Femininity in a woman and physical attractiveness

I'm a big appreciator of women dressing in a feminine manner as can be seen with my comments in this thread but the way the culture is, just merely being modest and avoiding a lot of the yellow/red flags like blue/purple/rainbow hair, facial piercings, big tattoos, and such is already enough to pass my tests. Anything beyond that I just see as a bonus.
Yeah that's a great point. Never shows too much, or wears yoga pants. Also no weird piercings or anything. Smiles and laughs a lot while we talk, looks me in the eyes.

I don't how else to say this but she passes the boner test very well. But I have to be careful because that can make men retarded. We'll see what happens.
 
Woman that are too talkative usually display many other non feminine attributes and a huge turnoff. I’ve found that in general, confidence around men means they are not virgins. The scripture tells us that a woman’s virginity is her innocence, and once she has known a man that changes. Within the confines of Christian marriage, two will pair bond and become one flesh.

I’ve noticed that I am increasingly attracted to the shy and quiet women. To me, overly talkative women are the least feminine and always a huge turnoff. Just my observation
 
Yeah I've noticed that as well. You can make an educated guess about a woman's sexual past based on how confident they are. They think it's attractive, but it's incredibly annoying. And a red flag.

But I do appreciate a woman making some effort after you approached her/met, made it obvious you're interested and known each other for a while. I think it's a good sign of her interest too. A lot of women are really boring and expect men to always keep the conversation going.
 
I’ve noticed that I am increasingly attracted to the shy and quiet women. To me, overly talkative women are the least feminine and always a huge turnoff. Just my observation
Yes, this is a great proxy for learning or selecting the best one for most secure men.
 
You can make an educated guess about a woman's sexual past based on how confident they are
"Experience" of course goes into that realm of "banter" which of course is annoying. What's interesting about a woman is that she's feminine and doesn't have interesting things like you'd talk with your boys about (the whole point), but rather a different point of view to consider that isn't competing with yours. It's rare to find, indeed.
 
There's this girl I've recently met, probably early 20s. We go to the same church. She's showing the signs that she's interested and even initiates conversations (a lot of women don't even do this), asks questions a lot, etc.

Her voice and personality are very feminine, and she's very attractive and nice to talk to. My only issue is the way she dresses. Usually a sweatshirt and jeans, never a dress or more feminine clothing (a lot of women at church wear dresses). She also doesn't put her hair down. Maybe I'm being too picky. Maybe it can be a positive that she's still attractive without trying that hard.

Curious what others think about the way women dress.
If you ever start dating this woman, you should put on an old movie where ladies are wearing dresses, then comment on how women used to dress so feminine back in the old days.

She'll get the hint.
 
There's this girl I've recently met, probably early 20s. We go to the same church. She's showing the signs that she's interested and even initiates conversations (a lot of women don't even do this), asks questions a lot, etc.

Her voice and personality are very feminine, and she's very attractive and nice to talk to. My only issue is the way she dresses. Usually a sweatshirt and jeans, never a dress or more feminine clothing (a lot of women at church wear dresses). She also doesn't put her hair down. Maybe I'm being too picky. Maybe it can be a positive that she's still attractive without trying that hard.

Curious what others think about the way women dress.

dean winchester good job GIF


Nice! Good news stories and promising relationship reports are great to read here.

A young attractive, feminine woman at church taking *any* initiative to talk or interact with you (outside of an outcome-focused goal to get you to join a bible study group or other activities) is most likely a strong sign of interest. I would suggest you reciprocate whenever she initiates contact, and give her a clear social reward (smile, validate, ask questions, make statements, be playful etc).

If her plain fashion of wearing jeans and tees is the biggest issue you have identified, you have what can be called a "very high quality problem" 😁. Plain clothes can even be a good sign that she isn't seeking validation from others. As @Wutang said, the big things to watch out for are showing skin, looking sexual, having bright hair, piercings and tattoos.

For your own interest, it could be useful to reflect on this concern, and consider where is it coming from and if it is truly justified. [No need to answer the following per se, as these are rhetorical questions to help guide self-reflection.]

- To what extent do you tend to project distant future scenarios onto a relationship that is very new?
- Do you have or could have the equivalent 'husband market value' to be able to screen out a woman simply because she doesn't like wearing dresses?
- Are your deep values aligned with the willingness to stay single forever unless such ideals are met?

Sometimes regularly reading about hundreds of possible red flags can influence our thinking towards focusing on every possible little thing that isn’t great, rather than the bigger topics that matter most, and on all the good things that are going well. As @Lacobus and @DanielH implied, things like her deference to you, stable personality traits, and her social network are much more important than her not wearing dresses.

I strongly believe that this related point is essential for men to consider. And it's a key reflection of femininity:

Only select a woman as your wife if she respects you, looks *up* to you, and follows your lead.

