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Video Gaming Critical Discussion

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Here’s a thread to talk about gaming in a more philosophical sense, including criticism, history, general industry trends and news, and other subjects. Specific discussion of games, what game you’re playing now, etc. can go in the other gaming thread.
 
Here’s a thread to talk about gaming in a more philosophical sense, including criticism, history, general industry trends and news, and other subjects. Specific discussion of games, what game you’re playing now, etc. can go in the other gaming thread.

Good idea to start this, and now have option to post in either/or. I expect I will post in both, as I understand that there really is two sides here.
 
In past years, I played a lot of video games. I put hundreds of hours, even 1000s into playing Civilization 2 and 3, and Diablo and Diablo 2. It took 100s of hours playing the civilization games to be able to play well on the hard difficulty settings. I tried out many civilizations to play their unique special traits. I tried different map layouts. Likewise in the Diablo games, I tried all the player types, and tested a variety of character development strategies. Leaping Barbarian, Spinning Barbarian, Cold and Poison based Rogue, etc.

However, I am not willing to invest 100s of hours to learn a new game. I've basically lost interest in gaming completely, even though I remember being so absorbed I couldn't wait to get home and play more.
 
I've sunk 1000s of hours into games; mostly competitive RTS and FPS. I have nothing to show for it but diminished focus and poor social skills.

Put the controller down.

I know I've said this before and I faced criticism much in the same way weed smokers would criticize me when I attacked their habit (of which I was once one myself).

Video games produce dopamine for nothing and wear out your reward circuitry. You may as well have a bowl cut and garlic breath when you tell a woman you're a gamer.

Edit: The same goes for social media, youtube, etc. I still spend way too much time online, so I'm not saying this as someone with a superiority complex.
 
In past years, I played a lot of video games. I put hundreds of hours, even 1000s into playing Civilization 2 and 3, and Diablo and Diablo 2. It took 100s of hours playing the civilization games to be able to play well on the hard difficulty settings. I tried out many civilizations to play their unique special traits. I tried different map layouts. Likewise in the Diablo games, I tried all the player types, and tested a variety of character development strategies. Leaping Barbarian, Spinning Barbarian, Cold and Poison based Rogue, etc.

However, I am not willing to invest 100s of hours to learn a new game. I've basically lost interest in gaming completely, even though I remember being so absorbed I couldn't wait to get home and play more.

I've sunk 1000s of hours into games; mostly competitive RTS and FPS. I have nothing to show for it but diminished focus and poor social skills.

Put the controller down.

I know I've said this before and I faced criticism much in the same way weed smokers would criticize me when I attacked their habit (of which I was once one myself).

Video games produce dopamine for nothing and wear out your reward circuitry. You may as well have a bowl cut and garlic breath when you tell a woman you're a gamer.

Edit: The same goes for social media, youtube, etc. I still spend way too much time online, so I'm not saying this as someone with a superiority complex.

For those of you who quit gaming what do you guys do now instead? On a rainy day after finishing your work, your chores, your exercise, what is it that you do in your down time? Because I quit video games 10 years ago to "self-improve" and it did not result in much except burn out and more time spent Internet browsing.
 
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For those of you who quit gaming, what do you guys do now instead? On a rainy day after finishing your work, your chores, your exercise, what is it that you do in your down time?

Because I quit video games 10 years ago to "self-improve" and it did not result in much, except burn out.
At the time I fell off gaming, I had a new job with a higher level of creative engagement than I previously had, which made it easy to focus on work. Over time, I got burned out on work, but I never wanted to spend 100s of hours mastering a newer game. I would read, hang out with friends, go out to bars, go four wheeling. I still had to work a lot, so these activities were enough to keep me busy.

Now my workload is more manageable. I go to church and bible study several times a week. I've cut the drinking way back. I'm looking to engage in some other hobbies, such as camping. I'm really not attracted to games anymore now that I stopping playing a number of years ago.
 
