WHY WUZ TEH BANT (Contest my ban lounge)

I agree Music crossed the line, and in fact, a lot of what he posted irriitated me. I actually don't care that much about plagerism. He quoted content that made the point he was trying to get across. I agree everybody should post in their own words, but I don't see this as some kind of kiss of death.

Even the second account is not a big deal. I've never done it, but I'll bet more than a few current members have.

I still appreciate him as a long time forum member. I have given likes for plenty of his posts.

Anyway, three months seems like a sufficient time out to me.
 
Caduceus said:
A 1 year ban is the right amount for "music" considering all the many warnings he was given by the moderators.
His ridiculous word salads, and endless walls of (mostly plagiarized) text ruined good threads all over the forum.
He should count himself lucky it isn't a permanent ban.
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Well as you disliked my post I feel like I would argue that he did spice up the forum quite a bit in ways some are not comfortable with.

Give him a month or two, he might calm down.
 
Completely disagree with those things not being a big deal. He posted things that I often strongly disagreed with but with the exception of him trying to make it seem like racial purity was a core doctrine of the church I never thought he should have been disciplined for his ideas he had nor do I think other members should be penalized for having whatever ideas they have.

However, I do think people should be disciplined for their behavior. For example if you are constantly trolling and making personal attacks on other members then you would get the mod enforcing the rules on you. If you want to quote content to get a point across then quote it instead of trying to present work as your own - I can't imagine any other circumstance where "well I was just quoting something to get a point across" would be viewed as an acceptable excuse. Its essentially a form of lying and I would place it under the same category as attacking another member since it's causing offense to your fellow brother. I hope we all agree lying to a brother/friend is an offense to them. Same as trying to assume a different identity and especially when it's explicitly to evade a ban which is also flouting the authority of the mods and staff on here that have put a lot of work into maintaining the sort of environment we have here.
 
Wutang said:
Completely disagree with those things not being a big deal. He posted things that I often strongly disagreed with but with the exception of him trying to make it seem like racial purity was a core doctrine of the church I never thought he should have been disciplined for his ideas he had nor do I think other members should be penalized for having whatever ideas they have.

However, I do think people should be disciplined for their behavior. For example if you are constantly trolling and making personal attacks on other members then you would get the mod enforcing the rules on you. If you want to quote content to get a point across then quote it instead of trying to present work as your own - I can't imagine any other circumstance where "well I was just quoting something to get a point across" would be viewed as an acceptable excuse. Its essentially a form of lying and I would place it under the same category as attacking another member since it's causing offense to your fellow brother. I hope we all agree lying to a brother/friend is an offense to them. Same as trying to assume a different identity and especially when it's explicitly to evade a ban which is also flouting the authority of the mods and staff on here that have put a lot of work into maintaining the sort of environment we have here.
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Shadow posting on a different account should be an instant ban indeed.
 
Wutang said:
I can't imagine any other circumstance where "well I was just quoting something to get a point across" would be viewed as an acceptable excuse.
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Considering this isn’t some school book report I don’t see plagiarism as some big deal. Would it have been better if he edited a few words to deliver the same message? I suppose. It’s not as if he’s profiting off of someone else’s work. And please save the “thumbs ups” he received on some posts as some “profit.”

As for the other account he made, well it seems he shot himself in the foot there.
 
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Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Considering this isn’t some school book report I don’t see plagiarism as some big deal. Would it have been better if he edited a few words to deliver the same message? It’s not as if he’s profiting off of someone else’s work. And please save the “thumbs ups” he received on some posts as some sort of “profit.”
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It's not the profiting that is the issue but the deceit that is involved in it. I would absolutely consider lying to be a big deal even if there is no immediate gain from the lie. If someone is willing to mis-represent himself even on small things that don't bring about immediate benefits then what is going to happen when there are substantial rewards on the line?

10 “One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in that which is another’s, who will give you that which is your own?
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- Luke 16:10–12 (quote indicated because I don't think I should be taking credit for being able to come up with that)
 
Wutang said:
I would absolutely consider lying to be a big deal even if there is no immediate gain from the lie.
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Bob: “How is your day going”
Joe: “It’s been nice”

In reality Joe’s day has been bad. I don’t see that as a big deal.
Wutang said:
- Luke 16:10–12 (quote indicated because I don't think I should be taking credit for being able to come up with that)
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Every single person at some point in life has lied. So what am I to do with this quote? It’s not as if I can compare a liar to a non-liar, because non-liars do not exist in this world at all.
 
Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Bob: “How is your day going”
Joe: “It’s been nice”

In reality Joe’s day has been bad. I don’t see that as a big deal.
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In our social climate just responding with "it's been nice" is considered a generic response to someone greeting you with "how's your day going" and not a literal statement. This is how the vast vast majority of people interpret this so there's no deceiving involved. I would saying quoting something and claiming it to be your own work to build reputation with people in your own community will acknowledge you as a "good contributor" is completely different. Social credit is indeed a very important thing especially communities like this where people are trying to cultivate an environment that's supposed to align with Christian values.

Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Every single person at some point in life has lied. So what am I to do with this quote? It’s not as if I can compare a liar to a non-liar, because non-liars do not exist in this world at all.
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The Bible quote wasn't about lying but about how if you are dishonest or un-trustworthy in small things then how can you be trusted in other things. I was using this to sum up what I was saying about how if you are dishonest in a small thing when there's no profit then you can't be trusted when there actually is profit since if the temptation to compromise yourself will be even greater then.

That said, this seems to be all moot since you do seem to agree that making another account to evade a ban is indeed serious so even if we did decide that plagiarism isn't a big deal, it seems like MFTP attempting to evade a ban with a sockpuppet account by itself is already enough to warrant his year long ban.
 
Wutang said:
In our social climate just responding with "it's been nice" is considered a generic response to someone greeting you with "how's your day going" and not a literal statement. This is how the vast vast majority of people interpret this so there's no deceiving involved. I would saying quoting something and claiming it to be your own work to build reputation with people in your own community will acknowledge you as a "good contributor" is completely different. Social credit is indeed a very important thing especially communities like this where people are trying to cultivate an environment that's supposed to align with Christian values.


The Bible quote wasn't about lying but about how if you are dishonest or un-trustworthy in small things then how can you be trusted in other things. I was using this to sum up what I was saying about how if you are dishonest in a small thing when there's no profit then you can't be trusted when there actually is profit since if the temptation to compromise yourself will be even greater then.

That said, this seems to be all moot since you do seem to agree that making another account to evade a ban is indeed serious so even if we did decide that plagiarism isn't a big deal, it seems like MFTP attempting to evade a ban with a sockpuppet account by itself is already enough to warrant his year long ban.
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It seems like you have a chip on your shoulder re the Mr music member.
 
Thomas More said:
I agree Music crossed the line, and in fact, a lot of what he posted irriitated me. I actually don't care that much about plagerism. He quoted content that made the point he was trying to get across. I agree everybody should post in their own words, but I don't see this as some kind of kiss of death.

Even the second account is not a big deal. I've never done it, but I'll bet more than a few current members have.

I still appreciate him as a long time forum member. I have given likes for plenty of his posts.

Anyway, three months seems like a sufficient time out to me.
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If Music wasn't a heirloom member, he'd have been perma banned for his outrageous behavior. He's abusing his seniority beyond what is acceptable.

The simple fact of the matter is that if points accumulate on one's account, all one needs to do is post less, follow the rules, and the points will go down over time.

If anyone manages to reach 20 points, they messed up hard, and deserve the year ban. Most points expire after 1-3 months, you're telling me you Music couldn't play nice for a few months?

Let's be real, he didn't respect the forum.
 
Because CIK is a small and niche community, I think the moderation here is best, as it often is, when it is easy-going and charitable (except in cases of clear trolling, highly aggressive posting behaviour, or unrelenting rule breaking). I believe that a lot of online annoyances can be easily overlooked, and that some members' and mods' regular use of down-voting reactions is an unnecessarily harsh and counter-productive way of communicating disagreement.

So, at first I thought that 1 year was an excessive time out and that perhaps a 2 or 3 month restriction would be more appropriate. Then... I looked at the rap sheet of over 10 warnings in a year (!) This is a sustained pattern of behaviour that likely reflects largely fixed personality characteristics including stubborn cognitive habits that are not easily adjusted through gentle, optional external nudges.

