Agnostic's Corner (Is God real?)

[NSOE]

But my guess is even those "simple" organisms which preceded "LUCA" were surprisingly complex. Unless in the future scientists can provide evidence of some preceding organism which could have actually functioned while being extremely basic (i.e. not containing a vast amount of DNA and thousands of proteins, etc)

I've always been a creationist even when evolution was discussed in primary school. Here are some Christian resources on creation:

The Myth of the Natural Origin of Life – Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation

kolbecenter.org

Evolution/Creation – Dr. James Tour

jmtour.com

Do You Know How Complex a Single Cell Is? – Creation Moments

creationmoments.com

Bacteria’s Eyes and Ears – Creation Moments

creationmoments.com

What Was the First Form of Life? – Creation Moments

creationmoments.com

 

[Johnnyvee]

As an agnostic who fence sits on the existence of god I cannot see how we got to where we are today without a creator because even if you assume the big bang was the starting point (leaving aside for a minute the infinite regression paradox) all the other occurrences after that still don't make sense.

Scientists now believe that even the first single celled organisms that they can trace back to had hugely complex DNA with a vast amount of information programmed into it. That is the equivalent of saying that the first painting a child ever painted the first time they picked up a brush was copying perfectly the Mona Lisa. My understanding of science is pretty basic but to me it just doesn't compute that the starting point is already so complex in an organic system that wasn't designed by a creator. The counter argument to this is that there were even simpler organisms before "LUCA".

All Life on Earth Today Descended From a Single Cell. Meet LUCA. | Quanta Magazine

The clearest picture yet of our “last universal common ancestor” suggests it was a relatively complex organism living 4.2 billion years ago, a time long considered too harsh for life to flourish.

www.quantamagazine.org

But my guess is even those "simple" organisms which preceded "LUCA" were surprisingly complex. Unless in the future scientists can provide evidence of some preceding organism which could have actually functioned while being extremely basic (i.e. not containing a vast amount of DNA and thousands of proteins, etc) then the whole story does not make sense.

You are right to point out a dilemma there. If life existed very early on in the planet's history, in a cell form with RNA/DNA/microtubules etc. (which seems to be the case) and given the extreme complexity of those structures, there could not have been enough time for evolutionary processes to form such life on earth. The idea then is that life originated much earlier in the history of the universe, and spread via impact events. (panspermia) Where that leaves God and creation idk, but it's an alternative explanation at least!

There's also the notion that some information can transfer from one eon of the universe to the next, which gives you all the time you need, and the possibility that the universe itself evolves and has some form of evolved (?) proto-concsiousness built into it?

 

[Pravoslavac]

So the materialist, nominalist think that the universe is cyclical but forget the fact that they don't have any sense data to prove it which makes their statement a dogmatic, religious presupposition. These people don't hate religion, they believe one, they just hate the religion of Christ.

 

[Mrs TexasJenn]

I've personally experienced the "something beyond the physically explainable reality", I'm absolutely positive that something is going on outside of myself that I cannot understand. But, at the moment, I cannot link this to a being. When I try to link it to an entity I feel like it's an impossible task because *I* am inserting myself ( projection ) into the attempt to understand. I've read parts of the Bible and I feel like it's an attempt to make the non-understandable somewhat coherent for normal brains, and so there's a corruption of truth in this process that I just can't get past. It's the fact that the smartest of the smart believe in God that impresses me so much that I am keeping an open mind, I have to! these people are absolutely brilliant, I'm not, there HAS to be something to it. So, that's where I'm at for the moment.

God is beyond our logical understanding. Faith is more a matter of the heart than the mind. Dark forces tend to work through our thoughts. God works through our feelings, and love is the essence of God.

The spiritual dimension is real and highly active - in my experience. I used to be agnostic. The spiritual dimension really came alive for me as I drew closer to the Church and then was baptized.

I seriously wish I believed in God, I've prayed about 200 times in the past 4 years and haven't noticed a sign. I'm envious of those of you that feel a comfort and peace because of your belief. Hopefully I'll arrive there one day.

