Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

For another token to dislodge Bitcoin it would have to be not just technically superior but an order of magnitude superior. Like 10x superior to Bitcoin. Even if you can make the argument that Monero or some other token is technically superior to Bitcoin (I am not saying that is the case by the way) none of them (including Monero) is 10 times better than Bitcoin, at best they are merely incrementally better.
I've commented on this also above, but there is another level even: BTC is a savings technology, which makes it better money. XMR can be a better payment channel, for obvious reasons, but it won't be a savings technology, and thus the XMR-BTC will keep going to zero. What's more? The privacy part of XMR has a side that will guarantee this: anonymity means in-auditability, or at least uncertainty regarding what is really going on. That is NOT a problem for BTC, where of course that trade off is pseudonymous transactions. The auditable part of it is a requirement though, since that is a clear improvement on gold - yet another one.
 
Also, most people are retarded twats who don't contextually understand the correct value of many things in this world and where they should actually focus their time on in case we're forgetting about the last few years of meme stocks and mRNA vaccines.
The thing you miss about this as well is that this aspect of the world isn't changing, regardless of having BTC or not having it, as before. Like every other disrupter over the years, it ultimately won't matter, because the smart people are what move the money and the world, and the rest follow. Or, we get a lower number of quality people such that the meme and mRNA stuff means less, while debasement of people becomes harder through sounder money. Most things in human life are cascades like this, relatively extremes of all or nothings. Women work like that too, as I've pointed out: you get younger, hotter women who have less mileage and maintain femininity in places where women are good, and mostly fat, loud, obnoxious and old women in the places where they are bad. Notice the imbalance.
 
Fed just announced a .5% rate cut. That’s pretty huge. It will continue to drop rates later this year and next year


Basically we will see more borrowing/money printer go brrrr. This will force the price of btc and crypto higher
 
Fed just announced a .5% rate cut. That’s pretty huge. It will continue to drop rates later this year and next year


Basically we will see more borrowing/money printer go brrrr. This will force the price of btc and crypto higher
I recommend following James Lavish, talks or on twitter, as he will frankly state the degree to which the Fed debt goes up monthly or quarterly. It's amazing how fast it is accumulating right now.

As for the dot plot, we're going to 3% next year, maybe 2.5%, and I foresee this year cutting at least 25 bps more, maybe even twice to get down to 4% FFR.
 
Quick question - how does one theoretically cash out (very) large sums of crypto? Say if someone had a few million USD / GBP / EUR after selling their crypto into fiat... would it just be a case of taking out the maximum amount an exchange allows each day. Or would it be an OTC service? It would be a nice problem to have, but it's something I've always wondered about.
 
Quick question - how does one theoretically cash out (very) large sums of crypto? Say if someone had a few million USD / GBP / EUR after selling their crypto into fiat... would it just be a case of taking out the maximum amount an exchange allows each day. Or would it be an OTC service? It would be a nice problem to have, but it's something I've always wondered about.
I think it's exchange limits but I am not totally sure.
 
Quick question - how does one theoretically cash out (very) large sums of crypto? Say if someone had a few million USD / GBP / EUR after selling their crypto into fiat... would it just be a case of taking out the maximum amount an exchange allows each day. Or would it be an OTC service? It would be a nice problem to have, but it's something I've always wondered about.
Once it settles, they can wire any amount on River and maybe Swann (ACH is only $100k per day for me on River)

Keeping in mind anything over $250k is not FDIC "insured" (LOL), and it's fully backed by 0% bank reserves.

In the USA I wouldn't sell into cash, just get a loan and there's no tax hit. Unchained Capital, etc
 
I was hoping for one more good dip to load up and buy a few more of the alt coins I want to dca on, but it looks like the news from the interest rate cut could just lead on to the bull run. Best guess is that things start to really go crazy in the next week or two. If you’re on the fence on buying alpha, Tao, kas or some of the other coins, it is still a decent time to buy

No idea how long it will last. I’ve seen some chart readers say we will be done in January /February and back into a bear market early 2025. Other guys are saying more like end of 2025.

Ultimately I think both will be true. Most of the coins will peak early 2025, but a few of the late arrivals, some may not have hit the market yet, will have a run later in 2025
 
For the FED to give such cut, it means they're concerned about the economy (inflation still above target) or it's because it's presidential election.

