The history taught in schools is fiction

[paternos]

I'm coming to the conclusion that history in modern society is a work of fiction.

Sometimes there is some reality to an event, but what it portrays becomes a work of fiction.

Like in 1984, where George Orwell wrote,

'In the end, the Party would announce that two two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy.'

This exemplifies how historical manipulation and distortion can shape our perception of reality.

As today the party says: Man is not Man and Woman not Woman. You choose your "gender".

2 and 2 is 5 brother.

Some older and new story blocks that I consider fictional: systemic racism, nuclear bombs, terrorist airplanes collapsing towers, Pearl Harbor, evil sadistic Nazis, Chinamen shaving Uyghur hair for Russian wigs, Vietcong sitting in trees like monkeys, the “cold war,” the dust-covered kids in the rubble of Gaza buildings without wounds, the “new age,” “human rights,” the pot-bellied kids in Africa in the ’80s, climate change, sour rain, new Ice age, the Alex Jones nonsense factory, one cell organisms evoluting to man, the heroic dday landings, huge flying reptiles called dinosaurs and a lot more.

Either completely fake or the portrayal is such a gross perversion of the factual truth that we need to speak of fiction.

What do you think? Do you believe our shared "history"?

 

[Papist]

Historical accounts of events have definitely been distorted and embellished to suit a particular agenda or narrative. 9/11 is probably the best example of this; whether the truth will ever be exposed is uncertain, but I am convinced that it was a false flag event used as a pretext to invade Iraq in accordance with the stated objectives of the Wolfowitz Doctrine and the PNAC.

 

[Caduceus]

Saw the thread title on the right hand side bar.
Expected paternos as OP.
Opened thread.
Was not disappointed.

 

[Vas Incrementum]

Paternos, you're doing what a lot of red pill newbies do and rebounding to an extreme position. What's noticeable about your posts is that they're based on the belief that everything that glitters isn't gold. But some things are.

I'm a deeply suspicious person, because I was hurt badly by folk. But many times when I've kept people at arms length, I've learned that they had good intentions. It's no way to be mate, it leads to constant suspicion and fear. A better place is to simply say to oneself, I don't know, Lord help us. It's the humble position.

 

[JR5]

Before one can look at historical distortions, imo, one needs to look at how history is created in the present -- and modern history is almost entirely fake: "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” - William J. Casey, Director of the CIA from 1981 to 1987. Basically, the way it works is that there is a closed informational feedback loop between the oligarchical-owned media, the corrupt-and-controlled politicians, the governmental institutions that create and disseminate policy, and the affiliated university professors. History is crafted as a false explanation for governmental behavior as it pursues its own nefarious objectives. It is frustrating being a dissident because there is no feedback loop where dissident views can be translated into power (at least for now, and for all of modern history). Take a look at the George Floyd situation as just one tiny example, everything about that case was fake, or the much larger falsehoods surrounding the whole COVID scam.

There's also very little reason to assume it hasn't always been this way, either: https://neofeudalreview.substack.com/p/did-the-last-three-years-of-covid

 

[Psiman]

The field of history works like an initiatory mystical cult and not a science. Its practitioners make propositions based on tradition, plausibility, story-telling and pretending to read minds over space and time (necromancy). Very few initiates have access to the vetting of the physical evidence which supposedly support their propositions.

Change my mind!

 

[paternos]

Paternos, you're doing what a lot of red pill newbies do and rebounding to an extreme position. What's noticeable about your posts is that they're based on the belief that everything that glitters isn't gold. But some things are.

I'm a deeply suspicious person, because I was hurt badly by folk. But many times when I've kept people at arms length, I've learned that they had good intentions. It's no way to be mate, it leads to constant suspicion and fear. A better place is to simply say to oneself, I don't know, Lord help us. It's the humble position.

I don't think it's an extreme position. I think it's a very extreme position to trust people that have lied about 9/11, about the flu, about the moon landing, to trust the millionaire politicians people that bow for "BLM", those that tow down the old statues and erect new ones and those that write "history" education

I come from the position to trust my own eyes, my own rationality, to love God above all and have a good community around me with people I trust and love.

I just keep the narratives from the black screen at a distance, I indeed don't think these people have good intentions as you seem to think.

The field of history works like an initiatory mystical cult and not a science.

I think it's very true, e.g. us being in outer space visiting asteroids who move with 6 million km an hour to bring back rocks.



To say man is not man. To say we are systemically racist. To believe in climate change and the evil of CO2.