Have you tried considering that God is real, praying and talking to God as if you know he's real? For a few weeks or however long you can sustain it. If you don't like it and don't get anything out of it, you can always go back to your old approach.

For me, it's been through humble, simple prayers that I've felt the clearest answers from God.

 

[Seng Hock]

God is beyond our logical understanding. Faith is more a matter of the heart than the mind. Dark forces tend to work through our thoughts. God works through our feelings, and love is the essence of God.

The spiritual dimension is real and highly active - in my experience. I used to be agnostic. The spiritual dimension really came alive for me as I drew closer to the Church and then was baptized.

For me, what convinced me that the spiritual world is real is witnessing unnatural, seemingly demonic occurrences around me. At one particular location at night, I would suddenly smell fragrant flowers despite there being none nearby, or conversely, the stench of cow dung would appear despite there being no manure around.

I have seen doorknobs turn on their own and doors open slightly before automatically closing again (it has automatic mechanism) — even though the apartment had no open windows (so absolutely no wind) and nobody was present. In the same apartment, I often heard the sound of water dripping from the faucet, yet upon inspection, no valves were open and the sink was completely dry.

I have also sensed that locations formerly used for occult practices feel unusually dark and unsettling.

I know people who have made pacts with supernatural forces to gain wealth and power, and it did indeed grant them what they desired — but at a cost.

Experiences like these have convinced me that if the supernatural world is real, then God, as its polar opposite, must also be real.​

Have you tried considering that God is real, praying and talking to God as if you know he's real? For a few weeks or however long you can sustain it. If you don't like it and don't get anything out of it, you can always go back to your old approach.

For me, it's been through humble, simple prayers that I've felt the clearest answers from God.

It’s because people are using the wrong instruments to connect with God.

It’s like trying to use your eyes to hear sounds or your ears to see light — it simply doesn’t work that way.

The same principle applies to God. If we want to connect with Him, we must use our mind and soul. Throughout history, Christians have received Christ and the Holy Spirit. Even pagan peoples in remote areas have managed to connect with the spirits around them.

Most people who don't think God is real often come from a place of pride. Their attitude is, “If you’re real and almighty, God, then show yourself right in front of my eyes!” But of course, it doesn’t work like that.​

 

[analyst_green]

I would suddenly smell fragrant flowers despite there being none nearby, or conversely, the stench of cow dung would appear despite there being no manure around.

Yes, sometimes I would get a whiff of frankincense and myrrh at random places like walking in the park. Most likely that is the demons trying to get me to be prideful and think I'm so holy God would grant me this, just like the scent at church. And it actually worked the first couple of times.

I have also sensed that locations formerly used for occult practices feel unusually dark and unsettling.

There is certainly something to that. Last year I was in a neighborhood next to a masonic temple. I got a really unsettling vibe emanating from the building.

 

[Zep]

God is beyond our logical understanding. Faith is more a matter of the heart than the mind. Dark forces tend to work through our thoughts. God works through our feelings, and love is the essence of God.

The spiritual dimension is real and highly active - in my experience. I used to be agnostic. The spiritual dimension really came alive for me as I drew closer to the Church and then was baptized.


Have you tried considering that God is real, praying and talking to God as if you know he's real? For a few weeks or however long you can sustain it. If you don't like it and don't get anything out of it, you can always go back to your old approach.

For me, it's been through humble, simple prayers that I've felt the clearest answers from God.

Hi Jenn,

I've thought a lot about how to respond to your post. The problem I'm having is not sounding like I'm qualifying myself by describing incredibly personal and also spiritual experiences that would convince you that I'm no stranger to the spiritual world. In fact, as a musician, I have to dabble in it frequently, that's where otherworldly ideas come from! So, I thought I'd answer by providing this video of Jill Bolte Taylors amazing talk on what she experienced while having a stroke.