If someone keeps challenging the forum rules and moderators -- again and again -- then for how long can they expect this to be tolerated by the mods who work on a voluntary basis?

Caduceus said:
True change won't come from that short a time.

We've had clear examples of other members on this forum (who I won't name right now) who were banned for a full month or more, go right back to their old terrible habits starting with the very first post as soon as the ban ended.
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Yep. A lot of people don't learn and grow from feedback by considering its use. Rather, they see it as a personal threat and shut down anything that isn't aligned with their broad self concepts and pre-existing beliefs. Getting repeated warnings on a forum seems to have only a small effect (if any) on the behaviour of highly conceited posters.

Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Considering this isn’t some school book report I don’t see plagiarism as some big deal. Would it have been better if he edited a few words to deliver the same message? I suppose. It’s not as if he’s profiting off of someone else’s work. And please save the “thumbs ups” he received on some posts as some “profit.”

As for the other account he made, well it seems he shot himself in the foot there.
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@Wutang offered some eloquent thoughts on this already, so I'll add the following as something to further consider in relation to the plagiarism topic. This includes posts from me and others: https://christisking.cc/threads/hit...ground-of-world-war-two.797/page-3#post-35496

Moreover:
Ember said:
MFTP never apologized for his plagiarism. No repentance = bad actor. He'll be back with an army of sock puppets.
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Good point. On several occasions I recognised that MFTP was intellectually gifted. Yet he never seemed to take ownership of his plagarism or other behaviour linked to his 10+ warnings, such as an incessant tendency to insult other members. Conceited writing and talking down to others seems to be a recurring theme among people online who consider themselves high IQ and have secret knowledge about global level psy-ops. I addressed a few problems linked to such arrogance and insults here: https://christisking.cc/threads/the...er-enlightenment-thread.536/page-7#post-87458

Since bickering tends to be present on any forum online, this message is worth repeating: no matter the value in the content of an individual's position, insulting anyone who disagrees is a reliable way to ensure the argument remains unconvincing.

Indeed, some members (including myself, as a recovering "must be Mr Right") could probably benefit from re-reading the rules of CIK, especially rule #1 - be humble: https://christisking.cc/threads/rules-of-christ-is-king-forum.116/. This is often me after logging in:
1000044852.jpg

I wish MFTP all the best and hope his knowledge and research talents are put to productive use in the coming year. I hope he is doing well.
 
Man I've been pretty busy with work travel and a new baby last 2 months.

Looks like Music finally got da ban hammer ....the 5 paragraph posts make sense IF* it's clear this was a result of plagiarism... But I missed where that was discovered

Can someone give me the TLDR bullet point Summary?

I saw the screed calling Sammy not white. (Which is funny because he appeared on a podcast under his handle and it was very very clear he was indeed a white person from his voice)

I never had any direct issues, but it's disappointing when long time posters aren't able to make it work.
 
Steady Hands said:
Because CIK is a small and niche community, I think the moderation here is best, as it often is, when it is easy-going and charitable (except in cases of clear trolling, highly aggressive posting behaviour, or unrelenting rule breaking). I believe that a lot of online annoyances can be easily overlooked, and that some members' and mods' regular use of down-voting reactions is an unnecessarily harsh and counter-productive way of communicating disagreement.
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✅
Well said.
Steady Hands said:
So, at first I thought that 1 year was an excessive time out and that perhaps a 2 or 3 month restriction would be more appropriate. Then... I looked at the rap sheet of over 10 warnings in a year (!) This is a sustained pattern of behaviour that likely reflects largely fixed personality characteristics including stubborn cognitive habits that are not easily adjusted through gentle, optional external nudges.

If someone keeps challenging the forum rules and moderators -- again and again -- then for how long can they expect this to be tolerated by the mods who work on a voluntary basis?



Yep. A lot of people don't learn and grow from feedback by considering its use. Rather, they see it as a personal threat and shut down anything that isn't aligned with their broad self concepts and pre-existing beliefs. Getting repeated warnings on a forum seems to have only a small effect (if any) on the behaviour of highly conceited posters.