You need to do and say such strange, weird stuff to show allegiance to the system. That's indeed a cult and we need to play along with the cult up to a certain level to survive in modern society.

 

[Johnnyvee]

Some history is fiction, and some is not. Although many of the things you mentioned are not really historical question's as much as as they're scientific one's. It's like with Wikipedia, you can trust an article on the origins of the banana or kiwi fruit, but not on climate change and the Holocaust. You really have to answer the question of; what is there to gain by distortion? In terms of economical and power issues usually. If there is nothing to gain you can probably trust the info, although it can still be wrong for other reasons. It's not wise to assume that everything is a lie just because some things are!

 

[Wutang]

Something I constantly warn against is to not be contratarian for the sake of being contractarian since I think it's a huge temptation in spheres like ours. Even if you have a general principle or bias to be automatically suspicious of anything that is promoted by the mainstream, it's still important to evaluate things by a case by case basis. I have a feeling for a certain portion of people in these spheres, reverse psychology would actually be a good tactic to use on them. If I was some Fed and I wanted to make people in the dissident right/traditionalist spheres to have X opinion, my tactic would be to call up the ADL, CNN, Ben Shapiro, etc. to promote whatever is the opposite of X with the prediction that just because these figures are promoting Not X, a lot of people in the dissident communities will start believing in X just because these people were promoting Not X.

 

[MusicForThePiano]

There are new skeptic groups called the Tartaria movement that position that all of history is fake, especially before 1900, and that everything happened as a series of resets, they present very compelling evidence showing the technology of the ancient world, everything reduced to cubits of the golden ratio and even link it with descriptions in the Bible in Antediluvian times. Of course it becomes more fringe the more you look into this, but there are significant truths that are evident, in terms of the sacred geometry of the Cathedrals, even the Mosques, and older pagan temples.

I would like to see everyone's take on this particular series of discussions. They are on Telegram, and most non-mainstream video streaming websites.

There are historical narratives that we know is complete bs, whether its dinosaurs that were scaly in the 90s and feathereds in the 2010s, or ice ages and warm ages, or evil blonde-haired blue-eyed men, most of these narratives are just goyslop for the mind to keep people from ever freeing themselves from the tribal parasites.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

I agree. I tend to often just ignore history entirely and make my own personal understanding of history from the bible, my personal experiences and the words of my grandparents and great-grandparents. When that's not possible, and it often isn't, I do at least entertain what the history books say, though.

- Oh, an evil man in your town 60 years ago turned good because he found a giant frog demon in a forest and got so scared that he acquired rememberance of death, grandpa? Oh, people used to sometimes get swallowed by the ground and pulled by the legs into hell in broad daylight when you were a child in rural Colombia, great-grandma on her deathbed? I believe you both unconditionally.

- The Bible says that this descendant of adam invented the wheel and X or Y musical instrument? Sure, makes sense to me, so that's where that came from. Saint George encountered dragons and defeated them, you say? Absolutely. Blessed Saint George, please pray for me.

I understand the accepted narratives of this age quite well. I can explain the theory of evolution better than 98% of soyence believers. But as far as I'm concerned, it's no different from explaining the lore of Warhammer 40k.

"And so basically yeah, machines are haunted by both AI and extradimensional forces of evil, because of this thing that happened thousands of years ago"
"We're still talking about Warhammer, right?"
"Uhhhh... Sure."

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

As a sidenote, Warhammer has some very based Christian elements in it, and I know it's probably unintentional, but they are HEAVY Christian elements. Literally replace the word "Emperor" with "Christ" in a W40k book and it becomes a Christian space opera. The Imperium of Man as a whole has an aesthetic that seems to be inspired by Orthodox Christian architecture and whatnot. Just watch this video and tell me it couldn't be interpreted as a kind of prayer, about "fighting and dying" in spiritual warfare, the death of the old man of sin:



There's even twin-headed eagles decorating this place, portrayed in the video, called the Fortress Monastery. There's also a lot of symbolism about skulls and death. Might as well have Orthodox crosses and icons at that point. Actually insane. I'm probably overthinking this and exaggerating, whatever, I'm tired and sleepy.