This requires at least 3 major working components:

(1)
You develop yourself into a man who is worthy of being followed,
(2) You find a woman who is able and willing to be a supportive follower, and,
(3) You maintain her position as a satisfied follower through ongoing leadership.
In addition:
(4) You do what you can to reduce/enhance broader conditions that respectively thwart/support this dynamic*

*Environmental and social factors (such as the broader culture, local community, her friends and family, social media, etc) also impact this follower-leader dynamic. That said, points #1-3 are the key factors primarily within your direct control. And things within your control are what's best to focus on.

See below for a solid overview on the importance of being 'the adored'.



Keep us updated as things progress further. These are very early days, and there will be more crucial information forthcoming about her and your situation together. I wish you all the best!✌️
 
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Wait until you see the lower class fatties. Though I felt like most women were just working out to show off bunda when I worked out at a gym.
Just come to Australia then you will appreciate what you have in Brazil. The amount of fatties you see in one week there is probably what you will see in one day in Australia. In Australia the average 18 year old woman is reasonably attractive but by 25 they look absolutely trashed.
 
I think if she is conservative minded and wants to be a good wife you can get basically one notch of improvement in how they dress. If all of her friends and family dress like slobs, she's not going to go from jeans and a sweatshirt to a long modest dress with a headcovering in church, let alone for her streetwear. I would reasonably expect her to go from jeans and sweatshirt to jeans and a nice blouse, or a mid length skirt and a decent t-shirt. I would not expect her to dress like a trad wife. Her current dress in church is just too far from that, albeit much better than wearing a miniskirt or leggings to church, which is often seen.

DO NOT expect her to change for you. If it happens it happens in a small dose over years, and there's probably going to be conflict leading up to it.

DO NOT underestimate the influence of a woman's friends and family over her. In this day and age, it will be greater than your influence over her nine times out of ten. You marry your wife's parents plus her friends. Find out who those people are.

This is not the same sociopolitical situation that existed when the Church Fathers wrote the Bible and subsequent works. Women have far more power in a marriage, legally, than the husband. Women often, depending on the state, will have sole authority in naming their children and putting down who the legal father is on the birth certificate. If there is a domestic dispute in either direction, you as the man are going to be kicked out by the police. In a divorce, barring obvious drug use, you will lose out on custody, and even then you will almost certainly lose your house, if not also your car and half of all your other assets. I've seen it happen. Due to this reality, you cannot expect to have much influence over your wife. She has the full backing of the state behind her, and her family. You as the man won't even have the backing of your own family most likely.

So be very cautious and selective. The person you marry is the person you marry, and you can't legally make them do anything.

For the reasons you outline is why marriage in many cases is a bad deal much of the time. You have to choose very very carefully and even then your future wife is more influenced by her friends and social media than you. My opinion is this won’t be resolved until the laws are changed which may never happen in our lifetime.
 
Woman that are too talkative usually display many other non feminine attributes and a huge turnoff. I’ve found that in general, confidence around men means they are not virgins. The scripture tells us that a woman’s virginity is her innocence, and once she has known a man that changes. Within the confines of Christian marriage, two will pair bond and become one flesh.

I’ve noticed that I am increasingly attracted to the shy and quiet women. To me, overly talkative women are the least feminine and always a huge turnoff. Just my observation
I was just courting a woman who seemed quiet, but would rant and preach which became a big turnoff. Shyness to a certain degree is good, but it's hard to gauge who they really are.

She also wore dresses and a veil in Church, but then wore jeans and a hoodie at all other times basically. Not very attractive.
 
Just come to Australia then you will appreciate what you have in Brazil. The amount of fatties you see in one week there is probably what you will see in one day in Australia. In Australia the average 18 year old woman is reasonably attractive but by 25 they look absolutely trashed.
Most Australian women I've met are pretty obnoxious and not feminine at all. They're like all the big city women here in the US. I feel for Australian guys. Even the situation here in the US is better than the other Anglo countries.
 
Most Australian women I've met are pretty obnoxious and not feminine at all. They're like all the big city women here in the US. I feel for Australian guys. Even the situation here in the US is better than the other Anglo countries.
The difference between Australia and America is Australia doesn't have a conservative area. There is no equivalent of "the American bible belt" in Australia.
 
For the reasons you outline is why marriage in many cases is a bad deal much of the time. You have to choose very very carefully and even then your future wife is more influenced by her friends and social media than you. My opinion is this won’t be resolved until the laws are changed which may never happen in our lifetime.
Yes, @DanielH did a great job in listing the critical components to review and assess. It is rather astonishing to me that we don't get any treatment from most modern people, and amazingly Orthodox, about how dire this situation really is. What's more, they don't even give a slight reference to context of what the old world ideas were, or where they are coming from, yet we're supposed to also consider their teachings as types of equivalents to our day? It seems to me to be a major danger spot for error. We're taught all the time to be unchanging and to follow the rudder of the church, but we can't even address really important social realities or cues that make the current situation a joke in so many ways (not just 1 or 2) for men.

