Did Pope Francis Allow Priests to Bless Same-Sex Relationships?

[Samseau]

There is no question that the Faith as taught and believed until 1958 (when Pope Pius XII died) is true. The idea a false sect could credibly have all the signs and hallmarks of the true Church for 1,958 years is totally improbable - impossible, even.

Bro you aren't even trying. You can quote Popes as late as 950 AD claiming that they would never act unilaterally without the rest of the Church, that the Church must always act as one and that the Pope is always equal to other Patriarchs.

I would recommend reading some history.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

They can't see the paradox of their position. If you are going to say we should go back to Vatican I, then why not say: go back, all the way back, to when the Pope was still part of the Orthodox Church (for 800 years lol). The vast majority of the Catholic Church is a sad mess. I pray for them all the time.

According to the US Census the Catholic Church lost 5% of it's membership in the past 10 years. It's no joke to say the Catholic Church is collapsing, although they aren't collapsing as fast as Protestant Churches, who lost 10% membership in the past 10 years.

Protestant Churches are being turned into condos, bars, and restaurants at breakneck speed all over the country. But I've seen the same thing happen to Catholic Churches.

Would anyone be surprised if the next Pope allows women as priests, but still refuses to let male priests marry?

When the RCC has women priests (and maybe even a black Lesbian pope in our lifetime), the "trads" will still be on about how the RCC is the "most traditional" and "most based" because their male priests are celibate (even though in the universal Church of the First Millennium celibacy was not required for the priesthood), and how the Orthodox "caved" and "liberalized" by allowing priests to marry.

 

[Genealogist]

When the RCC has women priests (and maybe even a black Lesbian pope in our lifetime), the "trads" will still be on about how the RCC is the "most traditional" and "most based" because their male priests are celibate (even though in the universal Church of the First Millennium celibacy was not required for the priesthood), and how the Orthodox "caved" and "liberalized" by allowing priests to marry.

Lol. Why not just admit that if Sedevacantists don't consider the Vatican II entity the Catholic Church, there goes your entire premise?

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

Sedevacantists don't consider the Vatican II entity the Roman Catholic Church, so there goes your entire premise.

"Trads" are 95% SSPX/FSSP/ICKSP types who recognize Francis as pope. Sedevacantists are a small fringe who claim to hold onto the Vatican I Roman Church while also rejecting Vatican I (which teaches that the Roman See is indefectible and will continue until the end of time). Sedes also have no mechanism for electing a future pope. Good luck, Sir!

 

[SeaEagle]

This thread is retarded and the lack of charity especially from the Orthodox is putting me off the forum quite honestly.

You can have your own echo chamber if you want.

 

[paternos]

This thread is retarded and the lack of charity especially from the Orthodox is putting me off the forum quite honestly.

You can have your own echo chamber if you want.

I never really got into denominationalism myself. I do have preferences in my faith, though. It's focusing on our differences instead of what we share.

I think it's a lack of perspective, especially when people are on the road to choosing which church they call home. They start to focus on the differences, but when they find a home in a church, those differences slowly dissipate.

Like with choosing a car, when you're about to buy one, you're focused on all the brands and types, and the differences. But when you have it, it just brings you from A to B. As living faith should bring us closer to God.

Some people keep talking about cars and the differences between them, forgetting the aim of the car. It's the same for churches – it's a consumerist attitude instead of getting to drive the car, or learning how it works, repairing it, or building it. They get stuck in this mindset and never become one with the Church of Christ, the heavenly Church.

Like people being caught up in the marketing hype of cars, it's similar for denominations – and it's the same for choosing a wife. It's not really about what you pick, or about showing that you picked well; it's about what you put into it.

If 50% of your energy goes to proving to others your denomination is better than the others, something is wrong with you. The focus should be on God, not on the world.

Happy Easter, everyone.

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

If 50% of your energy goes to proving to others your denomination is better than the others, something is wrong with you. The focus should be on God, not on the world.

I agree with this paragraph. Proselytism in general is, from what I understand, not something Christians should be doing. But a lot of what you said in the rest of your reply sounds like ecumenism.

 

[paternos]

I agree with this paragraph and I don't think debates on the differences between denominations ever go anywhere. Mostly they just bring strife. Proselytism in general is not good. But a lot of what you said here sounds like ecumenism.

Well it's the opposite I would say.

