Is fast food as a business doing well or is fast food dying out, how about vs the chipotle model.

It makes me angry when greedy boomers who fucked the world try to gaslight younger generations about how "young people don't want to work anymore" when we get a fraction of the wages they got when measured in real terms.

In 1971 (when America went off the partial gold standard) federal minimum wage in the USA was $1.60 per hour. At that time an ounce of gold was roughly $44.60 USD (closing price for 1971). So a full time minimum wage job (38 hour work week) earned you 1.36 ounces of gold in a week. Today federal minimum wage in the USA is $7.25 per hour. 1 week of full time work (38 hours) in a minimum wage job in America today would earn you just 0.081 ounces of gold. So when you measure wages properly according to real inflation (the gold price) young people today on minimum wage are literally getting paid 94% less then boomers who entered the work force and worked a minimum wage job. And these psychopath boomers have the audacity to complain that young people have a bad attitude at work. These greedy boomers are lucky that young people today even show up at work for the slave level wages they are receiving. Minimum wage (based on how much gold it would buy you) would literally have to be $121 USD per hour today to be equivalent to what boomers were receiving when they entered the workforce. Boomers should just be grateful there has not been a violent revolution against them by the younger generations.
Many, if not most states have higher minimum wage laws, with $15/hour being pretty common, about 10x the 1970 level. I don't think the price change in gold is a good indicator of the change in the cost of living. For example, a new 1970 Chevy Impala was $3000-3500, and now they cost 10x as much. However, the median price of a house has gone up 20x since 1970.

The overall increase in the cost of living is somewhere between that for a car and for a house, so maybe 12-18x. That's more than the increase in minimum wage, but using gold for the comparison gives an unrealistic picture of the difference in buying power.
 
Many, if not most states have higher minimum wage laws, with $15/hour being pretty common, about 10x the 1970 level. I don't think the price change in gold is a good indicator of the change in the cost of living. For example, a new 1970 Chevy Impala was $3000-3500, and now they cost 10x as much. However, the median price of a house has gone up 20x since 1970.

The overall increase in the cost of living is somewhere between that for a car and for a house, so maybe 12-18x. That's more than the increase in minimum wage, but using gold for the comparison gives an unrealistic picture of the difference in buying power.
It could be somewhat due to the continued competition and relative technological changes/efficiency in each, but really the housing difference demonstrates very well that indeed real estate has been used, or seen, as a savings technology (different type of "money") which accounts for this difference. It is very important to point this out as per our conversation here about what money is, what's been going on with debasement of the currency/monetary system, etc.
 
Many, if not most states have higher minimum wage laws,
Yes but that would have been the case in 1971 also.

So you cannot make an apples to oranges comparison. It needs to be apples to apples either compare federal minimum wage in 1971 to federal minimum wage today or California minimum wage in 1971 to California minimum wage today, etc but you cannot compare federal minimum wage 1971 to California minimum wage today.

For example, a new 1970 Chevy Impala was $3000-3500, and now they cost 10x as much. However, the median price of a house has gone up 20x since 1970.
Firstly as Blade Runner pointed out technology is supposed to get cheaper over time due to technological advancements. If you look at stuff that is less technology focused like food, rent, electricity, healthcare, education costs, etc they have all risen faster than the consumer price index over time.

In 1971 an average man could graduate high school and go work in factory and afford to have a non working stay at home wife and two kids, own two cars, take family vacations every year etc on the wage of a factory worker. Today you would need to be a hot shot lawyer or investment banker or work for google etc to have the same lifestyle as a factory worker could afford in 1971.
 
Here in Michigan I pay my warehouse employees who do monkey work around those numbers starting out.
Again this goes back to why you complain about not being able to find competent employees. Starting wage for a warehouse employee should be at least $25 per hour if you want somebody reliable with good work ethic. Then once they prove themselves the pay can get bumped up higher e.g. $27 - $30 per hour plus overtime and bonuses, etc. If you pay $20 per hour you will get a lot of dropkicks. Stop being a greedy boomer.

But you have the boomer mentality that employees have to prove themselves to you first which is wrong.

When I was younger and naive I busted my ass for companies that did not deserve it and I was underpaid and treated like dirt.

