So selling Bitcoin when it’s at an alltime high with a current 100% ROI to repair the roof on your house vs, option 2 taking out a home equity loan because your emergency liquid cash fund has been reduced due to another recent true emergency and hasn’t been rebuilt yet? Explain your approach to a real world situation by not cashing out Bitcoin for a real-world expense-requirement.
Yes, TAKE OUT A HELOC!! Instead of selling something that will double every year or two, borrow in money that is inflating at 10% per year, at an interest rate of 7%. You are actually making money, the more you borrow with that spread.
This is the mistake poor people constantly make. Selling assets that hold value and paying extra taxes on top, VS simply borrowing cheap, devaluing currency to buy or fix assets.
Or, if you have no equity, take a loan against something else…stocks, other real estate or bitcoin. Selling assets means you are moving backwards, and paying taxes to a government that doesn’t care if you live or die, as long as you are obedient.
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So when do you plan to sell/spend your Bitcoin? Just plan to never touch it and provide inheritance to your children/grand children? Eat rice and buy nothing for next X years.
If I saw a business or investment that can produce a 80-100% compound annual growth rate, I would consider selling my Bitcoin, but probably just taking out a loan. The risk free rate with Bitcoin is 50%, so either it would need to produce a 10%+ return in Bitcoin, or 80%+ in Fiat.
If I don’t use it to buy a business, and just to live on after retirement, I would either take loans against a Bitcoin life insurance policy (then selling the Bitcoin for zero capital gains tax), or again, simply use Bitcoin as collateral for fiat loans.
I don’t see any reason to ever sell, when I can just take out loans on it forever. As it appreciates, take out new loans to pay the old ones off, and live on the excess. That way, there is no capital gains tax, and you still own the asset, which continues to appreciate. This has been done in real estate since the advent of fiat, and this is what nearly every wealthy dynasty does to preserve family wealth.
TLDR: you never sell an appreciating asset…you get the money for it AND keep the asset, and pay back the loan with less valuable dollars later, using the now more valuable asset as collateral for a new loan.
You don’t take out an 80% LTV, maybe 5%, or 10%. If the Bitcoin price drops by 80%, you still don’t get a margin call. On $20M or $100M worth of Bitcoin, 10% is plenty to live on until there is another doubling in price, when you can get a new loan.
I’m never selling or buying anything that would be taxable as cap gains.
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It's incredible that you don't see the problem with this. Seriously, have you actually thought this through or are you just regurgitating the absolute nonsense being peddled by the Bitcoin maxi crowd?
Let's say you own $1,000,000 worth of BTC and I loan you $100,000 at 5% interest. You will use the money to live off so you don't have to sell your precious Bitcoin. A year later the bill comes due and you owe me $105,000. You must either sell a portion of your BTC for USD to pay me, or else secure another USD loan. Over the year, you are delighted that BTC has appreciated 30% and your stack is now worth $1,300,000. Since you love BTC so much and refuse to sell, you secure another loan, this one for $205,000 at 5% interest which you will use to pay me back on the original loan ($105k) and the remainder to live off for another year ($100k). Another year passes and you now owe me $212,250. Unfortunately, as it has done several times throughout its history, Bitcoin suffered a severe contraction this year, and its value has dropped 70%. Your stack is now only worth $390,000, and given that its recent plunge has spooked lenders relying on your BTC for collateral, you are unable to secure another USD loan. You are then forced to liquidate over half of your remaining stack to pay off your existing loan, leaving you with $177,750 worth of Bitcoin.
You simply cannot rely on rolling over debt forever, especially in a rising interest rate environment, and especially not with an asset as volatile as Bitcoin acting as your collateral. The entire idea of taking on debt is using it to accumulate assets and/or develop business operations which allow you to create a cash flow to service and eventually pay off the debt. You don't just keep taking on more and more debt to cover your old debt. At least, you don't do that for very long until it blows up in your face and you go bankrupt.
Thats good what you doing, just so you know I dont spend much time on my bitcoin app, its like your bank account, you not always logging in to check whats in your bank account, I have set the notifications on so I can be notified when major things are happening. Keep your matress cash, although after a few years the value of that matress cash goes down because the government is using a printing machine to print cash out of thin air, something that cant be done with bitcoin.
