• ChristIsKing.eu has moved to ChristIsKing.cc - see the announcement for more details. If you don't know your password PM a mod on Element or via a temporary account here to confirm your username and email.

Income inequality in the US

bubs

Protestant
Heritage
The title probably makes me sound like some kind of socialist wealth redistribution nutjob, but hear me out, I fully support a common sense meritocracy, where people who have greater skils and work harder (or combo) get paid more than the next person. But reading many articles where CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are making anywhere from 200-300 times in base salary compared to the median salary of all others in the company. Is the value of this 1 individual really warrant such an exponential higher value (before tacking on the exponential bonuses, other benefits, perks etc. etc). Are the top executives really in such low supply out there in each industry to command this magnitude of higher pay? It seems like if there were some way in our US Capitalist society to figure out how to implement a more linear meritocracy from lowest to highest positions our society would be in alot better shape vs. the disparity pay trends over last few decades. Why do shareholders and owners pay these CEOs these rates vs. promoting up from within a Senior VP for example and give them a 10-20% bump up (and a competent Director under the VP gets promoted to VP w/ a 10-20% bump and so on down the line (for a very basic corporate pay scenario). Perhaps several tiers of position grades with only a 20x difference from janitor to CEO ($40K for the janitor to $800K salary for CEO). Just wanted to get other perspectives on why this doesn't exist or if it would be a good idea/bad idea, how could it be implemented, avoid corruption/loopholes etc.
Here's an article I found (a little dated), but gets to the point anyway... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/f...00-times-more-than-their-employees-2018-05-16
 
The big example of this that in the news is Elon Musk's pay package. He arranged a package 10 years ago with zero salary, and all stock option incentives, based on various performance milestones.

Once of the biggest incentives was based on increasing the market capitalization of the company. It was $60 billion back then, and had additional payments calculated for increases up to 10x the value at that time.

There are lots of articles and video clips from that time mocking the ridiculous impossibility of increasing the company's market cap 10x, from $60B to $600B, but sure enough, he did it it, and qualified for the package of stock options, worth over $50 billion.

People raised a stink and said there's no way he earned $50 billion, but his pay was negotiated ahead of time for milestones that were widely considered to be impossible. I'd say he earned it. He raised the company's value by over $500 billion, and got $50 billion in return.

When the board of Tesla awarded the payments, the State of Delaware blocked the payments in court, due to a shareholder suing to block it. Musk responded by moving the company from Delaware to Texas. This was completed within the past couple weeks, and now the board was able to pay him as agreed in his contract.
 
Income inequality is one thing but people will not be able to build wealth if usury and banking are not completely reformed. `Banks hold notes on retail space and owners charge exorbitant rents to tenants making it hard for small business and job creation. `Commercial real estate is only now beginning to crash but is being artificially propped up by banks by keeping properties off the market. Homeowners pay most of their monthly payments in interest for many years because the interest on loans is charged up front on the mortgage making it difficult to accumulate equity without home values increasing making ownership out of reach for most people.

Also, flooding a nations borders with mass immigration keeps wages down as well as moving women into the workplace. It cuts wages in half and make the prospect of having children daunting.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if 70% of my income went to taxes, fees and interest. Who wants to sit down and do those calculations? Not me.
 
Yes, I feel your sentiment @bubs. Income inequality in this country is awful, but we should be wise enough to avoid complaint about symptoms of the real problem driving such inequality.

From my observations, true root cause is: our currency. Given that our currency is not real and does not store value, compensation reflects the values of that currency. The welder who spends all day joining metal together and creating a form of lasting wealth is compensated poorly, whereas the money changer (investment banker) and lawyer types who contribute net zero in terms of real wealth creation are compensated incredibly well.

CEO’s get paid so much because of their access to power and the money printer. That’s it. Id reference the precious metals threads for arguments for a gold or other commodity backed currency. But right now, the name of the game is access to liquidity, so those people who are able to provide that access get paid.

This is also driving our labor shortage. Working in the federal government in DC doing nothing all day pays MUCH more than being a plumber in a small town somewhere. That tells you all you need to know.

Show me the incentive, and I’ll show you the outcome.
 
Yes, people who can run a business effectively are absolutely in short supply and they always have been it's just worse than ever now.

I'm not going to argue if something is fair or not that's for children but anyone who owns a business knows the value and reason why one person is the boss and the other is an employee. An employee cannot do the job of the boss, if he could someone would have made him a boss of something already....trust me I wish my employees could do my job I would expand exponentially and bring them all along for the ride. Most of the time it's not a matter of skills, most people just want to skate on by with their easy lives and they're fine with that....no ambition and drive. Mind you there isn't necessarily something wrong with that, but then don't complain that you have less than the next guy.

