The “Jesus was a Jew” Argument

Moot point. Jesus is the Son of God born of the of the line of King David and the people called Israel (*not* the misnomer of the modern "country" called by the same name.) He is the Messiah. And Israel is the nation of Christians world wide.

Debate about ancient history that doesn't matter. I have full confidence that the ancient Fathers (some that were contemporaries or close contemporaries) absolutely knew what they were writing about.
 
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There are those who hope and attempt to sow doubt in the hearts of Christians by equating Jesus with not even any stereotypical modern Jew, but with the most contemptible ones, they sometimes pass themselves off as pagans, new age spirituality adherents, or deists, not as insufferable atheists, so just join them and forget about Christianity, and let's all be happy, but as long as you're lost and disoriented always looking for some undefined "enlightenment" and the truth far away from its real source, all is wonderful and well, you just laugh, love, and enjoy life. This is where this criticism comes from, maybe they'll shake your faith if some gods they don't believe in make the stars line up, and you fall for it, because look what the Jews are doing over there and Jesus was one of them.

As the son of the Virgin Mary, fully human, He had the psychological traits of a man who leads. Jesus was biologically and genetically Jewish, culturally and spiritually too- he obeyed and fulfilled the law of Moses.

Jews don't dispute His Jewish origins either, they say he was a wayward Jew, in the video below, to prove their accusations the rabbi claims Jesus was conjured from hell and himself confirmed their blasphemous, slanderous teachings about Him. Never mind God strictly prohibits necromancy in the Old Testament- but it's so easy, you make the rules, just do the twist, a little hocus-pocus or whatever, and God has no choice but to comply and release the spirit of anybody you wish to see, from its confines, to answer any and all of your questions.

The inquirer looks incredulous listening to the old Caiaphas' explanations. This video was posted elsewhere on this forum already:

 
There are those who hope and attempt to sow doubt in the hearts of Christians by equating Jesus with not even any stereotypical modern Jew, but with the most contemptible ones, they sometimes pass themselves off as pagans, new age spirituality adherents, or deists, not as insufferable atheists, so just join them and forget about Christianity, and let's all be happy, but as long as you're lost and disoriented always looking for some undefined "enlightenment" and the truth far away from its real source, all is wonderful and well, you just laugh, love, and enjoy life. This is where this criticism comes from, maybe they'll shake your faith if some gods they don't believe in make the stars line up, and you fall for it, because look what the Jews are doing over there and Jesus was one of them.

As the son of the Virgin Mary, fully human, He had the psychological traits of a man who leads. Jesus was biologically and genetically Jewish, culturally and spiritually too- he obeyed and fulfilled the law of Moses.

Jews don't dispute His Jewish origins either, they say he was a wayward Jew, in the video below, to prove their accusations the rabbi claims Jesus was conjured from hell and himself confirmed their blasphemous, slanderous teachings about Him. Never mind God strictly prohibits necromancy in the Old Testament- but it's so easy, you make the rules, just do the twist, a little hocus-pocus or whatever, and God has no choice but to comply and release the spirit of anybody you wish to see, from its confines, to answer any and all of your questions.

The inquirer looks incredulous listening to the old Caiaphas' explanations. This video was posted elsewhere on this forum already:


It is of course ridiculous because I'm sure that young man has read his teachings and sayings.

The lost, like we are currently experiencing, always tell on themselves (or eventually do).
 
The people who make this argument assume that Judaism existed in the 2nd Temple period in the same guise that it exists in today. The presumption here being that Christianity was some kind of offshoot that differentiated itself from the get-go. But the reality of the situation was that the Jewish people at the time who understood the scriptures well, became Christians because they understood Christ as the fulfillment of the OT, it was not something completely out of left field for them. Modern Judaism is completely different to what existed in the 2nd Temple period, much of it being a reaction to Christianity.
 
I will take a stab at this one.

The Original Root of the Word​

  • The word “Jew” comes from the name of the tribe/kingdom of Judah (Hebrew: Yehudah).
  • In Hebrew: Yehudah (יְהוּדָה) = Judah (the man, son of Jacob) / Yehudi (יְהוּדִי) = a person from Judah.
  • In Greek (Septuagint & NT): Ἰουδαῖος (Ioudaios) = Judean or Jew.
  • In Latin: Iudaeus.
  • In English: “Jew” - an evolution through Old French (giu), Middle English (Iewe).

Early Usage in the Bible​

  • Old Testament: At first, “Yehudi” simply meant someone from the tribe or territory of Judah. Example: 2 Kings 16:6.
  • After the Babylonian Exile (6th c. BC), the term broadened. Since Judah was the main surviving tribe (along with some Levites and Benjaminites), “Jew” came to mean any Israelite who adhered to the covenant and returned from exile.
  • New Testament: Ioudaios is used broadly — not just for tribal Judah, but for the whole people identified with the Jewish religion and nation. Example: John 4:22, “salvation is from the Jews.”

