Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

Australia Sucks, you seem to have been captured by an extremist libertarian ideology that doesn't allow for governments and large institutions to play any positive role in society whatsoever. This is the sort of binary thinking that sounds good in theory (especially to idealists such as yourself, Blade Runner and chance vought) but which never seems to work out in practice. Idealism and the utopian ideologies that emerge therefrom always fail to account for the moral and ethical shortcomings of human beings that inevitably throw wrenches into the workings of even the most carefully designed system.

The reality is that libertarianism is just as a flawed a societal model as communism on a practical level. It simply doesn't work at scale, and to the degree that it does work, hybrid systems simply work better and will always outcompete it, because they put practical considerations ahead of ideological ones. In other words, they are more concerned with what works best in practice rather than what sounds the most pleasing and elegant on paper. Until you recognize this fact you will continue to spout foolishness about how governments and financial institutions should have no role to play in the banking system, arguments which - despite your obvious intelligence - betray a youthful lack of wisdom and experience in the real world.
You are making a straw man argument. I am not an idealist.

Where did I state explicitly that the government or financial institutions should not play a role in the banking system? In fact quite the opposite. I made the point that companies (including financial institutions) could look to offer various services on the layer two of cryptos.

The problem I have with banks aside from their inefficient legacy technology and the regulatory capture that makes them have so much control over governments is fractional reserve banking as a concept is extremely evil. In any other type of business this would be considered embezzlement. It’s legalised crime.

If you store your tractors in a warehouse the warehouse cannot lend out your tractors to others yet claim it’s available for you to collect at any time. That would legally be considered embezzlement (unless you are a bank doing it with money).

Yet banks lend out peoples deposits and claim it’s available for them to withdraw at any time. Of course if people at scale withdraw their money from banks you will have the classic run on the bank and banks will freeze withdrawals. The basic business model of banks is fraudulent. Fractional reserve banking should be illegal.

You seem to have drunk the kool aid and think the over enlarged welfare warfare state is a benefit to you.

It’s okay to have government if it sticks to basic functions and is no more than 10% of GDP but we are long way from that in any first world major economy.
 
Anyone who got sucked into a Bitcoin bull market by FOMO probably lost money on their investment, or at best had to wait years for a recovery. Simply looking for entry and exit points on a chart with the benefit of hindsight is useless and highly misleading.
Every asset (housing, stocks, gold, etc) has cycles and bear markets so again you are making a non argument.
 
I am not an idealist.

The problem I have with banks aside from their inefficient legacy technology and the regulatory capture that makes them have so much control over governments is fractional reserve banking as a concept is extremely evil.
You deny being an idealist, then make a moral judgment that only a ideological purist would make!

Yet banks lend out peoples deposits and claim it’s available for them to withdraw at any time. Of course if people at scale withdraw their money from banks you will have the classic run on the bank and banks will freeze withdrawals. The basic business model of banks is fraudulent. Fractional reserve banking should be illegal.
The reality is that fractional reserve banking is like economic steroids: economies that utilize it outgrow and outcompete those that do not. Of course there are downsides, but overall the pros would seem to outweigh the cons.

The fact that you think fractional reserve banking is evil or somehow unfair is irrelevant. Some people think that the idea of mass incarceration is evil. Some people would say the same about the factory farming of animals. These are just your opinions, which are outweighed by the practical necessities of socioeconomic systems that support the lives of billions of people.
 
The reality is that fractional reserve banking is like economic steroids: economies that utilize it outgrow and outcompete those that do not.

Actually, this does not seem to be true. The Nazi party got rid of FRB, and their economy grew faster than everyone else, which was a major incentive for the rest of the Talmudic controlled world to wage war against them. They knew that unless they killed Germany, they would be left in the dust.

FRB definitely benefits the few at the expense of the many, but by all metaethical reasoning it is by far an inferior system to traditional banking. Most of human history went without FRB, and those were periods when birthrates were 8-12 children per family. FRB was only became widespread as governments became more centralized after the French Revolution, and governments became more adept at oppressing their population as technology advanced.

The reason FRB exists is because it allows power to be concentrated, not that it is a superior system. Power concentration is generally what wins wars, not what works best for mankind.

