Martial Arts/MMA Thread
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Interesting video about a Chinese martial artist who tries to take a realistic view of self defence e.g. always carry improvised weapon (scissors, wrenches, etc) so if you get into a real fight you have a better chance of winning. And he also puts emphasis on knowing the laws.
As someone who trained in Karate a long time a few things I want to address about fighting.
In fighting there are always trade offs. There are some important ones I want to talk about.
For example is that the "bladed stance" which is used by some boxers and some Taekwondo people and even some karate people is generally a stance which has a few positives but that comes with a lot of negatives. Your front jab is weaker because you get less shoulder rotation into your jab. Its harder to do front kicks because your foot has to pivot extra making it slower to execute and that is true for kicking from both legs. It is also harder to do roundhouse kicks from the bladed stance. You also cannot leg check a low kick to your front leg very effectively which means you are going to get your leg taken out. However from the bladed stance your mid body is less open to attack because its angled out of the way and harder to reach. Also its easier to do a side kick, back kick or back spinning kick from that stance.
Gabriel Varga (famous kickboxer and Muay Thai fighter) and Bas Rutten (famous MMA fighter) both do videos talking about the weaknesses of this stance. Overall I would say its not a great stance for most people but occasionally you find a fighter like Steven "wonder boy" Thompson who can make the stance work. For most fighters a more frontal stance is a better option. However when I say frontal I mean a standard frontal stance not a very short Wing Chun stance which also many weaknesses.
Many boxers might be light on their feet when moving around but often when they duck punches or punch their opponent they often have a low centre of gravity and go into a deep stance. This can deliver more power into the punches in a low stance but is adapted to boxing rules and in a real fight or mixed martial arts fight often means that you are too heavy on your legs and will will get your legs kicked repeatedly. If you ever fight a boxer just keep kicking their legs. Also ducking punches leaves your vulnerable to get kicked in the head if they follow up the punch with a head kick. Finally a lot of boxers always train and spar with gloves and are not used to using bare knuckles and hence sometimes they injure or even break their hands when they punch someone hard in a real (street) fight because they don't get used to having correct hand form and positioning.
In real fights unless you are a a top tier fighter (i.e. pro level) even as a trained martial artist I would avoid any kicks to the head for a few reasons. One reason is especially for older guys or less flexible guys doing a high kick when you are not stretched or warmed up often causes you to feel funny due to overstretching your groin muscles, etc. Also if you fall on concrete like if you miss and slip over and fall or the guy cuts you off and pushes you over etc it can hurt a lot falling on concrete (and you leave yourself vulnerable on the ground) and not worth the risk in general.
In a real fight I would also generally avoid doing any back kicks or back spinning kicks because if you don't execute well or miss your back is vulnerable and they can hit you in the spine or the back of the head etc all things which are generally disallowed in any tournament fights.
Wrestling and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Judo, (grappling in general) etc are highly effective in a one on one fight but less effective if there are multiple opponents as while you are on the ground rolling with the other guy his buddy can come and stomp on your head, etc.
And in a real fight often times you don't know how many guys you are actually fighting. I have been in situations where a fight almost broke out (luckily it was avoided) and seemingly out of nowhere more guys came in to join the guy who wanted to start a fight with me. In many situations you cannot be sure how many guys you are actually fightiung.
Grappling skills are useful in case the other guy takes you down (or tries to take you down), etc but striking should be the first port of call. Also there is always the possibility they can pull out a knife etc and in the situation you want to keep distance rather than be grappling somebody.
In a real fight scenario improvised weapons if available should be the used if available (empty beer bottles, scissors, a big stick, a broom, chair etc). If nothing is available punches, knees, elbows, and lower body kicks e.g. kciks to the knees, groin, legs, etc should be used. Also important to focus on stuff like attacking the groin, pucnhing the throat, eye gouging if in close range, etc.
In general you always want to avoid a fight as too many things can go wrong like they have friends that will join them, they might have a hidden knife or gun on them, you could win the fight but seriously injure the other person and get into serious legal problems (this has happened to people I know) despite the fact that they started the fight. Most fights happen due to ego battles and can be de-escalated. I have been in a few situations where the other person wanted to fight me and I de-escalated and avoided a fight by letting them have the ego win.