The real issue is the cost of living not inequality, things should not be as expensive as they are and people should not be living in debt their entire lives. The cost of living is high to prop up the people and government who contribute nothing and as far as debt....well don't get me started.
 
CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are making anywhere from 200-300 times in base salary compared to the median salary of all others in the company. Is the value of this 1 individual really warrant such an exponential higher value (before tacking on the exponential bonuses, other benefits, perks etc. etc). Are the top executives really in such low supply out there in each industry to command this magnitude of higher pay?

When dealing with this topic it's important to include some hard truths. Over the last ten years or so I've seen more and more right-leaning people make left-wing arguments that are at best distorted. This owing to the reality that lower-income earners should really be part of more of a socially right-wing movement now.

First is that the value of lower skilled (and repetitive) labour is diminishing. As the complexity of the economy grows, the value of lower skill labour deceases, while the value of the products such labourers help produce can increase. There are now very few sychters, blacksmiths, barrel makers etc. as the skills have been superseded. And if you are in a broad hi-tech economy, the presence of such sectors that produce more wealth increasingly automate and improve production processes; as well as the increased wealth making those products cost more than they otherwise would. So compare Bulgaria where you can get an egg for less than 10 cents, and then San Francisco where they cost 50 cents.

If you are a low skilled worker, you are in the situation where the value of your work is decreasing while the value of the overall economy is increasing. In the UK the is alleviated by the government constantly increasing the minimum wage to keep such earners more comfortable. While more middle class earners' wages are stagnating. In short the government is redistributing more fruit of production to people who produce less.

This last sentence is important to understand. As despite the rhetoric of various people, as a lifelong minimum wage worker you are a very large beneficiary of the work of other people who produce more and earn more. In the UK, the average minimum wage worker will pay for their healthcare, which is about 20% of the government budget.

Poor people are not being stolen from, particularly since WWII, poorer people have always been giant net beneficiaries of society. And there is a minority that produces most of the wealth.

In terms of skills becoming redundant, the same happened in the 19th century. But the difference then is people with mid- to higher-IQ went into growing positions, like clerks, police, and various roles in industry. Now jobs like cashier, fruit picker, gardener, accountant and others are decreasing in value, and becoming redundant.

You can see this discourse in WEF-type globalist tracts. My point is not to take their technocratic position. Rather just to illustrate what they say is true. Although they don't speak very publicly about these real nuts and bolts of the economy. You will be more familiar with their public branding.

So while there are various reasons for the decline of the middle class, like mass unwanted immigration, coerced urbanisation, unsound mony and so on - the elephant in the room and the biggest reason for "income inequality" is that more and more people are becoming less and less productive. And the system we inhabit has no intention of such people working. Their intention is to put them on UBI and sate them with various consumables.

Returning to the original quote above. As the economy gets more complex, the most productive people will create dramatically more wealth than the people who are becoming economically irrelevant. It would make sense that the most important get huge compensation. Which is not to say there are not parasites at the higher end of the economy too.


It seems like if there were some way in our US Capitalist society

The US is not a capitalist society. Total taxation in the US is about 45% and has been around that level most of the time since WWII. If you are a highly productive person in California you may be paying something like 65% of your income in real taxation. Should it be considered capitalist along with me who pays virtually 0% taxation in the Middle East?

The only capitalist countries are most Gulf countries, Hong Kong and Singapore. Not considering micronations and dependencies. The basic definition of capitalism is "an economic and political system in which a country's businesses are controlled by private owners for profit. How true is that for the US with its giant regulation and bureaucracy? What percentage could we say businesses decisions are controlled by private owners? I'd take a guess at 70%. When it comes to profit, they are paying more than 50% in real taxation. The US and all Western countries are social democracies, where the democracy is in name only.

In Western countries only around 7% of people will be net tax payers in their lifetime. The rest of the population are essentially beneficiaries. If we consider full communism and anarchocapitalism to be the extremes of the economic spectrum, the US is left of centre. And it's the left of centre nature of economics which is the basis for ceaseless movements left. The vast majority of people are reliant on the government to prop up their standard of living via wealth redistribution. Once that's in place it won't end until it's inevitable collapse. In any temporal distribution there are always going to be more people who are lower down than higher up. Thus in a "democratic" system, you will find every country that institutes this system ends up in the same predicament - widespread wealth distribution from the more to less productive. In such a system, the power remains in place so long as they can keep people relatively comfortable with this distribution. Where you see a change or severe stress is in countries where that system has failed (Argentina) or on life support (Italy). If Argentina had remained stable it would never have elected Milei, whose policies are are favourable to wealth producers, rather than people who garner redistribution.

