Do you know why?
Judoka
Catholic
Mostly brainwashing I would assume.
By someone in particular or is it more emergent/mass delusion?
Blanket statements like “it’s a cult” don’t move the discussion much or help us find truth. How or why it’s a cult, is more helpful.
Are you here to seek truth, or confirm your own beliefs?
Judoka
Catholic
There are influencers but it seems like a mass delusion where a lot of people want to believe that bitcoin will make them rich.
Are you saying that bitcoin is not a cult? It's either a cult or a religion. Which one is it?
It fits the textbook definition of a cult. From Wikipedia:
The word "cult" is derived from the Latin term cultus, which means worship.
Cults are social groups which have unusual, and often extreme, religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs and rituals. Extreme devotion to a particular person, object, or goal is another characteristic often ascribed to cults.
I'm here to provide my opinion on occasion and also to call out misinformation when I see it. Just like yesterday when I corrected you about China buying bitcoin.
Bitcoin in no way meets the definition of a cult, including the wiki definition above. The "cult" FUD has been addressed in this thread extensively.
Bitcoin is not a social group. It is a distributed, open source computer protocol that no single entity can control. Nobody I know "worships" Bitcoin, but many use it and are passionate about the good a truly hard money can do for mankind.
Maybe some people think that, but the people I know, and most of my posts have more to do with freedom.
People think a lot of things will make them rich...
I think it is a cult...I hope it is, an emerging new culture of personal responsibility, discipline, and freedom. I think the people who embrace these specific traits of the cult are the most likely to still have their bitcoin when this cult becomes a new culture.
To some people, discipline, responsibility, reputation, and freedom are "extreme" or "unusual."
Bitcoin brings that to a lot of people, just like the above examples.
The beliefs are different, yes, but not necessarily negative.
I can't prove that China is buying bitcoin. It seems logical to me that they are buying or mining it, but I do not have any direct evidence of that. It doesn't matter much if they are. I should have preceded the statement with 'I assume X is happening because Y', sometimes I skip such statements in the interest of brevity.
My main point was the de-dollarization of reserve assets was not going to cause a decline in the dollar DXY compared to other fiat. They logically will not be buying GBP or JPY as they sell USD - do I have a source on that? No I don't.
Kaspa is definitely a cult .
Bitcoin is not really a cult or a religion, it's more of a mind virus, very similar to social justice, transgenderism, COVID hysteria, climate change, and other contagious social belief systems. Maxis literally talk about getting "orange pilled" and seeing the world entirely different after that, as if the scales have been lifted from their eyes. And just like a climate change zealot comes to view everything in the world through the lens of climate change, so the Bitcoin zealot views the world through the lens of Bitcoin. Our own @chance vought is the perfect example of this phenomenon, where an intelligent and otherwise normal person becomes completely obsessed with an idea and it radically alters their perception of the world.
What's more interesting to me is the question of what makes individuals susceptible to various types of mind viruses, and whether there are different avenues of susceptibility. Bitcoin, for example, seems to prey on idealism and greed. If you have a high amount of one or the other in your personality, you are probably more susceptible to the Bitcoin mind virus. There also seems to be a strong undercurrent of arrogance and a burning desire to, essentially, revenge themselves upon the non-believers among Bitcoin maxis (their revenge, in this case, will be executed by becoming fabulously wealthy and lording themselves over the non-HODLers in the future). These types are clearly visible in this thread, with chance vought expressing idealism, @Australia Sucks representing pragmatic greed, and @Blade Runner voicing a sort of vindictive fury coupled with extreme arrogance and a desire to punish those he views as wrong/evil. All have different psychologies and motivations for HODLing Bitcoin, but all fell victim to the same mind virus.
