. The left in the the UK is little more than an offshoot of Protestant guilt and self-loathing.

I don't know so much about American leftism and it's origins.

Cynllo said:

I don't know so much about American leftism and it's origins.

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Essays could be written on this. But ultimately it's the same thing that happened in Russia:

Valentine said:

That is an interesting way to frame it. In my experience I've seen men who seek out non-feminist, God-fearing, family-oriented, kind and humble women which tend to be rarer than diamonds in the West, and so wish to relocate to somewhere where they don't have to go through tons of different women to find someone who is like that.

Similarly it's an obvious fact that if you're the sole breadwinner (like how families used to be) or at least your income is an order of magnitude higher than your woman's capability to earn then it's easier for her to accept her place as the homemaker. There's no "exploitation", you're simply providing the economic stability that is required for her to entrust you with her life and that of her future children.

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Hello, I think that we are talking about two different things. Putting God first, using religious principles, and moving to a more traditional location to settle down can be very blessed. I have several Christian friends who have done that (usually domestic moves within the USA), and I love them and give them my full support. But I was specifically talking about expats who bring their modernist baggage into a non-Western traditional land with a secular, and yes, exploitative attitude. It's like Christian humility vs. secular self-advantage.

For example, if you meet a new girl, and you like her because she is "traditional," and yet she wants to use you as an "escape ticket" from her native homeland ... I'm sorry, but that sounds to me like it could be a great burden to bear during the marriage. I hate to be negative, and I don't presume to judge people individually, but I am impelled to do so in order to illustrate what I meant in my original post. I'm not saying anyone is guilty of that currently in this forum; but it occasionally popped up in RVF and the threads were locked down, moderators called in, etc.

For a positive example, I think that Fr. Joseph's blog about Moving to Russia is quite based and handles the balance well. He treats Russian people with respect and dignity, struggles greatly to learn the local language, and he wishes to carefully learn what is good about them while still being mindful of his own American roots. https://movingtorussia.substack.com/

It would have been incredibly difficult to find someone like my girlfriend if I was still living in the Anglosphere. It's not economic exploitation, although I do earn significantly more than her, it's just that 'being nice' isn't seen as a flaw in the Central European country I'm in. There's more masculine-feminine polarity, so deep relationships are easier to form.

Although 'you go girl' careerism is pretty prominent, it's not got the mean spirited, anti-natalist vibes prominent in the hyper neoliberal countries.

Teedub said:

It would have been incredibly difficult to find someone like my girlfriend if I was still living in the Anglosphere. It's not economic exploitation, although I do earn significantly more than her, it's just that 'being nice' isn't seen as a flaw in the Central European country I'm in. There's more masculine-feminine polarity, so deep relationships are easier to form.

Although 'you go girl' careerism is pretty prominent, it's not got the mean spirited, anti-natalist vibes prominent in the hyper neoliberal countries.

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This reminds me of what I've heard people see in a country like Poland where you can tell the trajectory is similar, but it's currently more like the 1970s USA. I can see that as being the case in many places until a type of reset happens that disrupts the global standard of living even as is.

Cross post of mine from RVF in case a single mum in another country is being considered by an older guy for a relationship.

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I have seen a few real-life occasions of men marrying single mums and it working out in the long run (i.e., men getting their own kids, being together for many years etc) in cases where the woman married and had a child when she was young. So I have to acknowledge that it is possible, and it does offer men perceived benefits e.g., a woman looking for reliability, who has some level of present day responsibility, etc.

However those are the few exceptions, and for very, very good reasons.

For example, if you are entertaining marriage with a single mum, consider the following:

• she is unlikely to be a Christian in heart and action
• you know it isn't her first rodeo so forget the white veil
• second marriages don't have good odds
• she has shown poor mate selection and lack of impulse control
• you are cuck-ing yourself by helping another man's lineage at the expense of your own potential
• you will have huge responsibility but little if any agency and authority
• you will never be her priority
• you may have to deal with the father
• dating a younger woman by using money and resources as the foundation of 'trade' is likely to end poorly
• in time her external beauty will fade as will your lust, which leaves what remaining?

Thus, I would say - keep investing in yourself and don't settle based on scarcity just yet, then reflect and re-evaluate your position after another two years

That said, on the internet it is very, very easy to say 'dont settle' or give any advice really. And I can't give advice that is calibrated and accurate for your personally since I don't know your situation in depth. So I would offer the following to help guide your focus.

