Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

This could be the last cycle
Last cycle, probably not. First Mega cycle, we'll see. Maybe I'm just being hyper-bullish, but Krueger is bringing up really good points on ETFs normalizing Bitcoin amongst the general populace, and that general populace forcing Funds to acquire more and more Bitcoin to meet the growing demand for their ETFs. All the while bitcoiners just sit on their hands and force the price up.

The infinity/21m meme is going to become more and more relevant. There's a characteristic of totality that is fundamental to the Bitcoin asset.

Keep in mind, we are only at the beginning of Wall Street buying in. There's a lot more to follow after that.
 
What happens when the digital ID is put into play? Then the authorities will now be aware of all the crypto trades happening and who is holding what. At that point, they can just tax the hell out of everyone using a crypto coin other than their own government-issued crypto coins?
 
What happens when the digital ID is put into play? Then the authorities will now be aware of all the crypto trades happening and who is holding what. At that point, they can just tax the hell out of everyone using a crypto coin other than their own government-issued crypto
People stop registering business, reporting income, etc. People work for BTC and don't report it or pay taxes. Look at other corrupt kleptocracies like Argentina, Russia, etc. Very few people pay taxes if they can help it
 
The problem with the new ones is something which can't be glossed over = they have an original issuer or centralized "creators" whereas BTC doesn't and that's why it's a commodity to boot. New projects all lack this, and it's critical. There's a small chance that BTC is a psyop but it seems like that has been pretty much disproven through time for many reasons.

What do you mean by centralised creators? Is this a reference to Satoshi being an unknown entity who is not on the scene?

I don't see the overall picture of that being important. But I think you are referring to some sort of control, i.e. some sort of entity that could shut down or seriously harm the chain. This seems to be the position held by all developers, who have the ability to commit code changes and create official forks.

If there is a code change that people don't like, then the next layer of control is with those providing hardware, who can fork. Then coin holders who can sell one of the forks. A benefit of POW. Since with POS, the hardware element is greatly diminished.

Also what percentage of Ethereum's transacted volume is used for legitimate purposes such as the one noted above vs how much is used for speculation or to enable people to buy other speculative token''s on the Ethereum blockchain (speculation squared). If I had to guess I would say over 90% of Ethereum transactions are for speculation. Same as Solana, ETC.

It's probably more like 99%, especially on Solana. Here are the top dapps on Solama -


Exchanges and a few games.



Not sure what to think of the price direction. Quite a lot of people think it will go down/sideways into the halving and then start a new leg up.

If anyone is looking for a Qubic entry. First suggested entry was when the lower blue line was pierced. I think the next entry should be when the higher blue line is pierced.

Screenshot from 2024-03-07 02-34-15.jpg

Chart - https://safe.trade/exchange/QUBIC-USDT?type=basic

This coin has reached $1.1b on two exchanges that would otherwise have $2.5m volume / day, with no marketing. Marketing is about to begin over the next month or so, and once an issue is resolved it will go live on about ten larger exchanges.



Came across another interesting L1 on the quantum narrative. Given that some are saying all current chains could be ripped apart by Quantum computers in a few years. Not looked into it.

Cellframe is the first multilayer blockchain (Layer 0, 1 ,2) that is designed to be faster, more scalable and more decentralized than any other solutions out there. We have invented and implemented ground-breaking technological advances and supplemented them with the best practices. A few of them are:
— Whole ecosystem built from scratch using C language
— Better performance in CPU and memory utilization because of an architecture built around C language
— Multi-level flexible sharding
— Built-in payment system for dedicated services based on subscription model
— Quantum-resistant signatures, including simultaneous multisig support and flexibility to integrate new signatures on the go
— Fog-based services and true distributed apps (t-dApps) to replace existing cloud-based services and dApps
— Support for everything Web 3.0: Cellverse, NFT, CellChains, Game Fi, VPN, De-Fi and much more
— Our unique architecture has unraveled the blockchain trilemma with enterprise-grade scalability, decentralization and security
— Low transaction fees owing to conditional transactions and a lack of dependency on smart contracts

What makes Cellframe quantum-secure?
Our protocol’s quantum resistance is based on algorithms and mathematical calculations. The National Institute of Standards & Technology, USA (NIST (https://csrc.nist.gov/Projects/post-quantum-cryptography)) is working on establishing standards for Post Quantum Encryption (PQE).
Cellframe has already incorporated the most advanced algorithms from the ongoing Post Quantum Cryptography Contest run by NIST: CRYSTALS-Dilithium and Picnic. Cellframe Network supports the execution of multiple encryption algorithms simultaneously, thus allowing a layered framework of post-quantum security. The multi-protocol variable digital signature format allows further integration of any existing and upcoming PQE algorithms on the fly.


photo_2024-03-07_02-08-38.jpg
 
Here to murder the rent seekers.
In a way that is an ironic take. Rent seeking is based partly on owning scarce assets like real estate, etc. If Bitcoin is digital scarcity and the ultimate scarce asset is owning Bitcoin then is it not a form of rent seeking where everyone is vying to own a slice of the apex asset? Phil Anderson who writes about 18.6 land cycle theory and is an expert on the subject of economic rent in a video interview he was very bullish on Bitcoin and he said that Bitcoin is "pure rent". Instead of owning scarce real estate, etc the new elites will own Bitcoin. Also Yanis Varafoukis wrote a new book (I have not read it yet but saw an interview with him) called tehcno-feudalism about what he deems the "cloud lords". Platforms like Amazon are extracting economic rent from people and are the new rentier class of the digital era and his theory is that we are thus transitioning from a capitalistic society back into a feudalistic rent based society. Bitcoin whales will sit alongside the "cloud lords" at the top of the pyramid collecting all the economic rent of society.
 
