Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

Bitcoin curious/newcomers: here is a great reaction video that addresses common criticisms of Bitcoin including:
- "Marketing"
- Greater fool theory
- no cashflows
- only up 38% in fiat in 5 years

 
It's very lazy, shallow thinking to blame the Federal Reserve for all (or most) of our economic/financial woes. Anyone who is familiar with the history of banking in the United States understands perfectly well why the Fed was created. It was not a conspiracy by wealthy WASPs and Jews to steal the labor of every hard-working American. It was simply an effort to prevent full-scale economic collapse triggered by systemic banking crises, which occurred with shocking regularity after Andrew Jackson dissolved the Second Bank of the United States in 1836. These crises were not theoretical. They were fixtures of the nineteenth and early twentieth century American economy. With the Federal Reserve acting as the lender of last resort, the sort of banking panics that once typified the American economy became a relic of the past, providing stability which helped the economy expand even further.

Educate yourselves on what happens to a banking system without a central bank to provide injections of liquidity during a crisis:

 
It's very lazy, shallow thinking to blame the Federal Reserve for all (or most) of our economic/financial woes. Anyone who is familiar with the history of banking in the United States understands perfectly well why the Fed was created. It was not a conspiracy by wealthy WASPs and Jews to steal the labor of every hard-working American. It was simply an effort to prevent full-scale economic collapse triggered by systemic banking crises, which occurred with shocking regularity after Andrew Jackson dissolved the Second Bank of the United States in 1836. These crises were not theoretical. They were fixtures of the nineteenth and early twentieth century American economy. With the Federal Reserve acting as the lender of last resort, the sort of banking panics that once typified the American economy became a relic of the past, providing stability which helped the economy expand even further.

Educate yourselves on what happens to a banking system without a central bank to provide injections of liquidity during a crisis:
"Injections of liquidity" aka money printing.

Why should money lenders be bailed out by everyone else? They took the risk, they should realize the losses. This is communism.

Plank 5 of the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx:

"5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly."
 
"Injections of liquidity" aka money printing.
A feature and not a bug. Such flexibility is what makes fiat currency an extremely powerful invention. Since money is itself nothing but a social fiction to facilitate commerce, and has no actual value in and of itself, the ability to create money on demand - and to thereby stem the sort of panics that inevitably emerge when people suddenly start believing that money is scarce and must be hoarded - is a very useful property.
Why should money lenders be bailed out by everyone else? They took the risk, they should realize the losses. This is communism.
You can also call fire departments and public roads communism under the same logic. And yet if your neighbor's house catches on fire and it threatens to spread to yours - through no fault of your own - you would probably be glad to see that "communist" fire truck headed your way, driving down the "communist" road. Banking panics, like out of control fires, end up harming people who had nothing to do with their origin, which is why it is in the public interest to stymie them as much as possible.
Plank 5 of the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx:

"5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly."
And yet the vast, overwhelming majority of credit money in our financial system is created by private banks issuing loans, not a state-owned central bank. In addition to educating yourself on the history of banking, I suggest you also research the history of communism and its implementation. I think you will quickly realize that actual communism, especially as practiced in the Soviet Union, was a much more overarching and totalitarian economic system than anything we've ever seen in the West. In no way does our banking system even begin to approximate the level of total economic control and oppression that the communists wielded over their populations.
 
Why should money lenders be bailed out by everyone else?
Because look at the fortunate lives we have and live in spite of the Federal Reserve and a (((rigged))) economic system that bails out (((crooks))). The Rothschild's and jews became monopolistic trillionaires but allowed 25 million Americans to become millionaires in the process (not out of benevolence but because they need us in order to survive and have their trillions mean anything). And despite inflation, a million dollars still means something in terms of one being able to "buy one's own version of freedom" in 2026. So (((The System))) sucks within the globohomo blackpill frame but within the US Dollar Chad Frame we keep going to work and chugging along (no matter what the fear mongering MSM says tomorrow's gas prices will be). We can thank our (((enemies))) for the lives we have while still wanting to eradicate them from our government and bring (((them))) to justice for taking more than their fare share off the sweat of our brow.

Look at the history of your family and loved ones. Look at how everything, though flawed, works. If one really stops at any given street corner in America it is a giant miracle of engineering and organization. Curbs that are even, roads without potholes, houses wired with electricity with roofs that don't leak, functioning stoplights, no masked men jumping out of bushes with AK's and car jacking you, etc., etc., etc.

Furthermore, bitcoin wouldn't exist without American history unfolding exactly the way it has up until this date in 2026, so once again you're worshipping the cart while killing the horse which is biting the hand that feeds you. Bitcoin is nothing without a strong US dollar. Bitcoin is nothing without a strong US economy. Bitcoin wouldn't exist without the Federal Reserve and bank bailouts. You keep pretending bitcoin is separate from the US dollar, but if bitcoin cannot be traded for US dollars (or Euros) it is literally worthless. Fortunately for bitcoin bros, it can be.

