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Fasting

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Personally, if family gatherings occur during one of the fasts, I eat the food but not as much as I could (or would like). With my circumstances, abstaining from the "main course," or just eating vegetables for example, would be more problematic than anything. Basically like the story of the nun who said she would keep the fast when she went to visit family but was corrected and told to eat what was given to her, then resume when she got home.
 
My problem is they pile the leftovers on me and then there’s the concept of “Friendsgiving” which is just code for help me kill all this turkey and stuffing. I always find myself in the situation where I’m eating turkey till early December - then I resume the fast. Does anyone in the United States not start the fast until after Turkey Day?

Also - the olive oil wine thing. May Orthodox I’ve met take that literally. Wine and hard liquor. Beer is fine in moderation - we are fasting so no partying but a beer is fine. Also many cook with the “approved oils” like coconut or avo oil. I understand many of the “approved oils” are seed oils and you shouldn’t eat them too much anyway. What’s you guys take?
 
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Yes for ROCOR it doesn't start until 11/28. And that's tough, because traditionally, half the point of Thanksgiving is over eating. I guess I'm fortunate in that regard that all my family lives out of state and the in laws I have here can't cook very well so the temptation probably isn't as great 🤢
 
KulturedKaveman said:
I’m just curious and have a question for other American Orthodox on here. What do you guys do about Thanksgiving dinner? It falls in the nativity season unfortunately.
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I'm not an American, but I end up in similar situations almost every year ever since I got baptized, and to be honest, if your family isn't Orthodox, I recommend breaking the fast or maybe eat less while not ostensibly refusing to eat something because of your religion. And I've actually read that from Elders as well.
Those feasts are meant to bring you and your family together, which has spiritual value. If you feel conscious of it, I think it's a good opportunity to say more extensive prayers or focus on doing good for others, helping out, being a good listener, being friendly, etc.
 
Muslim prophet Mohammed once said:

"O young men, those among you who can support a wife should marry, for it restrains eyes (from casting evil glances) and preserves one from immorality; but he who cannot afford it should observe fast for it is a means of controlling the sexual desire."

"But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."
 
KulturedKaveman said:
I’m just curious and have a question for other American Orthodox on here. What do you guys do about Thanksgiving dinner? It falls in the nativity season unfortunately.
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Sorry I'm late to reading this, but you and everyone should look at this carefully:


Plenty of days you can eat fish, including Thanksgiving. I save that calendar to my phone and look at it each morning when deciding on my meals for the day.

Also, for those who have trouble keeping a fast because they become weak, dizzy, or tired: in this circumstance it's okay to break fast, in fact it is your duty to take care of the body God gave you. Fasting is not supposed to harm anyone. It's supposed to benefit you. If you have physical problems because of a fast then you must break fast for your own health. Every priest I've known and my Bishop has taught me this.

There is a whole category of sinning that involves excessive fasting and asceticism, for example Chrysostom hurt himself badly because of too much fasting. I cannot remember the name for the excessive fast sin, but regardless it exists and under no circumstance is anyone to fast if it results in harm. If your body needs a specific nutrient or calorie intake, then Christians need to take care of themselves.

The point of fasting is to deny yourself within limits, and once you find those limits - GREAT job, your faith is great and you've pushed yourself to where you can reasonably deny yourself and draw closer to God without hurting yourself. But going past those limits and you're doing the work of Satan by harming or killing yourself.

Remember, if you fast even half of the days you're supposed to, then you're fasting more than 99.9% of humanity. No need to beat yourself up if you break fast here and there.

My Bishop has even gone as far to tell me, "When at a religious ceremony (such as a funeral), or major family holiday, it's okay to break fast and have whatever they serve you."

That said, you can have the best of both worlds if you tell whomever you are sharing the holidays with to provide a fish option. Fish is permitted on a majority of days during Nativity!
 
