Alternative citizenship, passports, and permanent resident status

Blade Runner

Blade Runner

Orthodox
Heirloom
What countries currently are thought to be the most attractive for optionality outside of one's increasingly heavy handed country? Should you get permanent resident status somewhere first? Are golden visas worth it? Let's exchange ideas on what parts of the world the average "developed world" citizen should consider for geographical protection.
 
Why don't you just stay put? What are you running away from? America is the best country on earth, you won't find anywhere better! By the way, I'm 97 years old, married with 13 kids, 8 grandkids, 5 dogs, 16 cats, and I've never left my hometown. I live in Redneckville, Trailertown USA. /s

Would be nice to get a thread that actually focuses on your question for once. Maybe I scared them off.

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I never knew that Belize was classified as an English-speaking country. That's news to me! Very cool...

From NomadCapitalist.com:

"3. Belize​

Move from USA to Belize
If your definition of the easiest country to move to from the USA includes an English-speaking population, consider Belize!
Even though there are some parts of Mexico and Panama where you can get by with only English, it’s advisable to learn at least enough Spanish to function in local communities. However, if you’re looking for an English-speaking country, particularly if you’re a retiree, look to Belize.

Some of the benefits of Belize are that you are next to Mexico, there are nonstop flights from various cities in the US down to Belize, and you will also get to enjoy excellent diving and beach areas. In addition, setting up offshore bank accounts in Belize is fairly easy.

Belize could be an excellent option if you want to move to an English-speaking country to live a slow-paced beach life.

The residence process is relatively easier for retirees. You bring about $24,000 a year into the banks there, show that you have enough funds to support yourself, and you can move all your household goods into the country duty-free.

However, it’s a much smaller country than even Panama and certainly Mexico. They have a lot of options for someone looking for a bit more laid-back lifestyle. It’s not a bad place to live if you’re just looking to escape and have a totally different life experience. A lot of Americans have chosen to go down there."

There's a Greek Orthodox Church that I found too. Everything on the Facebook page is in English. Nice!

Screenshot_20240407_214150_Facebook.webp
 
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Blade Runner said:
What countries currently are thought to be the most attractive for optionality outside of one's increasingly heavy handed country? Should you get permanent resident status somewhere first? Are golden visas worth it? Let's exchange ideas on what parts of the world the average "developed world" citizen should consider for geographical protection.
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Good thread idea man, thanks for starting it @Blade Runner!

For me the question would largely depend on what exactly you are trying to avoid and what kind of environment one is seeking.
All of these are sliding scales with no set value that is "right". It's more of finding your ideal balance.
- Government overreach vs largely being left alone
- Over urbanization vs extremely rural areas
- Strict implementation of laws vs live & let live, chaotic society

These are just a few factors to consider, once you have an idea of what kind of environment you are looking for, then it would be a matter of filtering locations based on that. Probably narrow it down to 3-5 countries and then start visiting them to see if its actually a good fit for you personally.
 
Portugal had one of the best residency programs. Zero taxation for 10 years and easy straightforward residency permit. But it was restricted last year by government due to house prices. A new government was elected. So it might change.

The difference between normal visas and golden visas are the requirement of living in the country.

Most residency permits demand you to stay at least 6 months per year in the country. Golden visas is less demanding asking for 10 days or even less per year.

That’s the only advantage of applying to a golden visa.
If you plan on actually living in the country than you should never apply to a golden visa. The fees are much higher and all those investor visa programs are extremely volatile.

There are wealthy visa permits in Spain (no lucrativo) and Portugal( D7) which are much better. But you need to stay 6months out of every year.

First you have a temporary permit normally of 2 years and after 5 years you can apply to a permanent. Which is normally valid for 5 years The difference is the length of permit. Permanent residence renewals are also less demanding than temporary.

At this moment I think Greece is the best option for golden visas in Europe. But if your really relocating to the country there’s no reason whatsoever on applying to a golden visa.

Also Dubai and Qatar are opening investment permit schemes I read somewhere the other day.

What you need to have is tax (foreign source income mostly) and residency permit well studied before making any decision. If you go to a Southern Europe country without having the tax well studied you are entering tax hell. And specifically Spanish tax fraud it’s crime and jail time.

I had to deal with these programs for a while due to their connection to real estate. But I’m not an expert. Feel free to shoot any more questions.
 
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Here are some things to keep in mind:

If you have a family, there are few places that, considering all things, are ever going to be better big picture than the USA given how big the country is and that you know it well. The only difference is if you feel very strongly about the culture affecting your children and you'd just rather live somewhere else. I find that would be 1% of people or less, even from among our crowd. Most would just raise their kids in a more remote area and/or home school or be around a normal community.

