Reprobates

S

Shaquilleoatmeal

Protestant
Romans 1:24-32 talks about being turned over to a reprobate mind:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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Pastor Anderson says sodomites can’t be saved.


He also mentions others who can’t be saved when talking about reprobates.

Do reprobates (people who have no hope of salvation despite being alive on Earth), exist? Discuss.
 
Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Romans 1:24-32 talks about being turned over to a reprobate mind:

Pastor Anderson says sodomites can’t be saved.


He also mentions others who can’t be saved when talking about reprobates.

Do reprobates (people who have no hope of salvation despite being alive on Earth), exist? Discuss.
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Only God knows who won't or can't be saved. Paul says he was the foremost of sinners, and he wasn't a homosexual.

There are some scary people in prisons, like serial killers or those who like to kidnap people and torture them to death. When I think of reprobates beyond redemption I think of those people. Yet it's not without the realm of possibility that God could save them.

I think it's Biblical to say the deeper someone sinks into sin the less likely it is that he will repent, because his conscience has been so hardened. Sin blinds and darkens the mind, and God's spirit stops striving with people.

"He who hardens his neck after many reproofs will suddenly be destroyed and that without remedy." - Proverbs 29
 
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Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Do reprobates (people who have no hope of salvation despite being alive on Earth), exist? Discuss.
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According to Romans 1, and many other passages, yes. Doesn't that contradict many of the popular, though unbiblical notions about God? Yes. What is the solution? Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. He mercies whom He mercies and He hardens whom He hardens.

Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Pastor Anderson says sodomites can’t be saved.
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I find his take underwhelming, here's why: If what he is saying is true, then not only homosexuality makes you a reprobate, but all of the other sins that Paul lists in Romans 1:29-32.

According to his view, all of these sins are unforgiveable. And yet elsewhere the Scriptures say that the only unforgiveable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Anderson is trying to single out homosexuality from the rest of the sins, which neither 1 Corinthians 6 nor Romans 1 do. The text straight up says "some of you were these things." Who is Anderson to disagree?

Also, Greeks, which is where Corinth was located, were well known homosexuals. Obviously, there are going to be Christian converts who repented of homosexuality, which is what Paul says they did.

Later on, he questions if "abusers of themselves with mankind" in the KJV refers to homosexuals, which is what the original Koine Greek says. Here's the thing: the Bible was not originally written in Jacobean English in 1611. It was written in the common Greek of the 1st century. Arsenokoitai means homosexuals. A perfect example of the folly of the cult-like, King James Only mindset.

Anderson's real angle here is that he doesn't believe in Lordship Salvation. He believes in faith without repentance. Obviously, "some of you were homosexuals but now you've been justified, sanctified, washed" teaches repentance.
 
GodfatherPartTwo said:
According to Romans 1, and many other passages, yes. Doesn't that contradict many of the popular, though unbiblical notions about God? Yes. What is the solution? Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. He mercies whom He mercies and He hardens whom He hardens.


I find his take underwhelming, here's why. If what he is saying is true, then not only homosexuality makes you a reprobate, but all of the other sins that Paul lists in Romans 1:29-32.

According to his view, all of these sins are unforgiveable. And yet elsewhere the Scriptures say that the only unforgiveable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 6:9, Anderson is trying to single out homosexuality from the rest of the sins, which neither 1 Corinthians 6 nor Romans 1 do. The text straight up says "some of you were these things." Who is Anderson to disagree?

Also, Greeks, which is where Corinth was located, were well known homosexuals. Obviously, there are going to be Christian converts who repented of homosexuality, which is what Paul says they did.

Later on, he questions if "abusers of themselves with mankind" in the KJV refers to homosexuals, which is what the original Koine Greek says. Here's the thing: the Bible was not originally written in Jacobean English in 1611. It was written in the common Greek of the 1st century. Arsenokoitai means homosexuals. A perfect example of the folly of the cult-like, King James Only mindset.

Anderson's real angle here is that he doesn't believe in Lordship Salvation. He believes in faith without repentance. Obviously, "some of you were homosexuals but now you've been justified, sanctified, washed" teaches repentance.
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Pastor Anderson personifies the worst of Baptist fundamentalists.

He singles out homosexuality as an unforgivable sin, which is not Biblical.

He believes faith can be separated from repentance; he says "turning from sin" is a works-based heresy.

He preaches that The KJV(which I love) is the only true Bible.

I think James White criticized him for all these things.
 
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JCSteel said:
Pastor Anderson personifies the worst of Baptist fundamentalists.

He singles out homosexuality as an unforgivable sin, which is not Biblical.

He believes faith can be separated from repentance; he says "turning from sin" is a works-based heresy.

He preaches that The KJV(which I love) is the only true Bible.
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While all of that is true, I do respect his zeal and his desire to defend against liberalism in the Church. There's other points I agree with him on. I just find his methodology to be counter-intuitive. The thing with fundamentalism is that everything becomes fundamental. But not everything can be fundamental, that defeats what fundamental even means. You either agree with everything or you get tossed into the Lake of Fire.

Every major Christian branch has their liberals, their fundamentalists, and their Evangelicals who are somewhere in between.
 
JCSteel said:
Pastor Anderson personifies the worst of Baptist fundamentalists.