@Wutang offered some eloquent thoughts on this already, so I'll add the following as something to further consider in relation to the plagiarism topic. This includes posts from me and others: https://christisking.cc/threads/hit...ground-of-world-war-two.797/page-3#post-35496

Moreover:


Good point. On several occasions I recognised that MFTP was intellectually gifted. Yet he never seemed to take ownership of his plagarism or other behaviour linked to his 10+ warnings, such as an incessant tendency to insult other members. Conceited writing and talking down to others seems to be a recurring theme among people online who consider themselves high IQ and have secret knowledge about global level psy-ops. I addressed a few problems linked to such arrogance and insults here: https://christisking.cc/threads/the...er-enlightenment-thread.536/page-7#post-87458

Since bickering tends to be present on any forum online, this message is worth repeating: no matter the value in the content of an individual's position, insulting anyone who disagrees is a reliable way to ensure the argument remains unconvincing.

Indeed, some members (including myself, as a recovering "must be Mr Right") could probably benefit from re-reading the rules of CIK, especially rule #1 - be humble: https://christisking.cc/threads/rules-of-christ-is-king-forum.116/. This is often me after logging in:
View attachment 20429

I wish MFTP all the best and hope his knowledge and research talents are put to productive use in the coming year. I hope he is doing well.
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Samseau said:
If Music wasn't a heirloom member, he'd have been perma banned for his outrageous behavior. He's abusing his seniority beyond what is acceptable.

The simple fact of the matter is that if points accumulate on one's account, all one needs to do is post less, follow the rules, and the points will go down over time.

If anyone manages to reach 20 points, they messed up hard, and deserve the year ban. Most points expire after 1-3 months, you're telling me you Music couldn't play nice for a few months?

Let's be real, he didn't respect the forum.
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When I requested for his ban to be reduced I didn’t know he created the fake account. I wish he could have some patience, a month isn’t that long.
 
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Steady Hands said:
Because CIK is a small and niche community, I think the moderation here is best, as it often is, when it is easy-going and charitable (except in cases of clear trolling, highly aggressive posting behaviour, or unrelenting rule breaking). I believe that a lot of online annoyances can be easily overlooked, and that some members' and mods' regular use of down-voting reactions is an unnecessarily harsh and counter-productive way of communicating disagreement.
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For the same reason it could also be argued that moderation should be more strict, as all it takes is a small yet vocal minority to bring down the level of discourse and derail the entire community.

Hypothetically a poster like MFTP could simply be ignored into oblivion, but it is part of the imperfect nature of some other members to insist on rolling in the mud with pigs and further encouraging them, which highlights the need for a good shepherd to separate the pearls from the swine.
 
Steady Hands said:
@Wutang offered some eloquent thoughts on this already, so I'll add the following as something to further consider in relation to the plagiarism topic. This includes posts from me and others: https://christisking.cc/threads/hit...ground-of-world-war-two.797/page-3#post-35496

Moreover:
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As for MFTP’s plagiarism, considering he did it excessively in many places on the forum and didn’t apologize I can see how that could be an issue. In a few cases I have even copy pasted short paragraphs in order to facilitate discussions, although only on a few posts have I done this and it wasn’t to build “social credit” but more to share ideas. I see now why such behavior can be an issue and I will make sure not to do it again even if I wasn’t doing it to an excess degree. I hope people can also forgive me for those few cases of plagiarism as well, it was not intending to offend my fellow brothers in Christ here on this forum.
 
Shaquilleoatmeal said:
As for MFTP’s plagiarism, considering he did it excessively in many places on the forum and didn’t apologize I can see how that could be an issue. In a few cases I have even copy pasted short paragraphs in order to facilitate discussions, although only on a few posts have I done this and it wasn’t to build “social credit” but more to share ideas. I see now why such behavior can be an issue and I will make sure not to do it again even if I wasn’t doing it to an excess degree. I hope people can also forgive me for those few cases of plagiarism as well, it was not intending to offend my fellow brothers in Christ here on this forum.
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I don't think it's the same situation brother, there is a difference between copy and pasting something for informational purposes vs copy pasting in a passionate debate and claiming the words to be your own in an attempt to prove your authority on the subject which I highly doubt you were doing.
 
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