Finding the church that Jesus built video series

Started listening finally. I'm ashamed to say I must be affected by short clips that are so prevalent now. He has all this information and even shows various books for back up references and all I can think is: I'm tired.

But I'm still glad for all the references.

A couple of things stood out to me so far. I didn't realize it was Constantine that was using that PX symbol so prevalently. And, the edict of Milan that made Christianity legal was in Milan. Of course it was but it's just more impactful to see that on a map - it's more north than I expected things to be. The illustration helps with giving an appreciation for the interconnectedness at that time.
 
Other pieces that stood out:

The sack of Rome in 400AD and the blame of Christians for it. Augustine responds with the City of God. City of God shapes the West and it's thought patterns all the way to the United States and Protestantism. I would have liked to have heard more on this but maybe he'll touch on it later.

Charlemagne and the stress he put on the Pope making the pope crown him as emperor. Here the common western struggle of Church and State starts. Charlemagne looks to be seperate and legitimate. And so he rejects everything the rest of the Church is doing. Charlemagne sees opportunity in the changes of the nicene creed that starts percolating out of Spain. Encourages its spread. Pope ends up being the last hold out saying the creed as it was originally written. Finally he gives in. But tug of war between german popes and german emperors continue.
 
Excellent tying together of Crusades, Renaissance, and Protestantism

from: 50:00 to about 60:00

I've never seen this point of view before.

Old Roman Catholic theology (Augustine + Plato)
vs.
New Roman Catholic theology from new stuff picked up from crusading in the east. ( which essentially became Aquinas + Aristotle)

Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk. Got upset with the new stuff... and there you go....
 
Started listening finally. I'm ashamed to say I must be affected by short clips that are so prevalent now. He has all this information and even shows various books for back up references and all I can think is: I'm tired.

But I'm still glad for all the references.

A couple of things stood out to me so far. I didn't realize it was Constantine that was using that PX symbol so prevalently. And, the edict of Milan that made Christianity legal was in Milan. Of course it was but it's just more impactful to see that on a map - it's more north than I expected things to be. The illustration helps with giving an appreciation for the interconnectedness at that time.
Stick it out its worth it, I have the book the city of God its quite a huge book I think close to 1000 pages, I started the book I was 70% done but there was an error on my kindle after that so still need to finish the rest, it really is an amazing book and should be a must read for all Christians, if you can get a hard copy even better, its what Im going to do.
 
Excellent tying together of Crusades, Renaissance, and Protestantism

from: 50:00 to about 60:00

I've never seen this point of view before.

Old Roman Catholic theology (Augustine + Plato)
vs.
New Roman Catholic theology from new stuff picked up from crusading in the east. ( which essentially became Aquinas + Aristotle)

Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk. Got upset with the new stuff... and there you go....
There is a nice podcast episode you could also listen to while driving its a history podcast and they do mention the crusades and constantinople it goes well with this series you watching
I personally think the idea of the crusades was a good one but they did turn on the Orthodox Christians of Constantinople that they were originally supposed to help defend so it was quite sad what they did, the fourth crusade if Im not mistaken.
 
Stick it out its worth it, I have the book the city of God its quite a huge book I think close to 1000 pages, I started the book I was 70% done but there was an error on my kindle after that so still need to finish the rest, it really is an amazing book and should be a must read for all Christians, if you can get a hard copy even better, its what Im going to do.

He mentioned he'd talk about it when he covered salvation. So I skipped over to it for a preview. (I've been listening with a 1.5x speedup to deal with my short attention span)



I'm just a little in, but it's pretty interesting how he ties the development of TULIP to the Augustinian frame and interpretation. The big one is original sin.
 
He mentioned he'd talk about it when he covered salvation. So I skipped over to it for a preview. (I've been listening with a 1.5x speedup to deal with my short attention span)



I'm just a little in, but it's pretty interesting how he ties the development of TULIP to the Augustinian frame and interpretation. The big one is original sin.

It was a few years ago when I watched this so dont remember all all the details. Its a really good series enjoy it, I hope to watch it all again some day to refresh
 
The big one is original sin.

Finished listening to Seminar 5 on Salvation. It actually does leave a pit in my stomach. Original sin is so ingrained into my psyche.... and our psyche as a culture. Paul Kingsnorth has suggested maybe it's tied to the drive now for reparations in culture. We are unable to pull back from that paradigm.

It helps in all this to just think about what the incarnation means for us.
 
I'm looking at what I wrote a year ago. Interesting to see my own thoughts. I think I'm mostly in the same place spiritually. Which is moving very slowly towards Orthodoxy from my heritage, Lutheranism (the conservative branch).

The sack of Rome in 400AD and the blame of Christians for it. Augustine responds with the City of God. City of God shapes the West and it's thought patterns all the way to the United States and Protestantism. I would have liked to have heard more on this but maybe he'll touch on it later.

I've had more time to simmer with this. I've come to the conclusion that we all operate as protestants in the US (for better and worse) regardless if one is Catholic or Orthodox. I say this because of how dominating our culture is and how it forces us to see the world and how it forces us to live. I see now that the traditional Orthodox countries are very different in essence.... or, at least what's left of that essence. Because I think that traditional essence is disappearing. And pretty much everywhere has mostly taken on what we would think of as western, modern, US-type culture.

I may go back to these videos and try to understand/summarize how Augustine's conceptual space birthed Protestantism and modern type thinking. I think I may know though. He tended to move God from being immanent in everything in the world, to focusing on the transcendent part. You can see it in the development of architecture in churches moving from an enclosing dome - symbolizing God and the Saints and heaven coming down all around you vs the Gothic Cathedrals reaching high up to God who is high in the Heavens.
 
