The Destruction of Modern Women

Blade Runner said:
The funnier part isn't about what "marriages last" as if all marriages these days aren't questionable. The real issue about the gap is "Does a man get anything, yes anything at all, out of marriage these days?" I fail to see why a man wouldn't at least try to get youth from the girl, given that nothing else either comes commonly, or can be enforced (unlike his funds and earnings).
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I can totally understand where you are coming from, but in my opinion, a Christian marriage should be more about what a man gives than what he gets.
Yes, the raw material does matter but you can only do your part to be faithful to God. What a woman does will of course depend upon your example, but a good marriage is about much more than finding the "least bad option".
In truth, it is about both parties giving 100%, and expecting nothing in return. Only then can you fulfill God's plan for marriage.
 
Northern Pilgrim said:
What a woman does will of course depend upon your example, but a good marriage is about much more than finding the "least bad option".
In truth, it is about both parties giving 100%, and expecting nothing in return.
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"Theoretically," this sounds good on paper and I agree. But "the expecting nothing in return" part is almost a super human feat nowadays as we live in a world of narcissists who put money and things above God. Women are being conditioned to expect a lot from men yet they cannot cook, much less sew. I can do both.

Calisto said:
But when women aren't as willing as before to have children then yes it becomes pointless for the man to marry.
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And then there's this.
 
PurpleUrkel said:
"Theoretically," this sounds good on paper and I agree. But "the expecting nothing in return" part is almost a super human feat nowadays as we live in a world of narcissists who put money and things above God. Women are being conditioned to expect a lot from men yet they cannot cook, much less sew. I can do both.
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You are right brother, it is super human. That's why God gave us His Holy Spirit to help.

I can cook, sew and other things much better than my wife but I don't need to point it out to her or highlight it. It's not her fault that society doesn't place an emphasis on girls learning and practicing those skills.
Most women are generally a lot less inquisitive and don't pursue self development like the men of this forum, but they are just wired fundamentally different. In my opinion they just follow whatever crowd they are around. With how far downhill society has slid, can we really expect anything different?
 
I get it, you are married. I wish you the best. But don't think we're cynical when we're very aware how one must create a narrative given he's taken the nestea plunge. We're more honest, since we have no reason other than to just call it as we see it.

Northern Pilgrim said:
What a woman does will of course depend upon your example, but a good marriage is about much more than finding the "least bad option".
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I agree, but the point is that this can still be out of your control and it is way too easy for a woman to just do whatever she wants, with either no accountability, or worse, being rewarded for bad behavior. This is a society that has rewarded bad behavior for decades; it's nothing new.
Northern Pilgrim said:
Most women are generally a lot less inquisitive and don't pursue self development like the men of this forum, but they are just wired fundamentally different. In my opinion they just follow whatever crowd they are around. With how far downhill society has slid, can we really expect anything different?
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We all agree with this. That doesn't help any man considering marriage though, because if he's honest he also sees the broken society, and your conclusion therefore states that women on average are broken, since they just follow the crowd. It's also interesting because it suggests women have no agency, further supporting the thesis.

My main point is this, you have to bring something, or many things, for me to even consider the risk. That means youth, some beauty, and at least some good behavior. I see very little of this in the modern day, especially in the west.
 
Blade Runner said:
My main point is this, you have to bring something, or many things, for me to even consider the risk. That means youth, some beauty, and at least some good behavior. I see very little of this in the modern day, especially in the west.
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I think I have suggested this before but have you considered choosing the path of chastity? Based on what you have written on here and on the old forums this seems like the best solution for you. It's going to be a battle but I actually think it would still be less stress and tribulation then the next best scenario for you which would be if you got your 20 year old virgin bride.

I actually think even in the unlikely scenario that you did find this girl you would eventually find her extremely irritating to be around after the novelty of her sexual allure and youth wears off. This irritation would actually be more aggravating for you then then the aggravation that would come with living a chaste lifestyle so I actually think remaining single and chaste would bring less negatives then being married for life to the once 20 year old virgin who will then eventually become 30 and then 40 and then 50 but will still remain a woman and hence will maintain all the same womanly qualities you find to be draining to be in the presence of but now she will be without physical and sexual beauty to keep you entranced.

I don't think the "wife goggles" will help you overcome this either since wife goggles usually are developed from building emotional attachment through a long period of time and again, based on you have written about women and their nature it seems like you would find it extremely boring and soul-sucking to be around a woman if you aren't doing something with her where her beauty and youth (which once again, is something she won't have for the majority of the time you are married to her) is involved.

If I was going to call it like I see it, I think even in a society where women were in the situation you think is the ideal (married young with their behaviors being managed by societal standards) you still would not enjoy being married or being around women for an extended amount of time. Hence this is why I think remaining single and chaste would be the best move for you.
 
Wutang said:
you still would not enjoy being married or being around women for an extended amount of time.
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Again I have addressed this point before. This is the setup of modern society. I think in the olden days men spent less time with their wives. They were either busy working or doing things with male friends and relatives. And the women were busy with children and other women (friends and relatives). Even just the classic dinner parties of 50+ years ago where men would hang around with the other men around the barbecue and the women would hang around with the other women and make salad, bake cakes and gossip. etc. Or in other instances where women would bake or knit with their female friends while the gentleman went out to play pool with their friends and drink scotch while having cigars.