It's all quite existential in nature and can't be processed logically and with a Wharton School Of Business (((money))) mindset. Things are the way they are because that's just the way they are. We all have to live with that. Currently bitcoin is trading at 70K, and gas (for me) is $2.99 a gallon (up 50 cents/gal in one week).

In other words, still, "Nothing is happening," and we all should still be looking to "Get. Out. Now." Bitcoin was invented by jews and by holding it you are playing their game. And when you play jew games, you can expect to win jew prizes.
 
"hoarding money" also known as saving, is not harmful -- it is a measure of generosity

It is a measure of a person's limited time, given to others in excess of time demanded from others

all of us have a finite time on earth, why should we measure it with infinite money? its illogical

why support those who take more than they give?

the biggest debtors (governments and banks) have brainwashed you into thinking their counterfeiting and usury scam is necessary in order to have roads...this is just stockholm syndrome
 
A feature and not a bug. Such flexibility is what makes fiat currency an extremely powerful invention. Since money is itself nothing but a social fiction to facilitate commerce, and has no actual value in and of itself, the ability to create money on demand - and to thereby stem the sort of panics that inevitably emerge when people suddenly start believing that money is scarce and must be hoarded - is a very useful property.

You can also call fire departments and public roads communism under the same logic. And yet if your neighbor's house catches on fire and it threatens to spread to yours - through no fault of your own - you would probably be glad to see that "communist" fire truck headed your way, driving down the "communist" road. Banking panics, like out of control fires, end up harming people who had nothing to do with their origin, which is why it is in the public interest to stymie them as much as possible.

And yet the vast, overwhelming majority of credit money in our financial system is created by private banks issuing loans, not a state-owned central bank. In addition to educating yourself on the history of banking, I suggest you also research the history of communism and its implementation. I think you will quickly realize that actual communism, especially as practiced in the Soviet Union, was a much more overarching and totalitarian economic system than anything we've ever seen in the West. In no way does our banking system even begin to approximate the level of total economic control and oppression that the communists wielded over their populations.
You know fiat currency was part of the reason for he collapse of the Roman empire (they kept diluting their gold and silver coins with increasing amounts of copper a.k.a. Money printing).

Also banking panics happen because of fractional reserve banking. You can have a gold backed currency but if you have fractional reserve banking (rather than full reserve banking) then you will have periodic banking panics.
 
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"hoarding money" also known as saving, is not harmful -- it is a measure of generosity

It is a measure of a person's limited time, given to others in excess of time demanded from others

all of us have a finite time on earth, why should we measure it with infinite money? its illogical

why support those who take more than they give?
Money cannot fulfill its primary function (medium of exchange) if it is being hoarded. The other two functions of money (store of value and unit of account) are secondary, and can only be realized if the money is primarily utilized for commerce/exchange. I think your biggest hangup is that you simply do not understand the purpose of money. You think that money is something that is supposed to be valuable in and of itself as a means of storing labor value through time, which is why Bitcoin appeals to you. Because there are only 21 million units, Bitcoin is inherently rare and therefore must have value. Ok, that's at least a reasonable position, in the sense that Bitcoin is theoretically a scarce asset that should rise in value indefinitely (this belief focuses only on supply and totally ignores demand, but we'll ignore that for now). But it is precisely this same property (scarcity) which makes it completely unworkable as money, because people are prone to hoard rather than spend it. Money is to the economy as blood is to the body: if it stops flowing or otherwise becomes too scarce, the organism dies.
the biggest debtors (governments and banks) have brainwashed you into thinking their counterfeiting and usury scam is necessary in order to have roads...this is just stockholm syndrome
You have brainwashed yourself by consuming a voluminous amount of pro-Bitcoin and anti-fiat material. You know all the arguments in favor of Bitcoin and against fiat, but you remain ignorant of the history of banking (and thus how and most importantly why our banking/financial system developed the way it did). This ignorance has led you to presume that our entire economy can and should be run on a Bitcoin standard, and that centuries of trial and error and and experimentation using fiat currencies should all be tossed out the window in favor of a wholly untested (and transparently unsuitable for no shortage of reasons) cryptocurrency. You would endanger the lives of billions of people by upending the financial and banking system, the bedrock of the global economy, simply for the chance to test out your fringe libertarian theories and pump your bags. No, sir, I'm not the one who is brainwashed here.
You know fiat currency was part of the reason for he collapse of the Roman empire (they kept diluting their gold and silver coins with increasing amounts of copper a.k.a. Money printing).
It's quite a stretch to claim that currency debasement was a cause of the collapse of the Roman empire. In reality it was more of a symptom of imperial decline and overreach. If currency debasement had not been possible, their collapse simply would have accelerated. Let's not derail any further with talk of Rome though.
Also banking panics happen because of fractional reserve banking. You can have a gold backed currency but if you have fractional reserve banking (rather than full reserve banking) then you will have periodic banking panics.
There's nothing wrong with fractional reserve banking as long as you have a system in place to discourage panics/bank failures and to alleviate them when they do inevitably occur. Fractional reserve banking allows banks the freedom to create money (via loans) in direct proportion to the economic needs of the local community. In a strict gold-backed monetary system, there is often simply not enough money available to meet the needs of a growing economy. You can make theoretical arguments for why this is not the case and how deflation is actually a good thing until you're blue in the face, but the history of banking has demonstrated over and over, in practice, that you are simply wrong, and that societies which are able to properly harness fiat currency and fractional reserve banking (which should be viewed as an invention/form of technology) are able to enjoy greatly accelerated economic growth and development.

