Fasting - all types (intermittent, long, dry, etc)

Papist said:
I have done 18:6 for ten consecutive days now and it's become very easy. Indeed on some days, I have fasted for 20 hours.

Unfortunately, I lack the discipline to fast much longer. Respect to @Kiwi - 14 days is some achievement. However, is it actually healthy to fast for 40 days?
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I have to admit as soon as I typed that my gut instinct told me no way i'm going from 14 day fasts to 40. :ROFLMAO: Especially without doing a 21 day fast first. It's more of a dream to perhaps do one 40 one day fast in my life if i'm being honest.
Is it safe? 40 Day Fast is best done under supervision from what i've read. Many Health retreats or clinics do it that way, so it's entirely possible.

It's a very interesting thing to read about Day 40 in particular. Even doctors and nurses notice a significant difference in the person, that is clear to see and almost tangible. I find it interesting especially related to Religious practice, what that does to the will of a person.

I remember going to church and people being amazed on day 14. Like it wasn't even possible?! This should be normal for us, especially as Christians. But I certainly dreamed and thought of Food 24/7. Your mind does funny things, even trying to rank the best food to eat after the fast. The mind is totally a slave to food, you can't begin to understand until you do a long fast.

Anything after 5 days to me is a different thing than intermittent fasting. It's a completely different tool. Not sure how useful IF is long term - as opposed to going cold turkey and quitting carbs, sugar etc...But I respect those that have it down. We certainly don't need to eat 3 - 5 meals a day.
 
Your body can run off glucose or fat, including the brain, but in the modern world with the diets we have it tends to be only the former. When you fast you start experimenting with the latter.

There is a lot of talk about the idea of being "fat adapted".

Some people find fasting more difficult than others. Once it exceeds 24 hours I can have some tiredness attacks and need to like down, but then I can also be very normal for a whole day despite not having eaten in days. It can come and go in waves..

There are a lot of people filling up pages with almost mumbo jumbo about ketosis and keto etc. My refeeds have been very steak heavy, that has been the first thing I have been breaking my fasts with. Can't bring myself to start with fish at the moment after days without food.

My own take on "fat adaption" is that if you do this for a period of time, at least weeks of rolling 24s or 48s, your chemistry may get better at running off fat. Then if you either follow a keto diet (which I won't do) or perhaps redo a small fast no less often than once every 2 months, it keeps that ability to break down and live off fat more current. Whereas on the other hand if you go for years on a normal diet, and suddenly fast it's as if you have hit the gym after a very long absence.
 
Kiwi said:
I have to admit as soon as I typed that my gut instinct told me no way i'm going from 14 day fasts to 40. :ROFLMAO: Especially without doing a 21 day fast first. It's more of a dream to perhaps do one 40 one day fast in my life if i'm being honest.
Is it safe? 40 Day Fast is best done under supervision from what i've read. Many Health retreats or clinics do it that way, so it's entirely possible.

It's a very interesting thing to read about Day 40 in particular. Even doctors and nurses notice a significant difference in the person, that is clear to see and almost tangible. I find it interesting especially related to Religious practice, what that does to the will of a person.

I remember going to church and people being amazed on day 14. Like it wasn't even possible?! This should be normal for us, especially as Christians. But I certainly dreamed and thought of Food 24/7. Your mind does funny things, even trying to rank the best food to eat after the fast. The mind is totally a slave to food, you can't begin to understand until you do a long fast.

Anything after 5 days to me is a different thing than intermittent fasting. It's a completely different tool. Not sure how useful IF is long term - as opposed to going cold turkey and quitting carbs, sugar etc...But I respect those that have it down. We certainly don't need to eat 3 - 5 meals a day.
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Bobby Sands survived for 66 days on hunger strike, but he was apparently in a very bad way long before that. I think 40 days is pretty extreme, but I'm no expert. Perhaps that's the point where the body starts to decline? My longest fast has barely stretched beyond 24 hours. However, today I fasted for 21 hours without even noticing, so clearly the body adapts to it.
 
Papist said:
I think 40 days is pretty extreme
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It depends how fat you were at the start. If you were a big fattie, obese and everything, 40 days would probably be fine, a positive life step.

If you were already very lean and tried that, surely something bad would happen - you'd run out of fat to burn and start burning organs and muscle.

Probably the average westerner is anyway not very lean and may be able to get away 40 days. The longest I ever did was 5 days and at the moment I struggle to get to 3, just managed 2½ then cracked.
 
stadtaffe said:
It depends how fat you were at the start. If you were a big fattie, obese and everything, 40 days would probably be fine, a positive life step.

