Apparently in USA in the 1700's and 1800's in some areas adultery was a death penalty crime and they did carry out some executions
Death Penalty
- Thread starter Kido Butai
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Also as an aside, I think Belarus is the only country in the Orthodox world with the death penalty. I can count on one hand Catholic countries with the death penalty. The US is one. Death penalty in todays day and age seems largely a relic of authoritarian regimes and Islamic countries.
The US is a Catholic country?
Some people here are mixing up the roles of the Church and the State. The Church should definitely work towards people's repentance and lead them to Grace. But the State has not only the right, but an obligation to execute laws that punish degenerate and society-destroying behavior. I suspect that some here are operating from a Sacralism mindset, which is why the responsibilities of one are being confused for the responsibilities of the other, and that's how it bore out historically.
The Byzantine Empire had death penalty, in my experience Catholics are more against the death penalty than Orthodox are. As to why "Catholic" countries are more supportive of the death penalty is more because Catholic countries aren't actually Catholic. Just Catholic in name only.
I am pro-death penalty btw, lots of good reasons why, however, it must be applied with extreme care.
US got a lot of cardinals and Catholic is the largest Christian denomination. In mass media when someone’s about to be executed it’s always a Catholic priest. Episcopal church is a pseudo Catholic Church that was mainline in the US for ages.
I am in favor of Swift and Frequent public executions for capital offenses.
Murder and violent rape = hanging
Murder and violent rape = hanging
This is historically true everywhere, there is a master apprentice relationship if the old timers notice the potential and the will to earn the PhD title. There is a universal prison slang in Poland. They seem to also be aware and inform themselves who the families of policemen, lawyers, judges, politicians, prosecutors and the like are, as it's mostly ordinary people falling victims to burglars, racketeers, and even petty criminals.
I remember one smart commentator on TV in the 90 in Poland saying crime could be stopped overnight if the government really wanted to do it, which was also my own opinion. There is as much crime as the government permits. If they don't want to, they also won't let the people take matters into their hands, and deny them the right to self defence. Politicians and career government bureaucrats work hand in glove, they're all pals.
My solution, and it's really unacceptable to most, would be to chemically castrate dangerous, violent criminals, remove their dominant hands and eyes surgically, and hand them back to their families for care, or let any bleeding heart Democrats support their continued existence. Maybe tattoo their primary evil traits on their foreheads too.
My issue with this is that the courts are not perfect. There are thousands of innocent men locked up today. Some say it could even be 5-10%. Not everyone gets a fair trial. Take Derek Chauvin for example. Better to let 10 guilty men go than lock up one innocent, which is a serious sin.
I'm favor of mutilation or death for repeat violent offenders if absolute certainty of guilt can be established, but often it cannot. Public acts of terrorism, however, are an ideal case for its application.
The best option is public whippings or canings though. Singapore is extremely safe because of it. If the state makes a mistake, the damage heals and financial restitution can still be made. The prosecutor can also be whipped, for example. False accusers, especially women who make false rape accusations, should also face serious punishment.
I'd never heard this, so I asked Brave AI:
So, if this is correct, the only case of an execution for adultery was in colonial times, before the USA existed as an independent country.
I've read one former inmate say up to about 25% in the US. I talked to my father a few days ago, he'd usually thought innocent people could be around 10% of those in Polish prisons, maybe more. He mentioned it since they get to keep their voting rights and that's the percentage of the prison vote the right gets- some presidential poll numbers just came out.
I agree guilt would have to be established beyond any doubt, as fair a trial as possible is a must. Though God knows the score as they say, people ought to do the best they can in the quest for justice. I don't know where to draw the line, in my mind nobody should be punished if the evidence is weak- let him walk, and let the course of life sort it out, with the reputation following him or her. To me it's more about annihilating danger, destroying a threat, stomping out the bad seeds, and I'm referring to generally low IQ street thugs for whom crime is a way of life (those are nothing like Chauvin), rather than intelligent and calculating psychopaths- e.g. a jealous doctor killing his wife's lover. What I wanted to say is with violent thugs, gangbangers, and professional bandits who cause grave bodily harm, and when there are victim survivors, or crime scenes with good forensic evidence, there are clear cut cases. Chauvin is a normal 'good citizen', I wouldn't mind him as a neighbor, I don't worship cops, the people involved in the justice system are probably not my friends (some Christian judges may be), but I nearly always side with them, in a system where people like him go to jail, we will never get what I advocate.
