Did Pope Francis Allow Priests to Bless Same-Sex Relationships?

paternos said:
Can't you imagine someone take Christ as his #1? Follow him and start no family? All focus on God vs family?

These are conscious choices, if you want to life the degenerate life with gay sex you have all the freedom to do so today.

Bit surprised, find it quite dumb actually and arrogant, how easily many of you here accept the state propaganda against the roman catholic church.
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Of course I can imagine it. Its extremely rare. Not usually something that occurs frequently enough to staff every single parish in an international organisation.

And I am talking about an era when there was a social stigma attached to being a homosexual. Its only pretty recently that being a man and being single into your thirties and fourties was viewed without suspicion.

I see no reason to deny the facts. I'd say it is sadly inevitable given the structure in place. I don't have any reason to cope.
 
Lawrence87 said:
Of course I can imagine it. Its extremely rare. Not usually something that occurs frequently enough to staff every single parish in an international organisation.

And I am talking about an era when there was a social stigma attached to being a homosexual. Its only pretty recently that being a man and being single into your thirties and fourties was viewed without suspicion.

I see no reason to deny the facts. I'd say it is sadly inevitable given the structure in place. I don't have any reason to cope.
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I'm personally quite impressed.

Last week was in a monastery. A group of men working together in serving God.

A deep spiritual place.

A parish priest might be different for me personally. Though I sense a different depth here with the deacons (who can marry) and the priests, who more or less have the same education.

The non-married ones can be more radical. They don't need to think on the schools of their kids, they don't need to be politically correct to be accepted by the community.

The connection with homosexuality / child abuse is preposterous and just propaganda to destroy the church.

I have seen all international christian societies are a danger to the rulers. The roman church, but also the Jehova's are getting their share now. But ofcourse none reach the Catholic size even close.

I think the Catholic church is the real danger due to it's size. And as long these rulers are there, the church will be under propaganda and financial attacks.
 
Cornelius V.E. said:
Pope Francis defends homosexual civil unions for those "who live the gift of love": https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/p...-unions-for-people-who-live-the-gift-of-love/
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2 John 5-6 KJV
And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
 
paternos said:
I'm personally quite impressed.

Last week was in a monastery. A group of men working together in serving God.

A deep spiritual place.

A parish priest might be different for me personally. Though I sense a different depth here with the deacons (who can marry) and the priests, who more or less have the same education.

The non-married ones can be more radical. They don't need to think on the schools of their kids, they don't need to be politically correct to be accepted by the community.

The connection with homosexuality / child abuse is preposterous and just propaganda to destroy the church.

I have seen all international christian societies are a danger to the rulers. The roman church, but also the Jehova's are getting their share now. But ofcourse none reach the Catholic size even close.

I think the Catholic church is the real danger due to it's size. And as long these rulers are there, the church will be under propaganda and financial attacks.
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Both are true.

Catholic Churches have attracted a far higher proportion of homosexuals than compared to other Churches because of their celibacy rules for Priests.

At the same time, most Catholic Priests are innocent. But even 1% or 2% being gay is a serious problem that causes enormous damage to the reputation of a Church.

As the Apostle Paul said, Priests must be blameless. They are naturally held to an extremely high standard relative to the rest of society, so they can be role models. Judging Priests isn't supposed to be "fair." All clergy are called to be not of this world, and you know this.

That said, I can believe Catholic Monks are pure, and not homosexuals like many Catholic Priests are, because Monks are asked to give up money and good food, in addition to sex. Giving up all these things pretty much means your average sodomite has no chance to last in a monastery. Only the pure will survive.

But Priests are a totally different story and it should come as no surprise that gays sneak into the Catholic Church that way. They probably have done so for centuries, although the problem has become more acute now because as our culture became more sexually charged it has tempted gay Priests to act out on their desires, causing incredible damage to the reputation of the Roman Church.
 
Samseau said:
Both are true.

Catholic Churches have attracted a far higher proportion of homosexuals than compared to other Churches because of their celibacy rules for Priests.

At the same time, most Catholic Priests are innocent. But even 1% or 2% being gay is a serious problem that causes enormous damage to the reputation of a Church.

As the Apostle Paul said, Priests must be blameless. They are naturally held to an extremely high standard relative to the rest of society, so they can be role models. Judging Priests isn't supposed to be "fair." All clergy are called to be not of this world, and you know this.

That said, I can believe Catholic Monks are pure, and not homosexuals like many Catholic Priests are, because Monks are asked to give up money and good food, in addition to sex. Giving up all these things pretty much means your average sodomite has no chance to last in a monastery. Only the pure will survive.

But Priests are a totally different story and it should come as no surprise that gays sneak into the Catholic Church that way. They probably have done so for centuries, although the problem has become more acute now because as our culture became more sexually charged it has tempted gay Priests to act out on their desires, causing incredible damage to the reputation of the Roman Church.
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Most of the gay abuse allegation are inflated false propaganda aginst the church.
 
paternos said:
Most of the gay abuse allegation are inflated false propaganda aginst the church.
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Yes, and I agreed with you, which is why I put the number at 1-2% being actually gay. Then out of that 1-2%, only 1-2% were abusers.

