US Prison Reform

cognitive dissonance 73

cognitive dissonance 73

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The title may sound like some clickbait but it was not meant to be.

I have recently found a documentary "Turned Out: Sexual Assault Behind Bars" directed by Jonathan Schwartz, narrated by Danny Trejo (made in 2003, released in 2004) - a perhaps a bit dated , but it was one of the most disturbing documentary I have seen in a long while. Someone uploaded it into Youtube (it is available to watch for free at the time of writing this post ). (Warning: it contains talks about sexual assault, rape and murder. Also contains foul language). It is a harrowing tale of sexual assault and rape of weaker inmates at the Limestone Correctional Facility in Alabama (mostly by other inmates and sometimes by prison wardens). While a documentary may be edited, rapes and sexual assault are apparently rampant in some US prisons. Not sure what has changed since 2003 when it comes to this problem (in Alabama and elsewhere in the US).

I have read a few studies on this - while the problem is not unique to the US one would think that one of the wealthiest nations on Earth could afford to look after their imprisoned citizens better. Before your say "prisons is supposed to be punishment" - you are right, however, I am sure we both agree that the punishment is the condemned person to be confined withing the walls of the prison for the period of time set by the Criminal Courts. Rape and sexual assault should not be part of that punishment.

I find it sad how the some members of the wider society still joke about this ("if you go to jail, don't drop the soap!"etc)

Considering how easy is to is in certain states to get incarcerated for minor, non-violent crimes - this can affect more people than we think.

Before you start, no, I am not advocating to "abolish jail". Jails, prisons have their purposes. Some convicted criminal do need to be locked up.
But rapes and sexual assault should not be part of the punishment.

Many victims never speak out - there is hard to find exact figures to see the real extent of the problem.

Some claim there is big difference between state and federal jails. Also, some states apparently do more to reduce this problem, others could not care less.

Some say, part of the problem is the US "prison industrial complex" itself . Quiet a few corporations rely on prisoners work - prisoners often paid a pittance for their work (a fraction of what a worker would get for the same work in outside, free world.) Consequently , the governments have not had any real interest in real change.


What are your thoughts?
 
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I absolutely agree the current prison system is abusive towards many criminals. On the one hand, I am not soft on crime, and frankly I would be in favor of executions for a wide range of crimes.

However, for those sentenced to jail, the prison culture and the abuses that take place behind bars are well known and tolerated by the powers that be, when they clearly are unacceptable. Crimes that only barely rise to the level of receiving a jail sentence put convicts in a situation where they get raped and get Hep C or HIV.
 
Kent Hovind, a popular Creationist, was sent to prison for some time (a decade?) because of a tax issue he had. He wrote a book called 'The Kennel' which outlined, through simile, the absolute disgrace our prison system is. Will it ever be reformed? It would probably take generations.
 
Thomas More said:
Crimes that only barely rise to the level of receiving a jail sentence put convicts in a situation where they get raped and get Hep C or HIV.
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Agree. There’s no excuse that we can’t keep this from happening. I’m for extreme tough on crime. This is controversial but can we bring back corporal punishment please? if someone is caught stealing a few cane whacks will get the point across. But sending someone to jail for theft and that happening is pure disproportionate punishment.
 
I think it's an embarrassment to the prison system, the legal system, and the system in general. If you get sent to jail that should be punishment enough. Being raped over and over has never been part of the sentencing process. Judges don't say you're down for 4 years and will be raped too. This is especially true for small offenses, such as weed possession. Being raped especially if you're a male is devasting. I don't know how anyone comes back from something like that.

And, it's no laughing matter either. Naturally, our society doesn't find it appropriate to laugh about a woman being raped, so, what's with this double standard.

Another thing, do you know that if you go to trial there is something like a 99% conviction rate? I've been inculcated into thinking we have a judiciary that ensures individuals receive due process and a timely trial by a jury of their peers. I always thought we at least had our day in court if needed, but, what's come to light is that this is absolutely not the right thing to do. If you're found guilty they give you the maximum sentence, more or less, no matter what.