Never again. My default position is to now do the minimum until a company proves to me that they are worth me caring about and putting effort. If a company pays well above average straight off the bat and treats me really well I am happy to show initiative and go above and beyond for them. But if a company has the attitude that I have to prove myself to them then all they are going to get from me is the absolute minimum. Minimal pay = minimal effort.

You have a huge ego. Don't get it wrong, you have to prove yourself to your employees not the other way around. This is why most workplaces suck today because employers are very entitled. We need to bring back the era of strong unions and workers strikes etc because employers have gotten too arrogant.
 
That is starting wage. In Canada, after a 4 year apprenticeship, HVAC techs make 50/hr, plus a ton of overtime.
There's no doubt a trade can be worth it if someone sticks it out for 5+ years. Most of the hvac journeymen around here aren't at $50/hr, but still doing well. Plumbers and electricians are the ones making really good money.

My problem with it is the initial poverty wages, hoops you have to jump through and in many cases horrible coworkers. They have this mentality of constantly proving yourself while getting paid garbage wages, and getting treated poorly throughout the process. Most other careers aren't like this. I'd be more open minded if I was younger, but at this point there are easier, smarter and quicker ways to make money.

The trades can be a great career choice, but it becomes just another bs job like everything else. They are overhyped in my opinion, and the high demand for new people isn't there (at least where I live).
 
But you have the boomer mentality that employees have to prove themselves to you first which is wrong.
Many employers massage their duplicitous ego by telling themselves that they'll pay someone better if they prove themselves but they rarely ever do it. That's because there is nothing holding them accountable and they can sit back, keep paying you the bare minimum, and browbeat you into working harder and harder. When the time comes for bonuses or wage increases, you won't hear from them or they'll make a mountain out of a molehill that you did. When I was younger, I once got denied a $500 bonus for having a lighter in my pocket. Even when the manager and I would step outside to have smoke breaks. I knew they cheated me but I left it in God's hands and that was that. God came through for me big time when I eventually left that company.
 
Again this goes back to why you complain about not being able to find competent employees. Starting wage for a warehouse employee should be at least $25 per hour if you want somebody reliable with good work ethic. Then once they prove themselves the pay can get bumped up higher e.g. $27 - $30 per hour plus overtime and bonuses, etc. If you pay $20 per hour you will get a lot of dropkicks. Stop being a greedy boomer.

But you have the boomer mentality that employees have to prove themselves to you first which is wrong.

When I was younger and naive I busted my ass for companies that did not deserve it and I was underpaid and treated like dirt.

Never again. My default position is to now do the minimum until a company proves to me that they are worth me caring about and putting effort. If a company pays well above average straight off the bat and treats me really well I am happy to show initiative and go above and beyond for them. But if a company has the attitude that I have to prove myself to them then all they are going to get from me is the absolute minimum. Minimal pay = minimal effort.

You have a huge ego. Don't get it wrong, you have to prove yourself to your employees not the other way around. This is why most workplaces suck today because employers are very entitled. We need to bring back the era of strong unions and workers strikes etc because employers have gotten too arrogant.
Australian dollars and US dollars are not the same. There might be miscommunication.
 
Australian dollars and US dollars are not the same. There might be miscommunication.
Nope. I am well aware of the difference of AUD vs USD and I was aware he was talking U.S. dollars. $20 USD per hour is not going to get you a worthwhile employee. For example minimum wage for a warehouse employee in Australia would be $26.70 AUD which is $17.42 in USD. So $20 USD per hour is barely above minimum wage for a warehouse worker in Australia and would not get you somebody reliable and diligent. You would just be hiring mostly dropkicks for $20 USD per hour.

In U.S.A. also $20 USD per hour is mostly not going to get you a diligent, experienced and hardworking warehouse employee. For $20 USD per hour you will be mostly hiring dropkicks and then gaslighting everyone and complaining about how "young people just don't want to work any more." Pay $25 USD per hour plus overtime (and bonuses where warranted) off the bat and you will be able to consistently hire good employees.

Francis K, Dave Ramsey and others like them need to stop being selfish tight arse boomers and actually pay up to get quality employees. Bloody take accountability and don't blame other people because you shot yourself in the foot by being stingy. Entitled boomers.
 
Bloody take accountability and don't blame other people because you shot yourself in the foot by being stingy. Entitled boomers.
It's just two things coming to a head.