If you were already very lean and tried that, surely something bad would happen - you'd run out of fat to burn and start burning organs and muscle.

Probably the average westerner is anyway not very lean and may be able to get away 40 days. The longest I ever did was 5 days and at the moment I struggle to get to 3, just managed 2½ then cracked.
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Aye, a good point. I think one can build up to longer fasts. I'm setting a very modest target of 36 hours by the end of June.
 
Unending Powerhouse Match said:
I've never done full fasts. Maybe I'll try it for a day or two. Is it as simple as just ceasing to eat and consuming nothing but water, or should I also consume supplements or something?
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That is my tip -
Water with potassium chloride, sodium chloride, magnesium sulfate and sodium bicarbonate.
Be careful with the quantities of each however.
 
I have to confess I am prone to abusing stimulants in these multi-day fasts. That is the opposite of what Cole Robinson's Snake Diet proscribes - he wants you to have zero coffee.

In fact my coffee consumption goes from 2 to 4 cups per day while fasting, except that I lose the milk and sugar.

Then I sometimes have black tea or green Japanese tea.

I've even experimented with South American Yerba Mate, but that stuff does not agree with me, leads to an unpleasant state of consciousness.

This caffeine excess leads to an insomnia, and I've been known to have to cancel it out with red wine to be able to sleep at all, which is obviously not fasting. Accelerator and brake at the same time..

And this assumes that it's all about calories and weight loss, but actually fasting has benefits for the mind and spirit and too much playing with stimulants although it may not harm the weight loss thing may detract from the spiritual benefits of fasting.

We're all human with our weaknesses, I doubt I'll suddenly start going for days with zero coffee but would be interested to hear if you guys are taking in stimulants during your fasts.

Actually caffeine free herbal teas are probably okay, I used to have that "Greek mountain tea".
 
It's Friday morning and I haven't eaten since Monday. In a few hours I'll eat again, breaking an almost 4 day fast which is a lot for me.

On Monday I thought I'd go till Saturday, but then on Tuesday changed my mind and thought Friday should be enough. Last night on the scales, my weight was above a certain multiple of ten kilos I'm trying to get below and this morning it had dropped below for the first time in more than a year, so I feel okay about eating again.

Rolling 48s just weren't cutting it. The fat just was not shifting fast enough. Sometimes my weight would plateau and not even go down after 48 hours which was upsetting. I've got several reasons why I'm doing this. Without being too specific, the reasons include being lighter to be able to perform in certain athletic sports to the desired level, optics to be happy with what I see in the mirror and of course, women. Other reasons like health and reducing cancer risk, improve insulin sensitivity, brain health are a bonus, if that's all true.

Was of course max ketosis for the second half of this fast as measured with ketostix.

So at lunch today it will probably start with a large, juicy steak with creamy green peppercorn sauce, with some roast potatoes and vegetables, and mustard. Breaking long fasts leaves me very tired and may even need to sleep an hour or two. It really is a snake diet.. Not sure if it's optimal to be breaking it with something as heavy as steak but I probably can't bring myself to have fish or for that matter an omelet after this. If I broke it with something lighter or carb-oriented there would be the risk of an afternoon and evening of gluttony, but with the steak I will will only just need a small dessert after.
 
stadtaffe said:
It's Friday morning and I haven't eaten since Monday. In a few hours I'll eat again, breaking an almost 4 day fast, which is a lot for me.

On Monday I thought I'd go till Saturday, but then on Tuesday changed my mind and thought Friday should be enough. Last night on the scales, my weight was above a certain multiple of ten kilos I'm trying to get below and this morning it had dropped below for the first time in more than a year, so I feel okay about eating again.

Rolling 48s just weren't cutting it. The fat just was not shifting fast enough. Sometimes my weight would plateau and not even go down after 48 hours which was upsetting. I've got several reasons why I'm doing this. Without being too specific, the reasons include being lighter to be able to perform in certain athletic sports to the desired level, optics to be happy with what I see in the mirror and of course, women. Other reasons like health and reducing cancer risk, improve insulin sensitivity, brain health are a bonus, if that's all true.

Was of course max ketosis for the second half of this fast as measured with ketostix.

So at lunch today it will probably start with a large, juicy steak with creamy green peppercorn sauce, with some roast potatoes and vegetables, and mustard. Breaking long fasts leaves me very tired and may even need to sleep an hour or two. It really is a snake diet.. Not sure if it's optimal to be breaking it with something as heavy as steak but I probably can't bring myself to have fish or for that matter an omelet after this. If I broke it with something lighter or carb-oriented there would be the risk of an afternoon and evening of gluttony, but with the steak I will will only just need a small dessert after.
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Excellent effort mate. Well done!