Like TeeDub, I'm also concerned about where to cash out for bigger amounts. Unchained Capital is garbage. 16.42% APR for a loan. $150k minimum.
 
For the FED to give such cut, it means they're concerned about the economy (inflation still above target) or it's because it's presidential election.
It's employment. They are trying to run the inflation gamut, because they knew that raising rates would cause greater unemployment, but only that (in general) brings down prices due to less demand. The problem is that they don't tell people it's a purposeful hurting of the economy so that inflation doesn't continue as hot. Even worse, inflation ain't going nowhere due to the required treasury issuance and printing to keep up the welfare state and finance the Fed deficits and debt. Get ready for stagflation and at best, some productivity due to technology that will be overshadowed by Main St getting rekt. The top 10% will continue to get wealthier and the new elite will be those in the upper 5%.
 
Fed just announced a .5% rate cut. That’s pretty huge. It will continue to drop rates later this year and next year


Basically we will see more borrowing/money printer go brrrr. This will force the price of btc and crypto higher
I've noticed this as well, that Bitcoin and Crypto valuations in general follow global liquidity. I.E. lower interest rates = high bitcoin prices. That definitely isn't a profound revelation on my part.

But I think there is something going on physiologically here. Anybody on this forum would agree that in general the Western work ethic is dying, and people these days have been programed to want to get rich quick with as little actual work as possible. Look at all the YouTubers and instagram influencers and only fans stars. It is all rooted in the same general work ethic decline in the West.

Now translate this understanding into crypto markets. The majority of people have no understanding of what real money is and isn't (the "true believers arguments for gold / bitcoin) and are instead looking to profit quickly. When money is cheap, people have more disposable income. They try to invest that in something that will get them rich quick. Therefore, they start buying bitcoin, which drives up the price.

I think this is why crypto prices follow global liquidity levels. It's driven by the phycology behind the normie "get-rich-quick" investors who have been handed printed dollars. (BTW, this is also true in the housing market. Thats the CORE reason housing prices skyrocketed over the past 5 years...)

Given that this is my understanding of the current Bitcoin situation, I'm going to play the game, but I wouldn't count on crypto holding "value" without QE and trillions of printed monopoly dollars. I'm not quite sure that a digital token is worth as much as a brand new Toyota Tacoma (65K, right...?).
 
For the FED to give such cut, it means they're concerned about the economy (inflation still above target) or it's because it's presidential election.

Like TeeDub, I'm also concerned about where to cash out for bigger amounts. Unchained Capital is garbage. 16.42% APR for a loan. $150k minimum.
That is the market rate for now. Because few institutions understand bitcoin. What will the interest rate be on a fully collateralized loan that:
1) Is more liquid than equities and real estate. (days to settle for equities, and possibly months for real estate)
2) Trades 24/7/365
3) Has essentially ZERO risk for the lender, since the collateral can be immediately liquidated in the event of a margin call.

Once institutions start to grasp just how low the risk on such a loan is, there will be much competition to finance bitcoin loans, driving the interest rates lower than other types of collateralized loans - well into the single digits.

I've noticed this as well, that Bitcoin and Crypto valuations in general follow global liquidity. I.E. lower interest rates = high bitcoin prices. That definitely isn't a profound revelation on my part.

But I think there is something going on physiologically here. Anybody on this forum would agree that in general the Western work ethic is dying, and people these days have been programed to want to get rich quick with as little actual work as possible. Look at all the YouTubers and instagram influencers and only fans stars. It is all rooted in the same general work ethic decline in the West.
This is a symptom of inflation. In countries with very high inflation (Turkey, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela), grifting and scamming are basically a way of life. "Time preference" goes way up - instant gratification, get rich quick, spend today, because the future is highly uncertain. As inflation increases in the West, expect more people behaving this way...it is a subconcious reaction to decreasing value of money.
Now translate this understanding into crypto markets. The majority of people have no understanding of what real money is and isn't (the "true believers arguments for gold / bitcoin) and are instead looking to profit quickly. When money is cheap, people have more disposable income. They try to invest that in something that will get them rich quick. Therefore, they start buying bitcoin, which drives up the price.
Agreed. There are HODLRs that have been here for a cycle, and new entrants that will be attracted to "number go up." Lets say there are 10 million people world wide, that have a significant portion of their wealth in bitcoin. The bull run attracts 100 million people for "number go up". When we get to the next bear market, 80% of the new entrants sell everything, leaving 20 million new "HODLRs". The bitcoin price crashes from $250k to $50k in March 2026. The new "base number" of HODLRs, people committed, is now 3x what it was. Eventually, after the crash, the base level of bitcoin creeps back up to $100k.
I think this is why crypto prices follow global liquidity levels. It's driven by the phycology behind the normie "get-rich-quick" investors who have been handed printed dollars. (BTW, this is also true in the housing market. Thats the CORE reason housing prices skyrocketed over the past 5 years...)