If you're not operating a money printing business, payroll is the first thing you cut. No one wants to operate a business that just sustains itself. Management wants big salaries and a lot of free cash flow. Then you got people who think their employees are responsible for the success of the business. It's so prevalent now they write it in the job ads. You're going to be providing the type of customer service that will make "us" a fortune 500 company. If you just want a job, we don't want you.

Then you got the young people. The young people rightfully see that the juice is not worth the squeeze. I've seen it in my day. I've worked jobs where classmates [in some cases] showed up and just walked off. Eventually I too gave up and ended finding a different path.

Now it's so much worse, especially for a young man. You can't provide for a girlfriend, you can't get a girlfriend, you somehow find yourself competing with Chads and Tyrones despite them being a tiny minority. The regular guys are so invisible that the only thing you see are the good-looking Chads, the rich guys and Tyrones who have some gorilla "strength" advantage over you. The "regular" guys on the other hand come out the shadows to hate on your shit anytime something good happens to you. The government hates you. You're constantly policed by all structures of society because you're an easy target to bully. You need money but the only thing they're willing to give you is slave wages. You show up and they start getting fresh with you, talking about you need an attitude adjustment. Not only are you losing all your youth, but you're responsible for someone else's success. People that roll up in a Benz, don't look at you and chat with middle management about how the numbers don't justify the perks you're getting.

That's how I see it. They're lucky young men are stupid and don't know anything, unable to compare and contrast. The only thing they're able to do is to react emotionally. I know it looks super gay when young people acquire that emotional, defensive, obnoxious attitude but at the end of the day that's how they express their discontent. That's the look of someone who doesn't feel comfortable in their skin and it is society's fault.
 
I think sales jobs with a good base salary are the way to go right now. Security from the salary, and opportunity to make a lot more with commissions. Plus you get the experience of learning a very valuable skill in business and life in general.

Waiting a year to get a raise of maybe a buck or two more an hour isn't going to cut it in today's world.
 
Again this goes back to why you complain about not being able to find competent employees. Starting wage for a warehouse employee should be at least $25 per hour if you want somebody reliable with good work ethic. Then once they prove themselves the pay can get bumped up higher e.g. $27 - $30 per hour plus overtime and bonuses, etc. If you pay $20 per hour you will get a lot of dropkicks. Stop being a greedy boomer.

But you have the boomer mentality that employees have to prove themselves to you first which is wrong.

When I was younger and naive I busted my ass for companies that did not deserve it and I was underpaid and treated like dirt.

Never again. My default position is to now do the minimum until a company proves to me that they are worth me caring about and putting effort. If a company pays well above average straight off the bat and treats me really well I am happy to show initiative and go above and beyond for them. But if a company has the attitude that I have to prove myself to them then all they are going to get from me is the absolute minimum. Minimal pay = minimal effort.

You have a huge ego. Don't get it wrong, you have to prove yourself to your employees not the other way around. This is why most workplaces suck today because employers are very entitled. We need to bring back the era of strong unions and workers strikes etc because employers have gotten too arrogant.


You realize that you cherry picked one sentence from me out of context that came from a post where I'm actually saying the wage for a job is too low right? If you want to have an actual discussion don't cherry pick out of context sentences to indulge your emotional tirades, you seem to have purposely missed everything else I said in the thread because it didn't help you get your emotions out. I'm really far from a boomer dude might as well call me racist and anti-semite while you're at it or whatever other dumb phrase you use for whoever you don't agree with. I'm not going to waste my time defending myself against such ignorance, you know NOTHING of what you speak of especially when it comes to me personally and how I run my businesses. You're not a business owner, sorry to break it to you but what you're saying is not some grand revelation that hasn't been tried......it doesn't work in the real world it's marxist little kid bullshit it actually makes a lazy entitled employee even more lazy and entitled. If you want to talk about yourself then go for it but don't lump me in with whatever shit companies you worked for, rein in that lack of self awareness which seems to be your hallmark before you call someone else entitled.
 
Nope. I am well aware of the difference of AUD vs USD and I was aware he was talking U.S. dollars. $20 USD per hour is not going to get you a worthwhile employee. For example minimum wage for a warehouse employee in Australia would be $26.70 AUD which is $17.42 in USD. So $20 USD per hour is barely above minimum wage for a warehouse worker in Australia and would not get you somebody reliable and diligent. You would just be hiring mostly dropkicks for $20 USD per hour.