A 99% conviction rate means anyone who is found innocent is effectively an anomaly in the system (1 out of 100 qualifies as an anomaly). That should disturb you. It's one thing if our law enforcement techniques have become so well refined that once indicted the cops are 99% sure all of the time that this is a bad guy. But, the world isn't that generous, so I doubt it.

Of course, we don't have innocent until proven guilty anyway, that ship sailed a long time ago with things like "me too", or a balanced system either - just ask Dereck Chauvin.
 
The actual documentary (again Warning: contains talks about rape and sexual assault as well as talks about murder. Also contains foul language.) I uploaded the link for ease of reference, if that's ok.:





Below, This is an orientation video from 2015. Apparently all men who were convicted of any crime and were given custodial sentences in the state of New York were shown this orientation video at the time.
(Warning: contains talks about rape and sexual assault.)



You be the judge.
Share your thoughts.
 
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Towgunner said:
I think it's an embarrassment to the prison system, the legal system, and the system in general. If you get sent to jail that should be punishment enough. Being raped over and over has never been part of the sentencing process. Judges don't say you're down for 4 years and will be raped too. This is especially true for small offenses, such as weed possession. Being raped especially if you're a male is devasting. I don't know how anyone comes back from something like that.

And, it's no laughing matter either. Naturally, our society doesn't find it appropriate to laugh about a woman being raped, so, what's with this double standard.

Another thing, do you know that if you go to trial there is something like a 99% conviction rate? I've been inculcated into thinking we have a judiciary that ensures individuals receive due process and a timely trial by a jury of their peers. I always thought we at least had our day in court if needed, but, what's come to light is that this is absolutely not the right thing to do. If you're found guilty they give you the maximum sentence, more or less, no matter what.

A 99% conviction rate means anyone who is found innocent is effectively an anomaly in the system (1 out of 100 qualifies as an anomaly). That should disturb you. It's one thing if our law enforcement techniques have become so well refined that once indicted the cops are 99% sure all of the time that this is a bad guy. But, the world isn't that generous, so I doubt it.

Of course, we don't have innocent until proven guilty anyway, that ship sailed a long time ago with things like "me too", or a balanced system either - just ask Dereck Chauvin.
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Not sure about the case of Dereck Chauvin - I admit I did not follow his trial and the sentencing. (Perhaps I should have).
However, the rest of your comment seem pretty much in line with what I found during my short research. The situation Very is concerning, to say the least.
 
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Wes Watson is pretty illuminating:



I remember him saying how he would wake up each morning, do a bunch of push-ups with his cell mate, scream, "SUPREME WHITE POWER" and that "I'm not racist; that's how it f***ing is, the Aryan Brotherhood controls all of the white prison gangs in California".

If you contrast that with Sam Bankman-Fried... SBF deserves to be imprisoned, but he doesn't deserve to be raped.
 
I remember seeing that docu many years ago. If I ever land in jail in the US I'm not borrowing any soups to put it that way...
Seems that the US prison system is to a large extent a business, and what they sell is psych meds. You put inmates in an environment that breeds "mental" disorders, which by the way says a lot about the real cause of most of these problems, which is an environment that humans are not suited for. In terms of diet, social interaction, (or lack thereof) no contact with nature etc.

It would be better to have shorter sentences and more outdoor hard labour and a much better diet etc, at least for drugs and smaller offences, which is after all the vast majority. Another good prison docu worth a watch...

 
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It's a shame the church could not run the prison system. The bottom line is that people that are justly sent to prison need help or have the line drawn in the sand on a spiritual level to repent. In a Christian world, the prison system would probably be something that attempts to heal the soul and direct them to Christ. Our materialistic society only addresses these issues by materialistic means without consideration for the soul, and while there are some successes, does the system really fix anything?

Most of the successful former prisoner stories I read, are people who had even a sliver of faith in God or some form of repentance in prison and renewed their lives that way.

I always think of the story of Moses the Black, what if the prison system was somehow like a monastery in some form?

 
Didn't know where to put this, since there is no thread dedicated to the topic of pedos and child trafficking. While the death penalty is the correct response, the reality of US prisons is, that pedos most often won't make it to the gallows. There are 2 types of criminals that even other inmates won't tolerate: cannibals and pedos.

