Restaurants

[Get2choppaaa]

I found this explanation on the US department of labor website:

"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires payment of at least the Federal minimum wage to covered, nonexempt employees. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the Federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the Federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

Some states have minimum wage laws specific to tipped employees. When an employee is subject to both the Federal and state wage laws, the employee is entitled to the provisions which provides the greater benefits."

https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

There is also this very complex breakdown state by state here:

Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees

www.dol.gov

Neither webpage however specifies the minimum and maximum (what percentage) the establishment can charge for service/tips.


From what I understand there is no minimum required service charge/tipping percentage according to US LAW, so basically it's a bit of a wild west situation in the USA in which restaurants can ask for whatever percentage they want, and customers can also decide whatever percentage to pay or not pay.

It's a situation that really requires clearer and more precise legislation to prevent ongoing confusion, and financial abuse of both customers and employees.

Yes, you're correct there is no national regulated standard, but many places put they on the menu that parties of XYZ size will automatically have a 20 percent gratuity fee atteched to the bill.

People who don't tip at all will just force restaurants to either do that or to subsidize the wages of their employees through price increases. Fucking economics huh? Crazy how that works....

I tend to not like minimum wage laws for tips, or percentages. A good waiter can get 25 or 30 percent tips by doing an excellent job. A crappy waiter might get 10 or 15 percent or less if they do poorly.

You're also not supposed to tip on the tax.
So if the total cost of the meal pre tax is $50.00 and $55.00 post tax and you wanted to tip 15 % you'd tip $7.50. not $8.25. Most people don't know the correct process here.

I've literally been stuffed by a drunk Brit before who ate full meal, paid, and left me a zero dollar tip which had nothing to do with my service, rather their drunkenness and spilling 2 drinks at the table. I chased them down to the parking lot and this conty Brit said that it was the Houses job to pay me. Her husband was an American but she wore the pants.

I told her that in America we tip the waiter, and if you were unhappy with the meal I would have been happy to allow management to discuss a way to make it better or comp something... But not tipping me was unacceptable as I did everything she asked.

The dude gave me a tip after I shamed them and they was the end of it.

That's not how this works in America and people who think that way need to not go out.

Not directed at you, but I'm legit disgusted that there are some here who think it's ok not to tip a waiter or waitress... Unless they were purposefully rude or treated someone like crap or the place was legit garbage... That speaks to the character of the person more than anything.

 

[Batman]

I hope you never set foot in my restaurant. You've got a fundamental misunderstanding of how the economics of the business works.

My opinion of you has dropped very significantly.

Economics of restaurants you mean? Basically I don't understand that why restaurants cannot survive without tips? Sure, I don't understand that.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Economics of restaurants you mean? Basically I don't understand that why restaurants cannot survive without tips? Sure, I don't understand that.

I am sure there's lots of things you don't understand. I've already demonstrated why your asinine comparison to your IT job demonstrates why you don't get it.

I think I've already explained above how the restaurant model works...and why you not tipping on principal only hurts employees doing a job. If you want to raise prices by forcing restaurants to pay a salary do so.

 

[Batman]

I am sure there's lots of things you don't understand. I've already demonstrated why your asinine comparison to your IT job demonstrates why you don't get it.

I think I've already explained above how the restaurant model works...and why you not tipping on principal only hurts employees doing a job. If you want to raise prices by forcing restaurants to pay a salary do so.

You've explained how it works, which is pretty self-evident, but not why. Why does it have to be this way when it's not this way in other countries? Why are restaurant owners not able to turn a profit unless they rely on customers to pay for their employees?

You keep talking about the economics of this as if it's some esoteric or complex topic, when it's really quite simple. I'd happily pay an extra 20-30% at any of my favorite establishment if I knew all the staff were being compensated fairly, and I'm sure most people would agree.

.......Also, if you're a restaurant owner, this explains why you're defending this so strongly. Being a restaurant owner basically requires you contribute to this massive gaslighting campaign.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

You've explained how it works, which is pretty self-evident, but not why. Why does it have to be this way when it's not this way in other countries? Why are restaurant owners not able to turn a profit unless they rely on customers to pay for their workers?


If you're a restaurant owner, this explains why you're defending this so strongly. Being a restaurant owner basically requires you contribute to this massive gaslighting campaign.

You don't understand how a business works.

Customers always pay for employees in order to turn a profit. Doesn't matter if you're working at Best buy or a restaurant

All overhead has to be covered by the product price to ensure profit and margin for continued business.

That's basic business admin 101.

If they stop the current model prices go up. It's that simple.

Again, I am questioning what you don't understand about this.

 

[Caduceus]

Yes, you're correct there is no national regulated standard, but many places put they on the menu that parties of XYZ size will automatically have a 20 percent gratuity fee atteched to the bill.

People who don't tip at all will just force restaurants to either do that or to subsidize the wages of their employees through price increases. Fucking economics huh? Crazy how that works....

I tend to not like minimum wage laws for tips, or percentages. A good waiter can get 25 or 30 percent tips by doing an excellent job. A crappy waiter might get 10 or 15 percent or less if they do poorly.