If you're an honest thinker (and I believe that you are) you should take a step back and seriously ask yourself why, if fiat and fractional reserve banking is so harmful, it is utilized by every advanced economy in the world (including Asian ones that have no history of influence/interaction by Jewish bankers). Look at the almost unbelievable economic advancement China and Singapore have achieved over the span of just a few decades. This simply would not have been possible using a gold- or Bitcoin-backed currency, because it would not be flexible enough to expand to meet the needs of a quickly growing economy.
 
Lets simplify the argument a little.
Imagine a tiny island nation with 10 citizens, one of which is the chief.
9 people work: 1 guy spends 8 hr days fishing, another cuts wood, while another makes huts, etc.

The chief sits in his hut all day doing nothing productive...except he can create new money. He then lends it, with interest, to the fisherman so he can buy a boat from the builder. The chief now owns the fishing boat, until the fisherman pays off the loan.

Do you see that the people who create money from nothing do not add productivity, they reduce it: instead of becoming a boat builder, the chief simply stole the wealth of everyone doing actual work, to buy himself a boat, and rent it via usury to the fisherman.

There are 9 people working instead of 10. And all 9 people are paying the chief (through inflation) to do nothing but extort them through usury rent seeking.

Money printing is a scam.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

Bitcoin won't collapse fiat currencies: they were collapsing before bitcoin even existed.
 
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Bitcoin won't collapse fiat currencies: they were collapsing before bitcoin even existed.
I can only speak to the US dollar and my 50+ years of using it everyday, day in and day out. And the one thing I can tell you for certain is that it is not collapsing. This is an indisputable fact of today, and you have no other facts to the contrary except "tomorrow I'm pretty sure the whole US economic system is going down the sh*tter."

You can talk in circles until you're blue in the face about your economic theories, but they are still no substitute for reality. And what is the reality? The US economy is, as of today, the best economy in the world in relationship to the value of its money, services, social cohesion (it's a miracle we're not all in constant civil war killing each other), safety, due process of law, infrastructure (quality of roads, bridges, houses, buildings, etc.), and ability to provide pathways for nobody's to start with nothing economically and rise into the top 20% in less than a decade (providing one is medium IQ and puts in 60+ hours per week).

Furthermore, bitcoin itself is the thing that is collapsing (from 126K to 70K and falling) because there is a finite supply (of which 95% has already been mined), nobody understands it, it is difficult to use, and because one cannot physically possess/touch it which makes it boring to most normies who like holding collectibles and money in their hands.
 
Lets simplify the argument a little.
Imagine a tiny island nation with 10 citizens, one of which is the chief.
9 people work: 1 guy spends 8 hr days fishing, another cuts wood, while another makes huts, etc.
This simplification illustrates once again that you simply do not understand money creation in a fiat system. You are completely focused on the Federal Reserve/central bank (the "1 guy"), and ignore the fact that the vast majority of created money (over 95%) comes in the form of loans issued by private banks. These private banks exist in individual cities and communities (read: they are a decentralized and widely distributed network), and provide the liquidity that allows for local economic development to occur. The bank indeed creates money out of thin air, but it cannot do so recklessly.

The money is created in the form of a loan to the borrower, which is simultaneously both an asset and a liability for the bank (basic double entry accounting). The newly created funds owed to to the borrower are a liability, while the stream of repayments (plus interest) are regarded as an asset. The bank needs to be repaid in order to balance its books and remain solvent. It therefore has an incentive to only issue loans (that is, to only create new money) to borrowers who are a good credit risk and who can be expected to repay. From this perspective, it becomes clear that the process of money creation is intimately tied in with encouraging productive economic activity that can generate a return sufficient to repay the loan.

When the loan is eventually repaid, the money that was created out of thin air is destroyed: all that remains is the interest paid (which creates a constant low level inflation) and fruits of the economic activity made possible by the loan (i.e. new businesses or real estate developments). Thus it becomes clear that banks do not just "sit around doing nothing" and collecting free money, rather, they function to help ensure that the supply of new money directly matches the needs of the economy. This is the means by which fiat encourages economic development. From this perspective, we can see that banks and fiat currency are simply tools that facilitate economic activity by creating new money (the blood of the economy) in direct proportion to demand for it.

The irony is that it is actually Bitcoin that more closely resembles your facile simplification. In this case you have nine people who don't own any Bitcoin and one guy who does, and who then proposes that everyone else needs to buy his Bitcoin and use it exclusively for money. The process of money creation via fiat is actually much more fair and equitable than what is possible with Bitcoin given its current Gini coefficient.
 
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