The Sedevacantist Containment Thread

Let's be clear: sedevacantists are the only Catholics who are faithful to the Catholic Church.

If you accept "Vatican II popes" as real popes, you are bound to deny, in one way or another, things which are proposed by the Church, either in a solemn pronouncement (definitions, condemnations) or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.

Lefebvrists, for instance, must deny the Church her infallible safety (negative infallibility) and say, contrary to Catholic teaching, that submission to the Roman Pontiff is not necessary for salvation.

"Novus Ordo conservatives" are bound to abandon the infallible condemnations contained in the Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX, since Vatican II has promulgated religious liberty as a right, while Pope Pius IX has condemned religious liberty as a heresy.

To accept the papacy of "Vatican II popes" is to believe in the evolution of dogma (a heresy condemned by St. Pius X).

Bergoglio is very clear: "Protestants and Catholics now agree regarding justification" [Full text: Pope Francis’ in-flight press conference from Armenia, Catholic News Agency, June 26, 2016]. That would mean that the Catholic Church has changed the dogmatic teaching of the Council of Trent. So, if Bergoglio is a real pope, the Church is a false religion that changes with time, like any other Protestant sect.

Objectively speaking, you cannot be a Catholic today without being a sedevacantist.
 
Genealogist said:
Let's be clear: sedevacantists are the only Catholics who are faithful to the Catholic Church.

If you accept "Vatican II popes" as real popes, you are bound to deny, in one way or another, things which are proposed by the Church, either in a solemn pronouncement (definitions, condemnations) or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.

Lefebvrists, for instance, must deny the Church her infallible safety (negative infallibility) and say, contrary to Catholic teaching, that submission to the Roman Pontiff is not necessary for salvation.

"Novus Ordo conservatives" are bound to abandon the infallible condemnations contained in the Syllabus of Errors of Pius IX, since Vatican II has promulgated religious liberty as a right, while Pope Pius IX has condemned religious liberty as a heresy.

To accept the papacy of "Vatican II popes" is to believe in the evolution of dogma (a heresy condemned by St. Pius X).

Bergoglio is very clear: "Protestants and Catholics now agree regarding justification" [Full text: Pope Francis’ in-flight press conference from Armenia, Catholic News Agency, June 26, 2016]. That would mean that the Catholic Church has changed the dogmatic teaching of the Council of Trent. So, if Bergoglio is a real pope, the Church is a false religion that changes with time, like any other Protestant sect.

Objectively speaking, you cannot be a Catholic today without being a sedevacantist.
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I agree with you. Well said. Do you attend a Sede church, or are you staying at home just praying the rosary? I attend an SSPX church right now to receive the sacraments, but I obviously disagree with the R&R position, and I want nothing to do with the V2 counter Church.
 
Objection: are Sedevecantist's just Protestants?

I've heard this objection raised so frequently that I feel compelled to address it. Firstly, let's clarify what a Protestant is. In general terms, Protestantism refers to a branch of Christianity that adheres to the theological principles of the Protestant Reformation. These principles include:

1) Sola scriptura
2) Sola fide
3) Sola gratia
4) Solus Christus
5) Soli Deo gloria

Now, which of these principles do Sedevecantists adhere to? None. How can Sedevecantists be labeled as Protestants when they reject all five principles?

You might argue that a Protestant is someone who protests against the Pope. However, Sedevecantists don't fit this definition. They maintain that there hasn't been a legitimate pope since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. Conversely, Recognize and Resist (R&R) semi-traditionalists could be seen as closer to this definition. They acknowledge "Pope" Francis as the pope but openly defy him while appealing to a higher authority, often referred to as "tradition." Therefore, by this criterion, Sedevecantists cannot be considered Protestants.

Alternatively, you might suggest that a Protestant is someone who believes the Catholic Church has deviated from the true faith at some point. Yet, Sedevecantists reject this notion as well. They uphold the Catholic Church's indefectibility, arguing instead that the current entity claiming to be the "Catholic" Church emerged after Pope Pius XII's death in 1958. Thus, by this definition too, Sedevecantists cannot be categorized as Protestants.