I am not saying men never spent time with their wives but the idea that you should be glued to your husband or wife is a relatively modern idea and in m opinion its unhealthy. But unfortunately men no longer have the social networks and camaraderie like in the old days to make it viable to live the old lifestyle and neither do women and so husbands and wives cling to each other.
 
Australia Sucks said:
I am not saying men never spent time with their wives but the idea that you should be glued to your husband or wife is a relatively modern idea and in m opinion its unhealthy. But unfortunately men no longer have the social networks and camaraderie like in the old days to make it viable to live the old lifestyle and neither do women and so husbands and wives cling to each other.
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Sounds like another point in favor for men of certain personality types being better off not getting married.
 
Wutang said:
I don't think the "wife goggles" will help you overcome this either since wife goggles usually are developed from building emotional attachment through a long period of time and again, based on you have written about women and their nature it seems like you would find it extremely boring and soul-sucking to be around a woman if you aren't doing something with her where her beauty and youth (which once again, is something she won't have for the majority of the time you are married to her) is involved.
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No, I'm looking for old school women - perhaps they don't exist. As I've said, the ROI is low in the USA because there are a) too many men - and thus simps, b) too many old women, also crowding everyone out and constantly shrieking/complaining, c) social taboo even if a girl likes you as a young potential woman, her circle and/or parents will block it, and d) the legal aspect is the final boss that makes it all even worse.

I don't actively bang women, by the way, so I'm unsure where you are going with the "chastity" thing.

I don't think posters like yourself are very honest about how bad, or comparatively bad, modern women are to the old women who are still alive and are our mothers and grandmothers. I could be wrong, but I don't meet them and they do basically nothing for men anymore. This forum exists for a reason, or did you forget that? Roosh found God, and presumably he is doing well (best wishes my friend) but that didn't change the reality of how putrid modern women are on average regarding the consideration of marrying them. No, I don't count girls who are "nice" but fat and no one wants to bang. Those are for other fat men or low achievers they either decide to give a chance, or also don't marry due to various reasons.
 
Wutang said:
Sounds like another point in favor for men of certain personality types being better off not getting married.
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I find it funny that you just keep the whole modern/feminist thing going, whether aware or not - you keep blaming men. Who has changed? Again, why are you at the forum and posting if the truth is so hard for you to handle?
 
Blade Runner said:
I don't think posters like yourself are very honest about how bad, or comparatively bad, modern women are to the old women who are still alive and are our mothers and grandmothers. I could be wrong, but I don't meet them and they do basically nothing for men anymore. This forum exists for a reason, or did you forget that? Roosh found God, and presumably he is doing well (best wishes my friend) but that didn't change the reality of how putrid modern women are on average regarding the consideration of marrying them. No, I don't count girls who are "nice" but fat and no one wants to bang. Those are for other fat men or low achievers they either decide to give a chance, or also don't marry due to various reasons.
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Sounds like a good argument for leading a single, chaste life where women simply aren't part of your life and are simply out of sight and out of mind and to instead turn the focus of your life to other areas.
 
Wutang said:
Sounds like a good argument for leading a single, chaste life where women simply aren't part of your life and are simply out of sight and out of mind and to instead turn the focus of your life to other areas.
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Yes, it's an option. The out of sight and out of mind thing is difficult, as you know, even if you are a monk.

You do bring up another commonality though, that is mostly from married people on the forum (I'm not sure if you are): the "just give up" idea of competition without acting like you delight in it. It's quite common around here.
 
Blade Runner said:
I find it funny that you just keep the whole modern/feminist thing going, whether aware or not - you keep blaming men. Who has changed? Again, why are you at the forum and posting if the truth is so hard for you to handle?
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On the contrary, what I am posting is the truth that's hard to handle. In a feminist, modern society like ours the reality is that most men aren't going to be able to find 20 year old virgins. If we add in the requirement that she also be hot then such a woman would have been find to hard even in the good old days. The truth that is going to be hard to hear is that what you are seeking is very difficult to find and if those are your standards and , then you have to be content with never marrying or having children and need to resign yourself to being part of the population decline process. If this community is all about hearing the truth and bearing it no matter how difficult it might be to swallow, then this is something you need to be willing to listen to and take heed of.
 