Bitcoin is really the ultimate memecoin, in the sense that it is just an idea shared by those who own it. The idea, or meme, in this case, is that there is something special about Bitcoin that makes it valuable. That's it. That's all Bitcoin is: a shared idea, a shared delusion, really, because even maxis must admit that at root the Bitcoin network is just a decentralized ledger. But they believe that there is something extremely valuable in that, in just the same way that many insane people believe that men can become women, or that the Earth is soon going to become uninhabitable due to climate change. And these beliefs can become so intense that they dictate behavior. A transgender zealot will happily remove his own genitals, a climate change zealot will sell his car and ride a bike everywhere, and a Bitcoin zealot will trade his life savings for entries on a distributed spreadsheet. And so it goes.
What's more interesting to me is the question of what makes individuals susceptible to various types of mind viruses, and whether there are different avenues of susceptibility. Bitcoin, for example, seems to prey on idealism and greed. If you have a high amount of one or the other in your personality, you are probably more susceptible to the Bitcoin mind virus. There also seems to be a strong undercurrent of arrogance and a burning desire to, essentially, revenge themselves upon the non-believers among Bitcoin maxis (their revenge, in this case, will be executed by becoming fabulously wealthy and lording themselves over the non-HODLers in the future). These types are clearly visible in this thread, with chance vought expressing idealism, @Australia Sucks representing pragmatic greed, and @Blade Runner voicing a sort of vindictive fury coupled with extreme arrogance and a desire to punish those he views as wrong/evil. All have different psychologies and motivations for HODLing Bitcoin, but all fell victim to the same mind virus.
Bitcoin is really the ultimate memecoin, in the sense that it is just an idea shared by those who own it. The idea, or meme, in this case, is that there is something special about Bitcoin that makes it valuable. That's it. That's all Bitcoin is: a shared idea, a shared delusion, really, because even maxis must admit that at root the Bitcoin network is just a decentralized ledger. But they believe that there is something extremely valuable in that, in just the same way that many insane people believe that men can become women, or that the Earth is soon going to become uninhabitable due to climate change. And these beliefs can become so intense that they dictate behavior. A transgender zealot will happily remove his own genitals, a climate change zealot will sell his car and ride a bike everywhere, and a Bitcoin zealot will trade his life savings for entries on a distributed spreadsheet. And so it goes.
Yes, it is a mind virus. Writing and arithmetic and money are all mind viruses. Constructive, collaborative mind viruses. They allow humans to communicate many things, ideas, and in the case of money, a distributed worldwide computer using all of humanities collective intelligence.
Double entry accounting made organization and cooperation more efficient. Bitcoin is triple entry accounting (adding a timestamp to every entry.).
I see the point you're trying to make, and it has some validity, but you can't properly call most of the things you listed mind viruses on the order of Bitcoin. For example, neither reading nor mathematics require the shared belief and cooperation of other people in order to provide value. Money, on the other hand, would qualify as a mind virus, as would the entire concept of laws that regulate human behavior, which eventually give way to government.
The error in this line of thinking is assuming that an idea - in this case, "triple entry accounting", which may or may not have some sort of value, cannot be improved upon and replicated. If Bitcoin truly is revolutionary, then it cannot exist in stasis in its current, original form. All useful ideas and technologies evolve over time, and truly revolutionary, world-changing ideas/technologies/memes/mind viruses, being the most useful and therefore widely used of all, evolve faster and become more and more refined over time.
If Bitcoin cannot evolve, it will die. And given that the maxis have dedicated themselves to staunchly opposing any evolution in Bitcoin (see: BCH), its death is a certainty, and only a matter of time and circumstance.
It can and is evolving. Just like mathematics or language: the basic rules stay the same, but calculus is built on the foundation, "blue" is added to the vocabulary...lightning and cashu are built atop bitcoin.
Strategy is building a new bond market, on bitcoin
calculus does not obsolete arithmetic
bitcoin can only happen once: before anyone knew what it was or if it could be valuable - everything else that followed cannot be fairly discovered and is a scam - everything that followed bitcoin collapses in value against bitcoin
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You're making some really good points on the subject of bitcoin (as usual)... However, I feel like bitcoin will be around for awhile and quite possibly is here to stay (I just think that the price will tank one day). Bitcoin is an interesting idea and it has been an interesting ride, but at the end of the day it is just money. And ultimately there is nothing special about money except that it often brings out the worst in people. Greed is really something to behold in the human spirit. It's quite disturbing actually.
