Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

[chance vought]

Just posing a thought.
What of the tax implications when one goes to spend or convert btc in the future. Currently EVERYTHING is taxed. If you have capital gains from investing the government will want their piece. Nothing is hidden.
I think many crypto investors forget this.

It depends on how you spend your Bitcoin, If you shake your ranchers hand as he gives you a cooler full of meat and you send a few million satoshis to his wallet, are either of you reporting the transaction? If the answer is yes, then find another rancher to buy from.

I don’t think Argentines that exchange USD for ARS at blue dollar rates are reporting the exchange to the government.

Likewise, when the USD starts falling more quickly, and exchanges are heavily KYC or limited in amounts, do you think your friends who are desperate to trade their USD for BTC from you, are going to report it to the government? This is how I plan to get dollars for purchases where BTC would be taxed.

When more people would rather collect the sound money, exchanges will be unnecessary and anachronistic, if they aren’t shut down already as fiat enters its death throes.

 

[Myrzik3]

I don’t think that’s how a public ledger system works.

 

[chance vought]

I don’t think that’s how a public ledger system works.

 

[JayR]

T. Winklevoss donated $1M worth of BTC to Trump and wrote a pretty strong post about why:

 

[scorpion]

T. Winklevoss donated $1M worth of BTC to Trump and wrote a pretty strong post about why:

Who's gonna tell him that Trump was just pandering to cryptobros with his Bitcoin statement, the same way he does every time he gives a speech to a crowd with a pet issue?

 

[Blade Runner]

If AI continues its current trajectory, Bitcoin will inevitably become one of its many casualties. First of all, because crypto/blockchain will no longer be seen as the "cool new thing" to invest in, and secondly because all of the available mining hardware/data centers will be taken over by AI companies (and if AI makes truly great strides you can expect to see crypto mining literally banned by governments to increase data center availability for AI use).

You don't understand BTC as money or the network, but we've debated and shown that already. Your last sentence is amazing here in that the exact opposite literally happened last week with Trump cheering on mining and BTC adoption, and then Biden following suit. Are you just too proud to be realistic about very much of anything? It's OK to say you don't know X or that you were wrong about Y.

It's an enormous distinction when compared to AI, which doesn't need to be sold to anyone.

It doesn't need to be sold? I laughed out loud on this one.

Its power and appeal are clear as day.

You make these kinds of statements frequently, and I find them weird, because in threads where we discuss things, you say this after I've asked for specifics - which shows me you can't answer or don't know.

 

[Blade Runner]

Who's gonna tell him that Trump was just pandering to cryptobros with his Bitcoin statement, the same way he does every time he gives a speech to a crowd with a pet issue?

What's your prediction regarding BTC in the next year? The next 4 years?

 

[scorpion]

You don't understand BTC as money or the network, but we've debated and shown that already. Your last sentence is amazing here in that the exact opposite literally happened last week with Trump cheering on mining and BTC adoption, and then Biden following suit. Are you just too proud to be realistic about very much of anything? It's OK to say you don't know X or that you were wrong about Y.

Trump's endorsement of Bitcoin is transparently nothing but a cynical pander for votes. If you think that I don't understand Bitcoin, realize that Trump understands it about 1/10th as well as me, and certainly doesn't care about it whatsoever or intend to make it any sort of priority should he assume office again. Believing otherwise given Trump's track record with campaign promises is the height of naiveté.

It doesn't need to be sold? I laughed out loud on this one.

Current AI applications like writing web copy, generating images and writing/debugging code do not need to be sold, no. The tools are obviously highly useful to people engaged in those activities. I don't need to tell them that AI will make them more productive or have to run a slick ad campaign to sell them on it. The functionality of AI is incredibly obvious just by looking at it.

You make these kinds of statements frequently, and I find them weird, because in threads where we discuss things, you say this after I've asked for specifics - which shows me you can't answer or don't know.

See above.

What's your prediction regarding BTC in the next year? The next 4 years?

Down and way down.

 

[Blade Runner]

If you think that I don't understand Bitcoin, realize that Trump understands it about 1/10th as well as me, and certainly doesn't care about it whatsoever or intend to make it any sort of priority should he assume office again.

None of that matters. What matters is BTC, the network, and trends. What's more, his advisors do know, and he listened to them, both are shrewd.

like writing web copy, generating images and writing/debugging code

Mostly this is for entertainment and also modern advertisement monetization, thus big picture isn't all that important. The code thing can be, but again it's mostly for information or at best personal assistant stuff. Productivity changes with what is currently possible are more about convenience than actually producing "real" things which you seem preoccupied about, another irony.

Down and way down.

Sorta like Zeihan's prediction on BTC?

 

[Myrzik3]

It depends on how you spend your Bitcoin, If you shake your ranchers hand as he gives you a cooler full of meat and you send a few million satoshis to his wallet, are either of you reporting the transaction? If the answer is yes, then find another rancher to buy from.

I don’t think Argentines that exchange USD for ARS at blue dollar rates are reporting the exchange to the government.