It takes some time to understand bitcoin, what it is and how it works, well it did for me @chance vought gave me some good resources to understand it, the Michael Saylor series on what is money is over 10 hours, I played it while driving around and eventually got through it, worth the listen and Im halfway in the book called the Bitcoin standard which is also very good, since then Iv even spoken to wealthy financial advisors and I was shocked that they dont even know or understand Bitcoin and Im just a novice myself.
Another good example is Andrew Torba the owner of GAB, he was banned from 5 banks and he mentioned how much bitcoin helped him and GAB as he was still able to do transactions through bitcoin and even today you can donate to GAB through bitcoin, you can bypass the banks and unlike a bank that takes 1-2 days to clear bitcoin clears in a very short time, in seconds and minutes not days
Stop making stuff up.
Yeah, those rich people, they don't know what they are doing, do they?
Of course there are certain constraints that you can give as examples (lower net worth) to scare people, but rest assured I've exposed your fear mongering again.
Rich people have tangible real world hard assets, walk into an investor meeting with your bitcoin app and they'll laugh at you. They'll tell you to go liquidate it and then maybe bring that to the table when and if they ever finish laughing at you.
The guy running a pump thread trying to convince people not to sell for a gain with memes shouldn't be talking about exposing someone. Have some humility and self awareness instead of attacking anyone who has a different opinion, what you're exposing is yourself.
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You can take out loans against stable coins and the interest is only 5-6% generally
I haven’t done it but it sounds no different than taking equity out against your home .
I’m not saying it’s a good idea or a bad idea but you can do it
As for todays crypto news
That’s overall bullish. However remember when one person or entity holds a vast majority of the coins they(Blackrock in this case) can do a rugpull and sell their entire supply at once and cause a crash. I’d guess we still have a few months of a bull run(anywhere from.3-12 months depending on the coin)
As for my own personal journey into meme coins, I’m only holding 6 meme coins and the rest are utility coins that I’ve mentioned to death.
I’d say that the matt furie coins I mentioned are still in a good buy zone as they are so new
Here’s Duckey currently 1.2m market cap, been ranging from 800k to 1.8m all day
Contract address 0xdc69c06e796ddbe2ca5e3d99f6fd8c40dfd9584a
And true enough they are already on coingecko and coin market cap . They have fast tracked and paid extra to get on 5 exchanges mexc, poloniex, gateio, otx, bingx
That will increase the access to the coin but also increase the volatility as the price will be all over the map. I’m very bullish on Duckey. Backed by Saudi oil baron marketing money, they are aggressively marketing to push the price up. Otx is a tier one exchange and the others are tier 2.
The other big meme coin I’m holding is bone.
Ca
0x7076de6ff1d91e00be7e92458089c833de99e22e
Currently 5.2 million market cap. Another day of interviews and marketing . They are taking a different approach than Duckey in that people listen to the YouTube videos or interviews and get bullish and want to buy. Duckey’s team is far more aggressive at spending to fast track and get results, bone is seeking the long term hodlers.
If you want to buy now I’d suggest not going crazy and putting in too much, a 500 hundred dollars now and then sell most of it in a few months at a massive profit and leave a small moon bag in case it becomes the next Pepe or doge coin.
It’s early, and while that’s good because the price is so cheap a lot of things can go south. I don’t think either one is a rug pull but an early buyer with a large share of the tokens could rug the project. I like both but am slightly more bullish on ducky as they have a lot more marketing money .
There were a number of spoof Duckey coins that showed up today (such is crypto) so make sure you use the right contract address
Tomorrow will be weird. Alex Becker the YouTuber is creating his own meme coin but wants it to be like a treasure hunt and isn’t giving the contract address
So there will literally be dozens of new “Alex Becker zzs fake scam coin” listings tomorrow
Lenders don't get spooked because there is zero risk...zero. Unlike any other asset, it can be liquidated immediately in the event of a margin call. Rolling the debt over works as long as fiat exists, and the information asymmetry exists between people that own bitcoin and people that don't.
@FrancisK what net worth do you consider rich?