 
Prison should be about developing a work ethic (hard labor) lots of exercise, religion, getting off drugs and alcohol, and eating well. Basically it should be an instructional period. The punishment is you lose your freedom and you are on someone else’s clock and are punished harshly when you don't get in line. Wasn’t rehabilitation the original goal of the system?

Instead we get a hole we throw people in, feed them nutraloaf, and they come out even more angry and with connections. Rise repeat.

People tell me “but that’s too mild Kaveman. They need to be punished!” To most people that is a punishment. If you read my description and don’t think it’s a punishment - may I present to you religious life or the priesthood.
 
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KulturedKaveman said:
Prison should be about developing a work ethic (hard labor) lots of exercise, religion, getting off drugs and alcohol, and eating well. Basically it should be an instructional period. The punishment is you lose your freedom and you are on someone else’s clock and are punished harshly when you don't get in line. Wasn’t rehabilitation the original goal of the system?

Instead we get a hole we throw people in, feed them nutraloaf, and they come out even more angry and with connections. Rise repeat.

People tell me “but that’s too mild Kaveman. They need to be punished!” Too most people that is a punishment. If you read my description and don’t think it’s a punishment - may I present to you religious life or the priesthood.
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And other good ideas have been used to the point of corruption. For example "allowing" inmates to reduce their sentence by working at recycling centers or other menial jobs. Seems like a good idea, but with millions of inmates and for-profit prisons, the prison-industrial complex starts to look like the defense industry, begging for more "problems to solve".
 
cosine said:
Wes Watson is pretty illuminating:



I remember him saying how he would wake up each morning, do a bunch of push-ups with his cell mate, scream, "SUPREME WHITE POWER" and that "I'm not racist; that's how it f***ing is, the Aryan Brotherhood controls all of the white prison gangs in California".

If you contrast that with Sam Bankman-Fried... SBF deserves to be imprisoned, but he doesn't deserve to be raped.
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Sam is looking rough..

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LaAguilaNegra said:
Sam is looking rough..

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I see both sides of this. On the one hand, you are right, that he doesn't deserve to be raped, nor does any other prisoner.

However, there's really no way to avoid fact that prison is full of dangerous criminals, and it's impossible to make it safe to be with people like that, unless you put them all in solitary, or have such an overwhelming number of guards they can keep eyes on everybody continuously. Neither is really possible, so the risk of being around a bunch of criminals is an unavoidable issue with prison.


Actually, there is one solution which I think is fair and just. Execute all the dangerous criminals, so only the milder kind are even given prison sentences. Unfortunately for Sam, I think his crime deserves death so he wouldn't find that much of a solution. Funny, I think death is justified for him, but not rape. I guess it's not right for him to be murdered by another inmate either. He should be sentenced to death by the court and killed by an executioner.
 
DanielH said:


Rob Rundo is being held currently without being charged of anything for punching an Antifa 7 years ago. Been in prison a year. Blatant political persecution. Has any Antifa member served more than 1 month in prison/jail for street violence or rioting?
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Reminder that they routinely let black people who commit violent crimes out on bail, and many of them go on to murder other people.

Yet this guy has been battling the federal government for 7 years. They extradited him from Romania to get him in prison. And twice the judge said that the government doesn't have a case.

Even if the government keeps losing, they win so long as Rundo is in prison.

40 years ago Rundo would be walking free without a second thought. Today he's in prison and has no charges against him.

How are things trending? What will things be like in 20 years if nothing happens to correct this?
 
MrRedsquare said:
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Have to watch out for them "White" sex offenders.
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I've noticed cops doing this for decades, and I'm pretty sure it is Red pilled cops doing this so they can put these animals behind bars. If they put down the race of "Black" then activist judges will release these animals back out onto the streets.

Judges only read text, they do not see the pictures generally, so listing it as White means the judge thinks "Oh good, we need more White criminals in jail or else it will make us look bad for imprisoning so many Blacks."

I'm 99% sure the cops are doing this to protect society, so God bless them.
 
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