 

[Iacobus]

This mentality when extended too far leads to solipsism. History is a precious gift & while it can't be treated as an exact science of truthful recording, neither can it be deconstructed into meaninglessness or discarded simply because it was often recorded with some kind of bias or because lies have been told. There are certainly lies mixed with truths but it is very possible to discern which is which with careful study & measurement against lived experience. I think a better term than "history is fiction" would be "history is narrative". Narratives are constructed and measured with a function and structure in mind but this does not make them inherently truthful or untruthful. Whereas fiction implies total construction from the ether. SOME history is fiction but certainly not all, and if you want to make the case that all history is fiction then you're going to need a strong premise than "well they lie about lots of stuff so history is a lie!" I feel like you're probably being intentionally a bit provocative with your thread title though given that you clarify in your post that you're talking about modern psyops and not necessarily extending your premise to all of history?

 

[Aboulia]

I'm coming to the conclusion that history in modern society is a work of fiction.

Sometimes there is some reality to an event, but what it portrays becomes a work of fiction.

Like in 1984, where George Orwell wrote,

'In the end, the Party would announce that two two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy.'

This exemplifies how historical manipulation and distortion can shape our perception of reality.

As today the party says: Man is not Man and Woman not Woman. You choose your "gender".

2 and 2 is 5 brother.

Some older and new story blocks that I consider fictional: systemic racism, nuclear bombs, terrorist airplanes collapsing towers, Pearl Harbor, evil sadistic Nazis, Chinamen shaving Uyghur hair for Russian wigs, Vietcong sitting in trees like monkeys, the “cold war,” the dust-covered kids in the rubble of Gaza buildings without wounds, the “new age,” “human rights,” the pot-bellied kids in Africa in the ’80s, climate change, sour rain, new Ice age, the Alex Jones nonsense factory, one cell organisms evoluting to man, the heroic dday landings, huge flying reptiles called dinosaurs and a lot more.

Either completely fake or the portrayal is such a gross perversion of the factual truth that we need to speak of fiction.

What do you think? Do you believe our shared "history"?

Coming to? You seem to have been there for awhile, as your created threads show that your opinion is that everything is controlled by the NWO, nukes are fake, and now history is fake. While you're of course correct to a degree, history is a form of propaganda, as it's always written by the victors, and propaganda has been in use since man discovered to lie, and man's capacity for that has only increased over time as we go further and further down the technology road, and with that fear has been used to control people has only increased. The only question, is what are you going to do about it? As it stands currently, you have this extremely negative hopeless view, and you seem interested in talking about how the world is circling the drain, rather than how to get out of it, why do you think this is? Do you think this is in line with Christ's teaching that those who follow him are to be the "light" of the world?

I'm not saying you shouldn't "expose" the "darkness" of this world, but there is a way in which to do it which edifies and builds, and another which demoralizes and destroys, and you have to be very conscious and careful as to what you're aiming to do. There's a reason why blackpill content is generally allowed to exist in mainstream spaces.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

Coming to? You seem to have been there for awhile, as your created threads show that your opinion is that everything is controlled by the NWO, nukes are fake, and now history is fake. While you're of course correct to a degree, history is a form of propaganda, as it's always written by the victors, and propaganda has been in use since man discovered to lie, and man's capacity for that has only increased over time as we go further and further down the technology road, and with that fear has been used to control people has only increased. The only question, is what are you going to do about it? As it stands currently, you have this extremely negative hopeless view, and you seem interested in talking about how the world is circling the drain, rather than how to get out of it, why do you think this is? Do you think this is in line with Christ's teaching that those who follow him are to be the "light" of the world?

I'm not saying you shouldn't "expose" the "darkness" of this world, but there is a way in which to do it which edifies and builds, and another which demoralizes and destroys, and you have to be very conscious and careful as to what you're aiming to do. There's a reason why blackpill content is generally allowed to exist in mainstream spaces.

I don't think he's being negative, though. That would imply that this makes him despondent or something, which I don't think is the case here. He just thinks history has been warped and it's probably best to largely take it with a grain of salt or ignore it. "What are you going to do about it" is a bit of a silly question. What he's going to do is have a particular attitude toward history. You don't need some grand action plan just for an opinion to be worth holding, man. If you think something is true, and agree that truth is an end by itself, then that's all.

It's not like you really gain anything from believing in secular history, who won X war, who ruled X country or who committed X act of evil. You do gain a lot from things of a spiritual nature, like the lives of the Saints, and at that point you're not taking the word of some Jew historian for it, you're trusting in the ancient traditions of the One, True, Catholic and Apostolic Church, as well you should.

 

[Iacobus]

I don't think he's being negative, though. That would imply that this makes him despondent or something, which I don't think is the case here. He just thinks history has been warped and it's probably best to largely take it with a grain of salt or ignore it. "What are you going to do about it" is a bit of a silly question. What he's going to do is have a particular attitude toward secular history.