So when people talk about being entitled to government services because they have paid their "fair share". This is not based in reality.

Why do shareholders and owners pay these CEOs these rates vs. promoting up from within a Senior VP for example and give them a 10-20% bump...

They sometimes pay those rates and get bad results. They hope for good results. The fact is that all human organisation works top down. Only a few people are incredibly good at a job, incredibly productive. The leadership position is the most important. If that is off, then everything below it is effected. Companies willingly pay such huge amounts to CEO, because the job is they top down organise massive growth. As you move down the organisation, the value of contributions should decrease. The companies willingly pay these sums, because it's worth it in a highly socialised economy. If the CEOs were all inept and stealing, then companies' ability to pay such sums would soon decrease.
 
Correct, and I just want to note as well that the multicultural aspect of the western nations has also led to a less communal or neighborly instinct (let's call it) to their people since largely, that people doesn't exist anymore - it exists as a civic reality, not a unified country and people.

First is that the value of lower skilled (and repetitive) labour is diminishing. As the complexity of the economy grows, the value of lower skill labour deceases, while the value of the products such labourers help produce can increase.
There is no doubt. Looking into automization and the full throes of robotics, which will likely take longer than they think, but who knows, this is almost full on shock value for the average man. That makes me wonder, @Cynllo what's your view on the depopulation agenda, as it seems therefore natural in terms of where the world is going and what the leaders of the economy desire?
The only capitalist countries are most Gulf countries, Hong Kong and Singapore.
Indeed.
 
I'll say one more thing about this, being a hard worker does not necessarily correlate to being able to run a business. One may be required for the other but having one does not mean you automatically have the other, they are not the same skill set whatsoever. I know first hand with the hardest worker I have that I tried to branch off to a new business, to my dismay he failed spectacularly and it had nothing to do with work ethic. I had to step in and take over getting my tail kicked for months until it was doing well enough to bribe my younger sister to leave her cushy lab job and come take over.
 
The issue isn't the CEOs or management.

The issue is low cost labor and outsourcing work abroad as well as the devaluation or wages through illegals and the work force.

I have no problem with the CEOs making 40 mil a year as long as they drive share price up as an investor.

What i do have a problem is that because there is so much low cost labor here and abroad through illegal means, many Americans lose their jobs.

I say that and I work for a very large company that is a household name... And make a very generous living.

It still bothers me seeing Indians doing work Americans could do.... But sadly that's the reality many companies are going to.
 
The title probably makes me sound like some kind of socialist wealth redistribution nutjob
No, it doesn't.
If you look at the REAL history of America, you will see that when we had real money and a real two party system, corporate leaders were paid a multiple of maybe a dozen times what other workers made, and no politician of any stripe would ever allow the rapacious system we have today. In fact, just look at any true "right wing" government of the past hundred years and you will see how harshly and viciously they went after greedy capitalists and you will realize that a sense of embarrassment for wanting a natural populist idea like fair wages and fair treatment for workers is totally misplaced as this was just as much a right wing idea as a left one (or to be more accurate, it is that the left / right dichotomy is a fake invention of the 20th century, but most people are so ingrained in the bifurcated political world that they cannot think that way).
Is the value of this 1 individual really warrant such an exponential higher value (before tacking on the exponential bonuses, other benefits, perks etc. etc). Are the top executives really in such low supply out there in each industry to command this magnitude of higher pay?
Of course not. And there are plenty of examples of the idiocy of some of these "leaders" who come in and totally destroy a perfectly working company, and then leave with a "golden parachute" of millions of dollars when they destroy it. It's funny how when you argue for traditionalism, someone will inevitably bring up the occasional neer-do-well bad son who became king and made some bad decisions that his advisors were not able to stop, but you'll never hear the argument that the CEO is actively destructive to the economy of the nation. I guess bad genes only happen in monarchs?

This is where the "too big to fail" idea has merit--the incompetencies of leaders can actually cause exponential damage if they destroy companies who employ thousands of people who rely on that company to pay their mortgages, and feed and clothe their families.

Henry Ford famously ran his company on a multiple of 15 times the factory worker's pay--and he was the CREATOR of Ford Motors! He also doubled worker pay once his cars began selling. Not gave a nice raise or bonus. DOUBLED pay. That just doesn't happen today.

But yeah the current CEO earnings multiples are absurd.

Wikipedia.jpg


America had PLENTY of wealthy corporations in the 1960s--General Motors actually had a MAJORITY share of car sales, and has greatly declined its market share since then. An honest, God-fearing, talented, Christian man of good conscious could make a phenomenal living earning 20 times what his workers do.