I agree that ideologies are dumb, but Fractional Reserve Banking is its own ideology which is quickly disproven by the vast majority of Christian history. Usury is evil and is a major impediment to progress.
 
The reason FRB exists is because it allows power to be concentrated, not that it is a superior system.
My point was not really to defend fractional reserve banking per se (it is a flawed system, as I readily admitted) but to emphasize the futility of adhering to any sort of utopian ideology, economic or political. The reality is that whatever "perfect" system you can dream up will eventually be abused and exploited by the individuals who achieve preeminent power in said system (as the people who rise to the top of any competitive hierarchy are disproportionately psychopathic). In others words, the problem is not really the design of a given system, the problem is human nature itself, and the evil within men's hearts that drives them lie, cheat, steal and kill in service of their greed and ambition.

A lot of guys in this thread want to blame the banking/financial/fiat system for the economic injustices in the world, and foolishly believe that adopting a "Bitcoin standard" would usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity. But of course, in reality, the exact same problems would emerge in due course - inequality, greed, concentration of power by the elite, etc... As Christ said, the poor will always be with us. Anyone promising a utopian economic dream - whether through communism, libertarianism, free banking or Bitcoin - is ignorant, delusional or outright subversive.
 
A lot of guys in this thread want to blame the banking/financial/fiat system for the economic injustices in the world, and foolishly believe that adopting a "Bitcoin standard" would usher in a golden age of peace and prosperity. But of course, in reality, the exact same problems would emerge in due course - inequality, greed, concentration of power by the elite, etc... As Christ said, the poor will always be with us. Anyone promising a utopian economic dream - whether through communism, libertarianism, free banking or Bitcoin - is ignorant, delusional or outright subversive.
Another straw man argument. Of course every system is open to a degree of abuse but some systems are more vulnerable than others. When the world was on a classical gold standard wars were less frequent and shorter, governments were smaller and deficits were smaller. A bitcoin standard system would not be perfect and there would be ways of abusing it but it would have less vulnerabilities than a fiat system. Nobody is talking about a utopia but if we can get some kind of incremental improvement on what we have now that is a win.

You are essentially taking a defeatist attitude by thinking the current system cannot be improved upon at all.
 
Australia Sucks, you seem to have been captured by an extremist libertarian ideology that doesn't allow for governments and large institutions to play any positive role in society whatsoever. This is the sort of binary thinking that sounds good in theory (especially to idealists such as yourself, Blade Runner and chance vought) but which never seems to work out in practice. Idealism and the utopian ideologies that emerge therefrom always fail to account for the moral and ethical shortcomings of human beings that inevitably throw wrenches into the workings of even the most carefully designed system.
You do this frequently. Latch on to a point that's not really related to what the topic of conversation is, and then link some other idea with it. Pointing out that banks are less than ideal, if not criminal, makes one an "extremist libertarian"? In what world?
The fact that you think fractional reserve banking is evil or somehow unfair is irrelevant.
No it's not. That's in fact the entire issue, because it has implications on what people do with, and how they relate to, money. Arguably the most important topic in life because it affects the average man's behavior so much.
The reality is that whatever "perfect" system you can dream up will eventually be abused and exploited by the individuals who achieve preeminent power in said system (as the people who rise to the top of any competitive hierarchy are disproportionately psychopathic).
We're just talking about money, not some overarching "system."

Also, if humans make derivative contracts and other such things on money, or other assets (like BTC) that doesn't have anything to do with BTC itself. Again, no one blames apple for drug pushing since a lot of drug dealers use i phones, etc. Even more obvious would be that we shouldn't ban cash because some people like to use cash for anonymous, and some criminal, endeavors, not that "crimes" are all bad since the law can consider pretty much anyone a criminal given context or volume/stupidity of law.
You are essentially taking a defeatist attitude by thinking the current system cannot be improved upon at all.
Yes. I find it bizarre that scorpion constantly touts fiat systems, which are inherently immoral. Say what you want about BTC, and we have a lot, but it is fundamentally honest and moral (as money) due to its design and trustless, permissionless features.
 