To quote Chesterton in his book Orthodoxy:

It has always had a healthy hatred of pink. It hates that combination of two colours which is the feeble expedient of the philosophers. It hates that evolution of black into white which is tantamount to a dirty gray. In fact, the whole theory of the Church on virginity might be symbolized in the statement that white is a colour: not merely the absence of a colour. All that I am urging here can be expressed by saying that Christianity sought in most of these cases to keep two colours coexistent but pure. It is not a mixture like russet or purple; it is rather like a shot silk, for a shot silk is always at right angles, and is in the pattern of the cross.

I like that.

Ecumenism is dislike. Severly dislike.

Ecumenism is the concept and principle that Christians who belong to different Christian denominations should work together to develop closer relationships among their churches and promote Christian unity

I like red and white and black. What Chesterton call pure.

Whatever I have seen in Ecumenic service is plain awful. It's dirty grey.

I prefer black and white. But we can see the beauty of Reformed Bible knower and we can see the beauty of Orthodox marriage, the incense, the mystical.

I think we do God more service in staying pure how he shaped us. Appreciating the differences.

 

[Samseau]

This thread is retarded and the lack of charity especially from the Orthodox is putting me off the forum quite honestly.

You can have your own echo chamber if you want.

Considering the majority of attacks on the Pope are coming from your fellow Catholics, I have a feeling whatever Catholic forum you go to will suffer the exact same "problems" you see here.

By the way, they aren't "problems," you guys are just burying your head in the sand while you've got heretical Popes. Obviously it's going to cause massive divisions within your ranks.

 

[SeaEagle]

Considering the majority of attacks on the Pope are coming from your fellow Catholics, I have a feeling whatever Catholic forum you go to will suffer the exact same "problems" you see here.

By the way, they aren't "problems," you guys are just burying your head in the sand while you've got heretical Popes. Obviously it's going to cause massive divisions within your ranks.

I don't believe any of your statements are correct.

 

[GoodShepherd]

Thoughts?

 

[BasilSeal]

Considering the majority of attacks on the Pope are coming from your fellow Catholics, I have a feeling whatever Catholic forum you go to will suffer the exact same "problems" you see here.

By the way, they aren't "problems," you guys are just burying your head in the sand while you've got heretical Popes. Obviously it's going to cause massive divisions within your ranks.

Also Samseau:

Therefore, being overly judgmental is against the forum rules, and making assumptions about people you haven't met are against the rules.

 

[SerbRebel]

This thread is retarded and the lack of charity especially from the Orthodox is putting me off the forum quite honestly.

You can have your own echo chamber if you want.

As a cradle Orthodox person myself, I state that some of us are haughty and full of ourselves. Even I tire of the our faith is the only true faith and dismissing outsiders.

 

[Samseau]

Also Samseau:

What assumptions, or judgements have I made against you or anyone else here?

 

[BasilSeal]

Assumption: that "your fellow Catholics" includes Sedevecantists. That is a bad assumption, and really seems disingenuous. Show me the Catholic members leveling the attacks?

Judgement: that "you guys are just burying your head in the sand". Strength of faith is measured in the bad times, not the good. Respectfully, abandoning Catholic dogma is not a solution.

 

[Genealogist]

Assumption: that "your fellow Catholics" includes Sedevecantists. That is a bad assumption, and really seems disingenuous. Show me the Catholic members leveling the attacks?

Judgement: that "you guys are just burying your head in the sand". Strength of faith is measured in the bad times, not the good. Respectfully, abandoning Catholic dogma is not a solution.

Sedevacantists uphold all Catholic doctrines and profess the Faith whole and entire.

 

[Samseau]

Assumption: that "your fellow Catholics" includes Sedevecantists. That is a bad assumption, and really seems disingenuous. Show me the Catholic members leveling the attacks?

You can clearly see that Sed's profess to be Catholics. No assumptions about anyone from me.

Judgement: that "you guys are just burying your head in the sand". Strength of faith is measured in the bad times, not the good. Respectfully, abandoning Catholic dogma is not a solution.

No one is telling you to leave your Church. I've said quite the contrary right from the start of this thread.

But as far as Catholic "dogma" goes, it seems like anything goes. Vatican I dogma is replaced by Vatican II dogma and it looks like pretty soon LGBT will be dogma.

I'm not saying these things to judge your Church. I'm genuinely concerned and pray for Catholics, as I have many Catholic family and friends. This stuff horrifies me, quite frankly. Many Catholics are rightfully disgusted, but rather than hear their concerns it seems most Catholics try to deny or hide from reality, which makes the problem 10x worse. Denial will lead to massive schisms within your Church. I know PurpleUrkle, a Catholic, has called this Pope a fag right in this thread, and while I generally do not like to call gays fags, I know PurpleUrkle is far from alone in his feelings as some of my closest Catholic friends also have said the exact same thing to me.