Some rhetorical questions to ask yourself in the meantime:

• Are you involved in regular church life and groups?
• Are you doing good deeds at church without expectation for being rewarded?
• Do you have a solid life outside of anything related to women (career, friends, etc)?
• Are you working out regularly?
• What are you doing to keep a youthful energy and are you otherwise maintaining your health?
• Are you maintaining your social skills?
• How would you rate yourself as Husband Material?
• Are you clear on your values in a woman and what trade-offs you are willing to make?
• Do you want kids and if so how much?
• How well prepared are you for being alone if you can't find a suitable candidate?

It can be very frustrating and demoralising out there. I absolutely, 100% get that. Thankfully there are solutions if you're motivated, capable, and are in a suitable location with the right opportunities. Even in a tough market you can still make it work if you put in the hard yards, stay motivated and... God Willing.

If not, monk mode may be a more realistic and better choice to consider once guys start approaching, say, late 40s and beyond.
Not every man is meant for marriage or called by God to have kids. In this case, it is important to be mentally, emotionally and spiritually prepared to focus on a meaningful life without women involved.

Yep, monk mode is always an option. I just hope physically able, young-ish guys don't use the decline of the West as an excuse to not give their best.

The courtship forum was shut and I don't want to get this thread locked so I'll leave it at that, and link to the below thread which offers some realistic tips for Christian Men seeking to navigate the modern dating market [https://www.rooshvforum.com/threads/hinge-dating-app-or-no-dating-apps.40262/post-1690287].

I hope this has been useful.

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While this is a good idea, if you're a white man, try your best to date a white woman. We need to protect our race, we are only 10% of the world's population right now, and that number is going to shrink massively over the next century as a result of white-on-white wars cooked up by the Jewish/elite cabal, miscegenation, liberal attitudes to dating and abortion etc. By race mixing, you're just playing into their hands/ contributing to the decline of your own race. I will also add that many of the women in the "hotspots" like Vietnam, The Philippines, etc, are not very intelligent and have inferior genes. So that is something to consider too.

Bearing all that in mind, I do understand why men choose these women, given how dire the dating market is in The West. The number of women with "non-standard" appearances, masculine behaviors, promiscuity, etc all very high. I may relent myself if I don't find a decent girl in the next few years. But I've made it my mission to try. With university coming up, some good opportunities should present themselves, especially considering the fact that men have been dropping out of universities en masse, so the ratio will likely be in my favor. If I don't succeed there, I'll probably head to Russia. The women there tend to have a standardized appearance and with my knowledge of Russian, it should be easy to find a nice one there.

Nagareboshi said:

[On RVF there are still] quite a few legacy threads about, how shall we call it, economic exploitation of impoverished non-western women for the particular purpose of getting easy girlfriends/wives, or ranking women of various kinds by ethnicity to deeply discuss which ones were easier to take advantage of, were closed and heavily moderated after RVF became a Christian forum. I would like to throw in my two cents to discourage such discussions and to at least talk as if your own priest were listening.

Click to expand...

I am surprised to read muddled-up feminist logic on this forum. How does one economically exploit the impoverished?

There were never any RVF threads about gaming to economically exploit rich widows at home or abroad.

Something that isn't discussed a lot is instead of going over to Latin America to find a wife, why not just let the Latinas come to you? In other words, why not just seek one of these potential wives out among the immigrant population in the US? I can't speak for the Orthodox or Catholic side of things but in the past 6-8 years I've met a lot of Latin Pentecostal/evangelical women and there's ton of women in that demographic that are wife material. There is a lot of talk in these red pill spaces about how it's a bad idea to bring these women back to the US lest they be tainted with Western feminist influence but what I've seen over and over again is that these type of women have traditional mindsets and are looking to be become wives and to have children and to adhere to traditional feminine roles. I've seen a few incidents where one of those women will start complaining about feminism in America out of nowhere.

Remember a lot of these women even in they are living in the US usually are raised in families and involved in communities that do a lot to inoculate them from societal programming. And I hesitate to bring this up since it might be too carnal but I know a lot of guys are concerned about this so here it is: if you are looking for someone who is a virgin or at least has a low body count, then you're going to find these type of women at a much higher rate in these circles. Below I'm linking a video pre-warning, has lots of vulgarity (though no nudity or anything) not to titillate but to give an example of the type of woman you can expect to encounter within this scene. The video is an episode of one of those Fresh and Fit style podcasts where the guests go off about their sexual escapades but what makes this different is that one of the guests is of a Latina woman who is in her mid 20s and still a virgin. She speaks about her values on how she plans to remain celibate until marriage. Relevant part starts at 22:00 in

analyst_green said:

I've lived abroad before. The culture and language gaps in Russia are not insurmountable, especially as a Bulgarian myself, but I wouldn't move anywhere solely to find a wife. Russia seems like a good option overall because it's the only white nation with a government that supports Christian values. Honestly the biggest drawbacks seem to be the harsh climate, the depressing look of many Eastern bloc cities, and the practical problems caused by Western sanctions.