It doesn't help though that some of the abusers were Bishops, however, which again is extremely damaging to the rep of the RCC.
 
I think the modernist definition of "love" has promoted a multitude of sin, not covered it.

Romantic love's (the feelz) replacement of covenantal love (sacrifice to the greater good) in marriages unleashed post-marital hypergamy and serial monogamy onto the fruitless quest for the woman to find [yet another] The One(TM).
 
Thomas More said:
Good grief. He's supportive of people replacing the sacraments with secular substitutes, because people who prefer a non'Christian alternative to the real sacrament are still good people.
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That's because Francis is a Naturalist and so leaves out supernatural considerations. With regard to his support of civil union laws for sodomites, this is vile but it is old news. He had indeed lobbied for that back in Buenos Aires and has continued this support even as "Pope". The really newsworthy thing is Francis' calling sodomites "people who experience the gift of love". This is arguably a new low for the pretend-pontiff, who just a few weeks ago had reached a milestone by nonchalantly referring to homo couples as "two people who love eachother" - this was effectively an endorsement of sodomite unions and gives impetus to the 'love is love' campaign of aberrosexuals. Now, by claiming that homosexuals "experience the gift of love", "Pope" Francis has established a premise that will allow the "LGBTQ" lobby to make ever greater inroads into Novus Ordo parishes. Bergoglio knows what he is doing. He is trying to make sure that there will no longer be any effective resistance against perversion from (putative) Catholics. That's what his uber-mercy and Fiducia Supplicans are ultimately about.

1 Corinthians 5 is a stinging rebuke and refutation of the false merciful-inclusion-at-all-costs gospel of "Pope" Francis (Jorge Bergoglio).
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Check it out:
Why, there are reports of incontinence [unchastity] among you, and such incontinence as is not practised even among the heathen; a man taking to himself his father’s wife. And you, it seems, have been contumacious over it, instead of deploring it, and expelling the man who has been guilty of such a deed from your company. For myself, though I am not with you in person, I am with you in spirit; and, so present with you, I have already passed sentence on the man who has acted thus.

Call an assembly, at which I will be present in spirit, with all the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, and so, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, hand over the person named to Satan, for the overthrow of his corrupt nature, so that his spirit may find salvation in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. This good conceit of yourselves is ill grounded. Have you never been told that a little leaven is enough to leaven the whole batch? Rid yourselves of the leaven which remains over, so that you may be a new mixture, still uncontaminated as you are. Has not Christ been sacrificed for us, our paschal victim? Let us keep the feast, then, not with the leaven of yesterday, that was all vice and mischief, but with unleavened bread, with purity and honesty of intent.

In the letter I wrote to you, I told you to avoid the company of fornicators; not meaning everyone in the world around you who is debauched, or a miser, or an extortioner, or an idolater; to do that, you would have to cut yourselves off from the world altogether. No, my letter meant that if anyone who is counted among the brethren is debauched, or a miser, or an idolater, or bitter of speech, or a drunkard, or an extortioner, you must avoid his company; you must not even sit at table with him. Why should I claim jurisdiction over those who are without? No, it is for you to pass judgement within your own number, leaving God to judge those who are without. Banish, then, the offender from your company.

(1 Corinthians 5; Knox translation)
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If the next Pope is anything like the current one, we will see a massive implosion of the Catholic Church in the 21st century. This kind of heresy is unsustainable, they will die like the Anglicans (who currently have lesbian female bishops).

Pray for the Catholic Church, looking very grim right now.
 
Samseau said:
If the next Pope is anything like the current one, we will see a massive implosion of the Catholic Church in the 21st century. This kind of heresy is unsustainable, they will die like the Anglicans (who currently have lesbian female bishops).

Pray for the Catholic Church, looking very grim right now.
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The problem is Vatican II. The problem isn’t (limited to) Francis. God mercifully articulates through him the tenets of Vatican II, so that we can get at the root of the rot. Vatican II inaugurated a new non-Catholic religion. The "popes" who taught the false religion are not Catholic, therefore not popes. Read "The Dying Novus Ordo Religion" by Bp. Donald Sanborn: https://inveritateblog.com/2019/02/23/the-dying-novus-ordo-religion/

Modernism’s basic principle is that the Catholic Church must be adapted to the modern world. This idea is what has dominated Vatican II and its reforms. But the modern world embraces perverse, atheistic, relativistic, agnostic, and immoral ideas and practices, to which Vatican II has conformed the Church. But to conform the Catholic Church to these things is to kill it. This is precisely what is happening before our eyes.