And as they grew the company more and more, everyone could share equally in that growth, as was done until around 1980, or it could all be hoarded by one man.

wages2_arrow.jpg


I've known one CEO--not particularly bright. He has a lot of *responsibility* -- basically just whatever happens keep things running well and DO NOT SCREW UP but it's honestly not that hard of a job (this is a sample size of 1 but let's be real, the CEO is rarely if ever doing the important work--he is delegating). I've also run a (quite) small business, and the idea that I would make 300 times what the actual producers in the business brought in is just gross and sick to me (so if a guy was making $50,000 I should justify earning 300x or $15 million just by managing a bunch of guys like him?)

But @Uzisuicide is right, this all stems from the fiat money system, formalized in 1914 and consecrated in 1971.

ei7oxspxgamaayl.png


cummulative-inflation.jpg


It seems like if there were some way in our US Capitalist society to figure out how to implement a more linear meritocracy from lowest to highest positions
That is not capitalism. It is fascism.
Now think about why you have been raised since birth to despise that word.

The US is not a capitalist society. Total taxation in the US is about 45% and has been around that level most of the time since WWII. If you are a highly productive person in California you may be paying something like 65% of your income in real taxation. Should it be considered capitalist along with me who pays virtually 0% taxation in the Middle East?

The only capitalist countries are most Gulf countries, Hong Kong and Singapore.
There is this libertarian idea that still persists that "capitalism" and "free market" is the ultimate ideal, because it theoretically means a small government (I used to believe in small government; I no longer do, but nevertheless trying to argue for that while living in the single largest, most oppressive behemoth of a government in history is laughable).

The US is utterly capitalist in that it rewards capital, or the owners of usury, over the productive classes, ie the worker / wages. Real Wage growth has declined for decades while owners of capital have grown more wealthy.

The operation of the US government is focused on ideological and "value" goals such as "gayness should spread freely throughout the world and we will oppress and punish nations which try to restrict it, while rewarding those who encourage its growth."

And when you look at countries in the Gulf, or say Singapore, what you will find is that they direct a lot of efforts not in ideological shenanigans, but in making the lives of the people better--what was called socialism in the 1940s. That is why in Qatar for example, when you marry, the government gives you a huge 6 figure stipend and free utilities for life, and the health and education of your children is provided at no cost (not to mention they are taught their own accurate history and not to hate themselves, and no drag queen stuff is allowed--it's actually openly condemned). And how in Libya, the people were rewarded and aided to form families, and your work or career was seen as a way of life, not a way to make ends meet. Or how France sends a hot young woman to your home after your wife gives birth to help her with household chores.

980f7f7945d879f5e5002e60ab30f994.jpg


I've found people get extremely butthurt when you attack capitalism or praise socialism but regardless of what you label these countries, the Gulf/Asian/European-prior-to-2000 nations all have policies which are cohesive, support the culture and the norms and mores of that society, and the American system where the people barely have enough to live on and take no vacations and receive nothing but poor and dangerous public schools and a tiny government retirement fund for 6 years, but work hard to support a globohomo military for Israel is an entirely different model.

Capitalism / Socialism / liberalism are some of the most confusingly misused words today, but the distinctions above, regardless of their labels, are important. The foreign nations (which would have classically been called socialist but I suppose a "free marketeer" libertarian type could label as "capitalist" today because they are "low tax" and not ideological, even though they despise the capitalist fundamental ideology ) are found in Russia, the Gulf nations, Libya, North Korea, and much of the far east.

One of the best sources to look into this problem is (((Robert Reich))). He does a great job of laying out the facts and the problem. Of course, his motives and solutions are to be heavily questioned. He wants to fix income inequality not to help out the average American, but because he is worried that it's the only way to save Capitalism and Democracy. And he's right. As the income inequality rises even more, and as housing prices shoot into the stratosphere, civil unrest becomes more and more likely. He even produced a good feature film documentary about it called, what else? Saving Capitalism lol

 
Last edited:
The issue is low cost labor and outsourcing work abroad as well as the devaluation or wages through illegals and the work force.
That has been a big deal for a long, long time. The way I see it, the plan was to use the population boom and globalization to get us where we are today, and now the real disruption comes.
What i do have a problem is that because there is so much low cost labor here and abroad through illegal means, many Americans lose their jobs.
Yes, this is also what Rax complains about, and I do too, since I think it's against the idea of having a country. Alas, as in politics I've given up on trying to tell people much anymore or convince them to not follow the pied piper.
Of course not. And there are plenty of examples of the idiocy of some of these "leaders" who come in and totally destroy a perfectly working company, and then leave with a "golden parachute" of millions of dollars when they destroy it. It's funny how when you argue for traditionalism, someone will inevitably bring up the occasional neer-do-well bad son who became king and made some bad decisions that his advisors were not able to stop, but you'll never hear the argument that the CEO is actively destructive to the economy of the nation. I guess bad genes only happen in monarchs?
Yes. While I agree with much of Cynllo's post, this is also true.