I definitely wouldn't break it with a steak. Your body craves a steak for good reason, but your body vs a western diet ain't the same. It has the instinct but it's not in tune.
Speaking from experience, the best and most enjoyable meal coming off a long fast was real chicken bones with some meat / vegetable chicken broth and wait.....

Absolutely the same desire and taste as a steak, yet you can wait for your body and mind to catch up and adapt and introduce more digestible, larger quantities of food.

The desire is to feast but quite often you will pay the price if you over indulge and listen to a gut that isn't in tune with nature (or our bizarre western world)
 
I need to start fasting. Nothing too hardcore, just limiting myself to wholesome foods, cutting out snacks and sweets during the later hours of the night. The issue for me has been my job. I've been working till midnight and to keep myself awake I've looked forward to that bowl of popcorn or ice cream every night. Now that I'm leaving my job and I can sleep earlier I've got to get serious about it.

Some desert father said every vice proceeds from a gluttonous stomach.
 
I spent the last few days thinking about not eating, longing to not eat. Just commitments all through the week which made fasting not worth the effort. Still I have thankfully not regained the weight during the last weeks of fasting. Well, went 5kg down now went 1kg up.

This week is clear though, can feel a long one coming on ;) So the 4 day one the other week only did me good, no harm. What sort of harm do I fear - that I will have a car accident due to poor concentration while in strong ketosis?

I may avoid driving, will see. What else, that as a pedestrian, I'll fail to look both ways cause I can't think straight due to low blood sugar.. All a bit irrational.

Usually when I end these fasts, the wish to end it usually comes from craving to have my consciousness return to its regular state, my energy levels return to normal - not so much craving a steak or an apple pie in the moment, just craving to feel normal again. No-one competes in sport or some other endeavour, fasted. Yes, it definitely does enable the mind to do some things out of the ordinary, including closeness to God and one's purpose, but it does lower one's energy.

One of the advantages of days of fasting I've noticed recently is extra time that is suddenly available. Over a 4 day period for example, how many times do you not go to the supermarket, not go to a restaurant, not cook and not do the dishes? Yes I do clean up my coffee grounds but that is a smaller scale of cleaning. Yes, I lose some time during the 4 days as I have to sometimes nap from the exhaustion caused by not eating. Well, it does not cause any kind of constant state of exhaustion in me, but after several days, there is an exhausted state that can come over me in a wave and last an hour perhaps and I have to lie down.

In a mainstream bookshop (in Europe), you generally don't find books or magazines on fasting, just as you don't find copies of the bible. Not sure if it's okay to have those both in the same sentence, but I do feel that it is an ancient wisdom and truth which is at some level suppressed in the mainstream - they talk about dieting maybe about intermittent fasting but somehow without the qualifier of intermittent it becomes a fringe interest, away from the mainstream.

When fasting, craving to eat and feel normal again, or craving the food itself.

Towards the end of the week I just finished with a lot of social occasions, craving to not eat. In the absence of social influences and distractions it is not that hard for me to not eat. So I am much looking forward to my own space and not eating. Well, if some very stressful meeting or a date with some girl suddenly happens during the week I will revert to normality earlier than planned. No point ruining that kind of thing by being in a weird state of mind and smelling of ketosis.

Actually, the search results for "fasting" are horrible, barely worth looking it up, so much hype, especially around the intermittent fasting trend. As I wrote earlier in the tread when I started this phase with an aim at rolling 48s but it just wasn't enough and I was tortured by the scales not always returning a lower number. So now that I experimented with 4 days and nothing bad happened, only good I am open to experiment with longer. No point reading any of the many sources of click-bait and hype of fasting for the answers to what happens after five days, will just have to test a longer period and see. Apart from the fear of accidents mentioned above due to concentration lapses, I have feared a ravenous appetite which may compel me to undo my good work, but that thankfully hasn't happened after 4 days. Also, one meat based meal after that took extra long to digest.

I still think it's good for your health, body and mind, numerous benefits people have mentioned in the thread. If I ever feel it is harming me will definitely mention it in the thread, I fear somehow that after a certain number of days your organs might get harmed or you may start to suffer some serious mineral deficiency, but that number of days is probably a good margin above anything I am contemplating.
 
The great thing about a 3-4 day hard fast is how quickly it can undo the damage we cause after a stretch of eating bad food and not taking the best care for ourselves.

I've experimented with fasting, and my favorite is a 3-4 day fast, with a good amount of physical activity, and drinking unsweetened green tea brewed with cayenne pepper.