Likewise, when the USD starts falling more quickly, and exchanges are heavily KYC or limited in amounts, do you think your friends who are desperate to trade their USD for BTC from you, are going to report it to the government? This is how I plan to get dollars for purchases where BTC would be taxed.

When more people would rather collect the sound money, exchanges will be unnecessary and anachronistic, if they aren’t shut down already as fiat enters its death throes.

Do you think the government can’t see who is using btc? Or that they will only know if someone reports the transaction? That they won’t be able to tax?
Venmo will 1099-k transactions over $600. The irs doesn’t need Venmo’s report to use it in a tax evasion case.
The blockchain is a public ledger, is it not?

I’m not thinking of using btc to buy a box of meat, but buying a big ticket item like a house.
Maybe I’m missing something.
Educate me on how one could avoid paying cap gains tax on their crypto.

 

[JayR]

Do you think the government can’t see who is using btc? Or that they will only know if someone reports the transaction? That they won’t be able to tax?
Venmo will 1099-k transactions over $600. The irs doesn’t need Venmo’s report to use it in a tax evasion case.
The blockchain is a public ledger, is it not?

I’m not thinking of using btc to buy a box of meat, but buying a big ticket item like a house.
Maybe I’m missing something.
Educate me on how one could avoid paying cap gains tax on their crypto.

My understanding is that if you jumped through all the hoops necessary to acquire true non-KYC BTC and you never moved it to a centralized/KYC exchange, transactions publicly visible on the blockchain are very difficult to trace back to an individual.

Even if true, I'd never want to test it and be listening for an IRS knock on the door for the rest of my life. Better to enjoy those crazy BTC gains and just pay the taxes on them.

 

[scorpion]

This exposes the way you think about things, again. Are you going to come back and post about how things in your mind are different when BTC market cap goes up 10x? If not, it's not a genuine point or in good faith.

What sort of silly question is this? "Will your opinion be different if BTC does a 10x?" Of course it would be different. When the facts change, so does my opinion.

Oh, and the fact that you say "when" Bitcoin does a 10x and not "if" certainly exposes the way you think about things (delusional blind faith/wishful thinking in place of sober analysis).

 

[Myrzik3]

I agree, which is why it’s important to plan how to minimize the largest expense all of us face through legal tax strategies. Crypto or not.
To me, owning assets in legal, tax-deferred account seems like a good rabbit hole to explore. Roth and hsa seem like a great place to start (if in the states).

 

[Myrzik3]

The government doesn’t even need to prove the source of your cash to confiscate it under suspicion of fraud. God bless!

 

[Blade Runner]

What sort of silly question is this? "Will your opinion be different if BTC does a 10x?" Of course it would be different. When the facts change, so does my opinion.

So BTC "dying 500 times" hasn't changed your opinion? Your logic doesn't even worth according to your own words. It's at all time highs again, and will keep going, yet you act like it doesn't go only up and to the right. Yet you haven't changed your opinion. I'm not sure if you follow that, which is weird to me for someone who is intelligent, from what I see, at least on some topics.

Oh, and the fact that you say "when" Bitcoin does a 10x and not "if" certainly exposes the way you think about things (delusional blind faith/wishful thinking in place of sober analysis).

As above, there is no reason to believe it will go lower over the long term. Zoom out and you have to make up responses to counter anything I say, because there is no counter to math that's accurate and obvious to anyone who is unbiased. The network has only gotten bigger and stronger and is the world's most secure computer network, never been hacked. I don't need "faith" when all it does is go up and all the fiat people do is print more. The facts have changed, and you haven't adapted, which is why we have these back and forths. I have Usain Bolt again at the starting line, and we both know the history, except I now have a bigger, stronger, and faster Bolt and you just say "Oh, he'll lose." It's breathtakingly silly.

You don't even understand that if AI gets big the money of the internet it will use is clearly BTC. I don't know how someone can fail on every application of this, but you keep finding ways.

 

[scorpion]

So BTC "dying 500 times" hasn't changed your opinion? Your logic doesn't even worth according to your own words. It's at all time highs again, and will keep going, yet you act like it doesn't go only up and to the right. Yet you haven't changed your opinion. I'm not sure if you follow that, which is weird to me for someone who is intelligent, from what I see, at least on some topics.

It will keep going until it stops. A few years ago you guys were claiming 100k was imminent. It hit 70k recently then stalled out, even after the halvening which was supposed to initiate another big pump. You don't seem to understand that as the market cap increases, the amount of money being pumped into the system must also increase along with it. There simply aren't that many people left who are interested in buying Bitcoin to fuel many more big runs up. Where is this money supposed to be coming from?

As above, there is no reason to believe it will go lower over the long term.

Of course there is: because Bitcoin generates no intrinsic return, its value is entirely derived from selling to another buyer for more than you paid. It doesn't physically exist, it serves no purpose, other cryptos can perform the exact same function it does, the public ledger provides no privacy, etc... There are a ton of drawbacks to Bitcoin. Literally the ONLY thing Bitcoin has going for it is its brand name. In this regard, it is a sort of pseudo-religion, in that Bitcoin will continue to have value only as long as people believe it's valuable. It is nothing more than a shared mass delusion. This is the real reason you get so butthurt about me disagreeing with you about this - in a way it must feel like I'm blaspheming your god.