For those of you who quit gaming what do you guys do now instead? On a rainy day after finishing your work, your chores, your exercise, what is it that you do in your down time? Because I quit video games 10 years ago to "self-improve" and it did not result in much except burn out and more time spent Internet browsing.

I stopped gaming from 2012-2018 and during that time I mostly read forums and blogs about Game and politics obsessively as well as watching YouTube. I ended up burning out hard because I didn't allow myself any real leisure time, I was always trying to even spend my downtime learning new things.

Nowadays I play videogames again mostly co-op, and try to balance that time against time spent on my own projects as well as reading news and forums. My life feels much lower stress and more sustainable now, though I will admit it can sometimes be a challenge to balance the time I want to allocate to everything.
 
ban.jpeg

I'm in favor of a ban.
 
For those of you who quit gaming what do you guys do now instead? On a rainy day after finishing your work, your chores, your exercise, what is it that you do in your down time? Because I quit video games 10 years ago to "self-improve" and it did not result in much except burn out and more time spent Internet browsing.
I quit them 2 years ago myself, but now I just watch YouTube vids instead. Might as well go back to playing games...
 
I tried playing Red Dead Redemption 2 again recently. I quickly came to the realisation that it’s an utterly tedious experience, even if visually impressive. Why is my horse dirty? Why do I have to actually watch Arthur clean it? Why does he have to pick up every single individual item I’m looting? Attention to detail is nice, but not when it gets in the way of fun. Why do I have to tap a button to fix the wheel on a wagon? Who thought this was a good idea?! Just have a cutscene and cut to them having fixed the wheel because nobody wants to be forced to play such inanity.

I remember the part of the game where you have to slowly carry lumber and build a fence. GOTY.

Every single mission consists of riding on a horse listening to dialogue (written by people who think they are Tarantino) between characters, then going somewhere and shooting everything up. Sometimes you have to do some sort of original task prior to shooting everything up. The gunplay is also too easy, there are a variety of weapons but none of them are more effective than aiming your pistol and flicking up on the control stick to pop a headshot every single time.

The other problem, which plagues many games, is the disconnect between total player freedom and a set story the developers want to tell about a character. It doesn’t gel when Arthur attempts to take the moral high ground in a scene, when ten minutes prior he was engaging in the kind of maniacal, sadistic slaughter that would be seared into the collective memory of the surrounding population for generations.

You’re playing as Arthur Morgan, a character with his own pre-determined personality, beliefs and experience. I wonder whether limiting the actions you can take as a player would better serve a more consistent narrative? Depending on how you play the game, there can be a real disconnect between Arthur Morgan as conceived by Rockstar, and Arthur Morgan as formed by the player which can make the story feel a bit compartmentalised from the gameplay. I’m not a writer, but I wonder if there could be some merit and the player simply not being able to impeach upon the set morals or beliefs or a character?

The story in RDR 2 was certainly engaging enough for me to play all the way through it the first time, and it’s only on a replay that these issues stuck out for me. When you know what happens, you are less forgiving to just how boring everything else is.

It reminds me of the issues with games like Fallout 3, which hilariously boasted a “complex system of moral choice” but is a game in which you can massacre a town, and have everything be forgotten within 3 in-game days, and wrestle with the moral-quandary of whether to detonate a nuclear bomb in a town full of innocent people or to just… not do that. I guess it just bothers me when modern video games boast about “immersion” but then are filled with the most jarring, immersion-breaking moments. There’s a mission in RDR2 where you participate in a massive shootout through an entire town, and minutes later you can stroll through the streets consequence-free. It’s so incongruent.

If developers were brave enough to tell the player “no” then we could have real immersion. A game where your choices, or how you conduct a certain mission means that you are barred from content. Arthur Morgan should have real problems returning to St Denis after shooting more than 100 people in the streets. Nowadays “immersive” means a complex system of equine-care and being able to watch it do a poo in real-time, all while being able to placate the father of the man you just skinned alive with a Mars Bar.