Any thoughts on XRP crypto? Do any of you guys own it? It's been at around $3 which is up substantially in recent weeks. Keeping my eye on it and might pull the trigger on some next week or so.
I admittedly don't understand any aspect of this except as a trade and/or connections to other people, such as "friends of the administration". No other coin is actually money, and all of them have ICOs with founders already pre-mining. Since BTC has won, all of the other coins are just distractions, or at best, businesses that could sell some technology to others for a fee. The problem with even that is that you can just copy all other projects on the base layer of payment (BTC). Since I don't play alts, ultimately I have no risk and no real opinion. I'd rather just leverage BTC at certain trading times, like now with MSTR.
 
Any thoughts on XRP crypto? Do any of you guys own it? It's been at around $3 which is up substantially in recent weeks. Keeping my eye on it and might pull the trigger on some next week or so.
I'm just going to give you my humble opinion, I was an XRP holder, I bought at 0.21 cents in 2020, and sold most of it in 2021 because of the fundamentals, the lawsuit, and the obnoxious XRP army community (worse than the bitcoin maxis), and it is pretty shady too, the way they dump on their holders and their dealings with central institutions. I prefer XLM which is the alternative for the same narrative of ''bridging banks and tradfi financial system with crypto'' and it has more upside potential.

XRP is already too risky, If we get a crazy last bull run, probably 5-6 usd max? IDk, we're kinda late to the party, if anything we'll have one last leg and one underwhelming ''altseason''. I've already taken 25% of all my positions off, and I'm already several Xs up in my investment, so whatever happens I'm not losing a single penny of my initial invesment. I'll be buying bitcoin again hopefully when we're in the next bear market below 50-30k bottom. If you want to take some risk for a 1-5x with minimal risk at this point, I'd rather go with a ETH heavy portfolio and some other Boomer coins that are on their lows. I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with the current state of the market, but I don't think we're that near the peak, but heading there in a few months. Still, take everything I say with a grain of salt, if you decide to buy a bag of XRP I wish you the best and I'll respect the pump if it comes.
 
XRP is a gamble. It's not going to complete with Bitcoin, but it could fill an important role in the market if it is "selected" by the establishment.

I don't see why it should cost $30 to wire money via SWIFT to someone overseas when XRP can do it for fractions of a cent and at lightning speed. Sure there is also Wise and WU and others, but they're much slower and costlier than XRP. The major cost still associated with XRP is conversion to fiat, which is a larger crypto issue. Only Revolut has a better model and that's only between account holders in certain countries and only free at limited amounts.

Something will eventually replace this expensive, slow, and outdated system of cross border transfers. Whether or not that's XRP is the question. It has to be supported by the establishment to be successful. So the real question for investors is "do you think this will be backed by the government and financial industry?", and it looks like things may be heading that way with XRP. We could potentially see 10x returns. I have a small position in it, but certainly wouldn't bet my life savings on it.
 
As I indicated a long time ago, alts are essentially doing nothing big picture in terms of market cap. BTC dominance is real.

Something will eventually replace this expensive, slow, and outdated system of cross border transfers. Whether or not that's XRP is the question. It has to be supported by the establishment to be successful.
All of this still circles back to BTC, as the real money. Anything else is just a version of CBDC. You can already send value (BTC) to people across the world for minimal amounts, certainly better than the banking system, and quickly (within hours it the transaction is confirmed). The issue then is how to handle the transaction by governments, which is something being considered right now. But that will be considered and centralized if some other coin is used, but they don't even need that coin as I've said, they can just start using "JP Morgan coin". I see absolutely NO use for XRP, beyond its beginning as another alt scam.
 
As I indicated a long time ago, alts are essentially doing nothing big picture in terms of market cap. BTC dominance is real.


All of this still circles back to BTC, as the real money. Anything else is just a version of CBDC. You can already send value (BTC) to people across the world for minimal amounts, certainly better than the banking system, and quickly (within hours it the transaction is confirmed). The issue then is how to handle the transaction by governments, which is something being considered right now. But that will be considered and centralized if some other coin is used, but they don't even need that coin as I've said, they can just start using "JP Morgan coin". I see absolutely NO use for XRP, beyond its beginning as another alt scam.
You could certainly send BTC to people instead, although it is slower and more computationally expensive. BTC works better as digital gold than as currency.