In U.S.A. also $20 USD per hour is mostly not going to get you a diligent, experienced and hardworking warehouse employee. For $20 USD per hour you will be mostly hiring dropkicks and then gaslighting everyone and complaining about how "young people just don't want to work any more." Pay $25 USD per hour plus overtime (and bonuses where warranted) off the bat and you will be able to consistently hire good employees.

Francis K, Dave Ramsey and others like them need to stop being selfish tight arse boomers and actually pay up to get quality employees. Bloody take accountability and don't blame other people because you shot yourself in the foot by being stingy. Entitled boomers.
What’s a “dropkick.”
 
I think sales jobs with a good base salary are the way to go right now.
Absolutely. This might rile some feathers, but the truth is the truth. My two best employees are women over 50 with no kids or man at home. And boy are they loyal. My top sales "lady" is 82 (she's a rare bird with a youthful spirit and doesn't look a day over 70) and Gen Z'ers love her and just hand over their cash to her (because she authentically cares about them and isnt just trying to sell them sh*t). My third best employee is a woman in her mid 30's with several kids at home (she works remotely for me). I pay them $20 an hour plus bonuses based on our sales with the "hand shake" agreement that the more money the corporation makes (i.e. the more money I make), the more money they will make. As a result, they go above and beyond their work duties. Running around doing errands for the business on their days off on their dime and without me asking them to do so (I have to "force" reimbursement upon them). They often show up to work an hour early and stay an hour late without being asked and refusing to allow me to pay them for the extra time (I sneak it in anyhow).

In contrast, because our customer base is 60% Gen Z'ers, I tried for two years employing 5 different Gen Z'ers under the same above paradigm. They were regularly late to work (one girl who worked for me for 3 months was not on time to work once the entire time), always asking to leave early, they were often on their phone, they always needed coddling (if you didn't tell them what to do they just sat there), and did nothing to help the business on their off time (which I would have gladly paid them for). They just seemed depressed and uninterested in life. Now, to be fair, I have recently employeed two non-white Christian boys who I pay $15 an hour flat to (I regularly pay them extra and they are very grateful and astonished) who are sophomores in high school and they are slaying it, and I love these kids as if they were my own, but then again, their job is more "fun" and less demanding than what my old lady work force crushes all day everyday.

And so, the lesson I learned as an employeer in 2024-25... "When seeking hardworking, loyal employees don't sleep on single, empty nester Gen X and Boomer women with a slew of cats at home."
 
Absolutely. This might rile some feathers, but the truth is the truth. My two best employees are women over 50 with no kids or man at home. And boy are they loyal. My top sales "lady" is 82 (she's a rare bird with a youthful spirit and doesn't look a day over 70) and Gen Z'ers love her and just hand over their cash to her (because she authentically cares about them and isnt just trying to sell them sh*t). My third best employee is a woman in her mid 30's with several kids at home (she works remotely for me). I pay them $20 an hour plus bonuses based on our sales with the "hand shake" agreement that the more money the corporation makes (i.e. the more money I make), the more money they will make. As a result, they go above and beyond their work duties. Running around doing errands for the business on their days off on their dime and without me asking them to do so (I have to "force" reimbursement upon them). They often show up to work an hour early and stay an hour late without being asked and refusing to allow me to pay them for the extra time (I sneak it in anyhow).

In contrast, because our customer base is 60% Gen Z'ers, I tried for two years employing 5 different Gen Z'ers under the same above paradigm. They were regularly late to work (one girl who worked for me for 3 months was not on time to work once the entire time), they were often on their phone, they always needed coddling (if you didn't tell them what to do they just sat there), and did nothing to help the business on their off time (which I would have gladly paid them for). They just seemed depressed and uninterested in life. Now, to be fair, I have recently employeed two non-white Christian boys who I pay $15 an hour flat to (I regularly pay them extra and they are very grateful and astonished) who are sophomores in high school and they are slaying it, and I love these kids as if they were my own, but then again, their job is more "fun" and less demanding than what my old lady work force crushes all day everyday.

And so, the lesson I learned as an employeer in 2024-25... "When seeking hardworking, loyal employees don't sleep on single, empty nester Gen X and Boomer women with a slew of cats at home."