The physical activity plus the green tea and cayenne pepper drink seem to boost the positive effects you normally get from a fast of that length. It's a nice spiritual/physical/mental reset.
 
I just broke a 5 day fast. Stopped eating on Sunday and resumed on Friday. Have done 5 days once before. Managed to drop 3.8kg this time which was good. I'm now back at the weight I was at for years before events led me to packing at the pounds. Have to do a bit more of this to drop down to my target weight. It's not fun but it's not that terrible either.

Was actually aiming at 8 days this time, to go from Sunday till the Monday after the next weekend, but was losing too much productivity today and wanted to have a normal weekend and things were just not quite normal anymore.

The Monday was a routine day.

Tuesday morning I over-caffeinated - 3 black coffees and one green tea by about 10:30am. Then I was just hyper-focussed and productive for the rest of the day, couldn't believe it.

Paid for it Wednesday though, waking up with really horrible caffeine withdrawal headache. So I resolved to not do that again and to limit it to just one coffee and one black tea for the course of Wednesday. Had some rage in my fasted headache state at other pedestrians on the footpath Wednesday morning who were blocking the footpath. Wednesday afternoon the headache had cleared, I drove the car quite a bit and didn't have any near misses, was fine. But made a specific point of staying very focused despite being fasted. Made the mistake of mentioning to a normie that I hadn't eaten since Sunday. She said she was also on a diet but thought that what I was doing was crazy and dangerous. Well why have I not died yet then? I think it's dangerous in the same way that covid is dangerous and the covid vaccine is safe! The first rule of Fight Club is: you do not talk about Fight Club.

Thursday was extremely productive despite being fasted.

Had actually mild flu symptoms from early on this time, wonder if it is that much hyped "keto flu".

So today, Friday I cooked a vegetable soup consisting of carrot, potato, leek, sweet potato, onion, garlic, beef stock, salt and pepper and ate the whole thing over several hours. @Kiwi said not to have a steak last time, so I had a meat pasta dish instead and it was almost as bad, sitting in the stomach for a day before starting to digest. So this time I thought I'd follow the general advise of restarting your digestion gently.

Have been trying very hard not to eat any sugar or cake after that soup and am very tempted, but hopefully will not crack.

But will have a normal weekend now eating as usual and doing a lot of sport and weights, and getting into the fasting again soon for the final stretch (or 2 if necessary).
 
In something I was reading on diet recently it mentioned 60 days as the time it takes to starve to death.

Obviously, it's not going to be punctual like that but another source I just found verifies that :

Indeed, among the few (nonpublished) examples of complete fasting and mortality, patients were frail between 30 and 50 days, and death was noted to occur between days 43 and 70, which this case study has reached without obvious or significant frailty occurring. These findings were reported in nonoverweight individuals.
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Food for thought!

This is the source:
Complete and Voluntary Starvation of 50 days
Some formerly obese guy turned up at the doctor after 49 days to ask if it was okay for him to keep going.

This does put it all in perspective, no-one in this thread is really sailing close to the wind although @Kiwi might want to think twice about his 40 day idea.
 
It crossed my mind to break a 60 hour fast tomorrow with steak, just for the taste of it, despite the pain it may cause but then read this and thought I better not
The refeeding syndrome :
It turns out that you can already die following an inappropriate refeeding after 4 - 5 days without food. This sort of thing happens usually with eating disorder patients and POW camps which are liberated and the starved people go and eat the wrong thing for their malnourished state.

Something to do with electrolyte imbalance and abnormal heart rhythms, possible cardiac arrest.

Probably smarter despite temptations, to do it by the book. Not risk a scary situation or hospital.

So there you go, more chance of dying in an inappropriate refeed than by fasting too long.

So this time I am actually cooking bone broth. Feel like I'm following a fad, but will be deviating by turning it into a soup with vegetables as well. Have the steak another time.

Was interesting, I went to an isolated butcher store I've noticed in the next town. I told them I wanted to make soup and they gave me beef chest or something like that and extra bones. They cut it all into smaller pieces with something resembling a bandsaw!

So I will shortly check a recipe to be sure then probably let that simmer all night, add the vegetables in the morning then eat it.

I'm well past the half way point of my weight loss now so it feels different, happier, like the home stretch.

Have done a lot of walking this time, and although I only had a mild case of footpath rage this time I did unfortunately almost get hit by a car twice today :( Not happy about it, only once was close, the driver was most freaked out. Both times they swerved, but he other time was not that close. I will take care with the crossings here especially when fasted. Fasting may not make me crave food as such but the effect of ketosis on the mind gives me a particular kind of impatience. Mentioned I once had very nasty road rage when fasted, not my normal self.