If you go to 8:40 to about 10:30 she describes a spiritual/religious/paranormal experience that millions of people around the world have experienced and actively aim towards through various techniques like meditation, praying, psychedelic substance taking, to get to. It's shutting off the ego, or self, and "surrendering" to something greater than oneself, as people we crave transcendence, we crave something more than the ordinary, it's a part of the human condition.

Do some of her statements sound familiar? 'because I could no longer identify the boundaries of my body I felt enormous and expansive, I felt at one with all the energy that was". I mean c'mon, how many quotes could we pull-up by sages throughout history that parallel this. "we are all one" "we are all an expression of the divine", etc. I had an experience similar to hers but it lasted six hours, and I didn't go "offline" as she states, it was pure joy, love, and amazement at the world, I was smiling in awe so much that the next day my cheeks were sore. I was outside and saw the trees and grass and earth shimmering with energy, it was incredible, but ultimately unsustainable, you'd fry your batteries if you remained in that state for too long, and we have basic work and tasks to attend to in the ordinary world.

Just a side note on the term "energy". Quantum physicists have come right up to the edge of the spiritual realm, so much so that a couple of them ( these are only ones that I personally know of ) became interested in the Indian interpretation of life, I.E, David Bohms relationship with Jiddu Krishnamurti over the years, and noble prize winner Brian Josephson who left physics to investigate eastern mysticism. This is interesting to me because Chris Langan ( highest reported IQ in the U.S. ), author of the CTMU, (which professional academia refuses to acknowledge cos' they're threatened), also states that literally everything is energy, i.e. a cup, a table, is an organization of energy, (and this, a mirror or expression of the divine.) The take-away for myself in all of this( and also the men mentioned above ) is that the material world and pure energy are not separate but exist along a continuum, this means that to an extent, the human mind, or rather, soul, can will or manifest certain things into material existence ( I'm not talking about turning a dog into a bar of gold, or a camel into a housing-unit ), but rather, we can to an extent will our destiny. So, if this is the case, I wonder who would be threatened by every humans innate capacity to do this? The elites of course, and why they keep bombarding us all with information that tries to keep us constantly engaged in the left-hemisphere (rational, logical, personal) and away from the potential that we all have that exists in our souls.

 

[Iakobos]

Hi Jenn,

I've thought a lot about how to respond to your post. The problem I'm having is not sounding like I'm qualifying myself by describing incredibly personal and also spiritual experiences that would convince you that I'm no stranger to the spiritual world. In fact, as a musician, I have to dabble in it frequently, that's where otherworldly ideas come from! So, I thought I'd answer by providing this video of Jill Bolte Taylors amazing talk on what she experienced while having a stroke.

If you go to 8:40 to about 10:30 she describes a spiritual/religious/paranormal experience that millions of people around the world have experienced and actively aim towards through various techniques like meditation, praying, psychedelic substance taking, to get to. It's shutting off the ego, or self, and "surrendering" to something greater than oneself, as people we crave transcendence, we crave something more than the ordinary, it's a part of the human condition.

Do some of her statements sound familiar? 'because I could no longer identify the boundaries of my body I felt enormous and expansive, I felt at one with all the energy that was". I mean c'mon, how many quotes could we pull-up by sages throughout history that parallel this. "we are all one" "we are all an expression of the divine", etc. I had an experience similar to hers but it lasted six hours, and I didn't go "offline" as she states, it was pure joy, love, and amazement at the world, I was smiling in awe so much that the next day my cheeks were sore. I was outside and saw the trees and grass and earth shimmering with energy, it was incredible, but ultimately unsustainable, you'd fry your batteries if you remained in that state for too long, and we have basic work and tasks to attend to in the ordinary world.