Funny because my two best employees are two guys who are significantly older than everyone else, including myself. They see it as a pride thing, they're never going to let anyone call them lazy and they work their asses off to make sure of that they never complain about anything. I pay them well, I let them do their work with trust and I accommodate for whatever they need as they have earned that and I want to make sure they are happy so they never leave. One is my warehouse manager and interestingly enough the other isn't interested in moving up into something else he's happy to just clock in do his job really well and clock out....everyone is different I suppose. The one who is a warehouse manager I tried to spin him off as a partner in another business but he just wasn't cut out for it, some people are made to call the shots and some are made to just do what someone else tells them it is what it is.


My biggest problem employee right now is my cousin, he's young in his mid 20's he's smart and can really get things done when he decides to but I can't get him to show up for work at a decent time to save his life and he's easily distracted. Instead of concentrating on the task at hand he'll jump to ten different things and not get any of them done. I've talked with him so many times about how he's going to earn a reputation of not being reliable and it's going to hurt him in the future, that when he shows up to work at 1pm the day is over and you can't get anything done and he's not a little kid anymore to have the excuse of youth. I'm supposed to be training him to eventually be the administrator of this particular business and give him a partners share but no matter how smart and capable he is it's just not working out and I'm not entirely sure what to do with him at this point. I haven't given up on him and whenever I talk with him he tells me "yea you're right" but it just doesn't change, it's been months.

Oh and just before anyone wants to get cute with ignorance and tell me I should pay him more he's being paid close to 8k a month right now for about 25 hours a week of work and will be making double if he can actually show me that he's worthy of running the business so that I don't have to be there every day and can move on leaving it in his hands.
 
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Oh and just before anyone wants to get cute with ignorance and tell me I should pay him more he's being paid close to 8k a month right now for about 25 hours a week of work and will be making double if he can actually show me that he's worthy of running the business
Sounds like nepotism by the sound of things. You are paying him really well just because he is your cousin meanwhile young guys not related to you working in your warehouse who are probably doing a better job are getting $20 per hour starting wages? $8000 per month literally works out to over $70 per hour for your cousin if he is doing 25 hour work weeks. Meanwhile you somehow cannot afford to cough up more than $20 per hour for other young bucks not related to you just starting off in your warehouse?
 
You're not a business owner, sorry to break it to you but what you're saying is not some grand revelation that hasn't been tried......it doesn't work in the real world it's marxist little kid bullshit it actually makes a lazy entitled employee even more lazy and entitled.
News flash paying employees well straight off the bat has been tried and works really well in the real world.

Hence why Costco is growing faster than Walmart and Kroger and other rivals. If you want to build a sustainable business that will keep growing over the long term you need to pay people well.

Since when is it communism to think that employees should be well paid?
 
rein in that lack of self awareness which seems to be your hallmark before you call someone else entitled.
So apparently you struggle to expand your business for lack of quality employees in the USA where people work harder and longer hours than almost anywhere else in the world and where you have arguably the most skilled labour pool on the planet which is also a large labour pool over 163 million employees in America. But sure lets just blame young people for being lazy instead of you reflecting on your own failures.
 
If they were worth more I would have paid them more instead of getting rid of them, I'm starving for competent employees I would open half a dozen new business ventures tomorrow if I had people to actually run them that that were entitled and lazy.

Nobody owes you anything.
Nobody owes you anything! If you cannot expand your business that is your fault stop trying to pretend everybody is lazy. Clearly you are doing something wrong if you cannot attract and retain sufficient good employees. But I suppose its just easier to gaslight others for your failures. Why don't you take accountability for your failures and try and pay more off the bat, improve working conditions, expand your hiring process to reach more potential employees, etc?
 
Sounds like nepotism by the sound of things. You are paying him really well just because he is your cousin meanwhile young guys not related to you working in your warehouse who are probably doing a better job are getting $20 per hour starting wages? $8000 per month literally works out to over $70 per hour for your cousin if he is doing 25 hour work weeks. Meanwhile you somehow cannot afford to cough up more than $20 per hour for other young bucks not related to you just starting off in your warehouse?

100% it is he's family, i trust him and im grooming him to run the business it's cute how you think that is some kind of "Gotchya". The rest is just more stupid ignorant assumptions.
 
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