Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

Australia Sucks, you seem to have been captured by an extremist libertarian ideology that doesn't allow for governments and large institutions to play any positive role in society whatsoever. This is the sort of binary thinking that sounds good in theory (especially to idealists such as yourself, Blade Runner and chance vought) but which never seems to work out in practice. Idealism and the utopian ideologies that emerge therefrom always fail to account for the moral and ethical shortcomings of human beings that inevitably throw wrenches into the workings of even the most carefully designed system.

The reality is that libertarianism is just as a flawed a societal model as communism on a practical level. It simply doesn't work at scale, and to the degree that it does work, hybrid systems simply work better and will always outcompete it, because they put practical considerations ahead of ideological ones. In other words, they are more concerned with what works best in practice rather than what sounds the most pleasing and elegant on paper. Until you recognize this fact you will continue to spout foolishness about how governments and financial institutions should have no role to play in the banking system, arguments which - despite your obvious intelligence - betray a youthful lack of wisdom and experience in the real world.
You are making a straw man argument. I am not an idealist.

Where did I state explicitly that the government or financial institutions should not play a role in the banking system? In fact quite the opposite. I made the point that companies (including financial institutions) could look to offer various services on the layer two of cryptos.

The problem I have with banks aside from their inefficient legacy technology and the regulatory capture that makes them have so much control over governments is fractional reserve banking as a concept is extremely evil. In any other type of business this would be considered embezzlement. It’s legalised crime.

If you store your tractors in a warehouse the warehouse cannot lend out your tractors to others yet claim it’s available for you to collect at any time. That would legally be considered embezzlement (unless you are a bank doing it with money).

Yet banks lend out peoples deposits and claim it’s available for them to withdraw at any time. Of course if people at scale withdraw their money from banks you will have the classic run on the bank and banks will freeze withdrawals. The basic business model of banks is fraudulent. Fractional reserve banking should be illegal.

You seem to have drunk the kool aid and think the over enlarged welfare warfare state is a benefit to you.

It’s okay to have government if it sticks to basic functions and is no more than 10% of GDP but we are long way from that in any first world major economy.
 
Anyone who got sucked into a Bitcoin bull market by FOMO probably lost money on their investment, or at best had to wait years for a recovery. Simply looking for entry and exit points on a chart with the benefit of hindsight is useless and highly misleading.
Every asset (housing, stocks, gold, etc) has cycles and bear markets so again you are making a non argument.
 
I am not an idealist.

The problem I have with banks aside from their inefficient legacy technology and the regulatory capture that makes them have so much control over governments is fractional reserve banking as a concept is extremely evil.
You deny being an idealist, then make a moral judgment that only a ideological purist would make!

Yet banks lend out peoples deposits and claim it’s available for them to withdraw at any time. Of course if people at scale withdraw their money from banks you will have the classic run on the bank and banks will freeze withdrawals. The basic business model of banks is fraudulent. Fractional reserve banking should be illegal.
The reality is that fractional reserve banking is like economic steroids: economies that utilize it outgrow and outcompete those that do not. Of course there are downsides, but overall the pros would seem to outweigh the cons.

The fact that you think fractional reserve banking is evil or somehow unfair is irrelevant. Some people think that the idea of mass incarceration is evil. Some people would say the same about the factory farming of animals. These are just your opinions, which are outweighed by the practical necessities of socioeconomic systems that support the lives of billions of people.
 
The reality is that fractional reserve banking is like economic steroids: economies that utilize it outgrow and outcompete those that do not.

Actually, this does not seem to be true. The Nazi party got rid of FRB, and their economy grew faster than everyone else, which was a major incentive for the rest of the Talmudic controlled world to wage war against them. They knew that unless they killed Germany, they would be left in the dust.

FRB definitely benefits the few at the expense of the many, but by all metaethical reasoning it is by far an inferior system to traditional banking. Most of human history went without FRB, and those were periods when birthrates were 8-12 children per family. FRB was only became widespread as governments became more centralized after the French Revolution, and governments became more adept at oppressing their population as technology advanced.

The reason FRB exists is because it allows power to be concentrated, not that it is a superior system. Power concentration is generally what wins wars, not what works best for mankind.

I agree that ideologies are dumb, but Fractional Reserve Banking is its own ideology which is quickly disproven by the vast majority of Christian history. Usury is evil and is a major impediment to progress.
 
The reason FRB exists is because it allows power to be concentrated, not that it is a superior system.
My point was not really to defend fractional reserve banking per se (it is a flawed system, as I readily admitted) but to emphasize the futility of adhering to any sort of utopian ideology, economic or political. The reality is that whatever "perfect" system you can dream up will eventually be abused and exploited by the individuals who achieve preeminent power in said system (as the people who rise to the top of any competitive hierarchy are disproportionately psychopathic). In others words, the problem is not really the design of a given system, the problem is human nature itself, and the evil within men's hearts that drives them lie, cheat, steal and kill in service of their greed and ambition.