I foresee a future where Bitcoin exists in parallel with the government-industrial banking system. I don't think it will ever replace it completely. And yeah, there could be a JP Morgan coin or something else instead of XRP. But likely we will see convergence to one single financial standard, and there's a good chance it will be exactly XRP. And there's a better chance it won't be. But with the potential market share it could capture and the associated price explosion, I think it's worth the gamble.
 
You could certainly send BTC to people instead, although it is slower and more computationally expensive. BTC works better as digital gold than as currency.
I agree with this. Even if you are a BTC maxi, which I have never called myself, but I have described myself as closer to "maxi" than not, something I think Saylor for the most part is. I say that because he's a maxi type with a practicality and understanding of the world, not what I would call an overly idealistic view, such as what Ammous maintains.

Also, when you really extrapolate it, we can still state that BTC will force many things and make others bend the knee in various ways, due to its characteristics and inability for the larger players to control it all/at once/at will. The main point here, and what a lot of the detractors don't understand on this thread, is that there may be a sizeable portion of people who just insist on the government and debasement, or are, sadly, hopeless without some emotional connections to others for consensus, security, and that which should be "followed". What's funny is that it proves our point about freedom and the system.
But likely we will see convergence to one single financial standard, and there's a good chance it will be exactly XRP.
Why is it a "good chance"? I don't see it, and seriously, it's not because I have anything in particular against XRP. Wouldn't you just use stablecoins instead? And by definition, all of these are just digital fiat of a more advanced (and scary) form.
 
Why is it a "good chance"? I don't see it, and seriously, it's not because I have anything in particular against XRP. Wouldn't you just use stablecoins instead? And by definition, all of these are just digital fiat of a more advanced (and scary) form.
I saw some reports saying the Trump administration was getting ready to prop up XRP. Don't have it on hand now but I got the feeling it's going to get broader institutional support soon. And as for your other question, sure you could use stablecoins. But it's really what "they" do that determines the price and volume. You won't make any money investing in stablecoins.
 
I saw some reports saying the Trump administration was getting ready to prop up XRP. Don't have it on hand now but I got the feeling it's going to get broader institutional support soon. And as for your other question, sure you could use stablecoins. But it's really what "they" do that determines the price and volume. You won't make any money investing in stablecoins.
I've seen similar reports. From some insiders that I know, I still think it sounds like a trade to me, meaning it won't last but it can go another 15-20% if lucky.

Alts are getting smashed by BTC at this point. We aren't in similar cycles anymore. I predicted this, but it was more about me knowing that we have plenty of value and less risk in BTC, not that one theoretically couldn't pick the "right" altcoin during the season. That just always like a dumb risk to me, since I know how hard trading/timing is.
 


Is this FUD or are this guys concerns legitimate?

Of course they're legitimate. He's saying everything I've been saying. Namely that, possession is 9/10th of the law and if you don't have possession of an asset then you literally have nothing (it once took me two weeks to get 50K cash out of my bank account because they had to "order" the cash). In many ways money is not even a real asset because you can't eat it. Take all your money out of BTC and the stock market (because it is gambling in a system you can't control) and buy assets you can control like tools for what he calls "homesteading" (land, structures for shelter, trucks, backhoes, generators, tractors, etc.).

In addition, he states that only early adobters and exiters like himself did really well with BTC, but once he noticed that The Man (JQ globalist bankers) started taking notice of BTC and getting involved with ideas of "governnent reserves" of BTC that BTC had officially "jumped the shark" and so he exited. Bitcoin like any other thing on computers and the internet can be hacked and stolen. You could wake up one day and it could all be gone. Furthermore, bitcoin furthers (((they're))) globalist agenda because it is one step closer to a cashless society and that the illusion that "it can't be confiscated" is the perfect cover for actually confiscating it with a stroke of a key instead of having to physically find you, put a gun to your head, while saying "show us where all your gold is buried or else!" With bitcoin (((they))) actually can find out where it is and who has it by tracking IP addresses (bypassing VPN's) while knowing exactly how much of it is out there (200 million coins of which approximately 20% has already been lost forever).

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Get out now.
 
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