Decline of Functioning Society

[FrancisK]

Some older properties are low quality and some newer buildings are high quality but on average confection quality has degraded over time worldwide. There are still stone houses built 800 years ago in Europe that people are still living in today (albeit after renovating them). Nothing that is built today will last 800 years.

Yea that's true but just as you pointed out it's not absolute one way or the other. We're talking about common homes here not outliers, or at least I thought we were it doesn't make much sense to use blatant outliers as talking points.


(just as i'm typing this i heard a semi truck blast into something just outside my warehouse, haha surprised I still have power right now lets go see what he hit)

 

[Australia Sucks]

Yea that's true but just as you pointed out it's not absolute one way or the other. We're talking about common homes here not outliers, or at least I thought we were it doesn't make much sense to use blatant outliers as talking points.


(just as i'm typing this i heard a semi truck blast into something just outside my warehouse, haha surprised I still have power right now lets go see what he hit)

Yes I’m talking about common homes also. If you pick at random a stone or double brick home built 100 years ago vs picking at random a home built 2 years ago the home built 100 years ago has more chance of still being standing 100 years from now than the home built two years ago. Older homes often have many problems with dampness, poor insulation, lack of soundproofing, bad electrical wiring etc but at least the foundations are solid unlike the newer homes which might be more comfortable and better in those other aspects but the foundations are not designed to last long term.

 

[FrancisK]

Yes I’m talking about common homes also. If you pick at random a stone or double brick home built 100 years ago vs picking at random a home built 2 years ago the home built 100 years ago has more chance of still being standing 100 years from now than the home built two years ago. Older homes often have many problems with dampness, poor insulation, lack of soundproofing, bad electrical wiring etc but at least the foundations are solid unlike the newer homes which might be more comfortable and better in those other aspects but the foundations are not designed to last long term.

You're right I agree cheaper material is being used now and homes are being built for cheap comfort instead of longevity I would be lying if I tried to argue otherwise but that doesn't mean that old homes were better. The aforementioned lead paint, asbestos, aluminum wiring, galvanized pipes among countless other things kinda negates any advantage an old home would have over a modern home in comparison.....again I agree but it's not cut and dry to just say old homes were better and that is not me defending modern construction I actually prefer older homes with some character but you have to look at it realistically from all angles. Does it matter if it has better brick and foundation at that point, do you want your family living in a home built to the standards of 100 years ago or the standards today?

It's different topics here, I guess to your point I could say that 100 years ago for every stone house built there was a tin shack that crumbled to the ground but that's meaningless.

I just don't see what waxing endlessly about the past does for us there is no discussion in that, especially the dramatization of it.

 

[Cooper]

That's all well and fine, you're going on a tangent and ignoring what I said about your example because you don't want to admit it was disingenuous to use the absolutely most egregious outlier possible to make a point.

I don't agree that older construction was better that is entirely subjective this is coming from someone who owns and has owned multiple rental properties built in the 30's through 00's.....believe me NOTHING is more expensive than an old house. Do you want to talk about lead paint, asbestos, aluminum wiring and galvanized pipes? That would be similar to the outlier SF point you tried to make.

Detroit isn't Ann Arbor just like Oakland isn't San Francisco that is again a very disingenuous cherry picked outlier that serves no purpose but affect. Maybe I should indeed sit here and tell you about $1 Detroit homes to make an argument as if it's somehow valid.

If we're going to talk about something lets talk about it honestly and genuinely with validity, not pearl clutching open mouthed pointing at sky is falling dramatization.....that's nothing but manipulation which we don't need nobody has their eyes closed here.

You haven't addressed my counterpoint, here it is again:
Every "coastal" city has had tremendous appreciation in real estate, I used SF, but could have used LA, Orange Co, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Boston, NYC, Miami etc. Even cities like Denver, Nashville, Charlotte have had 10x appreciation from the 70s.

You live in a small market in the midwest, right? Maybe you're the outlier here.

Does this look like a healthy picture to you, no cherrypicking, this is a national average:

 

[Northumber]

I just don't see what waxing endlessly about the past does for us there is no discussion in that, especially the dramatization of it.

There's an unhealthy and healthy way to do this.

I essentially think it's a little unhinged the way the modern monoculture that now spans the whole world drives for progress at all cost.

Given that I think that, it's not too difficult to simply, step to the side, on some things. ...provided you're not being threatened with things like mysterious injections if you don't participate. Luckily there's been a reprieve from that one.

 

[FrancisK]

You haven't addressed my counterpoint, here it is again:
Every "coastal" city has had tremendous appreciation in real estate, I used SF, but could have used LA, Orange Co, Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Boston, NYC, Miami etc. Even cities like Denver, Nashville, Charlotte have had 10x appreciation from the 70s.

You live in a small market in the midwest, right? Maybe you're the outlier here.

Does this look like a healthy picture to you, no cherrypicking, this is a national average:

I'm not arguing that housing has not increased exponentially, nobody would make that argument you're trying to pull me into a strawman to dissuade from what I'm telling you. I am speaking to the concept of you using the most egregiously blatant disingenuous outlier possible to make that point as if it has any validity beyond just affect.


The past was better so I am going to be upset about it today and rile up everyone with me by presenting the most dramatic example I can, I have absolutely no idea what purpose that serves anyone other than to try and manipulate them especially considering how you yourself said you are doing well in life. I don't know how else to make that point to you and explain how it reflects on you, you just want to defend it that's fine have at it I don't have anything against you for it to have gone this far.

 

[FrancisK]

There's an unhealthy and healthy way to do this.

I essentially think it's a little unhinged the way the modern monoculture that now spans the whole world drives for progress at all cost.

Your mouth to Gods ears brother, I'm as old school and traditional as a 40 year old can get but to sit around and be unhappy because the past was better than it was today and to offer it to someone as crutch is a very sad thing to be doing.

 

[Northumber]

Your mouth to Gods ears brother, I'm as old school and traditional as a 40 year old can get but to sit around and be unhappy because the past was better than it was today and to offer it to someone as crutch is a very sad thing to be doing.

Yeah, it's the being unhappy part. We can always chose our reaction to whatever happens. Easier said than done, but best to at least try. As far as the past being better.... I think this used to always be understood, in a way. This understanding was acknowledged through tradition and telling stories of old

 

[FrancisK]

Yeah, it's the being unhappy part. We can always chose our reaction to whatever happens. Easier said than done, but best to at least try. As far as the past being better.... I think this used to always be understood, in a way. This understanding was acknowledged through tradition and telling stories of old

Yea we all long for the old days when things made more sense, whether that is based in reality or not doesn't matter it doesn't change it. Today and now we have to do our best, the past is gone and it's dangerous to pretend we can go back.....that just holds us down. But of course that doesn't mean we can't strive for better today...