Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

The illusion is created because actual wealth was stolen, from savers, and given in a concentrated form to the bank, which benefits the most (since it did not have to do anything except an accounting entry), and the borrower (who gets to spend the money first before it is devalued)

wealth is goods and services, not currency

the bank should be able to lend assets that it has (borrowed from people who earned them by producing valuable things)...not create counterfeit currency at the expense of literally everyone else
Please read my post in detail again. You are not understanding the big picture. Don't think of the bank as an individual or a normal company, think of them more like a utility. Like an electric company that provides electricity as a base input to the economy, the bank serves to provide money/liquidity. You say the bank "didn't have to do anything", but you totally ignored my point about the important role banks play by screening for credit risks, thereby helping to ensure that only productive loans (meaning loans likely to create economic value and thus be repaid) are issued. This is not "nothing"; it is an extremely important role in the economy.

You are correct that wealth is goods and services, not currency (not Bitcoin, either). And fiat functions extremely well at promoting the creation of goods and services via the mechanism I outlined above.

There is nothing unfair about a bank creating money at the time it is lended, because the money is subsequently destroyed upon being repaid. In essence, the money never actually existed, it was a fiction that merely served to facilitate the actual economic activity that creates wealth. The money was not real and vanishes, but the economic activity that it enabled is very real and endures.

In actuality, there is no such thing as an objective, universal "money" that exists independently of the economy and retains value in and of itself. Such things do exist, but we call them commodities, not money. Your major hangup is that you continually confuse the role of a commodity (like gold, or Bitcoin, in your view) with a currency. Commodities like gold and Bitcoin can function only very roughly as money in comparison to fiat, because they inherently lack the flexibility of being created and destroyed via the lending process. This is why no modern economy can function on a gold standard, and why Bitcoin is wholly unsuitable for use as a currency.
 
wealth is goods and services, not currency
Correct, and bitcoin is a currency. You may not view it that way, but 99% of normies who own bitcoin do. When they count their bitcoin, they count it in US dollars.

You will no doubt say "bitcoin is not a currency, it's a store of value money thing-a-ma-jig!!!", but that does not affect the fact that bitcoin, no matter what you call it, is at 70K US dollars and falling. It has not "stored" anything and as a currency has lost 40% of it's value since last October.
 
There is a Byzantine process of currency creation (I should stop calling fiat currency money) in order to confuse you.
Sometimes currency is allowed to be removed, but that is always very temporary.
Look around you. Unless you are using bitcoin, life is not getting cheaper, in fact, the opposite.

Nothing I can do about fiat. It’s going away, eventually. You can choose to go down with the ship, or the lifeboat.

Yes currency supply can be reduced over brief periods, but that is as intellectually honest as @PurpleUrkel claiming bitcoin is terrible, because you could sell it for more slave tokens 6 months ago. Yes you can cherry pick 2 data points to justify what you hope is true, but that is textbook confirmation bias, not an intellectual argument.

A select few people can create new money without creating value. The rest of us must create value to survive. That’s slavery.

100% reserve banking still has lending. Lending can exist on a bitcoin standard, at very low interest rates or as equity stakes instead of interest.
 