What sucks is that it doesn't actually matter what we think anymore, all we can do is help ourselves, our family, and maybe try to inform some of those who are willing to listen in our communities - whatever that means. Robert Reich is a stooge and a deranged man in the most classic sense, of course that's why you at least put the brackets on him. His insistence on government and social destruction/manipulation over the years, knowingly or not, is a hoot if you ask me. You have to love the guys who create or encourage larger .gov and bureaucracies and then talk about "failed" capitalism.
 
What sucks is that it doesn't actually matter what we think anymore, all we can do is help ourselves, our family, and maybe try to inform some of those who are willing to listen in our communities
It does indeed, as you so eloquently put it, suck.
But I wish more people would realize this fact and stop sinking their time and energies into political action or lost causes.

The majority of the American public is against Israel's war in Gaza. The majority of the American public is against the USA aiding Ukraine.
It doesn't matter. No matter how many people protest, no matter what we do to oppose their actions, they will push their agenda with total disregard for the "will of the majority."

Remember, the most recent "liberal" Democractic president opposed gay marriage. Along with the "liberal" voters of California in a statewide vote. Didn't matter. We got it anyway.

White House downplays CNN poll showing majority of Americans oppose more US aid for Ukraine​


If "the majority will" does not affect policy, how in the world are you ever going to enact your viewpoint in this political system?
What even IS democracy, if it is not the will of the people?
 
No, it doesn't.
If you look at the REAL history of America, you will see that when we had real money and a real two party system, corporate leaders were paid a multiple of maybe a dozen times what other workers made, and no politician of any stripe would ever allow the rapacious system we have today. In fact, just look at any true "right wing" government of the past hundred years and you will see how harshly and viciously they went after greedy capitalists and you will realize that a sense of embarrassment for wanting a natural populist idea like fair wages and fair treatment for workers is totally misplaced as this was just as much a right wing idea as a left one (or to be more accurate, it is that the left / right dichotomy is a fake invention of the 20th century, but most people are so ingrained in the bifurcated political world that they cannot think that way).

Of course not. And there are plenty of examples of the idiocy of some of these "leaders" who come in and totally destroy a perfectly working company, and then leave with a "golden parachute" of millions of dollars when they destroy it. It's funny how when you argue for traditionalism, someone will inevitably bring up the occasional neer-do-well bad son who became king and made some bad decisions that his advisors were not able to stop, but you'll never hear the argument that the CEO is actively destructive to the economy of the nation. I guess bad genes only happen in monarchs?

This is where the "too big to fail" idea has merit--the incompetencies of leaders can actually cause exponential damage if they destroy companies who employ thousands of people who rely on that company to pay their mortgages, and feed and clothe their families.

Henry Ford famously ran his company on a multiple of 15 times the factory worker's pay--and he was the CREATOR of Ford Motors! He also doubled worker pay once his cars began selling. Not gave a nice raise or bonus. DOUBLED pay. That just doesn't happen today.

But yeah the current CEO earnings multiples are absurd.

Wikipedia.jpg


America had PLENTY of wealthy corporations in the 1960s--General Motors actually had a MAJORITY share of car sales, and has greatly declined its market share since then. An honest, God-fearing, talented, Christian man of good conscious could make a phenomenal living earning 20 times what his workers do.

And as they grew the company more and more, everyone could share equally in that growth, as was done until around 1980, or it could all be hoarded by one man.

wages2_arrow.jpg


I've known one CEO--not particularly bright. He has a lot of *responsibility* -- basically just whatever happens keep things running well and DO NOT SCREW UP but it's honestly not that hard of a job (this is a sample size of 1 but let's be real, the CEO is rarely if ever doing the important work--he is delegating). I've also run a (quite) small business, and the idea that I would make 300 times what the actual producers in the business brought in is just gross and sick to me (so if a guy was making $50,000 I should justify earning 300x or $15 million just by managing a bunch of guys like him?)

But @Uzisuicide is right, this all stems from the fiat money system, formalized in 1914 and consecrated in 1971.

ei7oxspxgamaayl.png


cummulative-inflation.jpg



That is not capitalism. It is fascism.
Now think about why you have been raised since birth to despise that word.


There is this libertarian idea that still persists that "capitalism" and "free market" is the ultimate ideal, because it theoretically means a small government (I used to believe in small government; I no longer do, but nevertheless trying to argue for that while living in the single largest, most oppressive behemoth of a government in history is laughable).