Given that this is my understanding of the current Bitcoin situation, I'm going to play the game, but I wouldn't count on crypto holding "value" without QE and trillions of printed monopoly dollars. I'm not quite sure that a digital token is worth as much as a brand new Toyota Tacoma (65K, right...?).
Expect a crash, and be prepared for an 80% drop from the top. 80% crash from 250k is 50k.

Governments have to print endless monopoly money. The global debt, owed to someone, is $310 Trillion. The total "real" money (M1 money supply) is $18 Trillion. That means: there is 17 times more money owed, than money that exists today. So if all people,, businesses, and all governments immediately stopped borrowing, and never borrowed another cent:

The worlds money must increase in supply 17x, or double in supply 4 consecutive times, to service the debt. But guess what, if inflation is roaring with all that money printing, smart people, businesses, and governments aren't going to stop borrowing, they will borrow as much as they can. That is why Saylor is borrowing as much as he can in a weaker currency (USD), and buying a stronger currency (BTC). His loans will be paid off with money that is worth a fraction of what it was when he borrowed it.

TLDR: money printer go brrrr until fiat collapses.
 
That is the market rate for now. Because few institutions understand bitcoin. What will the interest rate be on a fully collateralized loan that:
1) Is more liquid than equities and real estate. (days to settle for equities, and possibly months for real estate)
2) Trades 24/7/365
3) Has essentially ZERO risk for the lender, since the collateral can be immediately liquidated in the event of a margin call.

Once institutions start to grasp just how low the risk on such a loan is, there will be much competition to finance bitcoin loans, driving the interest rates lower than other types of collateralized loans - well into the single digits.


This is a symptom of inflation. In countries with very high inflation (Turkey, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela), grifting and scamming are basically a way of life. "Time preference" goes way up - instant gratification, get rich quick, spend today, because the future is highly uncertain. As inflation increases in the West, expect more people behaving this way...it is a subconcious reaction to decreasing value of money.

Agreed. There are HODLRs that have been here for a cycle, and new entrants that will be attracted to "number go up." Lets say there are 10 million people world wide, that have a significant portion of their wealth in bitcoin. The bull run attracts 100 million people for "number go up". When we get to the next bear market, 80% of the new entrants sell everything, leaving 20 million new "HODLRs". The bitcoin price crashes from $250k to $50k in March 2026. The new "base number" of HODLRs, people committed, is now 3x what it was. Eventually, after the crash, the base level of bitcoin creeps back up to $100k.

Expect a crash, and be prepared for an 80% drop from the top. 80% crash from 250k is 50k.

Governments have to print endless monopoly money. The global debt, owed to someone, is $310 Trillion. The total "real" money (M1 money supply) is $18 Trillion. That means: there is 17 times more money owed, than money that exists today. So if all people,, businesses, and all governments immediately stopped borrowing, and never borrowed another cent:

The worlds money must increase in supply 17x, or double in supply 4 consecutive times, to service the debt. But guess what, if inflation is roaring with all that money printing, smart people, businesses, and governments aren't going to stop borrowing, they will borrow as much as they can. That is why Saylor is borrowing as much as he can in a weaker currency (USD), and buying a stronger currency (BTC). His loans will be paid off with money that is worth a fraction of what it was when he borrowed it.

TLDR: money printer go brrrr until fiat collapses.