I'm looking at what I wrote a year ago. Interesting to see my own thoughts. I think I'm mostly in the same place spiritually. Which is moving very slowly towards Orthodoxy from my heritage, Lutheranism (the conservative branch).



I've had more time to simmer with this. I've come to the conclusion that we all operate as protestants in the US (for better and worse) regardless if one is Catholic or Orthodox. I say this because of how dominating our culture is and how it forces us to see the world and how it forces us to live. I see now that the traditional Orthodox countries are very different in essence.... or, at least what's left of that essence. Because I think that traditional essence is disappearing. And pretty much everywhere has mostly taken on what we would think of as western, modern, US-type culture.

I may go back to these videos and try to understand/summarize how Augustine's conceptual space birthed Protestantism and modern type thinking. I think I may know though. He tended to move God from being immanent in everything in the world, to focusing on the transcendent part. You can see it in the development of architecture in churches moving from an enclosing dome - symbolizing God and the Saints and heaven coming down all around you vs the Gothic Cathedrals reaching high up to God who is high in the Heavens.

I am fairly naive on the significance of Augustine and he seems to be a flashpoint these days between Orthodox online. If you have any more thoughts I would be happy to hear them. Fr. Seraphim seems to take the nuanced position that the extremities of Augustine's theology were errors in good faith but that the man was unassailably a model of pious repentance and that he should be held high for that rather than posthumously bullied for his errors. At the same time his theological errors when extended further seems to have held major sway on the Romans and Protestants and their heresies.
 
I am fairly naive on the significance of Augustine and he seems to be a flashpoint these days between Orthodox online. If you have any more thoughts I would be happy to hear them. Fr. Seraphim seems to take the nuanced position that the extremities of Augustine's theology were errors in good faith but that the man was unassailably a model of pious repentance and that he should be held high for that rather than posthumously bullied for his errors. At the same time his theological errors when extended further seems to have held major sway on the Romans and Protestants and their heresies.

I'm not sure I have much insight. I've only just recently considered the possibility that Augustine could be questioned on some of these things. Augustine is such a mainstay for thought in the West it's hard to critique for someone coming from my point of view.

There are these unspoken pre-conceptual frames people operate with. We rarely talk about them, or think about them, because we just assume it. This is how it feels to me with Augustine's ideas.

Augustine was the one who thought of things being meritorious or demeritorious before God. Seems straightforward enough but when it's systematized there ends up being a certain way of thinking. Especially when linked up with original sin, which is what he did. He proposed that the internal character of our act is always sinful, even when we obey the law and do good.

And so, Augustine theorized there must be some sort of special "preceding" grace that corrects our good deeds as we do them.

In other words, Your deed is only good when you are put in a "state of grace". This is the system the Catholics work with.

So, from here on out, we are working within a system of merits and demerits. And people start thinking in systematic terms of transferring merits. Rome essentially came up with this system where the Church has a treasury of merits, stored up by the Saints, which only it can dispense, to put you in a state of grace. The people who became Protestants flipped out about this because you can kind of see how this totally takes the meaning and heart out of the whole situation and makes it look like God is running some strange factory. You can also see how this is ripe for abuse, ie indulgences (selling merits on behalf of the dead)
But, protestants were not able to see around Augustine at this point and still thought heavily of the whole situation as a transfer of merits from Christ to us. Put your faith in Christ, merits are transferred. This kind of description can be found in scripture but we've really latched onto the merit/demerit thing in the West.

What you say about Seraphim Rose's nuanced approach is also something that we in the West do less of. We generally think if we can study something (like the Bible) and get it just right (systematically understand it) then we'll be good. We tend to trust the intellect over the heart. We don't even have a good concept or definition of the heart. Some people would think it just means emotion.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure this whole way of over-systemized thinking grew into the "I believe in the experts" and "I belive in science" people. We trust smart people rather than seeking out and trusting holy people.
 
I'm looking at what I wrote a year ago. Interesting to see my own thoughts. I think I'm mostly in the same place spiritually. Which is moving very slowly towards Orthodoxy from my heritage, Lutheranism (the conservative branch).



I've had more time to simmer with this. I've come to the conclusion that we all operate as protestants in the US (for better and worse) regardless if one is Catholic or Orthodox. I say this because of how dominating our culture is and how it forces us to see the world and how it forces us to live. I see now that the traditional Orthodox countries are very different in essence.... or, at least what's left of that essence. Because I think that traditional essence is disappearing. And pretty much everywhere has mostly taken on what we would think of as western, modern, US-type culture.

I may go back to these videos and try to understand/summarize how Augustine's conceptual space birthed Protestantism and modern type thinking. I think I may know though. He tended to move God from being immanent in everything in the world, to focusing on the transcendent part. You can see it in the development of architecture in churches moving from an enclosing dome - symbolizing God and the Saints and heaven coming down all around you vs the Gothic Cathedrals reaching high up to God who is high in the Heavens.
One thing I did notice when I came to America is that the convert Orthodox churches still carry a bit of a protestant flair, even in the sermons, yes its part of the culture and behaviour of the people, back homw it was a little different, the Russian churches also carry their culture where they can seem to be very cold, they wont greet a new comer or smile etc but its just part of their culture where American Orthodox are all over you and smiling and inviting you to hang out, American are more friendly in that sense.

American culture is also very individual and not collective which is a very protestant way of thinking
 
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