I manage to stay productive while fasting, well for this not so extreme length of time.

Next time I will try to make my walking happen in nature and force patience at the crossings especially in peak hour on a Friday afternoon when everyone's trying to get home :(

Will time things so I'm fed not fasting by Friday afternoon to be sure.

This is why this kind of thing is best done in a very rural environment, better for the mind as well, but you have to work with what you have.
 
stadtaffe said:
It depends how fat you were at the start. If you were a big fattie, obese and everything, 40 days would probably be fine, a positive life step.

If you were already very lean and tried that, surely something bad would happen - you'd run out of fat to burn and start burning organs and muscle.

Probably the average westerner is anyway not very lean and may be able to get away 40 days. The longest I ever did was 5 days and at the moment I struggle to get to 3, just managed 2½ then cracked.
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Ive done 60 hours before but felt quite tired and rundown. It does occur in waves, and the mind certainly obsess about food.
stadtaffe said:
It crossed my mind to break a 60 hour fast tomorrow with steak, just for the taste of it, despite the pain it may cause but then read this and thought I better not
The refeeding syndrome :
It turns out that you can already die following an inappropriate refeeding after 4 - 5 days without food. This sort of thing happens usually with eating disorder patients and POW camps which are liberated and the starved people go and eat the wrong thing for their malnourished state.

Something to do with electrolyte imbalance and abnormal heart rhythms, possible cardiac arrest.

Probably smarter despite temptations, to do it by the book. Not risk a scary situation or hospital.

So there you go, more chance of dying in an inappropriate refeed than by fasting too long.

So this time I am actually cooking bone broth. Feel like I'm following a fad, but will be deviating by turning it into a soup with vegetables as well. Have the steak another time.

Was interesting, I went to an isolated butcher store I've noticed in the next town. I told them I wanted to make soup and they gave me beef chest or something like that and extra bones. They cut it all into smaller pieces with something resembling a bandsaw!

So I will shortly check a recipe to be sure then probably let that simmer all night, add the vegetables in the morning then eat it.

I'm well past the half way point of my weight loss now so it feels different, happier, like the home stretch.

Have done a lot of walking this time, and although I only had a mild case of footpath rage this time I did unfortunately almost get hit by a car twice today :( Not happy about it, only once was close, the driver was most freaked out. Both times they swerved, but he other time was not that close. I will take care with the crossings here especially when fasted. Fasting may not make me crave food as such but the effect of ketosis on the mind gives me a particular kind of impatience. Mentioned I once had very nasty road rage when fasted, not my normal self.

I manage to stay productive while fasting, well for this not so extreme length of time.

Next time I will try to make my walking happen in nature and force patience at the crossings especially in peak hour on a Friday afternoon when everyone's trying to get home :(

Will time things so I'm fed not fasting by Friday afternoon to be sure.

This is why this kind of thing is best done in a very rural environment, better for the mind as well, but you have to work with what you have.
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Is it more the amount, or the type of food to refeed with? I feel like a hunter/gatherer finally getting a deer after a week of hunting wouldn't eat himself to death on a refeed.

Just curious.
 
For 60 hours (2.5 days) I think you are at extremely low risk from refeeding syndrome. The example with POWs is much more extreme, going all the way to malnourishment and starvation, where the body is breaking down actual muscle to survive. Most normal people will not get to that stage within just 60 hours.

Another excerpt from Tools of Titans, from which i've quoted previously:

For a 14-day or longer fast, you need to think about refeeding carefully. But for a 3-day fast, I don’t think what you eat matters much. I’ve done steak, I’ve done salads, I’ve done greasy burritos. Evolutionarily, it makes no sense that a starving hominid would need to find shredded cabbage or some such nonsense to save himself from death. Eat what you find to eat.
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Anecdotally, I have had big steak lunch with friends after four days (96 hours) of fasting, with no ill effects.

(Purely speculation, I am not a medical professional: I think that after 48 hours of fasting, once the body has used up it's store of glycogen, it goes into fat-burning mode and autophagy, cleaning up dead cells and recomposing them. Adding steak gives your liver fresh "building material" it can immediately use to build back your body. I also suspect that moderate exercise will help this along.)

As an update, after the first 30 days of my "fasting" experiment, I can report the following.

- 18 of those days were full day fasts
- 10 of those days I had one meal
- 2 of those days I had two meals

Those meals were ones I couldn't politely avoid with family and friends.

After 30 days, I've lost 22 pounds. I fit into clothes I haven't fit into since before COVID. My wife reports that I've stopped snoring. Simply put, I feel good.
 
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