I don't think that in and of itself is propaganda. However, the real "propaganda" is the belief that all it takes is a bunch of resources. Unless we're talking insane financial resources aka the type that will get young women to fly to Dubai to meet the supposed man of their dreams, women won't choose a man off money alone. Not even a 30 year old will, so why would a 20 year old do that?
Additional factors, like being in shape, humor/charisma, social intelligence and confidence etc., are often glossed over.
Human connection actually matters. In a job interview does the objectively best candidate always get the job? Not really. And if you or any man at some point in the point in the conversation notices that the CEO or HR person is from his hometown, loves the Lakers, isn't vaxxed, loves the great outdoors or whatever, that man will absolutely try to use it to his advantage.
Some guys honestly wish they could just focus on work and create a profile somewhere for the dads of virgin girls to then send them a message and arrange everything for them. No approach anxiety or rejection needed. Unfortunately, we won't live to see that day.
All of us want a beautiful, young wife. We have to be honest that women also care about appearance. Certainly less than men do, but it is a factor and men should not delay too long either. I have heard it said women peak at 16-25 and men at 27-36. If you ask ChatGPT it gives you 18-24 for women and 28-35 for men.
By their late 30s, most men start declining and it's an uphill battle against father time, so best to focus all your efforts on this earlier. I have friends that peaked in their mid 20s and look balding and oldish by 30, so part of it is luck of the draw. If you missed the window, don't despair because it's only one factor and a 40 year old man is still better off than a 30 year old woman.
That being said, an 18 year old woman may be attracted to a 35 year old man more than young men of her age, but the 35 year old has to contend against the social stigma against age gaps. Though I have seen evidence this barrier is weaking recently, and will continue to weaken due to 1) lower standards of living and 2) a right-wing shift in the US. But it will take some time to normalize compared to the rest of the world, so it's still better to be under 30 or early 30s at most in the US.
| Region | 28M + 18F Stigma | 28M + 24F Stigma | 35M + 18F Stigma | 35M + 24F Stigma | Notes |
|---|
| U.S./Canada |  Moderate |  Low |  High | Moderate | 28M dating 18F somewhat accepted but still young woman is very young. 35M + 18F often viewed as predatory. |
| UK/Nordics/France | Moderate | Low | High | Moderate | Similar to U.S., strong focus on youth independence and consent. |
| Southern Europe | Low | Low |  Moderate | Low | More traditional culture; older man dating young woman more accepted. |
| Eastern Europe/Balkans | Low | Low | Low | Low | Wide social acceptance for both age pairings. |
| Russia/CIS | Low | Low | Low | Low | Similar to Balkans, normalized and common. |
| Middle East/North Africa | Low | Low | Low | Low | Large age gaps are normalized; low stigma in most contexts. |
| Latin America | Low | Low | Low | Low | Masculinity and maturity highly valued, wide acceptance. |
| South Asia | Low | Low | Low | Low | Culturally common in arranged and traditional settings. |
| East Asia | Moderate | Low | Moderate | Low | Younger urban generations more critical; conservative areas more accepting. |
Did you create that table? Nice work regardless.
These posts are real, red pill takes that involve a lot of inter-related complex ideas. The median age of CIK members seems to be around 35-45 so this post won't be easy to swallow for men who are older and single. Still, at any age, it's important for people to challenge idealised fantasies that won't actually help themselves or others to achieve their goals.
On multiple occasions on RVF, and to this day on CIK, I have read about the following three ideas. All of these notions have some truth and value to them, but are fundamentally flawed.
Note.
> A. I am challenging specific theories, and I am not judging members here for their situations or personal decisions.
> B. Above all, I want all members to remember that general trends are just that - general, and don't necessarily constrain your individual potential.
As individuals we have the power to break through broader trends of the ordinary, if we are willing to be extraordinary.
1. "Men don't have a wall, or if they do, it's like 50 or later. Look at X 60-year-old celebrity who just had a kid with a 25-year-old. Women want a high value male with resources, and resources take time to accumulate."
Short response:
- Every human has a wall, it's just that women peak earlier and quicker relative to men. Men aged 35+ are considered "old" to the most attractive women -- i.e., women in their 20s, especially 25 and under.
- Aside from particularly poor countries, the most common age gap appears to sit between 1-4 years. The acceptability of the gap is usually decided by the woman, because women are usually the ones who have the most power over selection. Men would go younger if they could.