The US is utterly capitalist in that it rewards capital, or the owners of usury, over the productive classes, ie the worker / wages. Real Wage growth has declined for decades while owners of capital have grown more wealthy.

The operation of the US government is focused on ideological and "value" goals such as "gayness should spread freely throughout the world and we will oppress and punish nations which try to restrict it, while rewarding those who encourage its growth."

And when you look at countries in the Gulf, or say Singapore, what you will find is that they direct a lot of efforts not in ideological shenanigans, but in making the lives of the people better--what was called socialism in the 1940s. That is why in Qatar for example, when you marry, the government gives you a huge 6 figure stipend and free utilities for life, and the health and education of your children is provided at no cost (not to mention they are taught their own accurate history and not to hate themselves, and no drag queen stuff is allowed--it's actually openly condemned). And how in Libya, the people were rewarded and aided to form families, and your work or career was seen as a way of life, not a way to make ends meet. Or how France sends a hot young woman to your home after your wife gives birth to help her with household chores.

980f7f7945d879f5e5002e60ab30f994.jpg


I've found people get extremely butthurt when you attack capitalism or praise socialism but regardless of what you label these countries, the Gulf/Asian/European-prior-to-2000 nations all have policies which are cohesive, support the culture and the norms and mores of that society, and the American system where the people barely have enough to live on and take no vacations and receive nothing but poor and dangerous public schools and a tiny government retirement fund for 6 years, but work hard to support a globohomo military for Israel is an entirely different model.

Capitalism / Socialism / liberalism are some of the most confusingly misused words today, but the distinctions above, regardless of their labels, are important. The foreign nations (which would have classically been called socialist but I suppose a "free marketeer" libertarian type could label as "capitalist" today because they are "low tax" and not ideological, even though they despise the capitalist fundamental ideology ) are found in Russia, the Gulf nations, Libya, North Korea, and much of the far east.

One of the best sources to look into this problem is (((Robert Reich))). He does a great job of laying out the facts and the problem. Of course, his motives and solutions are to be heavily questioned. He wants to fix income inequality not to help out the average American, but because he is worried that it's the only way to save Capitalism and Democracy. And he's right. As the income inequality rises even more, and as housing prices shoot into the stratosphere, civil unrest becomes more and more likely. He even produced a good feature film documentary about it called, what else? Saving Capitalism lol


Great points, and I would urge people to read into the history of the corporation as an entity itself. I do believe America was thriving so well in its early formation because corporations were limited in purpose and reach and also held accountable for missteps. They were viewed with an eye of suspicion by most people then.

A far cry from corporations today. With the decline of Christianity, having powerful corporations is a very potent demonic elixir for society—and we see it in spades in our modern era. From the enforcement of vaccines, to the rainbow propaganda in June, corporations are vehicles for control and micromanagement of people, often led by psychopaths.

The sooner they dissolve as an idea or are destroyed, the better off humanity will be.

https://truthout.org/articles/unequal-protection-the-early-role-of-corporations-in-america/
 
You cannot blame income inequality on Capitalism. No system of redistribution of wealth actually creates wealth. Capitalism incentivizes production with the promise that you can enjoy the fruits of your own labor or ideas. Every social or economic system in history has seen its wealth aggregate to the top! Even neolithic graves that are dug up by archeologists have one guy buried with silver and gold and everyone else buried with nothing. This is the Pareto Distribution on display. Go play the game Monopoly and see how it ends every single time. Nobody knows what to do about it. But at least the poor in capitalist nations have chicken nuggets, Iphones and flat screen tvs. Capitalism has brought more people in the world out of poverty faster than anyone would have predicted 25years ago. So that's some white pill...
 
One more thing speaking of the game Monopoly. If the game was about everyone having the same assets equally distributed then there would be no reason to play the game.
 
No, it doesn't.
If you look at the REAL history of America, you will see that when we had real money and a real two party system, corporate leaders were paid a multiple of maybe a dozen times what other workers made, and no politician of any stripe would ever allow the rapacious system we have today. In fact, just look at any true "right wing" government of the past hundred years and you will see how harshly and viciously they went after greedy capitalists and you will realize that a sense of embarrassment for wanting a natural populist idea like fair wages and fair treatment for workers is totally misplaced as this was just as much a right wing idea as a left one (or to be more accurate, it is that the left / right dichotomy is a fake invention of the 20th century, but most people are so ingrained in the bifurcated political world that they cannot think that way).

Of course not. And there are plenty of examples of the idiocy of some of these "leaders" who come in and totally destroy a perfectly working company, and then leave with a "golden parachute" of millions of dollars when they destroy it. It's funny how when you argue for traditionalism, someone will inevitably bring up the occasional neer-do-well bad son who became king and made some bad decisions that his advisors were not able to stop, but you'll never hear the argument that the CEO is actively destructive to the economy of the nation. I guess bad genes only happen in monarchs?