And when people worry about precedents, every malevolent government in history did whatever it wanted, and went as far as it did, without precedent, because they could; no precedent is needed when it comes down to that, and things deteriorate that much. The guys locked up in El Salvador I believe are known to be no angels- if executed, it wouldn't weigh too heavy on the society's conscience. I don't know- if they could be crippled for life, instead of getting the death penalty, if that would satisfy some Christians opposed to the death penalty, then again, pope John Paul II said what Bukele is now doing is the way to go, that the modern state can do without capital punishment while keeping the people safe.
If I were a surgeon I wouldn't take the job doing what I proposed, some people volunteer to be executioners though, and there are psychopathic doctors, and other professionals. I couldn't work in a slaughterhouse either, I always enjoy a steak. I think I'd kill anybody without qualms, if they had hurt someone in my family, as a Christian I shouldn't feel this way, but I'm vengeful, this wine I could get totally drunk on, but I guess it comes from my own strong aversion to criminal behavior, the more I hate it, the farther it is from who I am as a person, if I or my family are involved, the harder I want to go on the actual evildoer. Crippling dangerous criminals saves costs, but it's indeed barbaric- it wouldn't bother me I think, it's their problem not mine. In my ideal world most of them wouldn't live long enough to deal with the system, people of good will outnumber them, and could clean up the problem themselves if they were free to do so, and had the support of the government- the mob comes to extort you, you shoot them dead on the spot, set them alight with a flamethrower, whatever, friends and family can help, and your peers look at the surveillance video- OK, great job, nice shot, thank you hero of the day. Thou shalt not murder is the original meaning of the commandment, necessary killing is different when the life of your family is in danger, it's of course nothing to look forward to, and thankfully very few have to. And I'm all for restitution too whenever possible, instead of prison, it makes no sense to isolate non-violent offenders from society.
During the martial law of 1981 in Poland, many political prisoners were on purpose incarcerated together with hardcore criminals, a common strategy, like in a gulag. They have confirmed that when death penalty, known as 'the cap' in the prison slang [he got, they gave him], was on the books, it was an effective deterrent, and an important factor in future crime planning, it was hard to come across somebody willing to go do a wet job.
To add to the point about governments letting criminals run loose, that TV talk I mentioned I'd heard in the nineties was about drugs, which quickly became a bigger issue at that time. After Communism fell, the previously almost impenetrable borders became porous. Before, the importation of drugs wasn't easy. For comparison, along The Polish-Soviet border, on the Russian side, ran a strip of land- tilled every day to make footprints visible, and the armed guards with dogs would kill without thinking twice. The Austrian - Czechoslovak border also had an electrified fence- with many sections rusted, and in general disrepair due to the very few past daredevils willing to risk it.
I wish some European countries would bring back the death penalty for certain cases. They are importing people from countries with extremely harsh regimes where the people only behave as they know what happens if they don't.
With whippings and canings it's not limited to Singapore either :
en.wikipedia.org
There appears to be a famous case of an American who was caned in Singapore for going on a path of mayhem property damage in the streets :
en.wikipedia.org
It sounds like the issues with diplomatic relations were worse than the caning itself.
Julian Assange rotted in jail for years for telling the truth and little was done whereas there was an enormous scandal as this young guy was going to be caned a few times for general mayhem in the streets. Apparently he said he could not sit for a while but it did not take that long to heal.
This was an interesting comment -
In the west it's either fines or prison and not much else. Well, electronic ankle bracelets. Only the US has the death penalty AFAIK.
With whippings and canings it's not limited to Singapore either :
Judicial corporal punishment - Wikipedia
and
Amputations! That is over the top. Whipping or for some really bad stuff, capital punishment. Amputations would be a sign of a society where people were behaving like out of control animals.
There appears to be a famous case of an American who was caned in Singapore for going on a path of mayhem property damage in the streets :
Caning of Michael Fay - Wikipedia
It sounds like the issues with diplomatic relations were worse than the caning itself.
Julian Assange rotted in jail for years for telling the truth and little was done whereas there was an enormous scandal as this young guy was going to be caned a few times for general mayhem in the streets. Apparently he said he could not sit for a while but it did not take that long to heal.
This was an interesting comment -
While I think your conclusion is true, Christ did not supersede the Mosaic Law, rather he fulfilled it, as He teaches in Matthew 5:17. In the process he became the true interpreter of the law, whose teachings reveal its ultimate and true intent (as we see throughout the sermon on the Mount in Matthew). Further his fulfilment of certain aspects of it transformed its application to the people of God, this side of his coming (hence Peter in Acts is told 'take and eat', etc).