In fighting there are always trade offs. There are some important ones I want to talk about.
For example is that the "bladed stance" which is used by some boxers and some Taekwondo people and even some karate people is generally a stance which has a few positives but that comes with a lot of negatives. Your front jab is weaker because you get less shoulder rotation into your jab. Its harder to do front kicks because your foot has to pivot extra making it slower to execute and that is true for kicking from both legs. It is also harder to do roundhouse kicks from the bladed stance. You also cannot leg check a low kick to your front leg very effectively which means you are going to get your leg taken out. However from the bladed stance your mid body is less open to attack because its angled out of the way and harder to reach. Also its easier to do a side kick, back kick or back spinning kick from that stance.
Gabriel Varga (famous kickboxer and Muay Thai fighter) and Bas Rutten (famous MMA fighter) both do videos talking about the weaknesses of this stance. Overall I would say its not a great stance for most people but occasionally you find a fighter like Steven "wonder boy" Thompson who can make the stance work. For most fighters a more frontal stance is a better option. However when I say frontal I mean a standard frontal stance not a very short Wing Chun stance which also many weaknesses.
Many boxers might be light on their feet when moving around but often when they duck punches or punch their opponent they often have a low centre of gravity and go into a deep stance. This can deliver more power into the punches in a low stance but is adapted to boxing rules and in a real fight or mixed martial arts fight often means that you are too heavy on your legs and will will get your legs kicked repeatedly. If you ever fight a boxer just keep kicking their legs. Also ducking punches leaves your vulnerable to get kicked in the head if they follow up the punch with a head kick. Finally a lot of boxers always train and spar with gloves and are not used to using bare knuckles and hence sometimes they injure or even break their hands when they punch someone hard in a real (street) fight because they don't get used to having correct hand form and positioning.
In real fights unless you are a a top tier fighter (i.e. pro level) even as a trained martial artist I would avoid any kicks to the head for a few reasons. One reason is especially for older guys or less flexible guys doing a high kick when you are not stretched or warmed up often causes you to feel funny due to overstretching your groin muscles, etc. Also if you fall on concrete like if you miss and slip over and fall or the guy cuts you off and pushes you over etc it can hurt a lot falling on concrete (and you leave yourself vulnerable on the ground) and not worth the risk in general.
In a real fight I would also generally avoid doing any back kicks or back spinning kicks because if you don't execute well or miss your back is vulnerable and they can hit you in the spine or the back of the head etc all things which are generally disallowed in any tournament fights.
Wrestling and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Judo, (grappling in general) etc are highly effective in a one on one fight but less effective if there are multiple opponents as while you are on the ground rolling with the other guy his buddy can come and stomp on your head, etc.
And in a real fight often times you don't know how many guys you are actually fighting. I have been in situations where a fight almost broke out (luckily it was avoided) and seemingly out of nowhere more guys came in to join the guy who wanted to start a fight with me. In many situations you cannot be sure how many guys you are actually fightiung.
Grappling skills are useful in case the other guy takes you down (or tries to take you down), etc but striking should be the first port of call. Also there is always the possibility they can pull out a knife etc and in the situation you want to keep distance rather than be grappling somebody.
In a real fight scenario improvised weapons if available should be the used if available (empty beer bottles, scissors, a big stick, a broom, chair etc). If nothing is available punches, knees, elbows, and lower body kicks e.g. kciks to the knees, groin, legs, etc should be used. Also important to focus on stuff like attacking the groin, pucnhing the throat, eye gouging if in close range, etc.
In general you always want to avoid a fight as too many things can go wrong like they have friends that will join them, they might have a hidden knife or gun on them, you could win the fight but seriously injure the other person and get into serious legal problems (this has happened to people I know) despite the fact that they started the fight. Most fights happen due to ego battles and can be de-escalated. I have been in a few situations where the other person wanted to fight me and I de-escalated and avoided a fight by letting them have the ego win.
This happened a long time ago. Since then Benny the Jet has cross trained in even more martial arts including Brazilian jiu Jitsu. Benny is old now but still in good shape and still a legend.