You're also not supposed to tip on the tax.
So if the total cost of the meal pre tax is $50.00 and $55.00 post tax and you wanted to tip 15 % you'd tip $7.50. not $8.25. Most people don't know the correct process here.

I've literally been stuffed by a drunk Brit before who ate full meal, paid, and left me a zero dollar tip which had nothing to do with my service, rather their drunkenness and spilling 2 drinks at the table. I chased them down to the parking lot and this conty Brit said that it was the Houses job to pay me. Her husband was an American but she wore the pants.

I told her that in America we tip the waiter, and if you were unhappy with the meal I would have been happy to allow management to discuss a way to make it better or comp something... But not tipping me was unacceptable as I did everything she asked.

The dude gave me a tip after I shamed them and they was the end of it.

That's not how this works in America and people who think that way need to not go out.

Not directed at you, but I'm legit disgusted that there are some here who think it's ok not to tip a waiter or waitress... Unless they were purposefully rude or treated someone like crap or the place was legit garbage... That speaks to the character of the person more than anything.

So what would you have done if this couple still refused to tip you after you chased them down ?
Seeing as it's not a legal requirement to tip in the USA, it's not like you could go to the police.

And would you have chased them down if they were black customers....who as far as I am aware very often do not tip at all, or in any case, do so far less than whites ?

 

[Batman]

You don't understand how a business works.

Customers always pay for employees in order to turn a profit. Doesn't matter if you're working at Best buy or a restaurant

All overhead has to be covered by the product price to ensure profit and margin for continued business.

That's basic business admin 101.

If they stop the current model prices go up. It's that simple.

Again, I am questioning what you don't understand about this.

What other business model is based around cutting wages of their employees to almost nothing then guilt tripping customers into contributing to a charity fund? This is a problem that is almost exclusive to the US, and that is the part I do not understand.

Another question - why don't any American restaurants try paying their wait staff more and increasing their prices accordingly? One likely reason is because waitresses don't even want that, they'd make less being paid a $15/hr wage, probably even $20/hr.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

So what would you have done if this couple still refused to tip you after you chased them down ?
Seeing as it's not a legal requirement to tip in the USA, it's not like you could go to the police.

And would you have chased them down if they were black customers....who as far as I am aware very often do not tip at all, or in any case, do so far less than whites ?

You're correct. As long as they paid for their meal it isn't criminal not to tip. Just a reflection on their shitty etiquette.

I would have called them scum and shamed them. I didn't have that issue with blacks. But we didn't have a lot of blacks come to our restaurant period.... But yes you do see this more often than with whites statistically.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

What other business model is based around cutting wages of their employees to almost nothing then guilt tripping customers into contributing to a charity fund? This is a problem that is almost exclusive to the US, and that is the part I do not understand.

Another question - why don't any American restaurants try paying their wait staff more and increasing their prices accordingly? One likely reason is because waitresses don't even want that, they'd make less being paid a $15/hr wage, probably even $20/hr.

Do you know what a 1099 employee is?

Again, demanding restaurants pay minimum wage out of their pocket affects Cashflow differently though payroll.

Vast majority of restaurants in the US are mom and pops. Maybe your concept works at Chiles but it won't work accross the board in other places.

As prices increase with inflation, so too should tip amounts.

I am only speaking from a fine dining experience...but waiters at a really nice place actually do a lot.

You should go ahead and tell people you don't tip from the first minute so the waiter knows ahead of time.

 

[Caduceus]

When you add both taxes and tips onto net menu prices, the USA is one the most expensive countries in the world to eat out.

 

[Batman]

Do you know what a 1099 employee is?

Yes, I've worked as one a few times. None of the business models were designed around guilt tripping customers to contributing to a charity fund, however.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Yes, I've worked as one. But the business model did not guilt trip customers to contributing to a charity fund.

Only you are projecting a guilt trip.

I don't associate it with a guilt trip, I associate it with someone doing their job.

The fact of the matter is that you know how it works and stiff them anyway.

That reflects great discredit upon you.

 

[Douglas Quaid]

The idea of tipping isn't a problem, especially at a sit down restaurant. Tipping at least 15% is expected in situations like that. Or even at a coffee shop or similar places. I add $1 in situations like that. It's the entitlement of people expecting too much for tips now (without providing any extra service), or expecting tips for jobs that never used to ask for them.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

The idea of tipping isn't a problem, especially at a sit down restaurant. Tipping at least 15% is expected in situations like that. Or even at a coffee shop or similar places. I add $1 in situations like that. It's the entitlement of people expecting too much for tips now (without providing any extra service), or expecting tips for jobs that never used to ask for them.

That is totally fair.

I always expected that I would get 15 percent unless I did something wrong. Rarely I didn't and I would try and see in my mind what I didn't do correctly so I could remediate for future encounters. When I usually got much more than that, I knew I was doing something well.

But I didn't treat customers like shit and assume I'd get anything.

Coffee shops don't run on tips, but if someone does something awesome otherwise I'll tip.