@Blade Runner is not running a pump thread for memes. He sees bitcoin as I do. I wish we had a separate thread for only Bitcoin, but alas, we don't.
Bitcoin loans - Unchained
Use your bitcoin to get a loan from Unchained, the bitcoin native financial services company with multisignature security & great customer service.
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unchained.com
Eventually, bitcoin loans will have the lowest interest of any collateralized loans. Currently the problem is, anyone who understands bitcoin as pristine collateral, would rather just own bitcoin, instead of loaning money. Larger banks getting involved will be able to create the money for the loan, which will lower the interest rate to mirror short term bond rates.
@GoodShepherd bravo for finishing the Saylor Series! And now you know, more than ever, that so-called experts and authorities don't necessarily know more than you. In fact, most of them are regurgitating whatever they learned from Keynesian economics, with no further thought or rational thinking from first principles. They are like exactly like a priesthood, who, instead of looking at the evidence, would put Galileo under arrest for the rest of his life, for defending Copernican heliocentrism.
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The reason this doesn't seem to make sense, is because there is not a "free-market" in lending. If there were, people who had to earn the money would demand a much higher interest rate for loaning it, to someone starting a business, etc. Imagine, you saved your entire life and have $1 million to lend: are you going to accept 5% interest, over 10 years? or 30 years? I doubt it. The risk you are taking, vs the reward, doesn't make sense to a rational actor.
The actual loan market is this: banks create money, that they didn't earn, and charge rent on that money. They can charge very low interest, because there is literally NO opportunity cost (and no risk, since they didn't earn the money in the first place). They didn't create value in the economy to earn the money with blood, sweat, and tears. They just created it out of thin air, and now YOU must work for the money (doing labor for the bank) that they simply created out of nothing. That's why interest rates are far below what they should be, even while the currency is depreciating so rapidly: banks have literally nothing to lose, since all the debt slaves are working for them.
I suggest reading The Creature From Jekyll Island, it explains this in great detail and clearly.
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@FrancisK what net worth do you consider rich?
@Blade Runner is not running a pump thread for memes. He sees bitcoin as I do. I wish we had a separate thread for only Bitcoin, but alas, we don't.
Bitcoin loans - Unchained
Use your bitcoin to get a loan from Unchained, the bitcoin native financial services company with multisignature security & great customer service.
Eventually, bitcoin loans will have the lowest interest of any collateralized loans. Currently the problem is, anyone who understands bitcoin as pristine collateral, would rather just own bitcoin, instead of loaning money. Larger banks getting involved will be able to create the money for the loan, which will lower the interest rate to mirror short term bond rates.
@GoodShepherd bravo for finishing the Saylor Series! And now you know, more than ever, that so-called experts and authorities don't necessarily know more than you. In fact, most of them are regurgitating whatever they learned from Keynesian economics, with no further thought or rational thinking from first principles. They are like exactly like a priesthood, who, instead of looking at the evidence, would put Galileo under arrest for the rest of his life, for defending Copernican heliocentrism.
Rich to me means being able to care for the people you love, but that's more of a philosophical thing. When I said "rich" it was in response to the concept being discussed.
I own bitcoin, I have no issue with bitcoin or any ethical investment I can make money on for that matter. My issue is with the ridiculous speculation being thrown around here and trying to convince brothers to invest and never sell while incessantly knocking down any dissenting voices like this is a penny stock forum. Talking about it like it's some no risk slam dunk when it's probably the opposite of that compared to any other investment possible.
Because selling bitcoin will make you poorer, in the long run. This has been true for 15 years, and bitcoin has not changed. Fiat has not changed. “Sell at the all time high” is exactly the wrong advice.
Bitcoin has no top because fiat has no bottom.
Who says I'm attacking? We're not talking about opinions. When other people's views do not meet sound criteria, they don't matter. Discard them. Someone who is self aware, truly has the gift to see what this is, will not have to result to emotional or abstract concepts to shame others into making decisions that will not help them. It's like you shaming guys for "not putting in the work" and not seeing the big picture, which you commonly don't - and why you don't like me.
You all have been saying this for 15 years. We've told everyone for at least 5 years that this is your chance, if you understand it, have the conviction, don't worry about the volatility - worry about the math and history - which means BTC will go up and why it has outperformed EVERY asset for years even in every 4 year period.