Additionally, although it’s just a game, since becoming Christian I find murder being so casual a little strange in these big open-world Rockstar games. It’s a missed opportunity for developers also, because you could give the player more options on how to navigate different situations, thereby giving the guns-blazing option real, serious consequences and making the game world and it’s NPCs more impactful. Again, I’m reminded of TLoU 2 hilariously trying to teach us something about vengeance, when, prior to reaching that point the player has been forced to deal out endless, indiscriminate and troublingly-animated death to all those who cross your path.

I think games do present the possibility of telling stories in an interesting and unique way, but I think the people writing triple AAA games are either retards or subversives.
 
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I tried playing Red Dead Redemption 2 again recently. I quickly came to the realisation that it’s an utterly tedious experience, even if visually impressive. Why is my horse dirty? Why do I have to actually watch Arthur clean it? Why does he have to pick up every single individual item I’m looting? Attention to detail is nice, but not when it gets in the way of fun. Why do I have to tap a button to fix the wheel on a wagon? Who thought this was a good idea?! Just have a cutscene and cut to them having fixed the wheel because nobody wants to be forced to play such inanity.

I remember the part of the game where you have to slowly carry lumber and build a fence. GOTY.

Every single mission consists of riding on a horse listening to dialogue (written by people who think they are Tarantino) between characters, then going somewhere and shooting everything up. Sometimes you have to do some sort of original task prior to shooting everything up. The gunplay is also too easy, there are a variety of weapons but none of them are more effective than aiming your pistol and flicking up on the control stick to pop a headshot every single time.

The other problem, which plagues many games, is the disconnect between total player freedom and a set story the developers want to tell about a character. It doesn’t gel when Arthur attempts to take the moral high ground in a scene, when ten minutes prior he was engaging in the kind of maniacal, sadistic slaughter that would be seared into the collective memory of the surrounding population for generations.

You’re playing as Arthur Morgan, a character with his own pre-determined personality, beliefs and experience. I wonder whether limiting the actions you can take as a player would better serve a more consistent narrative? Depending on how you play the game, there can be a real disconnect between Arthur Morgan as conceived by Rockstar, and Arthur Morgan as formed by the player which can make the story feel a bit compartmentalised from the gameplay. I’m not a writer, but I wonder if there could be some merit and the player simply not being able to impeach upon the set morals or beliefs or a character?

The story in RDR 2 was certainly engaging enough for me to play all the way through it the first time, and it’s only on a replay that these issues stuck out for me. When you know what happens, you are less forgiving to just how boring everything else is.

It reminds me of the issues with games like Fallout 3, which hilariously boasted a “complex system of moral choice” but is a game in which you can massacre a town, and have everything be forgotten within 3 in-game days, and wrestle with the moral-quandary of whether to detonate a nuclear bomb in a town full of innocent people or to just… not do that. I guess it just bothers me when modern video games boast about “immersion” but then are filled with the most jarring, immersion-breaking moments. There’s a mission in RDR2 where you participate in a massive shootout through an entire town, and minutes later you can stroll through the streets consequence-free. It’s so incongruent.

If developers were brave enough to tell the player “no” then we could have real immersion. A game where your choices, or how you conduct a certain mission means that you are barred from content. Arthur Morgan should have real problems returning to St Denis after shooting more than 100 people in the streets. Nowadays “immersive” means a complex system of equine-care and being able to watch it do a poo in real-time, all while being able to placate the father of the man you just skinned alive with a Mars Bar.

Additionally, although it’s just a game, since becoming Christian I find murder being so casual a little strange in these big open-world Rockstar games. It’s a missed opportunity for developers also, because you could give the player more options on how to navigate different situations, thereby giving the guns-blazing option real, serious consequences and making the game world and it’s NPCs more impactful. Again, I’m reminded of TLoU 2 hilariously trying to teach us something about vengeance, when, prior to reaching that point the player has been forced to deal out endless, indiscriminate and troublingly-animated death to all those who cross your path.