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Although to be fair that is 2 highly skilled fighters. I am sure Khabib could submit most big guy amateurs from your local wrestling club or Brazilian jiu jitsu dojo.
Morons who think they can fight just because they have big muscles getting owned by skilled fighters. What kind of retard thinks they can beat professional fighters just because they are huge?
Grappling techniques from traditional Okinawan karate.
My MT teacher would always say he learned by watching fights. In classes he didn´t learn much. Nowadays with Youtube. There´s a lot of private classes videos. Which I think are useful.
I think Muay Thai is the best art for self defense. This is a known debate. But I fought a lot of street fights. Really a lot. Most will not believe but we would go the arab fight clubs in north Paris when I was young. The rule was the fight only ends when one gives up.
From all the street fights rarely does the fight goes to the ground.
I taught my youngest to use his elbows. He beat up his entire school. But it´s too dangerous. So he is not using them anymore. But just teaching elbows is enough to establish superiority. I also did it because one parent does Krav Maga. And one day the kid shows me a move the other kid had done to him that was Krav Maga. It´s really dangerous cause Krav attacks the eyes. So yeah. Thaught the kid some moves with elbows. And the KM kid never harrased him again.
Anyway if you google Muay Thai private classes on youtube there some nice videos. There´s also a video of Fedor Emelienko which is probably one of the best fighters ever. Really good. I haven´t time to teach my kids that one yet. It´s both grappling and striking.
It´s not this one. But anyway if you search you find more. I cant do any martial arts nowadays. I had to hold my leg up to leave the bathtub.
I think Muay Thai is the best art for self defense. This is a known debate. But I fought a lot of street fights. Really a lot. Most will not believe but we would go the arab fight clubs in north Paris when I was young. The rule was the fight only ends when one gives up.
From all the street fights rarely does the fight goes to the ground.
I taught my youngest to use his elbows. He beat up his entire school. But it´s too dangerous. So he is not using them anymore. But just teaching elbows is enough to establish superiority. I also did it because one parent does Krav Maga. And one day the kid shows me a move the other kid had done to him that was Krav Maga. It´s really dangerous cause Krav attacks the eyes. So yeah. Thaught the kid some moves with elbows. And the KM kid never harrased him again.
Anyway if you google Muay Thai private classes on youtube there some nice videos. There´s also a video of Fedor Emelienko which is probably one of the best fighters ever. Really good. I haven´t time to teach my kids that one yet. It´s both grappling and striking.
It´s not this one. But anyway if you search you find more. I cant do any martial arts nowadays. I had to hold my leg up to leave the bathtub.
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Elbows are really good if you are up really close to someone but ideally you never want to be that close to begin with. Something has gone wrong if you are resorting to elbowing someone in a real fight. Its like with a marine something has gone wrong if they have to resort to using their knife instead of their gun.
If you elbow someone in a fight. The fight is over.
In principle you want to use legs and keep distance. What I teach my kids is focused on defense. Teep teep teep. And head moves. But offense is also needed. And elbows are devastating.
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Being up close to someone reduces the skill advantage a trained fighter has over an untrained fighter. A good fighter has a lot of distance striking techniques (kicks, stepping punches, etc) and better foot work than an untrained fighter. Its hard for an untrained fighter to hit a trained fighter from 1.5 metres away but from right up close its much harder to block or evade a strike.
Years ago when I trained karate our instructor always used to tell us that being right up close was "the no skill zone" where even a person with no skill has the chance to hit you. On top of this by being up close you leave yourself vulnerable to attack from a hidden knife.
Will I use elbows if somebody gets right up in my face yes I would. Would I walk up to somebody to elbow them? No I would rather kick them or punch them before they get close enough to be in elbow striking distance.
I am not saying elbows do not work but the fact that you have to be close enough to elbow somebody means you are also exposed to being hit.
Generally yes. But if you are small and are facing a taller opponent that would mean suicide. I´m 1,96. So I fight distance.
Did you read the part I was talking about 8 year old kids? I don´t think they will bring a knife to the fight. But yeah. It might make sense for you.
