Charlie Kirk Thread

Purple had a bad experience and therefore is more emotionally invested in this topic than other people.

The fundamental catholic conception of punishment as more to do with the reestablishment of natural order. The order established by God. It´s an ethical reaction to evil. The primary goal of law is to reestablish what was perturbed. To correct what was wronged. Only when law can´t reestablish what existed before. There´s monetary payments. But that´s not the primary purpose. The primary purpose is to maintain and recoup the natural order. A person wronged should be after law acts be put in the same condition she was before the violation. Sometimes that´s not possible so the violator has to pay has a second possibility.

You cant ressuscitate Kirk in order to restablish the order which existed before. so yeah. His widow and society will have to suffice with the jail of the shooter (if he was the shooter) and monetary compensation. Unfortunately that´s the best option available to restore natural order. His widow wishes are irrelevant. It´s God who decides. God order needs to be restablished.


"Pius XII stated that "punishment is the reaction, demanded by law and justice, to fault: it is like a blow and a counterblow. The order violated by the culpable act demands reintegration and restoration of the disturbed balance. Punishment itself can therefore have no other meaning and objective than to bring back to the order of duty the violator of the right, who had emerged from it. This order of duty is necessarily an expression of the order of being, the order of the true and the good, which alone has the right to exist, in opposition to error and evil, which represent that which should not be." This same retributive dogma had already been announced by St. Thomas Aquinas in these terms: "Anyone who rises against the order of things must expect repression from that same order (...) hence the threefold punishment that the sinner incurs: one that comes from himself, remorse; another from men; a third from God." And Michel Anquestil states, along these lines: "The mechanism of punishment derives from the principle of reaction: in the domain of nature, as in the domain of culture, all beings react to one another, and each order of reality defends itself in particular against all aggression, against every act that tends to destroy it."

The concept of retribution in law is not so much to make a vengeance. Actually it´s said that criminal law starts where vengeance ends. The idea of having retribution is to make an equivalent between the crime and punishment. If you commit libel you shouldn´t be sentenced to death.

When the shooter killed Kirk he disturbed the balance of society. And society needs him to be punished for the balance to be restored.

Kirk widow can forgive the shooter. But society/nature cannot tolerate such actions. Because doing so would mean agreeing on the violation of God established order.

DEUS VULT!
 
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Its been multiple decades of giving forgiveness while evil continues to grow. that is why some are understandably pushing for more righteousness and delivering of justice. They need to be balanced appropriately to maintain a healthy society, that is what the law was supposed to do at their discretion. but this is now completely lost. Sometimes an act of forgiveness is enough to change someones heart but other times only harsh retribution will do it. Unconditional forgiveness to those who do not see the value of this gift but only understand retribution is detrimental to all. Cultural/ethnic/spiritual differences in people have to be taken into account to determine how much forgiveness or retribution is needed to achieve positive results. For some receiving forgiveness is like a few drops of water on a fire it will do nothing, or even encourage them which is the status quo for too long.

I want to let go of this right vs left divide thinking and transcend it and look for shared values, because we are getting played like fools. but i also know there are absolutely elements that are so far gone they can not be reasoned with, and forgiveness will not do anything for them.

yes we should try to follow jesus in his example to forgive, but we are not jesus, we will never be capable of love to the extent that god has love for us. Sure speak out and forgive if that is trully what you feel. But if it is forced because they think they need to fulfill that expectation it is not a good thing. It is okay to need more time to process the murder of your loved one and not resort to forgiveness in a few days or a week. Most of us are not saints like that.
 
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The forgiveness of the widow is irrelevant. This is bigger than her. Society cannot tolerate such actions. It’s against the natural order of things. The balance is broken. And the only way to patch it up. Is for the assassin to be punished. Even though this is just a patch. Because the killing of someone is irreversible. Unless we consider natural order coexists with someone to kill a father and husband and walk freely. Every action leads to a reaction. And the Catholic christian order doesn’t tolerate violation of God natural order of things. It’s unbalanced to do so.

DEUS VULT!
 
I've been seeing some clips of the memorial service. I saw Erika walk out with fireworks going off all around her and couldn't watch it anymore.

I used this word before when I was commenting on the Vatican drone show where they did giant reconstructions of things like the Pieta that loomed over St Peter's Dome....

It's profane.

I read what Erika said about forgiving our enemies in her speech and I like that part but the shear spectacle and production of it all is very difficult to watch. More and more I think sacredness is simply not compatible with the world we are moving further into.

I apologize for this comment a couple pages back. I've had a few days to reflect and realized that I should be generous in attitude, especially towards fellow Christians' intent towards honoring Charlie's death. I'm sure my own attempts at sacrality could be criticized as profane and could likely be seen as that from God anyways. We all have these less-than-ideal structures in the world to deal with. Lord have mercy on us.
 
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