Attachments

  • primal_20260129_145700.jpg
    primal_20260129_145700.jpg
    463.2 KB · Views: 3
Last edited:
There is a Byzantine process of currency creation (I should stop calling fiat currency money) in order to confuse you.
The process of credit money creation is not intentionally byzantine to confuse people, any more than the process of electricity generation and delivery is intentionally made difficult for the average person to understand. Both simply are what they are. The average person is not going to understand the intricacies of the Bitcoin network, either. That isn't a knock against Bitcoin. Complex systems do not need to be easily understood to be valuable, they simply need to function as designed.
Sometimes currency is allowed to be removed, but that is always very temporary.
Sometimes? No, credit money is entirely predicated on coming into existence at the time the debt is issued, and then being extinguished when the debt it paid off. You cannot say that "sometimes" this happens, when it literally happens every time by design. The fiat money supply expands and contracts based on the needs of the economy through the issuance of credit. The only "permanent" new money created is via the interest payments on the debt (which are NOT created at the point of the loan), and which (when managed responsibly on a systemic level) create a slow and steady inflationary pressure on the currency.
Look around you. Unless you are using bitcoin, life is not getting cheaper, in fact, the opposite.
Anyone who owns real assets like stocks, gold and real estate (or tools and classic jeans, shoutout @PurpleUrkel ) has done fine. This is because real assets "float" on the sea of fiat currency and rise steadily over time with the money supply.
Nothing I can do about fiat. It’s going away, eventually. You can choose to go down with the ship, or the lifeboat.
Sure, fiat currencies come and go. That's why I'm not telling anyone to own fiat currencies. I'm telling people to own real assets. Fiat currencies are simply for transacting.
A select few people can create new money without creating value. The rest of us must create value to survive. That’s slavery.
You're completely stuck on the fact that banks "create money", as if they are simply running a printing press and stuffing their own pockets with dollars. I again must point out that banks create money by issuing debt, which must be repaid by the lender. The only way the lender can repay is by engaging in some sort of productive economic activity. In this manner, and in aggregate across the whole of society, the economy is able to grow very quickly by the use of bank-issued credit money. This is not a hypothetical. We know how this works. The money is created by the loan and destroyed by its repayment. What remains is the productive output of the debtor. This is not slavery, it's economic growth.
100% reserve banking still has lending. Lending can exist on a bitcoin standard, at very low interest rates or as equity stakes instead of interest.
Congratulations, you have discovered Islamic banking. Try to imagine the economies of the Middle East without their oil revenues, and you begin to get an idea of how effective Islamic banking is for encouraging economic development.
 
A feature and not a bug. Such flexibility is what makes fiat currency an extremely powerful invention. Since money is itself nothing but a social fiction to facilitate commerce, and has no actual value in and of itself, the ability to create money on demand - and to thereby stem the sort of panics that inevitably emerge when people suddenly start believing that money is scarce and must be hoarded - is a very useful property.
NO no no no no

still doesn't understand panics/crashes happen because of intervention
And yet the vast, overwhelming majority of credit money in our financial system is created by private banks issuing loans, not a state-owned central bank.
All the member banks own shares in the "Fed"
wealth is goods and services, not currency
Yes. You would have thought he would know that by now.
There is nothing unfair about a bank creating money at the time it is lended, because the money is subsequently destroyed upon being repaid.
You still don't understand the Cantillon Effect after hundreds of pages?
It has not "stored" anything and as a currency has lost 40% of it's value since last October.
You still don't understand math?

USD has lost 99% of its purchasing power over the last 100 years. It's funny you don't bring that up. It is going one way, and we know which way, NEVER going up. BTC is going one way, and we know which way, even though volatility is part of its characteristics, currently. Oh yeah, it's going the opposite way of the USD. Deny this and show us again how crazy you are.
 
Congratulations, you have discovered Islamic banking. Try to imagine the economies of the Middle East without their oil revenues, and you begin to get an idea of how effective Islamic banking is for encouraging economic development.
Not allowed in the US, as full reserve banking would outcompete (and cause the collapse of) fractional reserve banks.

One might expect that those in charge of banking policy in the United States would celebrate the concept of a “narrow bank.” A narrow bank takes deposits and invests only in interest-paying reserves at the Fed. A narrow bank cannot fail unless the US Treasury or Federal Reserve fails. A narrow bank cannot lose money on its assets. It cannot suffer a run. If people want their money back, they can all have it, instantly. A narrow bank needs essentially no asset risk regulation, stress tests, or anything else.


Custodia Bank is an example of a bank that accepts deposits and is willing to back up those demand deposits more than one-for-one with reserves. This means that if a run on the bank were ever to occur, Custodia would be able to satisfy all the customer requests. You’d think this would please the Fed, but when the bank applied to become a member of the Federal Reserve System, its application was rejected.


Slaves don't deserve a safe haven. Consume stuff, and stay dependent on government.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top