The Novus Ordo religion is still operating on the immense strength of pre-Vatican II Catholicism. Just like a hurricane over land continues to turn even after it has lost its source of power, so the Novus Ordo is still functioning as an institution because it is still drawing from pre-Vatican II power. But just as the hurricane eventually dissipates, so too will this new and false religion of Vatican II dissipate.
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Genealogist said:
The problem is Vatican II. The problem isn’t (limited to) Francis. God mercifully articulates through him the tenets of Vatican II, so that we can get at the root of the rot. Vatican II inaugurated a new non-Catholic religion. The "popes" who taught the false religion are not Catholic, therefore not popes.
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But you aren't seeing the big picture. Why was Vatican II instituted?

There is no such thing as a Pope with universal jurisdiction. Vatican II was an inevitable consequence of breaking away from the mother Church, you know - the same Church Christ created in Jerusalem.

Having a centralized authority in a Church is heresy, first off, because only Christ is the central authority in the Church. But once we have centralized authority, all it takes is for a few evil Popes to bring the whole Church down.
 
Samseau said:
But you aren't seeing the big picture. Why was Vatican II instituted?

There is no such thing as a Pope with universal jurisdiction. Vatican II was an inevitable consequence of breaking away from the mother Church, you know - the same Church Christ created in Jerusalem.

Having a centralized authority in a Church is heresy, first off, because only Christ is the central authority in the Church. But once we have centralized authority, all it takes is for a few evil Popes to bring the whole Church down.
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Was Peter not called to be the rock on which the Church was to be built? Sounds centralized to me.
 
SeaEagle said:
Was Peter not called to be the rock on which the Church was to be built? Sounds centralized to me.
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Not at all. Christ said the least among you will be greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. Christ himself exemplified his own teachings by washing the feet of his disciples, and giving up His life on the Cross.

This is reinforced in the book of Acts when Peter was making a decision on circumcision - Even though Peter was pro-circumcision, and argued with Paul extensively, he still listened to all, prayed, and received a vision explaining to him that it was okay not to be circumcised yet still be a Christian.

Peter never acted unilaterally or centralized, instead listened to all, and then asked God and Christ for help (since they are the true leaders of the Church), before giving his opinion. How Peter behaved on this subject is exactly how the Council of Nicaea was handled. The councilar nature of the Church was self-evident to all, which is why no universal Pope existed back then.

Additionally Peter was not just the Pope of Rome, but also the Pope of Jerusalem. None of the current Catholic history or theology surrounding Peter makes sense. Christ is King, and Christ left beyond a Holy Aristocracy to watch over his Church, even if one of those Aristocrats was to govern among them.

The assertion of the Universal Pope is why the Great Schism occurred, and the Protestant Reformation. Now we see the Pope pushing LGBT nonsense and if the next Pope is like this then the Catholic Church will experience nearly 100 years of extreme heresy (from 1965 - 2065).

How can any Catholic see all the troubles, and apostasy in their Church, and not conclude that the institution of the Papacy is the problem? How can Catholics not see the Orthodox Church with few of the problems of the Catholic Church, and not see the Papacy as the problem? It simply boggles my mind.

At some point, the cognitive dissonance for Catholics will be too great to bear - but I suppose there is still hope if the next Pope isn't a heretic. I think Benedict was supposed to be a decent Pope, but then he got forced out somehow and now the Catholic Church is suffering more than ever before.

My current Priest, who was a former Catholic, switched to Orthodoxy after Benedict "retired," because he was so disillusioned. Afterwards he met an Orthodox woman 25 years his junior, married her, and became a Priest in my diocese. Every Sunday I get to listen to great Catholic sermons, corrected with Orthodoxy, and watch his many children grow up in my Church.

I love the Catholic Church, in spite of it's many problems. I attended mass at the Notre Dame as a young man in 2008 and saw how wonderful it was, but there were less than 40 people in attendance for a Church that could house 20,000. I knew there were serious problems in Catholicism then.

I always pray for the reunification of Churches. But the commitment to the universal Papacy, when it is so clearly flawed and broken, continues to baffle me. No Catholic I speak with can ever give me good answers as to why it should continue.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits." And the fruits of the Papacy continue to be more and more fruitless as time goes on.
 
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"The Russian Church’s document, “On the Orthodox Attitude to the New Practice of Blessing ‘Couples in Irregular Situations and Same-sex Couples’ in the Roman Catholic Church”, was developed by the Synodal Biblical and Theological Commission, headed by His Eminence Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev) of Budapest.
According to the new document, “the ideas expressed in Fiducia Supplicans declaration represent a significant deviation from Christian moral teaching and require theological analysis”.
While “proclaiming fidelity to the Christian understanding of the Sacrament of Marriage and the practice of blessings", the Catholic document “actually postulates a sharp departure from this fidelity”.
“In the context of the processes taking place in the Christian community, this document can be perceived as a step towards the full recognition by the Roman Catholic Church of ‘same-sex unions’ as a norm, which has already happened in a number of Protestant communities”, the Synodal Commission notes.
“All believers, including those with homosexual aspirations, need pastoral care. However, this pastoral care must not be aimed at legitimizing a sinful lifestyle, but at healing the soul of the suffering,” the Russian Church document states".
 
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