Just a side note on the term "energy". Quantum physicists have come right up to the edge of the spiritual realm, so much so that a couple of them ( these are only ones that I personally know of ) became interested in the Indian interpretation of life, I.E, David Bohms relationship with Jiddu Krishnamurti over the years, and noble prize winner Brian Josephson who left physics to investigate eastern mysticism. This is interesting to me because Chris Langan ( highest reported IQ in the U.S. ), author of the CTMU, (which professional academia refuses to acknowledge cos' they're threatened), also states that literally everything is energy, i.e. a cup, a table, is an organization of energy, (and this, a mirror or expression of the divine.) The take-away for myself in all of this( and also the men mentioned above ) is that the material world and pure energy are not separate but exist along a continuum, this means that to an extent, the human mind, or rather, soul, can will or manifest certain things into material existence ( I'm not talking about turning a dog into a bar of gold, or a camel into a housing-unit ), but rather, we can to an extent will our destiny. So, if this is the case, I wonder who would be threatened by every humans innate capacity to do this? The elites of course, and why they keep bombarding us all with information that tries to keep us constantly engaged in the left-hemisphere (rational, logical, personal) and away from the potential that we all have that exists in our souls.

Are you a Christian?

 

[Mrs TexasJenn]

Hi Jenn,

I've thought a lot about how to respond to your post...

Hi, Zep

I agree that the powers that be go to extreme lengths to suppress the divinity within people. Personally, after years of searching and researching, I've come to believe that they're ultimately working in service to evil, Satan and all his demons.

Before I was baptized into the Orthodox Church, over the years I visited dozens of different churches of different denominations going back to early childhood, searching for the truth. Eventually I tried a nice non-denominational church and kind of settled in there.

I had a lot of questions, and the pastor referred me to a woman who was a member of that church. We began a mentoring, counseling type of relationship. Throughout my life I've had many interesting experiences, including episodes of clairvoyance, clear, detailed visions of places and events before they happened.

I had also gotten into some new age stuff, like law of attraction, or "manifesting," where you think about and write about and talk about the things you want in great detail, and then they come into being. I had gotten very good at this, to the point that almost anything I focused on would come to be, with increasing speed and accuracy.

I asked this lady where these downloads or hits or insights or answers or responses come from. The woo woo philosophy or theology would tell you it comes from "the universe." But I had begun to ask myself if it was all coming from a good place, or not. I felt a sense of this power or ability, and the possibility that it might not all be coming from a pure or good source troubled me.

This lady was very nice and she helped me in some ways, but she wasn't a Christian, and I didn't feel I was getting the full truth from her.

I don't think this kind of visualization is all wrong. In fact, the Bible says, in Matthew 7:

7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

After discussion with a priest and reflection, I now understand that God answers prayers that are... Godly, in accordance with doing His will. Asking for wealth or luxuries and the like isn't Godly. It's worldly.

Please forgive my simplistic explanations. I'm a very new Christian, just 3 1/2 years in, and I've heard and I believe it takes a long time (like 20 years) to even begin to get your arms around it.

Not long after that, I came across a video - I believe it was on the old Roosh V Forum - that connected all the dots for me and convinced me once and for all that I had to become a true Christian. I'll share the video with you, but I have to warn you to proceed with caution. After I watched this video, I had terrible nightmares for the next two nights. I understood right away that I was under attack by dark forces (demons) who were trying to scare me. But it only reinforced the truth for me and strengthened my conviction.

Spoiler: Video

Now I understand that I was right to be concerned and discerning about any help or insights or power I was receiving from "the universe." Now I understand that dark forces can give you wonderful things and make your life easy, comfortable, wealthy, happy, and carefree. As long as you're relishing all the worldly things and not looking beyond, not striving for something higher, they're happy because they've got you - stuck in low-level worldly pleasures and not under God's wing.

From Matthew 7:

13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Be careful who or what you surrender to. In my opinion, the only one worthy of our surrender is Jesus, the incarnate son of God.

It won't be easy. If it's a true surrender, you will carry your cross, as Jesus commanded. You will enter the spiritual battle and you will be targeted.

But it's worth it. I believe life is one big test and this is the only way to pass the test. This is the only way we can unite with God, with good, and overcome evil.

Please pray for me and I'll pray for you