KulturedKaveman said:
I’m just curious and have a question for other American Orthodox on here. What do you guys do about Thanksgiving dinner? It falls in the nativity season unfortunately.
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You can ask your priest about this, he might be able to give you a blessing to eat more food than usual, or give you some wise spiritual advice.

The Desert Fathers mention several stories about breaking fasts for the sake of hospitality or to avoid appearing arrogant before others.

Similarly, there's a story of St. Paisios who allowed his spiritual son to break the fast of Lent to eat a delicious pastry that was tormenting him in his thoughts (source: The Gurus, Young Man, and Elder Paisios).

Another example: I was struggling with protein levels and priest blessed me to have whey protein during Lent last year.
 
KulturedKaveman said:
Also - the olive oil wine thing. May Orthodox I’ve met take that literally. Wine and hard liquor. Beer is fine in moderation - we are fasting so no partying but a beer is fine. Also many cook with the “approved oils” like coconut or avo oil. I understand many of the “approved oils” are seed oils and you shouldn’t eat them too much anyway. What’s you guys take?
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I think that my priest takes the oil restriction pretty severely with a maximalist meaning, with "zero oil" days being LITERALLY zero oil, including no avocado oil and no coconut oil. He said that the ideal of "zero oil" is actually xerophagy (dry eating) which means bread, raw fruit, raw vegetables, nuts, and maybe boiled soup. Of course it's sometimes hard to hit that ideal during the difficulties of daily life in the world.

Other priest I talked to said that, on zero oil days, at the very least, you should make sure to abstain from olive oil, which is significantly more delicious and substantial than other flavorless oils we consume. This teaching is unexpectedly difficult for me, since I'm often tempted to add olive oil to the vegetarian dishes that I cook during Lent, even though I normally use flavorless oils on meat-allowed days.
 
Samseau said:
There is a whole category of sinning that involves excessive fasting and asceticism, for example Chrysostom hurt himself badly because of too much fasting. I cannot remember the name for the excessive fast sin, but regardless it exists and under no circumstance is anyone to fast if it results in harm. If your body needs a specific nutrient or calorie intake, then Christians need to take care of themselves.
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I've done Wed-Fri all year for pretty much my whole life, but not crazy strict (fish for example). I started back up the last few years with the advent fast, something we never really did growing up. Last year was good, as I didn't drink either, and felt much better overall. This year, maybe it was just the time of the year, but I felt bad and worse due to either type or number (few) calories. It's strange to think that you're doing any good by trading one thing for another - feeling bad energy wise to then trade it for other bad habits or a non joyous countenance. The only positive is at least I'm aware of it. Ironically, I felt so bad at times I drank alcohol (of course a good amount) to see if it would "help" and it really didn't, probably made me feel worse in subsequent days. Ehh, at this point in our strange lives, where we don't have much to worry about regarding day to day survival, there are a lot of other things that we cycle through that make human existence very mysterious.
 
I think in some sense fasting is about failing. On the surface, quitting animal products, avoiding alcohol, eating less, praying more and so on is a simple endeavour.

But even this we cannot do half the time, or when we do keep the dietary rules we eat too much, or forget to pray. I think this serves to demonstrate that we are not the Saints we assume ourselves to be, and that our own efforts are pathetic. Therefore we recognise our dependency on God.

BUT at the same time we cannot excuse ourselves in our weakness and not try to fast. This is the balance we find, something like realising the weakness we have despite our effort, which is preferrable to the weakness of not putting in effort at all.
 
Orthodox Lent (The Great Fast) starts 18 March. Personally, I am going to try to stay away from social media and refrain from reading news articles during this time. I hope I am strong enough to do so. I think fasting of the body should be accompanied by fasting from worldly distractions and noise, as well.
 
Is it possible to get permission from our spiritual father to eat fish fish a couple times a week? If we don’t drink or use oil? Thing is I’m trying to get rid of the dad bod. Do you guys think this is excessively vain? Some Lenten foods are rather carby and I got family that gain weight during lent believe it or not.
 