This is a generational opportunity. You don't see it as the discovery of money because you have some other restrictive, emotional parasites that are sucking out reality from your mind and soul. The "risk" is not having conviction and selling because you are scared and don't really understand this reality.
Dude, I don't have to work anymore and we're STILL early.
MSTR has hacked the system, and that's because the fiat game is rigged, and you still don't get it.
If you want to call things names like Urkel and miss out on generational wealth, have fun staying poor. What can I say?
I am not advocating that anyone buy Bitcoin. I do advocate, to people that I care about, take 100 hours of their time and STUDY Bitcoin. If there is a 10% chance I could be correct, then it will be the best ROI on 100 hours you can make in a lifetime. Make up your own mind. It’s OK to buy a little bit of bitcoin before you understand it, but not OK to have the majority of your wealth (before understanding it.)
If someone asks what I plan to do (when do I plan to sell?) I give an honest answer, why, and how I came to that conclusion.
Listen to a 10 hour podcast and read 1 book, and there is a 10% chance it will change your life…but so many people say “no, thank you, I’m good.”
If someone asks what I plan to do (when do I plan to sell?) I give an honest answer, why, and how I came to that conclusion.
Listen to a 10 hour podcast and read 1 book, and there is a 10% chance it will change your life…but so many people say “no, thank you, I’m good.”
Who said I don't like you, because I have something to say that goes against the bubble you have built in your mind that means I don't like you? Why are you taking discussions and turning them into something personal and emotional? Stop bringing other discussions into this one, you did that in another thread trying to talk down to me because I said something you didn't want to hear and it was just as stupid then.
Also who is "we" and why do you feel the need to name @PurpleUrkel who isn't even in this discussion, you did that in the other thread also.
Can't have a discussion like this, no point....but that appears to be your goal in every conversation you just throw whatever shit out there hoping it will stick and distract.
"Have fun staying poor" and "miss out on generational wealth".........what a mess.
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I said that so you wouldn't think it's just me, some ego over here. And then it's used against me. That's ok, you're reading into this too much. My posts aren't as aggressive or as bad as you think.
But basically chance and I have been stalwart in trying to educate people that humans literally discovered money here, and that explains the entire scenario and of course, has predictive capacity: all of which has happened exactly according to what we have said. Do you think it's a coincidence that scorpion isn't posting right now? That's right, we're going over 100k (my prediction) in a few days to a week and probably over 150k by the end of the year. You guys won't allow yourselves to see what's happening, which I find beyond bizarre.
You're waiting, missing out, whatever on generational wealth because of some emotional reasons that disables your understanding of logic, real analysis, guys who have predicted everything that is happening literally right now. Think of it! Druckenmiller, Fink, Tudor Jones, institutions, pension funds, nation states, etc - and you think we're full of shit!?
I'm only wasting my time because if you just read/listen/see this for what it is, it's life changing. What does that mean?
I actually care.
I said that so you wouldn't think it's just me, some ego over here. And then it's used against me. That's ok, you're reading into this too much. My posts aren't as aggressive or as bad as you think.
But basically chance and I have been stalwart in trying to educate people that humans literally discovered money here, and that explains the entire scenario and of course, has predictive capacity: all of which has happened exactly according to what we have said. Do you think it's a coincidence that scorpion isn't posting right now? That's right, we're going over 100k (my prediction) in a few days to a week and probably over 150k by the end of the year. You guys won't allow yourselves to see what's happening, which I find beyond bizarre.
You're waiting, missing out, whatever on generational wealth because of some emotional reasons that disables your understanding of logic, real analysis, guys who have predicted everything that is happening literally right now. Think of it! Druckenmiller, Fink, Tudor Jones, institutions, pension funds, nation states, etc - and you think we're full of shit!?
I'm only wasting my time because if you just read/listen/see this for what it is, it's life changing. What does that mean?
I actually care.
I own bitcoin brother, I'm not missing your point you're missing mine. Your constant dramatics and emotions are too much and don't belong in a discussion about an investment unless you're just trying to pump it to idiots....which doesn't belong here.