I think games do present the possibility of telling stories in an interesting and unique way, but I think the people writing triple AAA games are either retards or subversives.

That's a long winded post.
You could have just said "immersion, I don't like it."

3ded233098842b4df4a5457eaf7d096e.gif
 
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Recently, I removed all PVP games (not including coop) from my accounts. When I say removed, I don't mean uninstalled, I mean removed. On Steam, you can go to your product support page and have games permanenetly removed from your account without submitting a ticket or anything. I also had a few PVP games on my Battlenet account, however you cannot remove games like you can on Steam, so I had to straight up delete my Bnet account, which meant I lost access to a few other games as well (but nothing noteworthy, just a couple CoD games and Diablo II which I never played anyway).

I had already begun this process two years ago by deleting L4D2 - a game which I thoroughly enjoyed but was a weird crutch for me. I would play it for about 1-2 hrs nearly every evening as part of my "wind down" routine, and it was an oddly weird addiction. I felt uneasy if I didn't play it, and in my limited free time I would always play that instead of trying new games. After deleting that, I felt immensely better which is insane considering the limited time I was playing it, which goes to show that addiction is not just about quantity. The most recent game I removed was Halo MCC, which had slowly began to take on similar role to L4D2. So, I had to completely remove the entire MCC collection, which sucks, but I had thoroughly replayed all the campaigns anyway so I don't really care.

At this point, I don't have any pvp games and it feels amazing. There was something sinister about PvP games for me, whether I played them alone or with friends. It wasn't even the toxicity of players (which doesn't help, but I tended to disable voice chat completely so it wasn't an issue), but the endless novelty and instant gratification was oddly addicting and some games, like TF2, L4D2, Halo, were oddly comforting because I was so damn good at them that it didn't use up too much brainpower to play, like I could zone out.

As of late I've started emulating lots of older games in addition playing or replaying single player games on Steam. Next game I wil Blasphemous out soon as well. Right now I'm emulating Thracia 776 which is a turn based strategy game released on the SNES in 1999 with a really rich story withp olitical intrigue and the main enemy is capturing small children for nefarious purposes, giving you a real sense of justice. It eers a bit on the "weeb" category of JRPGs but is comparitively very tame compared to others in that field.

Anyway, long post I wasn't sure if I should make a topic but if anyone relates i'd love to hear your thoughts. I'll attach a screenshot of all the games I currently have installed and intend to play/replay at some point. There's not a whole lot of newer games I want to try, though I have been meaning to buy Elden Ring, Scorn, Atomic Heart, and a couple others I'm forgetting.
 

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installed and intend to play/replay at some point. There's not a whole lot of newer games I want to try, though I have been meaning to buy Elden Ring
I tried out Elden Ring a little while ago, and I even sank the entirety of one whole weekend's waking hours into it. The game is good, but I would honestly not recommend it.

Before I tried it, I had heard a lot about Elden Ring for a long time, but nearly every time I've tried a game with a lot of hype around it, I've been severely disappointed upon finding out that it's just Reddit-friendly pretentious goyslop (such as NieR and Witcher 3). So I didn't play Elden Ring until an IRL friend recommended it. This one was fortunately not Reddit goyslop at all.

It's not a bad game by any means, it's visually beautiful and the OST is great. I still listen to it frequently despite the fact that I do not plan to ever play the game again. I would call the hype totally justified. The problem I had with it was the gameplay itself. The game is too grindy, too time-consuming, progress is too slow, and frankly, the game is too easy. Once you piece together a decent build, the game becomes laughably easy, and what you're left with is just extremely tedious grind, unless you just use some cheesy borderline exploit you found on YouTube.

I leveled END and STR a bit, randomly stumbled upon a gigantic two-handed greataxe, put on some armor (not enough to fatroll, I don't hate myself), and just like that, I instantly trivialized an unreasonable amount of content. Not even close to the entire game by any means, but enough that I found it strange. I no longer had to think about equipment at all for a very long time, just mindlessly grind runes to upgrade the same two or three stats and the same weapon.