KulturedKaveman said:
Is it possible to get permission from our spiritual father to eat fish fish a couple times a week? If we don’t drink or use oil? Thing is I’m trying to get rid of the dad bod. Do you guys think this is excessively vain? Some Lenten foods are rather carby and I got family that gain weight during lent believe it or not.
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Practices vary but I know that for some traditions, shellfish (invertebrae seafood) falls outside of all of the restricted categories because there is no blood, i.e. it may always be eaten as a fasting food. So that's one possible approach.

As for your question on fish (vertebrae seafood), don't see why you cannot discuss it with your spiritual father if there is a need, although pure physical aesthetics is probably not going to gain much sympathy from him lol.
 
Samseau said:
Sorry I'm late to reading this, but you and everyone should look at this carefully:


Plenty of days you can eat fish, including Thanksgiving. I save that calendar to my phone and look at it each morning when deciding on my meals for the day.

Also, for those who have trouble keeping a fast because they become weak, dizzy, or tired: in this circumstance it's okay to break fast, in fact it is your duty to take care of the body God gave you. Fasting is not supposed to harm anyone. It's supposed to benefit you. If you have physical problems because of a fast then you must break fast for your own health. Every priest I've known and my Bishop has taught me this.

There is a whole category of sinning that involves excessive fasting and asceticism, for example Chrysostom hurt himself badly because of too much fasting. I cannot remember the name for the excessive fast sin, but regardless it exists and under no circumstance is anyone to fast if it results in harm. If your body needs a specific nutrient or calorie intake, then Christians need to take care of themselves.

The point of fasting is to deny yourself within limits, and once you find those limits - GREAT job, your faith is great and you've pushed yourself to where you can reasonably deny yourself and draw closer to God without hurting yourself. But going past those limits and you're doing the work of Satan by harming or killing yourself.

Remember, if you fast even half of the days you're supposed to, then you're fasting more than 99.9% of humanity. No need to beat yourself up if you break fast here and there.

My Bishop has even gone as far to tell me, "When at a religious ceremony (such as a funeral), or major family holiday, it's okay to break fast and have whatever they serve you."

That said, you can have the best of both worlds if you tell whomever you are sharing the holidays with to provide a fish option. Fish is permitted on a majority of days during Nativity!
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Here's a calendar for 2024 https://antiochianprodsa.blob.core.windows.net/liturgicalinstructions/2024 Fasting Calendar.pdf
 
KulturedKaveman said:
Is it possible to get permission from our spiritual father to eat fish fish a couple times a week? If we don’t drink or use oil? Thing is I’m trying to get rid of the dad bod. Do you guys think this is excessively vain? Some Lenten foods are rather carby and I got family that gain weight during lent believe it or not.
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Yes, if possible I do think it would be a good idea to ask your priest. I asked my priest for permission to have whey protein last Lent and it helped a lot.
 
KulturedKaveman said:
Is it possible to get permission from our spiritual father to eat fish fish a couple times a week? If we don’t drink or use oil? Thing is I’m trying to get rid of the dad bod. Do you guys think this is excessively vain? Some Lenten foods are rather carby and I got family that gain weight during lent believe it or not.
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I mean weight is not only an appearance concern but a health concern also, so its not necessarily vain.

First and foremost fasting is a spiritual discipline. For this reason, if your priest is expecting you to fast by the standard rules, and you go off and do whatever you please, I know from experience that this can be a spiritual disaster. Always get a blessing.
 
KulturedKaveman said:
Is it possible to get permission from our spiritual father to eat fish fish a couple times a week? If we don’t drink or use oil? Thing is I’m trying to get rid of the dad bod. Do you guys think this is excessively vain? Some Lenten foods are rather carby and I got family that gain weight during lent believe it or not.
Click to expand...

I typically lose weight during fasts, I recommend you stop eating sugar (sucrose, not fructose/lactose). Pretty sure that's the culprit if you're gaining too much weight.
 
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