Bartenders who serve me quickly and provide a good service I tip well.

Bellmen and valleys I'll tip also.

 

[Thomas More]

Economics of restaurants you mean? Basically I don't understand that why restaurants cannot survive without tips? Sure, I don't understand that.

If tipping weren't expected in the US, then the restaurant would have to pay more wages, and would raise the prices to cover the additional cost. The increase in prices would be about what you pay in tips, so it's not like you would save money. So, tipping vs higher wages is six of one, half dozen of the other anyway.

Tipping is long established in American culture. It's not like you can just make everybody switch over to a non-tipping system. That's what it sounds like you are expecting, based on your decision to withhold tips from the wait staff that serves you in good faith.

Unless you find yourself in a position to force the US restaurant industry to switch over to a system of no tips and a living wage for waitstaff, the only reasonable thing to do is tip. If you don't, you're just freeloading and taking advantage of the poor unfortunate people that end up having you as their customer.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

If it's a restaurant I really like, especially a smaller one, I'll tip extra even if I don't sit down. I believe in voting with my dollar.

If for some reason I go to Starbucks (Queerbucks) and the machine is asking me to tip at the drive through, I'm not tipping anything.

 

[Batman]

If tipping weren't expected in the US, then the restaurant would have to pay more wages, and would raise the prices to cover the additional cost. The increase in prices would be about what you pay in tips, so it's not like you would save money.

Exactly, and I'd be perfectly happy with that, and so would most Americans. However, two points on this:

1) Why don't any restaurants do this? Why can't they have the same restaurant business model as the rest of the world?

2) If it was federally mandated that all wait staff at restaurants be paid, say, $16/hr, people would still tip them, due to it being so deeply rooted in our culture.

Unless you find yourself in a position to force the US restaurant industry to switch over to a system of no tips and a living wage for waitstaff, the only reasonable thing to do is tip. If you don't, you're just freeloading and taking advantage of the poor unfortunate people that end up having you as their customer.

I just don't agree with this. It's not my fault the system is fundamentally broken. I hate it so much, irrespective of all of this, I don't want to support restaurants period, and I avoid getting takeout, let alone dining in.

I only eat out a few times a year, at most, when i'm with a group of people who want to go.

 

[magoo]

In London some years ago the waiter salary was just tips. Freelance gigs. A friend of mine worked like this.

For a while thought about opening a small place in the beach. But not. Waiters are not easy people. If managing lawyers was already a nightmare. With restaurant waiters you have drugs, etc. Unless family owned. My wife aunt had a restaurant. My wife has no interest in dining out. Maybe if it´s japanese. First time I took her to a Tapas restaurant. She looked at it and asked: Are we supposed to eat those little sandwishes? An indian or african restaurant. Completely impossible. She has no joy in eating in restaurants. For her it´s money thrown to garbage.

Most owners say big restaurants are a prison. It´s your life.

Saw this movie boiling point. Don´t know how realistic it is. But it´s like a nighmare. Unless family or friend owned. The rotation is brutal. Friend of mine opened a small bar. He said keeping stock was brutal. The space to put stock. It was too small. So everyday he was dependent from the supplier not fucking up deliveries.

Big chains are all in debt. Banks and venture funds. Once took part for a while in a millions deal. Legal agreements with indexes you know youre dealing with high level scum. There are venture funds just for restaurants. They get comissions of the loans they make. One guy managed billions. Arrived in jeans and a shirt. When going back to airport he asked for a cab. No private driver nothing. He was funding 20M I think.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Exactly, and I'd be perfectly happy with that, and so would most Americans. However, two points on this:

1) Why don't any restaurants do this? Why can't they have the same restaurant business model as the rest of the world?

2) If it was federally mandated that all wait staff at restaurants be paid, say, $16/hr, people would still tip them, due to it being so deeply rooted in our culture.


I just don't agree with this. It's not my problem the system is broken. But like I said, I pretty much avoid going out to eat anyway. I only do it maybe 2-3x a year at most, and don't get much if any food if I do go.

Why can't we have the same shitty health care model as the rest of the world?

Why don't we have the same pension plan as Europe?

Why don't we have the same military draft requirement as other countries.

Why is the sky blue?

Frankly it doesn't really matter why it is the way it is IF* you know it is a certain way and still chose to stiff people.

Most people don't think the system is broken. Again....you are the one projecting here.

Most people accept the customary practice and work accordingly.

Why should this change just because you have a chip on your shoulder?

 

[Batman]

Pension plans and health care are regulated by the government, this is an issue with the free market, and is in fact is just as much a cultural issue brought on by decades of gaslighting from restaurant owners .

If the legal loophole that lets "tipped" employees get paid below minimum wage, was changed through legislation, this issue could potentially potentially be fixed to some extent though i'm sure it would put out a great number of restaurants out of business. Restaurants already have paper thin margins as it is and are one of the most failure-prone businesses out there...what does that say?

And yet I'll ask one more time: why don't any businesses try increasing their prices and paying their workers fairly? I've literally never heard of a single restaurant doing this.