If single, the main part of the question still revolves around suitable women and/or family formation. This should be quite obvious because a man who can move to other countries because he has many things in his life in order, also would be able to move to advantageous regions of the USA like the family example above. As a result, one would consider the balance of cost of living with restrictions, and women. That largely excludes most of Europe, except for select regions in central or eastern europe. LatAm and East Asia become then the most relevant places to consider, depending on where you live currently and how you might interact or be ok with whichever racial makeup you are ok with. I, for example, have little interest in Asia because I don't find mixing ideal nor do I want to travel that far or be that far away - it offers me no advantage over LatAm, except for possibly a safer environment.

I'm going to keep an eye on El Salvador mostly because I can see it becoming a sane place in the future, a type of improved, western hemisphere BTC oasis. At a minimum, even if it's not that great of a country, it might be a hub for workers which will expand the pool of LatAm potentials, sort of how Mexico is functioning currently.
 
El Salvador is very interesting, especially because of how fast it was turned around. Amazing how when 'the strong man is bound', the country can be plundered, and vice versa. Much like the parable in Matt 12:29.

Another factor to consider is whether the local language is spoken only in that country or around the region. How hard it is to master or at least be able to get around and do what you need to do? In this regard LatAm and SA are excellent options as most of the languages are relatively simple to learn and useful in multiple places.
 
Northern Pilgrim said:
El Salvador is very interesting, especially because of how fast it was turned around. Amazing how when 'the strong man is bound', the country can be plundered, and vice versa. Much like the parable in Matt 12:29.

Another factor to consider is whether the local language is spoken only in that country or around the region. How hard it is to master or at least be able to get around and do what you need to do? In this regard LatAm and SA are excellent options as most of the languages are relatively simple to learn and useful in multiple places.
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Yes. The sad truth about the US and the west in general is that if you are even late 30s people don't think you should be able to go out with or marry women who are 10+ years younger. It's more about the social propaganda and taboo than it is any real biological reality, of course. What's more, people may not like that you go to other countries, but have you noticed that if you were to marry a woman over 10 years younger, but she's from a different country, it's relatively more acceptable? It shows how stupid the whole thing is.

I still can't believe how someone in the US would think that a man who is, let's say, 40 and has a solid career and is ascending in resources, would consider any woman who isn't at least a decade younger than he is. It's beyond bizarre.
 
Blade Runner said:
Yes. The sad truth about the US and the west in general is that if you are even late 30s people don't think you should be able to go out with or marry women who are 10+ years younger. It's more about the social propaganda and taboo than it is any real biological reality, of course. What's more, people may not like that you go to other countries, but have you noticed that if you were to marry a woman over 10 years younger, but she's from a different country, it's relatively more acceptable? It shows how stupid the whole thing is.

I still can't believe how someone in the US would think that a man who is, let's say, 40 and has a solid career and is ascending in resources, would consider any woman who isn't at least a decade younger than he is. It's beyond bizarre.
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As I've stated before, if the man is rich or famous, a very large age difference is usually forgiven, even in the west.
 
Christos_NIKA said:
As I've stated before, if the man is rich or famous, a very large age difference is usually forgiven, even in the west.
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Very few men are famous and when you say rich that only applies to the mega rich.

In a western country in this day and age you probably need a net worth of at least $50 million or more for a large age gap (say 20 year age gap) to be accepted by an attractive woman that was raised in a western country.

Normal rich men who have $5 - $10 million dollars net worth still can’t get a substantially younger woman in a western country (unless they import her and then risk getting divorce taped later).
 
And when you realize that even the billionaires end up, at least several of them, divorced and having to give those wives a good percentage of the billions, you realize that the most important thing is that the society or country has your back and everyone is in it together. But that's not the setup currently.

I recently had a quick interaction with family members who know generally how I think, and they know I'm over 40. Of course, these family members are female (thus the story) and they are so far gone with the culture not caring about what men think, desire, or believe it's worth it regarding relationships, that they can't fathom that a man might not consider women beyond 10 years younger. It's classic non-consideration regarding what your view is on life and what's possible, and projecting that on others. For example, not only are they delusional about even getting a man if they are over 40, they think a guy will be around their age to boot (lol). The main point is that they literally just don't think. Why would a man of any age, who is not really old or in horrible shape or poor, even bother with women who aren't at most early 30s? It's like they don't understand biology beyond what men desire in terms of looks, etc, in a partner. It's a lost cause completely to even bother trying to explain how stupid this is. But misery loves company, so they'll try to take you down just like they'd take other women down who'd make a choice that might actually benefit their lives.
 
Blade Runner said:
Yes. The sad truth about the US and the west in general is that if you are even late 30s people don't think you should be able to go out with or marry women who are 10+ years younger. It's more about the social propaganda and taboo than it is any real biological reality, of course. What's more, people may not like that you go to other countries, but have you noticed that if you were to marry a woman over 10 years younger, but she's from a different country, it's relatively more acceptable? It shows how stupid the whole thing is.