Personally, I am trying to let go of money but it is a difficult process because I've noticed that the more I let go of my desire for money the more money I start making, which pulls me right back into a cycle of greed and desire and "working more." It's a brutal and viscious cycle and this is what makes me think that it is demonically inspired. And that is why when I see this, "Bitcoin is money and money can make you free!" that I feel a need to speak up and push back a bit. When they interview people in hospice who are on deaths door virtually none of them ever speak of money except by saying that they spent too much time working for it and thinking about it and not enough time enjoying their hobbies and loved ones. People who are about to die always regret working too much and not spending enough time stopping and smelling the roses. The theme being that, "The best things in life are free" (note to self).
I don't think "cult" is the right word because cults are worthless, you can actually see some positive gain to your life from btc I know I have.
I think it's just something that some people have latched on to and that combined with the monetary aspect of it, and what that brings, makes some people dive into it really hard and see it as something that others don't.
It's just human nature, then add the monetary aspect and it compounds it exponentially.
I think it's just something that some people have latched on to and that combined with the monetary aspect of it, and what that brings, makes some people dive into it really hard and see it as something that others don't.
It's just human nature, then add the monetary aspect and it compounds it exponentially.
Fiat money is corrupted - greed can be used to gain resources for oneself at the expense of others (counterfeiting being but one of infinite examples - legally indulged in by governments and banks, robbing everyone blind.)
Bitcoin is incorruptible money (even if you don’t believe that now, let’s say that it is, as a thought experiment). Greed (the kind that hurts other people) is far less profitable than cooperation. Fulfilling the needs of others is the only way to obtain bitcoin…self-interest and helping others become aligned, not opposed. You can see this already in the bitcoin world with reputation and quality being immensely important to those of us on a bitcoin standard.
Working, if you are helping others get what they want, is not evil - it’s not a zero sum game. You are making the world better. Sometimes helping people is direct, and sometimes incredibly indirect, but as long as you feel fulfilled in what you are doing, I think that is a good sign that you are doing right.
Spending time with loved ones is important, and something bitcoin helps with - I am spending more time at home than I ever have, and have cut my hours by 20%
Firstly I have addressed the first point multiple times. Peter Thiel addressed this concept in his book zero to one. A new technology has to be an order of magnitude superior to displace an existing technology due to inertia, sunk costs, switching costs, marketing, habit, etc. This is even more true when network effects are a key factor. Something else has to be not just better than Bitcoin in needs to be massively better (at least 10 times better) to replace Bitcoin. So far nothing fits the bill. Some cryptos are faster than Bitcoin or more anonymous but at the expense of network security or decentralization, etc. Could something be invented 100 years from now that blows Bitcoin out of the water? Maybe. Is that a valid reason not to own Bitcoin today when there is nothing superior on the horizon? Absolutely not.
As for Bitcoin evolving there is some tweaking around the edges but as Chance pointed out already most of the evolution is happening in the Bitcoin supporting ecosystem rather than Bitcoin itself. There has already been huge innovation in the Bitcoin ecosystem in the last 10 years and that will only accelerate in the next 10 years.
Funnily enough I don't necessarily disagree with your characterization. "Number go up" is as good a reason to own Bitcoin as any.
You have to look at the incentives. There is every incentive in the world for the Bitcoin price to go higher. What you personally think of Bitcoin doesn't really matter. What matters is what the people with money think of Bitcoin. Donald Trump and his family and associated companies own a lot of Bitcoin as does Howard Lutnik as does Scott Bessant and plenty of other people in the Trump cabinet. They have every incentive to try and pump the Bitcoin price higher by every means possible (regulatory changes, the government buying Bitcoin, etc). There are many billionaires who also own Bitcoin. Elon Musk indriectly (Tesla has a meaningful Bitcoin position), Grant Cardone, Brain Armstrong, Hugo Salinas, Paul Tudor Jones, Ray Dalio, Tim Draper, CZ, the Winklevoss Twins and many others.