Given these considerations, I am left wondering: by what definition, then, are Sedevecantists considered Protestant? I am genuinely open to hearing any explanation.
 
staddlelateen said:
I agree with you. Well said. Do you attend a Sede church, or are you staying at home just praying the rosary? I attend an SSPX church right now to receive the sacraments, but I obviously disagree with the R&R position, and I want nothing to do with the V2 counter Church.
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I do attend a sedevacantist church, but since the nearest sede churches/Mass centers are all about a 2-2.5 hours' drive away from me, and because my job requires me often to work on Sundays, I'm not able to attend on a weekly basis. I try to go once a month or at least once every couple of months, and in the meantime when it is not possible for me to physically attend Mass, I instead pray the Rosary and other prayers and devotions, most especially that of assisting at Mass "virtually" (for instance, here: https://www.sgg.org/for-newcomers/mass-streaming/ or https://youtube.com/@st.gertrudethegreatlive4439?si=H93D4B5EIKHxsRHZ

staddlelateen said:
Objection: are Sedevecantist's just Protestants?

I've heard this objection raised so frequently that I feel compelled to address it. Firstly, let's clarify what a Protestant is. In general terms, Protestantism refers to a branch of Christianity that adheres to the theological principles of the Protestant Reformation. These principles include:

1) Sola scriptura
2) Sola fide
3) Sola gratia
4) Solus Christus
5) Soli Deo gloria

Now, which of these principles do Sedevecantists adhere to? None. How can Sedevecantists be labeled as Protestants when they reject all five principles?

You might argue that a Protestant is someone who protests against the Pope. However, Sedevecantists don't fit this definition. They maintain that there hasn't been a legitimate pope since the death of Pope Pius XII in 1958. Conversely, Recognize and Resist (R&R) semi-traditionalists could be seen as closer to this definition. They acknowledge "Pope" Francis as the pope but openly defy him while appealing to a higher authority, often referred to as "tradition." Therefore, by this criterion, Sedevecantists cannot be considered Protestants.

Alternatively, you might suggest that a Protestant is someone who believes the Catholic Church has deviated from the true faith at some point. Yet, Sedevecantists reject this notion as well. They uphold the Catholic Church's indefectibility, arguing instead that the current entity claiming to be the "Catholic" Church emerged after Pope Pius XII's death in 1958. Thus, by this definition too, Sedevecantists cannot be categorized as Protestants.

Given these considerations, I am left wondering: by what definition, then, are Sedevecantists considered Protestant? I am genuinely open to hearing any explanation.
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"You're a Protestant" is literally the laziest, most desperately stupid argument in the entire Sedephobe arsenal. Vatican II considers Protestant churches as legitimate "means of salvation", so why should Novus Ordites care if we're Protestants or not? Being called "Protestants" by people who think Jorge Bergoglio is Catholic is absolutely hilarious.IMG_3477.jpeg
 
Genealogist said:
I do attend a sedevacantist church, but since the nearest sede churches/Mass centers are all about a 2-2.5 hours' drive away from me, and because my job requires me often to work on Sundays, I'm not able to attend on a weekly basis. I try to go once a month or at least once every couple of months, and in the meantime when it is not possible for me to physically attend Mass, I instead pray the Rosary and other prayers and devotions, most especially that of assisting at Mass "virtually" (for instance, here: https://www.sgg.org/for-newcomers/mass-streaming/ or https://youtube.com/@st.gertrudethegreatlive4439?si=H93D4B5EIKHxsRHZ


"You're a Protestant" is literally the laziest, most desperately stupid argument in the entire Sedephobe arsenal. Vatican II considers Protestant churches as legitimate "means of salvation", so why should Novus Ordites care if we're Protestants or not? Being called "Protestants" by people who think Jorge Bergoglio is Catholic is absolutely hilarious.View attachment 5648
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Not to mention that Anglican masses are being celebrated in Roman churches with the express approval of Bergoglio and that the whole purpose behind communion in the hand is to undermine transubstantiation
 
Genealogist said:
For the first time ever, "Pope" Francis recently commented on sedevacantism. We're winning, boys. 😎🍄🍄View attachment 6676

From Novus Ordo Watch - 'Pope' Francis Says Sedevacantists Are 'Mushrooms' That Have Emerged, Feels Sorry for Them
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One of the many reasons why a mushroom emerges in the forest is to protect the local flora by absorbing poisons and toxins that enter the environment, hence if we are the fungi then he must be recognizing himself as the poison that inherently endangers the forest.
 
"Why is there so much hatred of the sedevacantists by the Novus Ordo? It is because the sedevacantists put an arrow in the heart of Vatican II. No other position in the traditional movement does this." — Bp. Donald Sanborn
 
Exactly, and that is the crux of the matter. And moreover if the rest of the catholic world were to accept sedevacantists were right all along, it would be they have to repent of their apostasy since they would be aware of the facts. It really would be a seismic shift for hundreds of millions...
 
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