It's not like you really gain anything from believing in secular history, who won X war, who ruled X country or who committed X act of evil. You do gain a lot from things of a spiritual nature, like the lives of the Saints, and at that point you're not taking the word of some Jew historian for it, you're trusting in the ancient traditions of the One, True, Catholic and Apostolic Church, as well you should.

You really don't think there's anything to gain from studying history? It is the key to understanding the modern world that we must navigate... studying 'secular' history actually converted me to Christianity... recognizing the recurring patterns of history under different names (eg bread and circuses / DoorDash and Netflix) is a huge redpill. All the most knowledgeable and wisest people I've ever known knew their stuff when it came to history. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

You really don't think there's anything to gain from studying history? It is the key to understanding the modern world... studying 'secular' history actually converted me to Christianity... recognizing the recurring patterns of history under different names (bread and circuses / DoorDash and Netflix) is a huge redpill. All the most knowledgeable and wisest people I've ever known knew their stuff when it came to history. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

If you put it that way, there is something to be gained from most things up to a certain point. What initially put me in the path to actual serious Christianity was arguably just videogames and "SJW own/rage compilations" on YouTube. Doesn't mean you absolutely need those things. There is of course value in studying history, for the sake of understanding human nature and recognizing patterns and whatnot. All I'm saying is, if someone is already a Christian and wants to be extremely skeptical toward history, there is literally nothing he's losing by doing that. It's not like you can't get those same benefits from just living a serious Christian life, reading the lives of the Saints and the bible and whatnot, and cultivating your masculinity.

What insights relevant to my own spiritual or secular life could I possibly get from, like, reading a secular history book about the Roman Empire or WWII, that I cannot possibly get from a Bible or Philokalia or Synaxarion or all the books out there written by Saints and/or their disciples? That and just listening to older men about things and paying attention to life and the things around me.

Coming back to this real quick to sincerely apologize if I came off as a little aggressive or smug here, by the way. Love you all.

 

[paternos]

Coming to? You seem to have been there for awhile, as your created threads show that your opinion is that everything is controlled by the NWO, nukes are fake, and now history is fake. While you're of course correct to a degree, history is a form of propaganda, as it's always written by the victors, and propaganda has been in use since man discovered to lie, and man's capacity for that has only increased over time as we go further and further down the technology road, and with that fear has been used to control people has only increased.

We agree here.

When I write "history is fake" it means that it's a largely shaped narrative which is there to make us believe something.

History brings fears. E.g. fears for evil muslims and arabs after 9/11, I travelled to Iran, Algeria, Egypt and many others and it's all fine, more of less just people like you and me. Especially modern history, WW2 and beyond i think is deeply corrupted.

I'm of the opinion that "history" in school is clouded with lies. We think we study "history", but the learn propaganda.

I agree that real history can be beneficial and that it's important to discern. But in the current state of schooling, it's a grand deception. Kids are asked to read and repeat, not to discern.

For example history teaching in Germany post WW2 has been complete mind control; Pure propaganda to shape a new German man.

And I think it's not much better in the US.

The only question, is what are you going to do about it?

Nothing, I think the awareness of lies vs reality is beneficial.

As it stands currently, you have this extremely negative hopeless view, and you seem interested in talking about how the world is circling the drain, rather than how to get out of it, why do you think this is?

I don't agree it's hopeless. I just say the state is not a good educator. Not on the physical reality as in the spiritual reality. Rather have faith in God, read the saints, read the bible and love your neighbor as yourself.

Do you think this is in line with Christ's teaching that those who follow him are to be the "light" of the world?

Yes, I believe this is the light.

I'm not saying you shouldn't "expose" the "darkness" of this world, but there is a way in which to do it which edifies and builds, and another which demoralizes and destroys, and you have to be very conscious and careful as to what you're aiming to do. There's a reason why blackpill content is generally allowed to exist in mainstream spaces.

I don't think this is black pill. It might feel at first. I believe it's a liberation from the narratives they spew over us that have no reflection in our daily lives.

I say the opposite. No need to worry about Ukraine, Israel, nukes, as it is mostly a web of lies. Rather focus on God.

It's to say: Turn away from the world of lies, as the answer isn't there. And we all have so much evidence of this deception that I feel many have a form of Stockholm complex here.

I see many straw man reactions "ah you say everything is a lie". Well I don't say that. I say it's fiction. History is meant to make you feel something. It's propaganda. I'm sure many factual elements are true.