I still can't believe how someone in the US would think that a man who is, let's say, 40 and has a solid career and is ascending in resources, would consider any woman who isn't at least a decade younger than he is. It's beyond bizarre.
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I considered it for a minute. Dated a bunch of low 30 somethings. It was beyond awful honestly. Then I reconsidered and married my wife who is 15 years younger.
No one in my family or around me has even mentioned it being an issue. Honestly most have only said how mature my wife is. They all love her. So I think this is dependent on how the woman holds herself.
 
I would honestly recommend to people if they have no idea how to get abroad to get a teaching license in the United States or a PGCE in the UK.

With this qualification, you can teach in International schools abroad. Meaning you can get a middle class salary in basically any country in the world. Often the work is hard and sucks but I think it at least enables you to live there and get the paperwork sorted out.

In the UK, getting my qualification was one of the hardest things I've had to do as it required working in very tough schools for 3 months at a time with a mentor. I think the US version is slightly easier.

But yeah to the tech guys, I salute you and keep doing your thing. But for people lost and with no idea how to escape, just teach. It opens a lot of doors.
 
magoo said:
What you need to have is tax (foreign source income mostly) and residency permit well studied before making any decision. If you go to a Southern Europe country without having the tax well studied you are entering tax hell. And specifically Spanish tax fraud it’s crime and jail time.

I had to deal with these programs for a while due to their connection to real estate. But I’m not an expert. Feel free to shoot any more questions.
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What are the mechanics of taxation of passive income for an American living abroad? In other words how does the jurisdiction where you are living 51% of the time obtain information about your income that is used to calculate a tax bill?

As I understand, Americans (along with Eritreans) are the only citizens in the world who are subject to taxation worldwide no matter where they are, unless they renounce their citizenship.

The only positive is that ~$100,000 of income annually is excluded from US taxation, presumably because you are paying tax on that already to the foreign government where you are living. Does the US IRS require proof that you paid taxes to a foreign nation to receive this exemption? (Or proof of exemption for countries that do not require an American to pay tax on passive income)

How does the foreign nation (Spain, for example) know that you are receiving dividends from American stocks that you purchased in America years ago? I obviously wouldn't want to risk jail time if they figured it out, but aren't you kind of on the honor system to report income that doesn't have a reporting requirement (IE wages generate a W-2 form but selling a stock issues no such document. Or does the US IRS share this info with the Spanish tax authority)?

What about using Roth investments while residing in foreign countries? Can one live off tax free Roth investments when living abroad, or are these investments only tax free in America, and not recognized by foreign countries?
 
I´ve never worked with americans. And refused to. One american passed by the office. I only received him because he had another nationality. As soon as he told me he had previously an american nationality I ended the meeting. Received an inquiry from an american the other day. Gave him such high fees. I never heard from him again.

Was in a meeting with a fund management company. Supposedly there was the possibility through a french bank to receive US investors. The fund management immediately said the fees for compliance of the american investors would be 10x more than europeans.

I´ve dealt with investment with europeans (mostly french) middle east and asians ( mostly chinese). Arabs and chinese don´t give a fuck about taxes.

French were mostly retired. But there´s a thing to look into which is the center of interests. Your life must be in this new country. This means for tax purpose. Your main income or your activity cannot be in a different country. Supposedly there was an old woman who had 10 buildings in Paris. And went to Portugal rented a house. The french tax department told her. No way. Your center of interests is still here. So you pay french taxes. I think between US states it´s the same.

So the main thing is having the US side covered. And aftewards the place where you want to go. Also whenever you want to live. Always always avoid liberal areas. The most vicious people in the state departments live in those places. This happens even inside small countries. Avoid liberal areas like the plague. There are also countries to whom you might go which your country do not allow it for 5 years.

In tax every case is different. And nobody knows what to do. It´s crazy to have increased so much the government power.

@Blade Runner Nationalities which are given without any connexion to the country (which maybe might be the case). Are easily revocable. Nationality is like a tree. If it doesn´t take some time to grow. It´s fake. And I´ve heard some countries who offered citizenship just revoked a lot of them.
 
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magoo said:
@Blade Runner Nationalities which are given without any connexion to the country (which maybe might be the case). Are easily revocable. Nationality is like a tree. If it doesn´t take some time to grow. It´s fake. And I´ve heard some countries who offered citizenship just revoked a lot of them.
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The question is more of optionality and travel, rather than some other realistic long term allegiance. But I understand what you are saying.

Everything in the world is in question, and a work in progress, until the major shoes drop. Those shoes will be centered around monetary systems, population effects (losses), and the before and after of war.
 
I have a 5 year visa exemption in Vietnam (Vietnamese wife) and 2 kids and could go for my permanent, but I love this country too much to leave. Especially if the time comes that I might have to help protect her.

Can confirm @Tippy and his advice about teaching abroad. I never wanted to teach English, but i was offered and briefly began working as a physical education teacher in Hanoi. The salary was $3000, apartment assistance, health care for me and my family, free school for the kids, etc. For SEA, it was a salary i probably could've handled.

There are other opportunities as well for English speaking college graduates
 
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