Friendly GOC or based ROCOR?

[StanWildman]

Looking for an Orthodox church to visit, and this is my first stab at checking out a physical church.

Here is the dilemma, tl/dr: I feel like ROCOR is a good fit for me and I've got a ROCOR church pretty far away that seems to not be overly enthused about having new people "visit" a liturgy, but which seems ideologically to have a wonderful orientation. I also have a GOC church very close by which seems very friendly and easy to visit, but kind of tepid in orientation.

Explanation:

My preference is strongly for a ROCOR church as that is where I see myself ending up, God willing. The closest one is a little over an hour away, depending on traffic here amid this busy mid-Atlantic US suburban sprawl. They are in an office building, having been in existence less than a decade. According to their Web site, it seems without question a based church. Recommended resources include Orthodox Ethos and Father Spyridon, for example.

Unfortunately, they don't seem overly keen on getting people to drop by or attend a liturgy. No times are listed. They don't invite you to stop by. No map to the location, just an address of the office park. The proffered opportunity is to contact them and schedule an appointment to talk to someone. Under the description of "membership" it indicates, basically, participate in the mysteries and open your checkbook.

On the other hand, ten minutes from my house is a GOC church, also in an office space, a little bit older of a congregation. The Web site immediately invites you to attend liturgy, they even have a photo of the sanctuary. Times of liturgical events are listed, there is a map, nothing mentions money. Frankly it seems like visiting this church would be the easiest thing in the world and one could do it casually which is definitely my preferred way of doing this.

The downside here is, in terms of the ideological angle which I realize is a terrible point of view that I cannot seem to get over, there is nothing remotely based about this church - at least from the Web presentation. The only resources are some podcasts on Ancient Faith and these are by people I have never heard of (Thomas Hopko, Stephen Damick, Stephen de Young); no mention of any of the various Internet Orthodox that I know.

Is GOC that much different from ROCOR? Does anyone have an opinion on future prospects of the GOC going full globohomo? I would like to finally have a physical touchpoint at a church, even if I may not be becoming Orthodox for some time. Any ideas or opinions will be greatly appreciated

 

[Iacobus]

First, I wouldn't judge them too much based on their website. It could be that when you show up at the ROCOR parish they are inviting and the GOC is cold. Maybe not, but you don't know until you get there. I would 100% encourage you to visit both as an inquirer. Nothing substitutes for boots on the ground. I know it's a bit uncomfortable but there's no way around it.

Second, it seems like you've framed your own question in a way. Either Church will have valid sacraments. So, presuming your impressions are correct, would you rather be a part of a church that is based politically but a bit cold/distant socially and a long commute, or a place that's more chill/welcoming/easy to get to but questionable politically? Only you can answer that. Bear in mind that the reason to join the Church is to participate in the sacraments and grow spiritually. The priest is very important too, you should aim to attend a parish where your confessor is someone who will have the time and inclination to really catechize you, hear your confessions and shepherd you in your growth toward Christ.

I will say that Fr. Hopko and Fr. de Young are great priests with tons of knowledge, Fr. Damick is a bit cringe but I don't think he's a bad dude. For whatever issues Ancient Faith may have as an organization, I've learned so much from The Whole Counsel of God and Lord of Spirits podcasts.

 

[Lawrence87]

I think the internet has done a lot to paint the different jurisdictions with broad strokes. There is an element of truth to it, ROCOR tend towards conservatism in the traditions and canons etc, and there are troubling things coming from GOARCH. But on the parish level these things don't always apply and the only real way to find out is to attend both and see which fits what you are searching for and whatever practical concerns you have (such as travel distance).

Many many parishes have sub par websites. Most are put together by boomers who don't think the website has anything to do with attracting people to the parish but merely a place where existing parishoners can get info on service times etc. Its also the case in many instances that there is no funding to get it done professionally and not a great deal of time to spare to devote to maintaining it.

TLDR just go to both and see which suits you best and which is most practical for you to attend regularly.

 

[StanWildman]

...it seems like you've framed your own question in a way.

Yes I definitely am coming in with a host of prejudices to jettison, actual visiting seems like the thing to do before overthinking it. Thanks for the insight on the Ancient Faith resources!

I think the internet has done a lot to paint the different jurisdictions with broad strokes.....

Many many parishes have sub par websites. ....

Thank you for the reminder!

 

[Jeremiah Branch]

The challenges to entering a parish, for whatever reason, can function as test of your own faith, humility and conviction. If anything, I find the relative lack of overt evangelical enthusiasm at some churches to be a selling point: They are not trying to "get you in the door"; rather, they leave it to you: How driven are you? How committed are you to the truth of it, regardless of how warm and fuzzy you are made to feel at the church? I can tell you that my own experience was very much in that vein, and in hindsight, it was ultimately a very good thing. Orthodoxy is about freedom, and the emphasis on freedom can, ironically, express itself as a kind of coldness and aloofness in practice, because nobody is going to encourage you, push you, pull you, etc.

To use a verse that Fr. Peter Heers quotes quite often in this context: "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." Mt. 11:12

You have to want it, and seize it. Ultimately, I am not advocating for GOC or ROCOR in your particular case, but trying to put your current experience in perspective for you to think on it in a dispassionate way.

 

[analyst_green]

I agree with the others, visit both and see what impression they give you. The Ecumenical Patriarchate has some serious moral issues in their upper leadership that have been discussed here. In general, their churches would be my last resort choice. But there are still plenty of great priests in GOARCH, and I find Fr. Thomas Hopko's writings helpful myself.

Also, distance is a huge factor. A parish would have to have some massive advantages to make me drive an hour when another one is 10 minutes away.

It may not be obvious after your first visit, but try to imagine commuting there every week, sometimes multiple times a week. It might not affect your attendance at liturgy, but will you still go to confession as often, or vespers, or social events? I don't know your financial situation, but an hour drive can be over 100 miles round-trip and that's a significant monetary expense as well.

 

[Nagareboshi]

I know what you mean, I've literally experienced the same phenomenon of ROCOR or MP churches that don't have times listed or sometimes even the entire website is out of date. Meanwhile, GOARCH/EP websites are full of details on how you can access and become a member. Personally, when this happened to me, the Russian church ended up being more welcoming and more traditional than the Greek one. Please don't be discouraged, and I think visiting both, as others mentioned, is wise.

Perhaps you would benefit from sending the Russian church an email ahead of time. Worst case, you could just show up at 9:30am on Sunday and if it ends up that you're too early, so be it, that's a sacrifice that God would recognize. Also, maybe check to see if they have a Facebook page or group. Many low tech Russian churches, for some reason, are pretty active on Facebook.

I've met people who drive 1-2 hours to get to a good traditional Orthodox Church, and even a priest who spends 3-4 hours on his Sunday commute. It is a cross to bear for sure, but you wouldn't be alone in encountering it.

 

[StanWildman]

This is all really good advice. I am going to visit both for certain. Going to a church that is far away would mean having far less involvement, apart from weekly liturgy, at that location, but right now I don't attend any church at all so maybe once a week is the appropriate ramp up anyway.

I will go ahead and schedule an appointment with the Russian church, as they recommend. Might as well follow the instructions.

Much thanks!