The game is very easy, but progress is so slow and the content is so large that it just feels overwhelming if you're not a highschool kid with all the free time in the world. The whole time I was playing, I couldn't stop thinking, "this is going to take me an entire year to beat, and there are significantly better things I could be doing".

I've played those popular anime mobile games like Blue Archive, and I found them significantly more fun than Elden Ring, despite them taking up only a very small fraction of the amount of my free time that it felt like Elden Ring was demanding if I wanted to see the next pice of content any time soon. I kind of miss playing those games, but they are full of coomer content and I simply cannot reconcile that with my faith.
 
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I tried out Elden Ring a little while ago, and I even sank the entirety of one whole weekend's waking hours into it. The game is good, but I would honestly not recommend it.

Before I tried it, I had heard a lot about Elden Ring for a long time, but nearly every time I've tried a game with a lot of hype around it, I've been severely disappointed upon finding out that it's just Reddit-friendly pretentious goyslop (such as NieR and Witcher 3). So I didn't play Elden Ring until an IRL friend recommended it. This one was fortunately not Reddit goyslop at all.

It's not a bad game by any means, it's visually beautiful and the OST is great. I still listen to it frequently despite the fact that I do not plan to ever play the game again. I would call the hype totally justified. The problem I had with it was the gameplay itself. The game is too grindy, too time-consuming, progress is too slow, and frankly, the game is too easy. Once you piece together a decent build, the game becomes laughably easy, and what you're left with is just extremely tedious grind, unless you just use some cheesy borderline exploit you found on YouTube.

I leveled END and STR a bit, randomly stumbled upon a gigantic two-handed greataxe, put on some armor (not enough to fatroll, I don't hate myself), and just like that, I instantly trivialized an unreasonable amount of content. Not even close to the entire game by any means, but enough that I found it strange. I no longer had to think about equipment at all for a very long time, just mindlessly grind runes to upgrade the same two or three stats and the same weapon.

The game is very easy, but progress is so slow and the content is so large that it just feels overwhelming if you're not a highschool kid with all the free time in the world. The whole time I was playing, I couldn't stop thinking, "this is going to take me an entire year to beat, and there are significantly better things I could be doing".

I've played those popular anime mobile games like Blue Archive, and I found them significantly more fun than Elden Ring, despite them taking up only a very small fraction of the amount of my free time that it felt like Elden Ring was demanding if I wanted to see the next pice of content any time soon. I kind of miss playing those games, but they are full of coomer content and I simply cannot reconcile that with my faith.

What you've described about ER definitely resonates with me, and is something I am starting to hate with modern games, the fact they they're so damn long and don't seem to respect your time. It's even worse when they have endless cutscences and exposition like Starfield, it's almost arrogant for a video game developer to think they can create stories on par with movie or television writers.

I know the market is partly to blame for some of these trends, because low-iq gamers insist that longer games are "better bang for your buck". This is obviously incorrect because it doesn't factor in quality over quantity let alone the replay value of games that can be shorter. The reason shorter games have higher replay value is that they aren't such a massive commitment of your time and energy, and can be beaten in less than a week, or perhaps even a single weekend. Most modern games have too much pointless padding, time wasting, and grinding mechanics while often lacking in soul or polish. I'm much more in favor of shorter, linear games which are very much out of fashion, but I think of games like Metro 2033 or Metroid Fusion, which are 100% linear but have insanely high replay value and are immensely enjoyable prove otherwise. Shorter, linear games don't feel like such a grind and don't make you constantly have to stress out about keeping track of all the side quests and areas you need to keep track of, instead letting you fully immerse yourself in the gameplay and the world in a directed experience that polishes and controls every single experience you have.

This isn't to say the open world format is bad, Metro Exodus and Stalker are great examples. But I think if you're going for this long, open ended format it needs to be top-tier quality without padding or excessive grinding, which 99% of modern games fail to do.
 
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