A lot of guys in this thread want to blame the banking/financial/fiat system for the economic injustices in the world, and foolishly believe that adopting a "Bitcoin standard" would usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity. But of course, in reality, the exact same problems would emerge in due course - inequality, greed, concentration of power by the elite, etc... As Christ said, the poor will always be with us. Anyone promising a utopian economic dream - whether through communism, libertarianism, free banking or Bitcoin - is ignorant, delusional or outright subversive.
 
A lot of guys in this thread want to blame the banking/financial/fiat system for the economic injustices in the world, and foolishly believe that adopting a "Bitcoin standard" would usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity. But of course, in reality, the exact same problems would emerge in due course - inequality, greed, concentration of power by the elite, etc... As Christ said, the poor will always be with us. Anyone promising a utopian economic dream - whether through communism, libertarianism, free banking or Bitcoin - is ignorant, delusional or outright subversive.
Another straw man argument. Of course every system is open to a degree of abuse but some systems are more vulnerable than others. When the world was on a classical gold standard wars were less frequent and shorter, governments were smaller and deficits were smaller. A bitcoin standard system would not be perfect and there would be ways of abusing it but it would have less vulnerabilities than a fiat system. Nobody is talking about a utopia but if we can get some kind of incremental improvement on what we have now that is a win.

You are essentially taking a defeatist attitude by thinking the current system cannot be improved upon at all.
 
Australia Sucks, you seem to have been captured by an extremist libertarian ideology that doesn't allow for governments and large institutions to play any positive role in society whatsoever. This is the sort of binary thinking that sounds good in theory (especially to idealists such as yourself, Blade Runner and chance vought) but which never seems to work out in practice. Idealism and the utopian ideologies that emerge therefrom always fail to account for the moral and ethical shortcomings of human beings that inevitably throw wrenches into the workings of even the most carefully designed system.
You do this frequently. Latch on to a point that's not really related to what the topic of conversation is, and then link some other idea with it. Pointing out that banks are less than ideal, if not criminal, makes one an "extremist libertarian"? In what world?
The fact that you think fractional reserve banking is evil or somehow unfair is irrelevant.
No it's not. That's in fact the entire issue, because it has implications on what people do with, and how they relate to, money. Arguably the most important topic in life because it affects the average man's behavior so much.
The reality is that whatever "perfect" system you can dream up will eventually be abused and exploited by the individuals who achieve preeminent power in said system (as the people who rise to the top of any competitive hierarchy are disproportionately psychopathic).
We're just talking about money, not some overarching "system."

Also, if humans make derivative contracts and other such things on money, or other assets (like BTC) that doesn't have anything to do with BTC itself. Again, no one blames apple for drug pushing since a lot of drug dealers use i phones, etc. Even more obvious would be that we shouldn't ban cash because some people like to use cash for anonymous, and some criminal, endeavors, not that "crimes" are all bad since the law can consider pretty much anyone a criminal given context or volume/stupidity of law.
You are essentially taking a defeatist attitude by thinking the current system cannot be improved upon at all.
Yes. I find it bizarre that scorpion constantly touts fiat systems, which are inherently immoral. Say what you want about BTC, and we have a lot, but it is fundamentally honest and moral (as money) due to its design and trustless, permissionless features.
 
Any thoughts on XRP crypto? Do any of you guys own it? It's been at around $3 which is up substantially in recent weeks. Keeping my eye on it and might pull the trigger on some next week or so.
I admittedly don't understand any aspect of this except as a trade and/or connections to other people, such as "friends of the administration". No other coin is actually money, and all of them have ICOs with founders already pre-mining. Since BTC has won, all of the other coins are just distractions, or at best, businesses that could sell some technology to others for a fee. The problem with even that is that you can just copy all other projects on the base layer of payment (BTC). Since I don't play alts, ultimately I have no risk and no real opinion. I'd rather just leverage BTC at certain trading times, like now with MSTR.
 
Any thoughts on XRP crypto? Do any of you guys own it? It's been at around $3 which is up substantially in recent weeks. Keeping my eye on it and might pull the trigger on some next week or so.
I'm just going to give you my humble opinion, I was an XRP holder, I bought at 0.21 cents in 2020, and sold most of it in 2021 because of the fundamentals, the lawsuit, and the obnoxious XRP army community (worse than the bitcoin maxis), and it is pretty shady too, the way they dump on their holders and their dealings with central institutions. I prefer XLM which is the alternative for the same narrative of ''bridging banks and tradfi financial system with crypto'' and it has more upside potential.

XRP is already too risky, If we get a crazy last bull run, probably 5-6 usd max? IDk, we're kinda late to the party, if anything we'll have one last leg and one underwhelming ''altseason''. I've already taken 25% of all my positions off, and I'm already several Xs up in my investment, so whatever happens I'm not losing a single penny of my initial invesment. I'll be buying bitcoin again hopefully when we're in the next bear market below 50-30k bottom. If you want to take some risk for a 1-5x with minimal risk at this point, I'd rather go with a ETH heavy portfolio and some other Boomer coins that are on their lows. I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the current state of the market, but I don't think we're that near the peak, but heading there in a few months. Still, take everything I say with a grain of salt, if you decide to buy a bag of XRP I wish you the best and I'll respect the pump if it comes.
 
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