Don't do it brother, they're there shopping for their homes and families they're not there trying to get picked up. It's like going out to eat and one of my friends hitting on the waitress, dude she's there working she's not there to be your entertainment. I understand the concept of how women in an innocent environment would be the ones that you would actually want but maybe pick a place where it's more of a social setting and no I don't mean the club. But at the same time a little hole in the wall and there are a couple girls there and you buy them drinks and be social....that's not the worst thing it's not like those are club bottle rats. Among many other scenario also of course.
I'm not trying to put you down please please don't see it that way. I just think you can do better than that, like have more pride and respect than that and absolutely not to say you are not a respectful man.
But again not saying you're doing something wrong just giving my opinion so as to the situation you spoke of if it were me in a situation like that, the gym, the grocery store, a restaurant, a park....innocent places. You can maybe give a smile or just say "hi how are you" as they walk past and just see if the girl is receptive to it and then go from there. If it happens so be it and if not then that's fine too, but from my experience it actually happens a lot where just a friendly comment will draw a smile and lead to a further playful conversation. It's important to present yourself well and come off as kind and sincere with friendly intentions, again you're not at a place where people are there to socialize but if it happens so be it....it happens a lot.
I am a bit surprised to see this point raised so strongly. Let me emphasise that I respect you as a poster in general, and appreciate your respectful tone above. My disagreement is about this particular issue only. Some thoughts follow that are not simply a response to your post but also address concerns noted elsewhere about similar discussions on CIK.
Re: Objection 1 - "you are harassing women when they don't want to be approached".
Well, most men
are needy, cannot read signals, and should not be approaching women in public. A lot of street approaching is uncalibrated, unwanted and, in many cases, genuinely borders on mild harassment. However, I want to emphasise the mild nature of these interactions for the most part.
In contrast, there are also
A LOT of legitimately creepy dudes with near zero social awareness in major cities who make women scared on public transport etc. These men often have drug issues, mental health problems, etc.
That said,
men can learn how to start interactions with good intentions, harmless vibes, and by giving value. Reading signals is also an essential skill to develop, while simultaneously being outcome independent and avoiding any reliance on gaining instant approval. For instance, reading too much into friendliness from women behind the store counter is good for the ego but not for much else. In this context, keep it light, short, and move on.
Importantly, women need men to approach them, because women do not take initiative. Telling men they shouldn't approach and placing restrictions on such discussions here would likely take us back to the end times of RVF when the courting sub-forum was banned. This left single men with no discussions that could offer a tangible path forward for development of relationships and marriage.
Re: Objection 2 - "daygame is about short term sexual encounters and you won't meet a wife from that"
It is true that men can
try to meet women (nearly) anywhere and try to have sex quickly. Yet men can also
try to meet wife material women (nearly) anywhere. A man can
choose to only approach women with tattoos, short skirts, showing cleavage etc, given that these are visual cues that suggest openness to quick sex. Conversely, a man could also
choose to only approach women with no tattoos, no crazy hair colours, not much skin showing etc.
Of course wife-worthy women are rare these days, but that doesn't change the key point here:
Learning about socialising, communication, sales, psychology, relationships etc can be used for good or bad or something in between. I think it's in men's best interest to consider this information and to gain knowledge while being guided by men who have longer term experience and wisdom on their side, especially men with a conservative stance and Christian ethos. Younger men need guidance, and shutting out conversations about courtship may lead some of them to seek help elsewhere, in places with more liberal values.
In addition, many young men these days are overly reliant on dating apps and social media for interacting with women. These men badly need ongoing help with initiating interactions in the real world.
Now, there is a clear risk that a few men, reporting about courtship, will
say they hold conservative values and
say they want a relationship but who will
actually try to escalate things sexually based on pure opportunistic availability. This is a risk, however, that I believe is already well recognised and managed adequately here.
In sum, a man can decide what kind of relationship he wants and guide these interactions forward, or decide to end them, based on his goal. Socialising and communication is what you make it.
Further discussion here:
You have to make them respect you. Their natural inclination is not to do so. If you're too willing to please them, they see that as a weakness, not worthy of their respect.
Agreed. Some wise posts in this thread. I'm glad we are having a realistic discussion about relationships.
What is "game" exactly?
The meaning of game seems to be up for debate and there is a
lack of consensus about its definition and scope. I define it as something along the lines of "the internal intergration and external embodiment of attitudes, traits and behaviours that facilitate...
I thought we needed a thread to record our everyday dialogues with women we are approaching and attempting to court.
Lately, I've been going to my local mall to buy clothes and hopefully run into some women along the way. There's one store here that has both a knickknacks section and a women's clothing section. It's like 90% women in the store, but a man can justify being in there if he's looking at all the other stuff they've got that's not part of women's apparel. So I often like to go into this place, not just in hopes of talking to a woman, but to look at all the other interesting merch they're selling.
It would be quite easy to start up a convo in this store IF the woman was in the knickknack section. But they never are. Too bad, as it would be easy to comment on these items and strike up a natural convo. Try doing that in the women's apparel section....
Nice idea.
I don't see a question here so I'm not sure if you are looking for feedback (?)
If you are, I'll give you some tips that are based on experience, not just theory. Prior to meeting my wife, I developed a couple of long term relationships that
only happened because I took action to make incidental socialising a regular habit. Also, some of my close friends have met their wives through incidental approaching. One friend (non-church going), who I instructed on this topic, met his wife in a grocery store. Years later, I was a groomsman at his wedding, and they now have children. Another friend who I mentored (very red-pilled and now church-going) met his wife in a book store. I also went to his wedding and they're currently planning for children. So, many great things, not just empty sex, can come from random encounters.
Now, some action tips as a start:
- Every time you go outside, make a conscious effort to make small talk with everyone, where the situation permits. E.g., waiting in line somewhere.
- Practice light chit chat with store clerks and other workers (remember that almost all workers will be nice as part of their job, so move on quickly to avoid overstaying your welcome).
- Where possible, try to make the other person smile or laugh. Keep everything friendly, light, and fun.
- Use situational cues to start a conversation with women about something in the environment, with no further outcome in mind. (For the Maddox example, you could walk into a women's clothing section and simply ask why X thing is popular. No need to escalate further. This is just making random conversation to build your social skills and comfort, and hopefully to brighten the day of someone else just for a few moments. Thus, no need to worry about having a deeper "reason" to be there.)
- Maintain this practice on a regular basis.
- Ensure, where possible, that it's balanced with socialising through church, friends, social circle, groups/clubs, work etc.
Some critical aspects of growth and mindset:
- Get feedback from the environment, friends, and others. If you haven't achieved your goals yet, consider the value of listening to others who have achieved similar things to what you want.
- Use self-reflection to adapt and improve. Always be ready to look inwards as a means to grow. It's essential to be brutally honest with yourself, and not to shy away from making real self-assesments about both your strengths and areas to work on.
- Try to "give" in early interactions without any expectation of reciprocation. Be ready for some people to look at you weirdly, ignore you, make you feel rejected etc. This is an unavoidable part of taking social risks.
- It's difficult to over-emphasise how important it is to steel yourself mentally/emotionally and to become resilient in the face of rejection. Yet men must take such risks, and persist in the face of them, to succeed in life.
And from there...
Once you get more confident with the above, then you can advance to consciously approaching attractive women and transitioning from indirect situational chats that last under a minute, to deeper conversations that could go anywhere. And beyond.
I hope this helps.