Try and buy a coffee with Bitcoin on layer one. It will be a slow and expensive exercise. Again if you are using a layer 2 application it doesn't have the ironclad security and is not necessarily better than fiat or other cryptos.
It is slow and expensive, compared to FedWire (or FedNow)? Compared to what exactly?

Fiat as in physical cash, yes I will give you that, but keep in mind, fiat used to be an abstraction of the real asset, and now its an abstraction of….what exactly, government debt? That will be as useful as 100 Trillion dollar Zimbabwe notes soon enough.

Other cryptos…L2 Bitcoin is more secure than any other crypto, we don’t even need to mention L1, secured by the most powerful computer network on the planet. I would like to hear your argument as to why lightning network is not secure enough?

Most coffee shops accept credit cards, where they don’t get settled for days or weeks, and even then it’s not final because they could still get chargebacks. And even then it’s just some numbers on a screen and they are essentially the banks creditor now, not owners of the asset. Coffeshops seem fine with that risk because it is a low value transaction. There is little incentive for the customer to cheat.
 
A transaction usually takes something like 10 minutes on the Bitcoin blockchain if you are talking about layer one. A credit card transaction is almost instantly verified even if the settlement doesn't come until much later. Plus on layer one the Bitcoin fee will be very high if you are trying to buy a cup of coffee. I have seen varying estimates for what the transaction fee would be to do this on layer 1. The lowest figure I have seen is still well over $1 at the moment. Median Bitcoin transaction fee is currently around $6 USD.

As for saying Bitcoin on layer 2 is more secure than any other crypto that is a big claim. There are something like 10,000+ cryptos and I don't have the technical knowledge to properly dispute it but I would be surprised if it were true. I would like to hear Cynlo weigh in on this point.

And
 
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A transaction usually takes something like 10 minutes on the Bitcoin blockchain if you are talking about layer one. A credit card transaction is almost instantly verified even if the settlement doesn't come until much later.
You are equating credit with a bearer asset. They are not the same. That is only final with something like FedNow. Goldman Sachs doesn’t settle a balance to Credit Suisse with a Visa swipe. That takes many hours if not a full business day. It costs more than a Bitcoin transaction.

i agree, a coffee transaction does not require final settlement, but you can’t claim that Bitcoin over lightning is not secure enough in the same sentence.
As for saying Bitcoin on layer 2 is more secure than any other crypto that is a big claim. There are something like 10,000+ cryptos and I don't have the technical knowledge to properly dispute it but I would be surprised if it were true. I would like to hear Cynlo weigh in on this point.
Which other cryptos have tens of thousands of network participants, spread worldwide? I doubt anyone here runs an Etherium node, and that is the second largest! Even then it’s PoS so it’s not like there is security anymore.
 
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You are equating credit with a bearer asset. They are not the same. That is only final with something like FedNow. Goldman Sachs doesn’t settle a balance to Credit Suisse with a Visa swipe. That takes many hours if not a full business day. It costs more than a Bitcoin transaction.

Which other cryptos have tens of thousands of network participants, spread worldwide? I doubt anyone here runs an Etherium node, and that is the second largest! Even then it’s PoS so it’s not like there is security anymore.
Yes I realize that credit and a bearer asset are not the same but in many consumers minds they are the same and they want their transaction to be quick and cheap regardless.
 
Yes I realize that credit and a bearer asset are not the same but in many consumers minds they are the same and they want their transaction to be quick and cheap regardless.
LN is quicker and cheaper. Settled instantly, with fees around 0.5%. For a $1 coffee on credit card, there is a base fee and a 3% transaction fee that could be 20% of the transaction total. So the merchant is only getting 80 cents on the dollar with Visa, and 99.5 cents on lightning.
 
Again on layer one a $6 current median transaction fee for Bitcoin is prohibitive for small transactions.
You could also use a wire transfer to the bank of the coffee shop, but most people don’t for that reason. The merchant is willing to accept the trade off of less security to reduce friction in the transaction.

Claiming that Lightning is not secure enough, but credit cards are, simply isn’t true. It is much easier for the credit card customer to cheat than the lightning network customer.

Bottom line, all other cryptos are solutions looking for a problem. Bitcoin won the only use case for a “blockchain”, which is money.
 
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Also while charge-backs are a negative from the merchants perspective from the consumers perspective its a positive that proves them with consumer protection which you won't get the same protection as a consumer with a bitcoin transaction.

At this point I would question the lightening networks ability to scale. Let's see what unfolds.

Do you really envision that in a another 5 years people will be buying their groceries and cups of coffee with Bitcoin (on the lightening network)? If that is what you believe can you describe why you think it will happen and how it will unfold?
 
Also the biggest advantage that fiat currently has over anything else is that fiat in its physical form is 100% private. Unless you spend Monero you bought using cash or something you cannot get that same level of end to end privacy in crypto.

Also physical cash is free and has no fee to use it (from the perspective of the consumer not the merchant)
 
Cash if used end to end has 100% privacy. For example if you have your own lawn mowing business and you have a customer that pays you in cash and you do not issue that customer a receipt. Then with the cash you received you decide to spend the cash to purchase something. Nobody knows you ever received the cash and nobody knows you spent it. It has zero paper trail. Can you say the same about Bitcoin?
 
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