- Health is central to every aspect of functioning -- including dating and relationships -- and for the vast majority of men, they're going to have more energy, health, physical freedom etc in their 20s vs their 30s, in their 30s vs their 40s, etc. Men's sperm also degrades over time, especially when exposed to modern chemicals, pollution etc.
- Last, relying on outliers to make a general point is not very persuasive. What mega-rich or famous men get away with is irrelevant to the other 99.9%.
Personal reflection: I consider me and my friends in their 30s and 40s to be still growing and yet to have peaked in terms of overall contributions to society, intellectual might, useful wisdom, etc. We all take good care of bodies, yet none of us have the health and energy as before. That alone makes keeping up with 20-somethings considerably harder, even if we wanted to.
Further discussion:
We routinely tease women aged over 35 who are delusional because they confused their sexual market value with their wifey market value, because they wanted a "career first" and now their eggs are gone, etc. Men are less likely to be delusional, but (we all) still have our own biases. One of the major myths in the manosphere is that "there is no male wall" or a "man peaks in his late 30s or 40s". This is comforting when you are a manosphere guru preaching to men at that age or younger, saying things like "don't settle, don't get married, take your time, you only get better" etc.
If late 30s to 40s was truly the peak then the most attractive adult women aged 20-25 would NOT typically marry men who are within 1-3 years of their own age. But they do. At least in the modern world.
Source
[Quote snipped]
(ii) it is possible to have an age gap that is too large. This reflection is backed up by
considerable amount of data [LINK] across countries that reveals large age gaps increase the risk of divorce (albeit this research is heavily biased towards modern Western sources). This could be related to many reasons which I'll have to cover in another post.
For me, well my EX was nowhere near close to being ready for kids. She was heading towards her mid 20s, a generally glorious time for a woman, and she was starting to see her true potential in many areas of life. She wanted to travel more. I was satisfied with my travels. For me at the time, 40-45 was on the horizon, and without children in the picture (whereas my now-wife has blessed me with children).
(iii) Another critical lesson for me was that taking on a young woman, especially a virgin for a girlfriend and potential wife entails
VERY HIGH LEVELS of responsibility, patience, and daily leadership. This is a clear downside for many men who get naturally frustrated when dealing with such immaturity
relative to their own age.
Hence the acceptance of trade-offs is a necessary step in the whole process of finding and selecting
any woman.
link:
https://christisking.cc/threads/marriage-virgins-vs-non-virgins.850/page-3#post-38821
Also:
Although the age of women is a stronger factor in determining the viability of pregnancy compared to age of men, older men (35 - 45+) are still likely to have more issues pre-conception due to degraded sperm quality, DNA damage, etc, and to have more problems with their children's health**
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-n...rs-associated-with-increased-birth-risks.html
** Caveats. This doesnt touch on the challenges for older parents once the baby arrives - e.g., lower energy, more health issues, etc. Developing wealth over time does improve quality of life, increases social status, and makes men more attractive. However it's not an elixir to solve all problems associated with aging, large age gaps, unrealised personal development, etc.
Link:
https://christisking.cc/threads/older-men-younger-women.971/page-4#post-85312
2. "Western women are ruined so I'm going to fixate on stacking cash and leave the country when I get X amount of money. Then I'll move overseas to a poorer country where I'll have heaps of money and higher status and that'll solve any problems relating to women."
Short response:
- This approach may reduce the impact of some problems. Yet it may also increase the impact of other problems or introduce new problems that didn't exist before.
- Notably, fixating on money at the expense of self-reflection and social skills is a recipe for disaster in the long haul. You can buy attention and short-term investment, but not sustainable respect and attraction.
- Large age gaps can create their own problems, such as differences in lifestyle values.
- Then there's the issues of living in another country, if the man wants kids, etc. Trade-offs are inescapable. Try not to fixate on imagining a life without problems to solve. Changing environments can make a big difference to someone's quality of life; however, a stubborn mindset of cynicism and negativity won't be solved by anything external.
Personal reflection: a lot of my friends ended up with women who were either not Anglo or typically Aussie, so I strongly empathise with this desire to escape.
The bigger issue with this money-based strategy is that:
(a) it's a naive, simplistic, normie approach that ignores deeper truths about female attraction and emotional engagement, and
(b) it traps men in a cycle of working till exhaustion and even death, just to provide a lifestyle good enough to keep their woman from leaving.