He singles out homosexuality as an unforgivable sin, which is not Biblical.

He believes faith can be separated from repentance; he says "turning from sin" is a works-based heresy.

He preaches that The KJV(which I love) is the only true Bible.
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“Pastor” Stephen Anderson is a retarded edgelord
 
The only thing that separates the elect and the reprobate is a five-letter word called grace, because both groups have rightly earned the wrath of God on the basis of their own works, which are sinful. We either get God's Mercy or we get His Justice, no one ever receives unfairness from God.
 
Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Jonah 3:10 clearly states repenting of sins is works based.
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2 Timothy 2:25 ...with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may give them repentance leading to the full knowledge of the truth, 26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
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Two things here. Repentance is a gift from God. Man is either a slave of God or the devil. He is not autonomous and his will is not free. Repentance should not be rejected because it is not a works-based endeavor. Like all good things, it is ultimately the gift of God given to us, not something we autonomously work in ourselves to earn salvation from God.
 
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GodfatherPartTwo said:
Two things here. Repentance is a gift from God. Man is either a slave of God or the devil. He is not autonomous and his will is not free. Repentance should not be rejected because it is not a works-based endeavor. Like all good things, it is ultimately the gift of God given to us, not something we autonomously work in ourselves to earn salvation from God.
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Repentance is good, but it is works.
 
Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Repentance is good, but it is works.
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So my citation of 2 Timothy doesn't mean anything to you? Yes, it is a work. It is the work of God gifted to you. All I'm saying is that the God who gifted you the faith to believe in Him will also gift you the repentance to persevere in Him. Since you reject that repentance is a gift, what role do you leave for it, or is there no role for repentance? You don't think that those who have faith in God are going to change their lives (admittedly, not perfectly) based on their faith in Him?

If you're talking about doing penance to earn God's grace, then that is indeed a works-based heresy. That is not what repentance means. But there's a dangerous extreme on the other side as well.
 
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GodfatherPartTwo said:
So my citation of 2 Timothy doesn't mean anything to you? Yes, it is a work. It is the work of God gifted to you.
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That’s a contradiction. A gift is something you accept and once you receive it, it’s yours to keep with no effort.
GodfatherPartTwo said:
All I'm saying is that the God who gifted you the faith to believe in Him will also gift you the repentance to persevere in Him. Since you reject that repentance is a gift, what role do you leave for it, or is there no role for repentance?
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Repentance helps you achieve greater rewards in heaven.
 
Shaquilleoatmeal said:
That’s a contradiction. A gift is something you accept and once you receive it, it’s yours to keep with no effort.
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It's not a contradiction at all. God's giving us repentance is His work, His energy, His Grace. He is the one "causing us to will and to work according to His good pleasure." Nothing about accepting or rejecting free gifts. That assumption is the true man-centered, works-based salvation. It's not my decision to accept or reject, as Romans 9 says, it's not up to the will of man but up to God who has mercy.

Shaquilleoatmeal said:
Repentance helps you achieve greater rewards in heaven.
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I don't deny that. But it's also true that being repentant is also necessary. So its a good thing that God gives it to us just as He also gives us faith.
Luke 13:2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you think that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered these things? 3I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. 4Or do you think that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse offenders than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
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As long as someone is alive, there is hope of salvation. This is why murder is such a grave matter and not to be done lightly even in self-defense or in war.

If you look into it, sodomy is not even a worse sin than the consumption of pornography. In fact, traditionally, masturbation was itself classified as sodomy, and for good reason. If homosexuals are reprobates, then I am beyond screwed.
 
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Jesus:
Mark 4:10 And when He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to those who are outside, everything comes in parables, 12so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, LEST THEY RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN.”
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Paul:
Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to an unfit mind, to do those things which are not proper...
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John:
John 12:39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40“HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, LEST THEY SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART, AND RETURN AND I HEAL THEM.”
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Peter:
1 Peter 2:7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, “THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone,” 8 and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE.” They stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this stumbling they were also appointed.
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According to St. John Chrysostom, Isaiah's prophecy does not mean God causes spiritual blindness in people who would otherwise have been faithful. This is a figure of speech common to Scripture revealing God as giving people up to their own devices (as in Rom 1:24, 26). What is meant by 'He has blinded' is that God has permitted their self-chosen blindness (compare Ex 8:15, 32 with Ex 10:20, 27). They did not become blind because God spoke through Isaiah, but rather Isaiah spoke because he foresaw their blindness.
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From the OSB
 
Sovereignty of God:
God will not, man cannot.

Autonomy of Man:
Man will not, God cannot.

The Scriptures describe God as being autonomous and sovereign over His creation, which includes us. We do not allow God to do anything. If you're holding onto the unbiblical notion of man's autonomy, it will cause you to filter out all the Scriptures that say "man cannot believe" and reinterpret them as "man will not believe." Now both of those statements are true, but the first too often gets tossed out in favor of the latter because it doesn't appeal to human sense. Man cannot and will not believe without the Grace of God.

Not does God ever learn anything about us. He knows everything we would do when He created us. He doesn't need to "look down the corridors of time" to find out if we were going to be more righteous than the next person. He is the potter, we are the clay.
 
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