If you did Karate you fight like a girl. Sorry. Did you ever had a street fight? A friend of mine is black belt judo and he says it´s worthless. I did also Karate and Judo and a little bit of BJJ only in Muay Thai you learn anything valuable. BJJ might be useful if you don´t want to hurt the other person. But its really gay.
Sooner or later I will go to Thailand for holidays with family. And kids are going to MT classes there.
If you are facing an untrained fighter just the way you position yourself before the fights starts will show them what they are against. Even an untrained fighter can pick up what will happen next if they keep being hostile. And most of the times they give up. I once was against a gym black dude my size. I just put my right foot back. The guy stopped talking and walked away. True story. I position my right feet back to fight and the guy leaves. Didn´t even move my arms or hands.
My main goal of posting was the private classes videos which I think are helpful for the forum. If you want to debate them. Go ahead. I´m not going to continue debating how 8 year old should fight. The best is if they don´t.
It really depends which dojo you trained at and what style of karate you did. Karate has a lot of mcdojos but if somebody trains at a reputable dojo then they are a solid fighter. Lyoto Machida, Bas Rutten, Georges St. Pierre and Steven "wonder boy" Thompson all had karate as their base art. Yes they trained in other martial arts also but their base came from karate.
Also nonsense about Judo and BJJ being ineffective. Again if you train somewhere solid for enough years you will be solid in a fight. Guys who trained Judo like Jeane Lebelle or Jigoro Kano (founder of judo) etc where tough as hell. Look at BJ Penn he became a champion in UFC and his base art was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Street fight is not UFC.
A street fight lasts seconds.
Judo and BJJ is shit. They cross train with striking. Cause as a single martial art it´s for gays. Actually my friend who is black belt judo. He jokes sayng fags invented that shit. To have a way to rub each other. He was a kid when he learned.
When you get hit by a good punch a flash happens in your eye. Did you ever felt that? It´s great. I love to fight. I don´t like scars or courts. But fighting is great. Fighting and girls are the best when you are young. I want my kids to fight and have many girlfriends.
The only strategy I teach them when there´s a knife is to RUN. That´s the only strategy. If they can´t run give everything you have to the robber. I will buy you new ones after. I can´t buy them a new life. But phones wallets yes.
Off to beach.
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We already had this discussion earlier on the thread in general as a single martial art a skilled grappler will beat a skilled striker on average. I even posted a video about how a brazilian jiu jitsu practitioner kicked the ass of Benny "the Jet" Urquidez back in the days before Benny learned to grapple. Also there are champion boxers who admit they would lose in a fight to a skilled wrestler. There was even a UFC fight posted in this thread about back in the early days of UFC before guys cross trained a champion boxer got owned by a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guy.
Yes a street fight is not UFC but there are plenty of documented cases of grapplers (BJJ or Judo or wrestling) dominating their opponents in street fights.
No. I have been to more than 1000 street fights probably. That´s not the case. Of course any trained fighter will have an advantage. But muay thai is the best training you can have for a street fight. BJJ and Judo are for gays. It´s a sport. Not a figthing skill. To have any merit they cross train with kickboxing normally. But then it becomes MMA. Because alone it´s worthless. It´s for homosexuals. You can never say BJJ alone is a good martial art. Go and fight like a turtle in street. Probably the original japanese was good. Brazilians poisoned it. I think combat sambo is the most complete of all. But I don´t find it anywhere. Anyway I cant fdo anything now cause of my knee. But Sambo would be good for my kids. There are no gyms anywhere.
I love the flash. And you strike. And get a good punch. And you punch back. And when it´s a lot of people figthing at the same time it´s even greater. I used to roam streets with friends just to fight. Once I told to a guy who had a stupid face. I will punch you. Dude look at me. What? Than he looks at my friend and asks if i´m serious. My friend tells him I am. Dude starts running. Ahahahah.
But when you get older. It´s not the same. Old really sucks. Kids are great though.
Beachtime.
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This video I posted earlier in the thread around the 1:30 mark the untrained guy walks into a brazilian jiu jitsu dojo and gets owned.
This video shows examples of Judo being used in real fights.
By the way I agree Mauy Thai is very effective in street fights, all I am saying is no need to trash other martial arts that are also effective.