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Blade Runner said:
You do bring up another commonality though, that is mostly from married people on the forum (I'm not sure if you are): the "just give up" idea of competition without acting like you delight in it. It's quite common around here.
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From what I've seen around here the married guys usually talk about how it's possible to find a woman that takes her face seriously and that the way to find here is to integrate yourself into a church community of some sort. I actually don't really see men here being told that they should consider remaining single. If anything the common advice is to keep trying and praying for a woman to eventually show up. The only post I can find where someone was willing to tell the hard truth that most men aren't going to find their unicorn and they need to deal with that likely reality was this post from scorpion which I am reposting because it contains a message that certain guys need to hear even if it's hard for them to swallow it:

scorpion

Post in thread 'The Destruction of Modern Women'

Blade Runner said:
I think there's a high probability for my skills, trajectory and personality type that in many ways it is a better thing or even a grace or mercy to not be married or have kids
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I honestly don't mean this as a dig, but based on your posting history, I think you'd probably be much happier remaining a bachelor. This also goes for guys like IIMT, Douglas Quaid, Australia Sucks and the other regular contributors to this thread. Even from a historical perspective, marriage was simply not meant for every man, and the modern legal contrivance masquerading as marriage in today's Western...
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And if the response to this is that I'm blaming men as a whole, I will say this is absolutely not the case. Rather I am agreeing with the many posts that have been written to drive home the same point over and over again about how the majority of women today in Western society aren't suitable as wives and that it is our modern culture that has produced these sorts of women. I also think that barring wide societal changes that would be akin to a total revolution, this state of affairs will remain and as individual men we can't do much to change it. However, we can change our own behavior in response to the current state of things and I am suggesting that for a lot of men, especially the types of people we see pop in this thread a lot and have written tons of posts about how much they can't stand interacting with women, that the best solution for them is simply to check out of the dating game in the same way some of the black pilled politics posters have given up on voting and seeking a political solution and are instead just focusing on building up their own lives to survive the coming the storm.

This is not blaming men or trying to white knight for women. Rather it is simply a practical response to something we can't really change, namely the state of women right now. Let's say I agree 100% of the criticisms of women that see on here and I totally think it's a mistake for women to work or go to college or be single past age 22 and that it's a travesty that culture encourages women to make these sort of mistakes and that I fully understand all the hard to swallow red pill knowledge about all of this. How is any of knowledge this going to change anyone's dating situation? Modern women aren't going to change their behavior no matter how much truth and red pills you drop whether it be on this forum or anywhere else. Let's assume they are 100% at fault and all the blame lies with them and the people that have brainwashed them. How does possessing all knowledge that the the blame for the breakdown in romantic relationships is the fault of women change your dating situation? It doesn't at all.

As far as I've seen on this forum, possessing this sort of knowledge hasn't done anything to improve their chances of getting the sort of women they want. I would suggest that if you truly understand red pill truths about women and view society from those lens, then you should be able to swallow yet another red pill and realize that being single and basically doing the MGTOW thing and avoid women as much as possible could be the optimal solution. Yes living a monk-like life would be difficult but I think for a lot of guys here, spending the remainder of their life looking for their unicorn would actually lead to more difficulty and hardships.
 
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Wutang said:
how the majority of women today in Western society aren't suitable as wives
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Again this has already been discussed ad naseum on the forum. 90% of the men on the forum agree the solution is going overseas. Even when you go to a foreign country the percentage of traditional women while higher is still low by historical standards but overall its a much bigger pool and plus your relative wealth and thus social status gets a boost in those countries. A man who is top 20% wealth in the first world could be a top 1% man (wealth wise) in a less wealthy country. When you add these two factors together you still have a somewhat decent chance of finding a marriageable woman in the right country (provided the culture is open to foreigners).

An no the best solution for men on this thread isn't to check out of the dating market its to first stack cash and then go overseas where the odds are better.
 
Australia Sucks said:
Again this has already been discussed ad naseum on the forum. 90% of the men on the forum agree the solution is going overseas. Even when you go to a foreign country the percentage of traditional women while higher is still low by historical standards but overall its a much bigger pool and plus your relative wealth and thus social status gets a boost in those countries. A man who is top 20% wealth in the first world could be a top 1% man (wealth wise) in a less wealthy country. When you add these two factors together you still have a somewhat decent chance of finding a marriageable woman in the right country (provided the culture is open to foreigners).
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I would suggest that even if you found your wife (which is a big if given all the negative experiences you've had so far), you would be miserable and I'm guessing it would be true for the other unicorn wife hunters here as well. Scorpion put it best when he wrote even if the wife hunters actually managed to find wives we would be basically get a new version of this thread only dedicated to the misery of marriage and being stuck around a woman and how to get her to stop being around so much just like the good old days.
 
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Wutang said:
we would be basically get a new version of this thread only dedicated to the misery of marriage
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There are no solutions only trade offs. Ideally you want to trade off one set of problems for a better set of problems. Its like how being poor has its own set of challenges but being rich also has its own problems (women trying to gold dig and divorce rape you, people pretending to be your friends, people trying to sue you, people trying to rob you or kidnap you, people trying to rip you off, etc). However the problems that come with being rich are still better than the problems you have when you are poor therefore if you are poor its still worthwhile trying to become rich. So even if men marry the unicorn and then complain about marriage they will likely still be happier on the whole then the situation they were in prior to marriage.
 
I'm not sure about that. My mother is a pretty old school traditional woman in that she never pursued a career and instead chose to be a full-time house wife when I was younger and only started to work part-time as a baker (very trad wife job) only after her children were older and even then she pretty much was still a full-time mom on top of that. Even someone like her who is all about family and has told me with her very own words "family is the most important thing" has also told me that it's better to be single then to be in a bad marriage despite her deepest wish is for her kids to get married and give her grandchildren.
 
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