The Assyrian bishop Emanuel (Mar Mari?) gave the good advice of marrying a godly woman. The problem is that these are a) few, b) if you are in the west they aren't young, and c) if even they have those two characteristics they are at best average looking or overweight. These are the big time issues again that go unspoken and people seemingly don't really care. To not care about family formation and procreation seems to me to be a pretty big blindspot.
 
There was this other girl I met a while ago. She was reading the Bible and said her parents are missionaries. Good sign that she takes Christianity seriously. So I got her number the second time I saw her, trying to meet for coffee or go skiing. Based on the books she was reading, I was assuming she was in college or something. Well she ended up being a senior in high school 😧

The weird thing is she keeps acting interested when we run into each other, and even seemed happy when I asked if she graduates this year. She's also not the only 18-22 year old woman giving googly eyes. When I was younger I would have thought it was weird to even consider stuff like this, but younger Christian women are the only way to have a normal family in the US.

So I guess the point is a lot of women really don't care if you're older. It's the rest of simp society and bitter older women that might have a problem with it. Misery loves company, so who cares what they think.
 
There was this other girl I met a while ago. She was reading the Bible and said her parents are missionaries. Good sign that she takes Christianity seriously. So I got her number the second time I saw her, trying to meet for coffee or go skiing. Based on the books she was reading, I was assuming she was in college or something. Well she ended up being a senior in high school 😧

The weird thing is she keeps acting interested when we run into each other, and even seemed happy when I asked if she graduates this year. She's also not the only 18-22 year old woman giving googly eyes. When I was younger I would have thought it was weird to even consider stuff like this, but younger Christian women are the only way to have a normal family in the US.

So I guess the point is a lot of women really don't care if you're older. It's the rest of simp society and bitter older women that might have a problem with it. Misery loves company, so who cares what they think.
It sounds like you have the occasion to meet this section of society, which I don't see. I told a friend the other day I saw a girl who was good looking in church but I supposed she was early 20s due to actually being good looking, which is rare. Unless a long time in the community, I also think it's hard to pull off the age gap, both through being around and through breaking the American social norm nonsense. I don't want to be self defeatist and don't know what would happen if I were able to find out more, but it stresses the point that the culture has to be a bit on your side to make things happen, and they do need to be facilitated. That's actually the point of society and family - and I'd argue especially the church family which only makes sense to promote its own get together (but this largely doesn't happen).

If you think about LatAm, for example, and realize that even if age gaps are less common, they are still common enough to happen 20-30% of the time which doesn't make people balk or think they are "weird". They are accepted like anything else is, is my point. At a minimum, that's the approach a culture needs to sustain itself, to be honest.
 
It sounds like you have the occasion to meet this section of society, which I don't see. I told a friend the other day I saw a girl who was good looking in church but I supposed she was early 20s due to actually being good looking, which is rare. Unless a long time in the community, I also think it's hard to pull off the age gap, both through being around and through breaking the American social norm nonsense. I don't want to be self defeatist and don't know what would happen if I were able to find out more, but it stresses the point that the culture has to be a bit on your side to make things happen, and they do need to be facilitated. That's actually the point of society and family - and I'd argue especially the church family which only makes sense to promote its own get together (but this largely doesn't happen).

If you think about LatAm, for example, and realize that even if age gaps are less common, they are still common enough to happen 20-30% of the time which doesn't make people balk or think they are "weird". They are accepted like anything else is, is my point. At a minimum, that's the approach a culture needs to sustain itself, to be honest.
Yeah it has taken a while to get to this point. It takes patience and surrounding yourself around the right people. And still no guarantees. But at least there's hope and I have the drive to meet women again.

It really is night and day with many of these younger Christian women. They're nice, look at you with admiration and actually make the effort to impress you. Most of them get married within a few years of graduating high school. I won't even approach women within 5 years of my age anymore because they're so jaded, mean and treat men like garbage. It would be a waste of time.
 
I won't even approach women within 5 years of my age anymore because they're so jaded, mean and treat men like garbage. It would be a waste of time.
The general level of demands (and this isn't across the board because once you see it you wouldn't even pursue a second or third meet anyway) and the amount of money these women spend makes them almost incompatible to start. If you throw the past in, anxiety and the fact that 20 year olds are the only ones even worth considering for reasons including all of the above, it's over before it started.

Things are slowly changing but again, if you've turned even 16 at this point you're part of the lost generation of women, in general.
 
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