Orthodox stand up to their clergy if they start doing heretical things, and even bad Patriarchs have been tossed out before. All of these things I've mentioned in this thread. I can't understand why for the life of me Catholics will not do the same when you've got blatant heresy being pushed - Catholics shouldn't be getting defensive here, this is way bigger than that, you guys should instead be thinking of ways to defend your Church. Contacting Bishops, speaking out in your Church, etc. I think there is a cultural difference between how Orthodox and Catholics handle heretical clergy, and it offends Catholics.

I know I wouldn't sleep if LGBT stuff started to creep in my Church. You know it won't stop once it starts.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

You can clearly see that Sed's profess to be Catholics. No assumptions about anyone from me.



No one is telling you to leave your Church. I've said quite the contrary right from the start of this thread.

But as far as Catholic "dogma" goes, it seems like anything goes. Vatican I dogma is replaced by Vatican II dogma and it looks like pretty soon LGBT will be dogma.

I'm not saying these things to judge your Church. I'm genuinely concerned and pray for Catholics, as I have many Catholic family and friends. This stuff horrifies me, quite frankly. Many Catholics are rightfully disgusted, but rather than hear their concerns it seems most Catholics try to deny or hide from reality, which makes the problem 10x worse. Denial will lead to massive schisms within your Church. I know PurpleUrkle, a Catholic, has called this Pope a fag right in this thread, and while I generally do not like to call gays fags, I know PurpleUrkle is far from alone in his feelings as some of my closest Catholic friends also have said the exact same thing to me.

Orthodox stand up to their clergy if they start doing heretical things, and even bad Patriarchs have been tossed out before. All of these things I've mentioned in this thread. I can't understand why for the life of me Catholics will not do the same when you've got blatant heresy being pushed - Catholics shouldn't be getting defensive here, this is way bigger than that, you guys should instead be thinking of ways to defend your Church. Contacting Bishops, speaking out in your Church, etc. I think there is a cultural difference between how Orthodox and Catholics handle heretical clergy, and it offends Catholics.

I know I wouldn't sleep if LGBT stuff started to creep in my Church. You know it won't stop once it starts.

The reason Roman Catholics won't be throwing out their pope and the bishops he appoints is because it's impossible to do this according to Roman Catholic dogma after Vatican I.

Vatican I states that all must believe (under pain of anathema) that:
-No one can judge the pope.
-Not even an ecumenical council can judge a pope and reverse a pope's decisions.
-Even the pope's disciplinary decisions must be judiciously adhered to.
-The pope has the right to appoint and fire all bishops in every single diocese in the world (so you become a bishop if he likes you, and you can lose your status as a bishop if the pope dislikes you).
-The pope is the foundation of the Church and will continue to be until the end of time.

There is a common myth in Roman Catholic circles that "Oh, the pope's role is super limited, we don't even really have to listen to him at all." That's not what Vatican I teaches. And Vatican I anathematizes anyone who doesn't believe in the doctrines clearly articulated within it.

This is why Sedevacantists exist. The Sedevacantists are in many ways the most logical/honest Roman Catholics. They see the current pope, they see that it's impossible to match his existence with Vatican I doctine (ignoring indefectibility), and so they say that it must be that he's not the pope.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

As a cradle Orthodox person myself, I state that some of us are haughty and full of ourselves. Even I tire of the our faith is the only true faith and dismissing outsiders.

This is ecumenism and is condemned by all Orthodox saints. I guess you know better than the saints? Don't pretend then to be Orthodox. Go join a protestant sect that shares your beliefs.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

This thread is retarded and the lack of charity especially from the Orthodox is putting me off the forum quite honestly.

You can have your own echo chamber if you want.

I sincerely apologize if it seems like we're attacking you. I started posting to this thread because your fellow Roman Catholics accused us Orthodox of "caving" and "giving in" and "liberalizing" by allowing divorce and remarriage. They attacked, and I defended with clear historical and Scriptural evidence for why the Orthodox position is what it is. Should we just let people spread falsehoods about Orthodox teaching and Church history that will cause confusion among the readers of this thread? It's very sad to see our Roman Catholic friends on this forum start to become extremely fragile when we Orthodox defend ourselves, resulting in accusing us of being "uncharitable" all because we have our own theology that, for good reasons, differs from theirs.