Making sure we marry the right woman is something we need to focus on to the max. No doubt many Russian women have the mentality you describe, and the feminist agenda hasn't spared any part of the globe entirely. Father Kosmas, in his podcast, tells us that you must only look for women with virtue above all. Does she pray, does she treat others with respect, does she put her faith in God, or does she focus only on the material? Finding someone with virtue is going to cut the risk of divorce as much as possible.

Yes, this should be everyone's first priority, then Bulgaria, Russia or elsewhere as a backup plan.

What do you mean by this? Modern America feels like the definition of rootlessness these days.

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Just months ago, I was strongly considering Russia as a destination. But after watching some city walks through Russian cities, I'm not so sure anymore.

St. Petersburg might be the only attractive city in the entire country as the Baroque architecture looks absolutely regal compared to its southern counterparts. The parks there also look like something out of a dream. However...I just don't think I could stand the cold being so far north. Heck, there are Russians who move south because that city is too cold for them, especially with the winds they get that only make the situation worse. You'd never even be able to appreciate the beauty of the Russian women you see on the street because they are bundled up in large parkas like everyone else as they brave the cold for 9 months out of the year.

So what else? Moscow? Sure...if you like living in Russia's version of New York City. I'm told that traffic is absolute hell over there. It is busy and chaotic and people go there mainly to make money as that's where most of the business is. They do have a ton of stuff to do there along with having maybe the most gorgeous women in Russia, but now you're living in a city with weather only slightly warmer than St. Petersburg, minus the beautiful baroque buildings.

To find better weather, I also considered cities in the south like Sochi. You'd think it would look like paradise since it's right on the beach. However, I didn't get that feeling at all. It doesn't look rich, nor does it look like a charming little beach town. Once you get off the strip and drive into town, it looks like your basic Soviet city replete with strip malls and tower blocs. In addition to this, the beaches are composed of rocks instead of sand. Plus, you're basically hemmed in with very few places to go nearby since you have the Black Sea to the west, mountains to the east, and the country of Georgia to the south. This would explain why it's more of a vacation destination for Russians and not somewhere that people would actually want to live year-round. Well, at least you have the nice weather and you'll be able to see the lovely figures of those beautiful Russian women wearing sun dresses instead of parkas.

So between the weather, the architecture, the ability to get around, and the choice of things to do, you can't have it all. You just have to choose which is most important to you. But honestly, the cultural change over there alone might be too much for me. I feel like if I move to Russia, I'd have that moment soon after arriving where I'd be like, "Lord, what have I gotten myself into..."

N°6 said:

I am surprised to read muddled-up feminist logic on this forum. How does one economically exploit the impoverished?

There were never any RVF threads about gaming to economically exploit rich widows at home or abroad.

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So true. The globalists and feminists take control of the game, and you're just supposed to take it on the chin? What's the point of even "getting better" financially and otherwise, then? The idea that a certain pool of people are "off limits" is indeed feminine thinking.

I was reading the post about single moms. I’m in my early 30s so this is starting to become something that’s sinking in. I either need to accept a woman’s kids which I could entertain if she has one and I’d get my own - or I need to go a decade younger and most of them would just see a 30 year old guy approaching them as weird. Plus a 20 something probably has a plastic spirituality and isn’t interested in family.

I feel that after suffering the struggles and suffering of the last decade it’s a slap in the face to sacrifice what I’ve grown myself into for another man’s kids if she’s like “no thanks, I’ve had them, I’m done.” Sex isn’t the end all be all of existence. No matter what the left tries to tell you.

Nagareboshi said:

how shall we call it, economic exploitation of impoverished non-western women for the particular purpose of getting easy girlfriends/wives

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I’m planning on emigrating as an option and yes, it would be for an easier wife / girlfriend but i don’t think it’s as terrible as suggested above. No one’s off limits, especially if you stay in her county and assimilate to the culture. How is it bad if you take on her culture and follow her norms? They’re probably more healthy than anything in the west. You could even educate your kids on how you ended up there and how the west offers nothing but junk food and endless entertainment options, nothing real.

Another option is “priesting it up” as a celibate priest. Literally taking the black haha. To me building the Orthodox Church into a mainline American institution would be a life well lived.