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In the US we are given the choice of the lesser of two evils. Is it not a sin to give your approval (vote) to the smallest of sin?
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Deleted member 378
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Regardless of who you vote for you are giving your approval for war on innocents, global promotion of sexual deviancy, torture, etc. I quit voting because I refuse to give my approval. Your vote is your consent
Paul says whatever is not of faith is sin. If you believe your vote gives sanction to evil then you shouldn't vote. It's a matter of individual conscience.
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Deleted member 378
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I don’t. That’s why I broach the question here. Make people think about what they as Christians are giving approval to. Casting their lot so to speak.
A thief breaks into your house and attacks your family with a deadly weapon. It is a sin to fail to defend your family. It is a sin to kill a fellow human made in the image of God. Should we abstain from taking any actions because both would be sinful?
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Deleted member 378
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Neither of your “what ifs” have bearing on the topic.
Okay so you didn't answer my question. Let me explain the relevance. As fallen humans living in a fallen world we may be confronted with situations where we cannot take a perfectly holy action, yet we still must use our discernment to act in a way that will best conform with our Godly duties. One example is being forced to kill another human to protect innocents. Another would be to vote for a politician who may be sinful, corrupt, not a man of God, etc., but yet who will potentially lead our nation to be less harmful of an environment for our children and future generations, not to mention being less likely to slaughter innocents around the globe, than the alternative candidate. That potential is worth the price of casting a vote, which is nothing more than what it is, and is not endorsing your voted candidate as being a holy man or savior.
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Deleted member 378
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We shall have to agree to disagree. Voting for evil is consenting to it to me. Killing a murderous intruder to protect your family is something thrust upon you with seconds to act, you don’t have months to think about it.
I've been struggling with this as I get older. I'm convinced there are no genuine or "clean" officials within the upper echelons of government, those have been weeded out or remain at the local level. They're only permitted to make it so far while those who are at the top have been bought and paid for. So who do I vote for? The Israeli owned candidate who wants to kill babies or the one who doesn't?
I'm very jaded with the entire process and fully believe my vote counts for nothing, but I agree with @Iacobus in that, we're not voting for a savior or even someone who has any morals whatsoever. These are the choices that we have so might as well try and slow the collapse of the country by a few years. Our hands are tied but, even if we are voting for the lesser of two evils, we can at least say we did what we could, barring running for office ourselves.
I'm very jaded with the entire process and fully believe my vote counts for nothing, but I agree with @Iacobus in that, we're not voting for a savior or even someone who has any morals whatsoever. These are the choices that we have so might as well try and slow the collapse of the country by a few years. Our hands are tied but, even if we are voting for the lesser of two evils, we can at least say we did what we could, barring running for office ourselves.
All men are flawed.
If you extrapolate the sin and complicity argument, then you should completely remove yourself from the world and go live in a cave like an ascetic.
If you don't vote, even if it's an imperfect situation, you're endorsing the outcome also.
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Deleted member 378
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I’m 62 and have been fighting with this since I did vote for Trump in 2016. I wasn’t a practicing Christian then much less an Orthodox one. Now I only vote in parish elections. I don’t care who runs for what as I believe any with aspirations for DC are evil.
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Deleted member 378
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So if I don’t vote it’s still my fault? Mental gymnastics brother
I agree with @Iacobus as well. To say that voting for the lesser evil makes us complicit is unrealistic. We live in a fallen world, and can't avoid interacting with it. Does shopping at the lesser of two evil grocery store chains make us complicit with their corporate deeds? You have to buy food, and there are no pure alternatives. Some off grid homesteaders may be able to barter with their neighbors for most of their needs, but this is rarely doable, and even those people have to buy some goods from globohomo.
I think this is a fair parallel with voting. We can't not live in this world. We must do what good we can. We should choose better stores and products to the degree that we can.
Likewise, more restrictions on abortion, more freedom to home school, fewer foreign wars; these are real differences. I would say we have a duty to engage in the political system and vote, to at least go what good we can.
I think this is a fair parallel with voting. We can't not live in this world. We must do what good we can. We should choose better stores and products to the degree that we can.
Likewise, more restrictions on abortion, more freedom to home school, fewer foreign wars; these are real differences. I would say we have a duty to engage in the political system and vote, to at least go what good we can.
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Deleted member 378
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Then I shall end it here.
I highly encourage thinking about such a home invasion scenario in advance so that if the day ever comes, God forbid, you will be prepared to take action. But if you're arguing that the difference is the amount of time to think about it...
Let's say you're living in an imaginary little city-state and you have the choice between voting between two leaders. Leader A says he will make sure that all children are taught about being gay and changing genders as soon as they are old enough to read, and resources relating to sex and fornication will be freely provided to them, as well as access to medical services for changing their gender. Questioning the legitimacy of LGBT and trans ideology will be grounds for imprisonment under hate crimes. He also wants to send funding, weapons and support to a foreign nation who is genociding a local population. His supports are rabid, large in number and will certainly turn out in force at the polling booth.
Leader B says that he will prohibit all of the above and make sure that parents are in control of their children's education and that teaching children about sex, sodomy, fornication, etc will be illegal. And he will ensure we do not go to war or support genocide of innocents. But the candidate has a history of adultery, doing shady business deals, and he has been known to flake on his statements and be tightknit with characters who can only be described as gangsters. All in all it's clear he's not a man of God and is a greater sinner than the average Joe.
The election is forecast to be extremely close and down to the wire. You have two children ages 3 years old and 6 years old, you can't afford private school and you can't homeschool due to needing to work to put food on the table.
The scenario is the same as the thief entering your home on a larger scale. If you vote for leader B, you may not come out blameless, and things may not materialize in the way you'd hoped. If you attack the thief, you may not subdue him and you may lose your own life, or it's even possible that there's some massive misunderstanding causing you to misinterpret the situation.
Abstaining is still a choice. If you abstain, you may very well be held accountable by God for your failure to even attempt to protect innocents. I totally understand where you're coming from as it was my exact (albeit non-Christian) position during the 2016 election. But you are putting a kind of theoretical attempt to remove yourself from any connection to sin, while denying the reality of the world that we live in.
I would highly recommend the book "On Resistance to Evil by Force" by Ivan Ilyin to you or any Christians grappling with questions like these, if you haven't checked it out already.
Edit: just saw that this debate was kinda getting shut down, forgive me for my intense/vigorous replies, it's a topic that hits close to home for me.
The question you should be asking yourself is why you are even voting anymore if you understand that regardless of who wins in an election in your country, evil wins.
Refuse to play the game any longer.
Refuse to play the game any longer.
Actually when you pay your taxes you give them more than consent, you also give them power in the form of money. Yet Christ told us to pay the tax. Thus voting which is 10x less than paying your taxes is trivial by comparison and may actually help change evil system we are forced to pay into.