F that. IMO it's better to be single than be with a woman who doesn't respect you and only got with you and stays with you because of your resource provision. Yet men can also dig their own early graves by leading with money. "I bought a lambo to get more girls. Now I got more girls, cool. But now they want more things... ugh, why do all women just want money!?" That's an own goal my dude.
Further discussion:
There is a common idea that simply having more money, more status, or even changing locations will solve one's problems with women. While there is some truth to this idea, there are often many other truths left out of this conversation.
Being the breadwinner is not a problem per se. Rather, what can create heartache is an over-reliance on material provision to sustain respect, attraction, and attachment. Put simply, this will not work. Unless, that is, a man has no problems with being perpetually seen as a walking ATM.
A reliance on the external violates a key premise of red pill relationships 101 - she must respect you. So, it pays to beware of putting too much emphasis on attraction proxies, as these can be a crutch for generating genuine attraction and attachment.
Social status and monetary wealth can generate very strong interest from women in the short term, and in general, are highly correlated with mating success in the longer-term. However, ongoing respect, attraction, and love cannot be bought. If this premise was false, you wouldn't hear about rich or famous men getting dumped or beta-ised and nagged to the point of heart failure. This is why ignoring the value of "game" or social skils, not grasping the psychology of women, and generally getting lazy post-commitment leads to so many unwanted consequences
Link:
https://christisking.cc/threads/is-...ter-online-dating-apps.1014/page-4#post-60793
3. "Putting effort into your youthful appearance is gay. Skincare is for women and homos. Putting too much time and energy into attracting women anyway screams desperation. You're scared of a few wrinkles and grey hairs? LOL. Weak."
Short response:
- Improving your overall health is likely to have indirect effects on your appearance and vitality.
- The older the man is perceived to be, the more likely that younger women will treat him as a money / resource extraction device.
- So, reducing the perceived age gap is in the best interest of the man.
What he sees vs what she sees:
Personal reflection: my wife and mother of my children is 10+ years younger than me, and my prior long-term girlfriend was around 15 years younger. One of the core reasons why these relationships ever got off the ground was because -- from the very beginning --
they did not perceive that our age difference was particularly large. If they knew about the precise age gap from the start, it is likely that neither relationship would have happened at all.
Further discussion:
...some men here clearly have a distaste for maintaining appearances, especially when it comes to attracting women. To some extent I absolutely agree, in that, fixating over one's own appearance is the realm of women and homos.
Ultimately, I think it's up to the individual to determine if the meaning and utility attached to their goals justifies the cost undertaken and the effort needed to reach these said goals.
I have a post on this in the works. In summary:
The ideal aim of the suggested youth-giving endeavours (such as working out, skincare, eating well, avoiding *excessive* sunlight, etc) is first, to make you feel great and improve your confidence and your health; and second, for you to be more attractive to women.
Unless a man wants to rely on money, materials, and status alone as leverage to get younger women (which puts them at risk of becoming a walking ATM, resource extraction device, and unseen social media photographer)... this is one critical key to being attractive to much younger women and maintaining the relationship:
Cultivating a look of youth, positive upbeat energy, and ongoing proactive commitment to health... that together give you a genuine feeling of being younger than your biological age
Link:
https://christisking.cc/threads/sunscreen-good-or-bad.817/page-3#post-36875
Also:
Before my wife, I had a long relationship with a young woman who was, relative to my own looks/status, very physically attractive. I met her through cold approach in a shopping centre. Initially she was not that interested but in time grew very attached. Now, she was a virgin in her early 20s and I was mid 30s. She was not poor. So she didn't need money from me. Of her friends that had BFs, all the BFs were within 1-3 years of their age. So our age gap was the clear outlier of relationships in her social circle.
On the 3rd date, she asked me how old I was, and I told her the truth. She was shocked, but was already quite attracted and invested, so it didn't stop things escalating. Later, she told me that if she knew my age at the very start she would have disqualified me instantly. I don't doubt it. One lesson from this follows:
(i) the only way this relationship ever happened, was because I put in a huge amount of effort into not just learning how to approach and attract girls, and maintain a relationship, but also, how to take care of myself both internally and externally. Genetics help a lot, but so does everything else - sleep, exercise, drinking water, skincare, diet, etc.
Link:
https://christisking.cc/threads/marriage-virgins-vs-non-virgins.850/page-3#post-38821