This is where the "too big to fail" idea has merit--the incompetencies of leaders can actually cause exponential damage if they destroy companies who employ thousands of people who rely on that company to pay their mortgages, and feed and clothe their families.

Henry Ford famously ran his company on a multiple of 15 times the factory worker's pay--and he was the CREATOR of Ford Motors! He also doubled worker pay once his cars began selling. Not gave a nice raise or bonus. DOUBLED pay. That just doesn't happen today.

But yeah the current CEO earnings multiples are absurd.

Wikipedia.jpg


America had PLENTY of wealthy corporations in the 1960s--General Motors actually had a MAJORITY share of car sales, and has greatly declined its market share since then. An honest, God-fearing, talented, Christian man of good conscious could make a phenomenal living earning 20 times what his workers do.

And as they grew the company more and more, everyone could share equally in that growth, as was done until around 1980, or it could all be hoarded by one man.

wages2_arrow.jpg


I've known one CEO--not particularly bright. He has a lot of *responsibility* -- basically just whatever happens keep things running well and DO NOT SCREW UP but it's honestly not that hard of a job (this is a sample size of 1 but let's be real, the CEO is rarely if ever doing the important work--he is delegating). I've also run a (quite) small business, and the idea that I would make 300 times what the actual producers in the business brought in is just gross and sick to me (so if a guy was making $50,000 I should justify earning 300x or $15 million just by managing a bunch of guys like him?)

But @Uzisuicide is right, this all stems from the fiat money system, formalized in 1914 and consecrated in 1971.

ei7oxspxgamaayl.png


cummulative-inflation.jpg



That is not capitalism. It is fascism.
Now think about why you have been raised since birth to despise that word.


There is this libertarian idea that still persists that "capitalism" and "free market" is the ultimate ideal, because it theoretically means a small government (I used to believe in small government; I no longer do, but nevertheless trying to argue for that while living in the single largest, most oppressive behemoth of a government in history is laughable).

The US is utterly capitalist in that it rewards capital, or the owners of usury, over the productive classes, ie the worker / wages. Real Wage growth has declined for decades while owners of capital have grown more wealthy.

The operation of the US government is focused on ideological and "value" goals such as "gayness should spread freely throughout the world and we will oppress and punish nations which try to restrict it, while rewarding those who encourage its growth."

And when you look at countries in the Gulf, or say Singapore, what you will find is that they direct a lot of efforts not in ideological shenanigans, but in making the lives of the people better--what was called socialism in the 1940s. That is why in Qatar for example, when you marry, the government gives you a huge 6 figure stipend and free utilities for life, and the health and education of your children is provided at no cost (not to mention they are taught their own accurate history and not to hate themselves, and no drag queen stuff is allowed--it's actually openly condemned). And how in Libya, the people were rewarded and aided to form families, and your work or career was seen as a way of life, not a way to make ends meet. Or how France sends a hot young woman to your home after your wife gives birth to help her with household chores.

980f7f7945d879f5e5002e60ab30f994.jpg


I've found people get extremely butthurt when you attack capitalism or praise socialism but regardless of what you label these countries, the Gulf/Asian/European-prior-to-2000 nations all have policies which are cohesive, support the culture and the norms and mores of that society, and the American system where the people barely have enough to live on and take no vacations and receive nothing but poor and dangerous public schools and a tiny government retirement fund for 6 years, but work hard to support a globohomo military for Israel is an entirely different model.

Capitalism / Socialism / liberalism are some of the most confusingly misused words today, but the distinctions above, regardless of their labels, are important. The foreign nations (which would have classically been called socialist but I suppose a "free marketeer" libertarian type could label as "capitalist" today because they are "low tax" and not ideological, even though they despise the capitalist fundamental ideology ) are found in Russia, the Gulf nations, Libya, North Korea, and much of the far east.

One of the best sources to look into this problem is (((Robert Reich))). He does a great job of laying out the facts and the problem. Of course, his motives and solutions are to be heavily questioned. He wants to fix income inequality not to help out the average American, but because he is worried that it's the only way to save Capitalism and Democracy. And he's right. As the income inequality rises even more, and as housing prices shoot into the stratosphere, civil unrest becomes more and more likely. He even produced a good feature film documentary about it called, what else? Saving Capitalism lol


We can thank the Dodge Brothers for ruining Henry Ford's generosity.


dj.jpg



db.jpg

EDIT: Yes, the Star of David logo was an actual Dodge Brothers logo for a time. Very in-your-face.
 