But when they tell us on the dark middle ages. Wasn't there Thomas Aquinas and many other great saints? Great thinkers? Builders? Were those really dark ages?

Did we really "enlight" in the enlightenment? Is this equality so great?

Did the evil Nazis really gas 6 million? Is it so clear that the Germans were the bad guys and the Americans the good sweet liberators?

I'm now reading Chrysostom, Abba Poemen did you learn about them in history class? Or did we learn Nietzsche?

I think modern society is deeply spiritual sick, but we live in the most amazing time as we can access the wisdom of the past, we talk to Chrysostom, to Aquinas, we can see with our own eyes and think ourselves.

I'm actually quite surprised to get quite some pushback on my statement, that history is fiction. I don't think the state deceivers need more support.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

But when they tell us on the dark middle ages. Wasn't there Thomas Aquinas and many other great saints? Great thinkers? Builders? Were those really dark ages?

There's this really interesting episode from the NotRelated podcast that talks about this and more broadly about the lies we're told about history. Not sure if you've heard of this podcast, it's from a very well-read Orthodox Christian called Luke Smith who has a PHD in linguistics and very interesting opinions on a lot of things.

Myth as History: Rohl's New Chronology

I don't think he had converted to Orthodoxy yet when he made this episode, to be clear. The guy has now, like Roosh, seemingly gone off the grid (he rightfully hated the internet), but he produced a treasure trove of very edifying content which you can still go through.

 

[Aboulia]

I don't think he's being negative, though. That would imply that this makes him despondent or something, which I don't think is the case here. He just thinks history has been warped and it's probably best to largely take it with a grain of salt or ignore it. "What are you going to do about it" is a bit of a silly question. What he's going to do is have a particular attitude toward history. You don't need some grand action plan just for an opinion to be worth holding, man. If you think something is true, and agree that truth is an end by itself, then that's all.

It's not like you really gain anything from believing in secular history, who won X war, who ruled X country or who committed X act of evil. You do gain a lot from things of a spiritual nature, like the lives of the Saints, and at that point you're not taking the word of some Jew historian for it, you're trusting in the ancient traditions of the One, True, Catholic and Apostolic Church, as well you should.

Talking about the negatives without discussing a way out of the negativity, is feeding into negativity. If the OP was talking about one topic in particular it could be a discussion, but he listed 20 things and ended with "and a lot more". It's not about having a "grand action plan". What good is "truth" as an end in itself. If you agree that something is wrong, and you willingly go along with it, are you really in agreement that the thing itself is wrong? Is that not hypocrisy?

The statement "It's not like you really gain anything from believing in secular history" is not entirely true (in the worldly sense of the world). You're on the internet communicating anonymously for a reason, you won't be able to convince me that the mods promote OPSEC for absolutely no reason. Everything you do can be of a spiritual nature if you're so oriented, it depends on the way you look at things. Christians turn death into life, it started by turning torture and persecutions into a growing and flowering of the faith.

When I write "history is fake" it means that it's a largely shaped narrative which is there to make us believe something.

Well, that makes more sense than the clickbait title, as the aim (for better or for worse) is to gather and unite people. You would agree that a population must share things in common to remain as one people.

I agree that real history can be beneficial and that it's important to discern. But in the current state of schooling, it's a grand deception. Kids are asked to read and repeat, not to discern.

If you truly believe this is a problem, then wouldn't the natural response be "How can we encourage and build more homeschooling networks?"

Nothing, I think the awareness of lies vs reality is beneficial.

How can it be beneficial, if you do nothing with the knowledge? Is it just an act of theatre that God came to earth and died on the cross for the sins of the world, or does it imply that to be a Christian, one must try to act in the same manner as Christ?

I say the opposite. No need to worry about Ukraine, Israel, nukes, as it is mostly a web of lies. Rather focus on God.

If you're focused on God, what does that look like? How do you focus on God, if you don't want to do anything with the "knowledge" you've gained?

To an extent I agree, as one should focus on the people close to them rather than the events thousands of miles away, but is it not slightly unnerving that the Jews want to takeover and destroy Al Aqsa mosque to build the third temple? Is that not a call to repentance? God has prevented the Jews in the past from succeeding to build it, and woe to us if it happens in our time.

I'm actually quite surprised to get quite some pushback on my statement, that history is fiction. I don't think the state deceivers need more support.

It's not that the people here are in agreement with mainstream views, but I believe the pushback comes from the fact that you're not going about things in a constructive manner.