Catholicism: Criticism & Debate Thread

Reminder that Francis was the last pope of the Vatican II Generation
John Paul II was 42-45 years old when the Council was held and an archbishop at the end of it
Benedict XVI was 35-38, and already a priest.
Francis was 25-28, either in jesuit formation or a rookie priest.
Leo XIV was 7-10 years old at that time.

We're not at the time of a zoomer tradtwitter based 2002 born pope yet, but Leo shouldn't have the emotional link to Vatican II priests like Francis had, that generation is dying out. I hope this is the first step out of this nightmare.
 


I saw this guy at a debate he did. Obviously I don't agree with him, but I thought he handled himself fairly well during the debate (the post-debate spin is a whole other story). Then this comes up, he offers an explanation of himself, and disappears from social media. When I started seeing grifters like Gay Liar sensationalizing it to score points, I tuned out. Anybody pay attention to this or followed along since then? How did the accusations even come up?
 
I hope this is the first step out of this nightmare.
Nope, the first and only step out of this nightmare is out of that 'church'. I'm so glad I don't have to navigate my way through the RCC schizophrenia any more. It felt like being locked up in an asylum where patients run the show.
 
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Leo shouldn't have the emotional link to Vatican II priests like Francis had, that generation is dying out. I hope this is the first step out of this nightmare.
I've never seen the Vatican II Council as a disaster, in my early 40s now, I never knew the Latin rite. I think it's a false explanation for the different subsequent woes of the Church. I think most, if not all homosexual priest had been ordained, or in seminaries before the changes. Female altar servers- if enough boys were willing to be that, girls wouldn't even try.

I look at it as a response of the Church to the general downhill trajectory the western civilization had been on since the end of WWI. There was a multitude of factors at play. There were the stupid movies of Fellini or Antonioni in the 60s, immorality, the race to recapture the lost years of consumption after the WWII nightmare. But in Poland there was no perceivable collapse, but growth in religious life following the council. Now with increasing prosperity people see nobody will think any less of them when they stop going to church. But it's OK, those who care still do, and they're for real, not products of the surrounding culture and the environment.

The Latin mass did not stop the French from abandoning God- when Saint John Vianney became pastor, he had to work with heathen villagers. In contrast, People kept their faith in Poland during the 125 years of partitions, in defiance of the efforts of the occupiers to Russify or Germanize them. In Prussia occupied territories all 120 monasteries for men, and 66 (74%) for women were forcibly liquidated. The Russian government closed down 609 (>98%) of monasteries for men, and 93 (60%) for women. The respective governments' treasuries seized the monastic estates and funds.

When Pope JPII was in Philadelphia, then as the archbishop of Cracow, he said in his speech:

We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of divine Providence; it is trial which the whole Church, and the Polish Church in particular, must take up. It is a trial of not only our nation and the Church, but, in a sense, a test of 2,000 years of culture and Christian civilization with all of its consequences for human dignity, individual rights, human rights and the rights of nations



Never heard of him, looks like he's over 40, so yeah, he shouldn't go there, it's not Afghanistan where 85 year olds buy themselves 14 year old brides. Though in Latin America 14 year old peasant girls still do get married to 19 or 20 year old kids.

That said, and I haven't verified any of this, just going by an internet comment I saw on some Polish news site, the country's new president met his wife when she was 15, he was 22. She was already a single mother, he married her at 24 when she turned 17 and nobody's permission was required any more, and adopted that kid. And that's alright by me. I don't care if even a 25-26 year old guy marries a 15 year old girl if he can support a family and she wants to be a housewife.

Spain.
Bishops Conference supports muslims after islamic public festivity is banned on soccer stadium, appealing to democracy. Cardinal Cobo attacks right wing party Vox for being xenophobic. Vox leader expresses sadness over bishops defending islamization in the country.
In my experience the society does not listen or care what religious leaders say. It's not a big influence, everybody makes up his own mind, according to his own desires.
 
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Never heard of him, looks like he's over 40, so yeah, he shouldn't go there, it's not Afghanistan where 85 year olds buy themselves 14 year old brides. Though in Latin America 14 year old peasant girls still do get married to 19 or 20 year old kids.
He started gaining traction about a year ago. All my Catholic friends were fans of his and were pretty disappointed when this came out. I'm withholding judgement until the full story comes out. He's actually 30, and this story allegedly happened around 11 years ago, making him 19-20. One of the girls he was messaging was 14-16, depending on the account.

16 year old and 19 year old doesn't look good but it looks a lot better than 14 and 20. Lots of states wouldn't even have a legal problem with it based on Romeo and Juliet laws.
 
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