They all have an incentive to use their influence to try and get the Bitcoin price to go higher. A significant percentage of congress now owns crypto. Furthemore politcial influence on crypto is assymetrically positive. People who own Bitcoin want the Bitcoin price to go higher and will vote against anyone anti-bitcoin whereas people who don't own Bitcoin generally do not care about it either way and are indifferent if the Bitcoin price rises. These people will not vote against someone just for being pro crypto and pro Bitcoin.
Blackrock and Vanguard etc all make money from higher Bitcoin prices. The higher the Bitcoin price goes the more money in Bitcoin ETFs the more fees they collect from the ETFs.
Again it doesn't matter what you think. A flood of money is coming into Bitcoin. According to Gallup polls 14% of American adults currently own cryptocurrency. Another 18% of Americans are open to buying crypto currency with 4% of respondents planning to buy cryptocurrency in the near future. A report published by Ernst and Young in January 2025 found that 59% of institutional investors plan to invest 5% or more of their assets under management in cryptocurrency this year.
I just think its fairly clear at this point what the Bitcoin price trajectory is going forward.
In nearly every way, the base layer of bitcoin is perfect money, at least as perfect as man can engineer. There is only one shortcoming, which I will list at the end.
Absolute scarcity - it is the only thing known that is, except for an individual’s life/time on Earth. Much better to measure human time with something scarce, than with something infinite. It makes economic calculation and even more importantly planning for the future, better, more accurate. When your saved life energy (money) is stored in a leaky plastic bucket, you don’t know when or if you can slow down and spend time with your loved ones. Bitcoin gives you the time when your life energy is stored in an impenetrable ball of energy. Many are dreaming and planning legacies far beyond our lives on Earth - houses that last centuries, orchards and permaculture pastures that won’t be in full production for 100 years.
They are not thinking this way just because of wealth - much of the time, they aren’t paying someone to do the hard work. This dude is building a house with the materials on his land and his bare hands.
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The only shortcoming of bitcoin: the 10 minute block time. If humanity becomes interplanetary, it will be too short to interoperate with Mars. That will be centuries from now, if at all. At that time, it would probably be beneficial to change the consensus rules of bitcoin, or figure out a way to do it - people are already thinking about this problem though, which is telling about how future oriented some bitcoiners are.
The problem is that we can verify that it has made people rich or wealthy already, this is known, thus negating your point entirely. How can one be deluded when we can point to a reality you seem to deny? People don't have to believe anything, they already know it.
Your thought process could label Christianity as a "mind virus". It requires the cooperation of others, and includes believing in things that were revealed to others, that one trusts. BTC can be forensically verified and doesn't require trust at all. One need not even appeal to metaphysics.
I have no desire to punish, since I won't even be involved in said punishment, again negating any point there. I warn that those that can't open their minds and temper their egos will pay a heavy price. And they will.
Why would I not use the gifts I have been bestowed to make money? What I do with that money will then be my test, and judgment, of course. I don't think there is a human alive that doesn't want to be successful in making money, or would thwart his own hard work and focus to obtain it, as long as it is justly obtained/attained. And this is.
Yes, but as I said above, Christianity does by definition. But we don't talk about it that way, here, because we shouldn't. Your pointing out realities of life that shouldn't be separated by their parts. It is what gets Urkel into trouble by always claiming money is bad, not the devotion or attachment to money, the real issue.
The important point. This can't be stressed enough. At this point, even if you argue with its characteristics, it's obvious where it's going - even Urkel is admitting he sees the writing on the wall. As a result, continuing to argue against it is just pure ego, and all of the claims against me, AS, Chance, etc are just spitting into the wind. They get mad at us for just recognizing what's going on. We are trying to inform and warn everyone where this train is going. It's the essence of irony that others won't listen AND get mad at us for trying to help them.