The Shift in Meaning​

  • Originally: “Jew” = member of the tribe of Judah (narrow).
  • Later OT / Second Temple Judaism: “Jew” = member of the people of Israel, especially those faithful to the Torah and Temple, regardless of exact tribal origin (broad).
  • Today: “Jew” means someone belonging to the Jewish people, by religion or ethnicity, descended from the ancient Israelites.

Source of the Confusion​

People hear that “the word Jew wasn’t in the Bible originally.”

Strictly speaking, the English word “Jew” didn’t exist in biblical times — the Hebrew word was Yehudi and the Greek was Ioudaios. But the concept and the word’s equivalent did exist, just in those older languages. This is of course somewhat subjective and open to some debate. The meaning also shifted: first a geographic/tribal identity (Judah), later a broader religious/national identity (all Israelites).

The word “Jew” ultimately comes from Judah (Yehudah). In the Bible it first meant someone from the tribe or kingdom of Judah, but by the time of the New Testament it meant the whole people of Israel who followed the covenant. The modern English word is a translation of the Greek Ioudaios and Hebrew Yehudi. The “confusion” comes from the shift in scope: what began as a tribal/geographic label became a religious and ethnic one. The word semite or semitic (descendants from the tribe of Shem) has similar qualities and history/controversy. Something along the lines of "all jews are semites, but not all semites are jews".

From Israel to the Church​

  • The Orthodox Church teaches that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 5:17).
  • Those who receive Christ - Jews and Gentiles alike - become the “Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16).
  • St. Paul says: Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel (Romans 9:6).
In other words, physical descent is not enough; faith in Christ is what unites someone to God’s people. Thus, in Orthodox understanding, the Church is the continuation and fulfillment of Israel; not a replacement, but the true flowering of what Israel was and is meant to be.

What Happened to the Old Covenant?​

After the rejection of Christ by many of the Jewish leaders, the Old Covenant sacrificial system lost its salvific power. The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, ending the priesthood and sacrifices of the Mosaic Law. From the Orthodox perspective, this was not an accident of history but a sign that the Old Covenant had passed, and that salvation is now in Christ through the Church’s sacraments.

Rabbinic / Talmudic Judaism​

After the Temple’s destruction, Judaism developed into what is now called Rabbinic or Talmudic Judaism, centered not on the Temple and sacrifices but on the Torah, rabbinic teaching, and synagogue worship. Orthodoxy respects Jewish people as descendants of Abraham, but sees Rabbinic Judaism as no longer possessing the fullness of God’s covenant, since that covenant is fulfilled in Christ.

The Sacraments and Birthright​

The Church Fathers (e.g., St. Justin Martyr, St. John Chrysostom) taught that those who rejected Christ forfeited the covenant blessings. The “birthright” of Israel now belongs to those united to Christ, the true Son of David and Seed of Abraham. Baptism and the Eucharist are the new circumcision and sacrifice, given to the New Israel, the Church.

Modern State of Israel vs. Theological Israel​

Orthodoxy does not identify the modern State of Israel with the biblical Israel. The modern state is a political entity, not a theological fulfillment. In Orthodox theology, the Church, composed of all nations united in Christ, is the true “Israel of God”. In Orthodox Christianity, Christ is the fulfillment of Israel, and the Church (Jews and Gentiles who believe in Him) is the New Israel.

The old sacrifices and Temple priesthood ended with Christ’s coming and the destruction of the Temple. Judaism after Christ preserved some aspects of the old faith but, in Orthodox eyes, no longer holds the sacraments or covenant in their fullness. The modern state of Israel is seen as a political, not theological, entity.
 
Jesus led the last supper and practiced The Sabbath when he can. He read the Torrah before turning Water into wine and ate and talked like a Jew, so Yes Jewish he is with a few Reformations.
 
It is of course ridiculous because I'm sure that young man has read his teachings and sayings.

The lost, like we are currently experiencing, always tell on themselves (or eventually do).

Maybe on the Internet, that's probably why he's asking. From what I know [Talmudic] Jews consider the Gospel a forbidden cursed book, a satanic bible if you will.

Some Jewish sects don't even pay much attention to the Torah, but I'm sure that old crook knows what it says. As a lurker I recall there was a Catholic Jewish convert on the RV2 forum who emphasized he had come from the Torah tradition- if you are reading this I hope you are enjoying the protection and abundant blessings through Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Modern Judaism is completely different to what existed in the 2nd Temple period, much of it being a reaction to Christianity.

In that x video I reposted, the rabbi says Christianity rose 200 years after Jesus, while in fact the Talmud came into existence in written form in the third century, which began in 201 AD. It had been alive in the form of oral traditions for centuries before, and blended Babylonian magic and superstitions with debased Jewish traditions.
 
What did Jesus Christ himself say to the jews that rejected him? Remember, his first followers were mostly jews.

John 8:42-44

"42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
 
John 8:55: “You have not known Him (the Father), but I know Him. If I were to say that I do not know Him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know Him and I keep His word.”

Matthew 23:31–33: “Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?”

Revelation 2:9: “I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.”

Revelation 3:9: “Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of satan who say that they are jews and are not, but lie; behold, I will make them come and bow down before your (faithful Orthodox Christians) feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.”
 
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