Last edited:
Timely thread, I was thinking about putting something like this yesterday to ask what people though about 'where the money went to'.

I'm not a socialist by any means and never have been but lately I am looking at the state of the lower end worker of the world and the increasing problem of mass homeless and wondering how all these people got so screwed over by the system.

I think this is one of the connecting dots
But @Uzisuicide is right, this all stems from the fiat money system, formalized in 1914 and consecrated in 1971.

The complete devalatiation of money since the world went off the gold standard. Fiât money is meaningless now. Wages haven't kept up with inflation.

The other dot I go to is the shareholder model of corporations which basically is set up to screw every last cost down to the nth degree to favour shareholder return.

The next upcoming thing is going to be the explosion of tech, namely having an AI that sit in your pocket that can do a bunch of tasks that I currently pay someone to do. I'm just messing about with this at the moment in my own business but if it can do even some of what she does, she's going to be out of work or have much less work, excacerbating this. How many more people's jobs are going to be replaced by AI bots?

It strikes me that over the last 50 to 80 years there has been a massive theft from the people. There used to be more real value in the economy for people and the working class could at least make a decent living for themselves on one salary, I know that's how it was in my grandparents time. Now couple flog themselves to death to just have enough money to maybe one day buy a house.
I suspect I know the (((answer))) but where the F did all the money go?
 
The experts that produce the product or provide the services of a business are what makes the business exist. The leadership just has to focus on motivating staff to perform well, grows the business ifdesired (always mandatory in publicly traded companies) or ensures operational procedures and decisions are made for greatest efficiency and desired profit margins achieved. One cultural problem with many organizations is the salary valuation of a manager must be greater than all of their staff that works for them. If there are 1-2 rock-star staff members, IMO they is should command a higher salary than their supervisor/manager. No diffferent than a star player getting paid more than the head coach in pro sports. But in the employment world we rarely see this for some odd reason. Probably because normal employees don’t have a professional agent that negotiates salary or finds another job for them for leverage to get their value. The manager’s ego always wins in the normal workplace . I even remember going on an interview once where the hiring manager actually said “I can’t pay you your desired salary (which was equal to what I was making in a prior job) because that would be about the same as I make”. I responded with “but if you bring in high quality staff, it makes you look to be a better manager to the higher ups”. I guess he thought it was too threatening and he was insecure.
 
Last edited:
While theories of capitalism and socialism distribution have their merits, after studying both for years, I've concluded that neither are the problem and both can work with the right people or setup.

But you know what can't work? Usury.

That's why, in the Middle Ages, when there were literally fiefdoms and intense regulation of private property, which was one of the least efficient methods of distribution, people could still have homes and families - because usury was banned by an all-powerful Church.

Monopolization of resources or land doesn't matter if it's paid for with REAL money. It doesn't matter if people can keep their earnings, or get taxed up the wazoo like they did in the Byzantine Empire. If the money was REAL, then it did not matter how it was distributed.

Bankers who charged interest on loans had their heads cut off and their money confiscated - that's how you ensure prosperity.

Until that comes back, debates about economic systems are pointless. Imagine debating if power-lifting or long-distance running was the key to a long life, when you have cancer? That's what it's like when talking about which system of distribution is better, capitalism or socialism, when you've got usurious parasites cannibalizing the economy.

Literally everything else is pointless until the usurious system is destroyed. The wealthy will get richer no matter what while the people are crushed and unable to afford a home and kids. It's just the mathematical outcome of exponents, aka interest rates. Completely unavoidable and only temporarily relieved with money printing, which is the equivalent of chemotherapy to the economy until the cancer of usury comes back.
 
Last edited:
What even IS democracy, if it is not the will of the people?
It is, as you know, propaganda to make those in the matrix believe they have choice, when in reality they are slaves in mind and deed - but still willingly pull the lever for those who "hacked" them.
Literally everything else is pointless until the usurious system is destroyed. The wealth will get richer no matter what while the people are crushed and unable to afford a home and kids. It's just the mathematical outcome of exponents, aka interest rates. Completely unavoidable and only temporarily relieved with money printing, which is the equivalent of chemotherapy to the economy until the cancer of usury comes back.
I don't have a problem with life and all of its absurdities, but the curious thing about the trajectory of life is that we're supposed to work hard and are naturally inclined to do well for our families, children and community but we also as Christians are told to suffer under the nonsense of godless people, because we are just sojourning here. I don't have the answer, but I will say, right or wrong, I push back against the feminine attitude of just laying down against certain rulers due to their current status as so called "rulers" over us. I have a personal opinion that modern christians largely have that weak approach towards evil, having been spoiled and lived in a secure world for so long.
 
Back
Top