I don't need "faith" when all it does is go up and all the fiat people do is print more.

As I said above, literally all you have is faith, because Bitcoin's value is based on nothing more than the shared belief of those who hold it.

You don't even understand that if AI gets big the money of the internet it will use is clearly BTC. I don't know how someone can fail on every application of this, but you keep finding ways.

This is...just a bizarre claim. Bitcoin has absolutely NOTHING to do with AI. You're trying to create some false equivalency between AI, which is a true revolutionary technology with world-changing potential, and Bitcoin/crypto, which - fifteen years after its invention - remains nothing more than a distributed Ponzi/pyramid scheme, a solution in search of a problem, a techno pseudo-religion, an ever-evolving, cyclical pump and dump endlessly proselytizing for new converts (bagholders).

 

[Blade Runner]

There simply aren't that many people left who are interested in buying Bitcoin to fuel many more big runs up. Where is this money supposed to be coming from?

OK, at this point I'm just eliciting comments like this for the record. Let's try a different angle or go in a different direction: Is it impossible for the BTC network to continue growing? Dell takes BTC as payment and now he's interested in purchasing it for his personal and/or company balance sheet. Are you not aware of all the institutions that are going to be part of the network? It's just a matter of time.

This is the real reason you get so butthurt about me disagreeing with you about this - in a way it must feel like I'm blaspheming your god.

It's just disappointing, but that's what happens with humans, early adoption, and innovation/disruption: few see it, and as I've said, it has to be that way. Otherwise, my kind (however you want to define that lol) wouldn't get outsized gains. I'm just trying to help you, and it's amusing that some things about humanity don't change. We can return to this, but you can bet that I'll bring it up later, to see how what kind of reaction you have and if you can actually demonstrate maturity and humility, because you will be humbled. Please don't disappoint again and do what most people do. Thanks in advance.

 

[scorpion]

Is it impossible for the BTC network to continue growing?

You don't seem to appreciate the mathematical necessity of the sheer volume of money that needs to flow into Bitcoin to produce further multiplicative gains. You've had 15 years and you've got a $1.3T market cap. Everyone on the planet with two dimes to rub together knows what Bitcoin is at this point and has already formed an opinion on it. Most people have no interest in owning it. Who is going to plow trillions more dollars into Bitcoin now? Governments and corporations? Wait, I thought they were the bad guys? Or did you throw out that script after the ETF approval? The story and the rationale is always changing with you guys, but the call to action is always the same: Buy BTC and HODL! It's a cult mentality (a point to consider: no one who is in a cult realizes that they are actually in a cult. They genuinely think they've hit upon a special truth that everyone else is just too stupid or blinded to see. Sound familiar? It should).

It's just disappointing, but that's what happens with humans, early adoption, and innovation/disruption: few see it, and as I've said, it has to be that way. Otherwise, my kind (however you want to define that lol) wouldn't get outsized gains.

I hate to break this to you, but you are NOT an early adopter. You are, in fact, a bagholder who is WAY late to the Bitcoin party. If you'd been all-in on Bitcoin 10 or more years ago, you would qualify as an early adopter, but as far as I understand, your conversion only happened in the past few years. Far more outsized gains have been made in NVDA than BTC over the past year or two. But go ahead and post your Bitcoin gains to impress and humble us all.

 

[Blade Runner]

I hate to break this to you, but you are NOT an early adopter. You are, in fact, a bagholder who is WAY late to the Bitcoin party. If you'd been all-in on Bitcoin 10 or more years ago, you would qualify as an early adopter, but as far as I understand, your conversion only happened in the past few years. Far more outsized gains have been made in NVDA than BTC over the past year or two. But go ahead and post your Bitcoin gains to impress and humble us all.

You said everyone knows what BTC is in the first section. Really ... so we're at the middle to end of the adoption curve? Why is it then the best performing asset even since when this bagholder here got in? I don't think you've studied very much about the network or its performance, because you would know about its Sharpe ratio and its outperformance against every other asset class for over a decade and for most years within the last decade.

I'll check in within a few months, and then next year.

 

[scorpion]

You said everyone knows what BTC is in the first section. Really ... so we're at the middle to end of the adoption curve?

Given that we've had crypto ads during the Super Bowl, have stadium naming rights and all sorts of sponsorship deals from crypto companies and even have an official Bitcoin ETF, yes, it's safe to say that everyone knows what Bitcoin is at this point. You're delusional if you think there is a vast untapped market of potential eager buyers sitting on the sidelines. Most people regard Bitcoin as a speculative asset, a pure risk trade to throw money at if they're feeling an itch. Very few people - only the true believers like yourself, who are an extreme minority - actually think that Bitcoin has any real value, and there is very little you can ever do to convince them otherwise.

Why is it then the best performing asset even since when this bagholder here got in?

It's not the best performing asset: https://www.statmuse.com/money/ask/btc-vs-nvidia-over-past-5-years