This is a symptom of inflation. In countries with very high inflation (Turkey, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela), grifting and scamming are basically a way of life. "Time preference" goes way up - instant gratification, get rich quick, spend today, because the future is highly uncertain. As inflation increases in the West, expect more people behaving this way...it is a subconcious reaction to decreasing value of money.
Haven't heard this before, but it is profound and true. Ron Paul (whatever he may be, his arguments for sound fiscal policy backed by gold make a lot of sense) said that fiat currency actually leads to degraded morals within society. Which then leads to the demand for even more printed money.

Probably for the reasons you have astutely pointed out. Pray for God-fearing leaders that understand these dynamics for what they are and do something to change this perverse incentive system!
 
Why would a true BTC believer ever "cash out"? I can understand cashing out to make an emergency payment to someone who doesn't accept BTC. But other than that, why sell BTC (a far superior form of money as you all say) for a government fiat currency.
 
Why would a true BTC believer ever "cash out"? I can understand cashing out to make an emergency payment to someone who doesn't accept BTC. But other than that, why sell BTC (a far superior form of money as you all say) for a government fiat currency.

Why would a true BTC believer ever "cash out"? I can understand cashing out to make an emergency payment to someone who doesn't accept BTC. But other than that, why sell BTC (a far superior form of money as you all say) for a government fiat currency.
Because other people aren't true believers. Thats the cold hard truth man. Any form of money only works if multiple people value it. You might believe in Bitcoin, but as long as that normie Harris voter down the street doesn't value it, it doesn't matter one iota.

We have to live within the confines of the system God has placed us in.
 
Haven't heard this before, but it is profound and true. Ron Paul (whatever he may be, his arguments for sound fiscal policy backed by gold make a lot of sense) said that fiat currency actually leads to degraded morals within society. Which then leads to the demand for even more printed money.
Yes, it turns out that morality is by far the most contingent on money. The reason this is important is because this affects your society and everyday life, given that only a very small percentage of people actually both believe in God and follow Him, at any given time in history. I have no problem with stating this reality since at this point I just don't expect that much from people. I don't find them to have that much imagination, curiosity, or agency (generall speaking). Most I see, and of course no one is sinless but the God-man, Jesus Christ, are much closer to the chickens that bounce around daily, not thinking about the future. I don't think this makes any of us who think about things any better, I just find it an explanation of the behavior seen in most societies, which is closer to aggregate thinking or madness of the crowds than any measured assessment themselves, God, the purpose of their lives and the world, etc.
Why would a true BTC believer ever "cash out"?
I think Judoka is actually asking the deflationary "gotcha" question put forth by Keynesians, not that it's actually a gotcha. No true believer would cash out the entirety of any pristine asset, but to say that he wouldn't buy things to enhance his life is the biggest mistake the fiat/debt/usury system makes in trying to convince you that deflationary money is bad. It isn't. It makes you consider whether you should consume at all, which is the opposite of a materialist and consumerist culture, and is a good thing. If you doubt that, just look around.
 
Why would a true BTC believer ever "cash out"? I can understand cashing out to make an emergency payment to someone who doesn't accept BTC. But other than that, why sell BTC (a far superior form of money as you all say) for a government fiat currency.

I don't think I was clear enough in my earlier post. I can understand BTC believers selling for USD in order to buy food, clothing, and other personal expenses. I can't understand BTC believers who "cash out" and sell BTC for large amounts of USD ($100K, $1M+) with no immediate plans to spend the USD. Those people would be frauds.
 
I don't think I was clear enough in my earlier post. I can understand BTC believers selling for USD in order to buy food, clothing, and other personal expenses. I can't understand BTC believers who "cash out" and sell BTC for large amounts of USD ($100K, $1M+) with no immediate plans to spend the USD. Those people would be frauds.
That's correct.

The best way to look at BTC currently is a souped up version of Real Estate that is also global and liquid. It's not confiscatable unless extreme effort is put into tracking someone down which is the case for everything in the world and always be. The point there is that the entire realm or network of it is impossible to extinguish.

As a result, like Michael Saylor says, the wise will just keep that asset and borrow off of it. It does ultimately need to move to realize the system and network (transactions must take place for the network to technically "exist"), but in that sense it's also a great motivator of human effort and achievement, and also stops the hoarding of something forever, in a sense.
 
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