A Question About Sexual Purity and Sin

[analyst_green]

I know we want to believe this, but in reality, this isn't how human nature is and how things pan-out with women's dual mating strategy, unless "you are the man" and you choose each other. I never, ever thought the man choosing the woman whilst the woman reluctantly accepts the man was ever a good idea since age 16, and sometimes I have little sympathy when I often see a relatively passive woman eventually taking the lead in the relationship....because deep in her heart he was never the one. Maybe this is sinful to want strong passion (lust) in the relationship, but....women make the rules in the dating game as to who they want, so that they willfully submit to the man of their choice, rather than under duress. It's unnatural when a woman submits to a guy who's punching above his weight, and she knows it.

What you're referring to as "human nature" is the corrupt aspect of human nature. These are the passions: envy, greed, lust, etc. But the soul has the potential to transcend all that, even though some passions will always remain.

But I get what you're saying with the desire aspect. In traditional societies, parents would help their daughters choose a husband. Back then they knew that a young woman might be inclined to choose a man that excites her, rather than someone who is actually good for her long-term. She might reluctantly accept her father's choice at first, but over time would realize that was best for her. Even so, these women wouldn't be forced into marriage and had the Christian upbringing to have some sense of their own.

We don't have that luxury today because the fathers are weak and the mothers are feminists. This is our cross. Finding a suitable wife is much, much harder today. We might have to do a lot of the legwork that the parents handled back then. But once you get over that first step, I absolutely think you can lead a woman and have her submit to your guidance if you hold frame.

Im putting myself in your shoes if it was me I would either get married and probably quite fast I dont waste time OR I would go become a monk and go live in a monestary, I wouldnt want to be living in sin and I would probably struggle living in society single I think theres too many temptations and I would try avoid them personally.

Well, if you choose a wife too quickly, you might make a serious mistake that would make your life harder than it needs to be. So it requires some discernment. But that needs to be balanced against the burden of living as a single man for an extended period. As for monasticism, I wouldn't do that unless I was absolutely 100% sure that was my calling.

 

[GoodShepherd]

What you're referring to as "human nature" is the corrupt aspect of human nature. These are the passions: envy, greed, lust, etc. But the soul has the potential to transcend all that, even though some passions will always remain.

But I get what you're saying with the desire aspect. In traditional societies, parents would help their daughters choose a husband. Back then they knew that a young woman might be inclined to choose a man that excites her, rather than someone who is actually good for her long-term. She might reluctantly accept her father's choice at first, but over time would realize that was best for her. Even so, these women wouldn't be forced into marriage and had the Christian upbringing to have some sense of their own.

We don't have that luxury today because the fathers are weak and the mothers are feminists. This is our cross. Finding a suitable wife is much, much harder today. We might have to do a lot of the legwork that the parents handled back then. But once you get over that first step, I absolutely think you can lead a woman and have her submit to your guidance if you hold frame.



Well, if you choose a wife too quickly, you might make a serious mistake that would make your life harder than it needs to be. So it requires some discernment. But that needs to be balanced against the burden of living as a single man for an extended period. As for monasticism, I wouldn't do that unless I was absolutely 100% sure that was my calling.

Yes its not for everyone to be a monk or nun only certain people, a wife shouldnt be chosen to quickly agreed, especially if you very young but if you already over 30-40-50 I dont think you have the luxury of being too too picky especially if you arent super rich.

Regarding the arranged marriages they did have a higher success rate, people divorced less than now for example.

I knew an old couple I think they still alive today, they didnt even live in the same country at the time and had never met each other in person, only saw 1 photo of each other and the marriage was arranged and they still married today and they such a happy loving couple.

 

[M.Balakirev]

You seem to have a realistic view of the situation that matches mine. The big issue in my opinion is our age. I’m in my 30s and I’m not around single women who are good choices anymore. Usually the women that flirt me randomly fall into a few categories:

1) Married or attached women looking for side action. Usually coworkers.

2) 25-30 something who are very attractive (out of my league) and seem to be looking for sugar daddys. I’m guessing hookers by the photos on their ig accounts and how they dress.

3) Single moms.

4) Career women, usually those with a PhD, JD, or even doctors, who want a guy they can control.

No, no, no, and no.

That's what I found from the bars at the time because that's all that was putting themselves out there by aged 30. You forgot to mention ones with mental illness too, that's one you have to look out for as well!!!

I was trying to maximise probability for the right sort with the right chemistry and they simply were not there as I fished with a very large net. But even back then, the good 'uns in church circles were already spoken for by age 20. There was only one I met at random at a disco thing where there was mutual affection when I was 19, but she lived too far away and I didn't have a car. I didn't know my arse from my elbow either.

I’ve also gotten some bad reactions from Christian women at church, with no explanation as to why.

I think it's always good to see how you fair in the real world vs church. I think young, single church girls (not sure if they're saved or not) are under a colossal number of forces which confuses them like under no uncertain terms. They really do not know what they are doing and I've been at the receiving end of fickle behaviour and it's not chad they're after....at least in bars they are far less confused and you have a good baseline for attraction because they don't have so much confusing forces going on in their heads.

Human love is always conditional and transactional. It's the ugly reality. The only kind of love that is unconditional is Divine love.

Yes indeed, and this is what the gospel is all about. I think love for your own children, and even pets surpasses human love. I think to try and bolster human love, you must have many fundamentals in common and that is rare.

The Madonna-like Christian woman that you should marry gets talked about a lot in churchianity but I've never met one either. Obviously, it's ideal if your life long covenant partner is a believer. But we no longer live in a believing age and so we cannot take for granted or believe the illusion that there are millions of chaste Christian women just waiting for a trad chad.

Do not let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

The scriptures were written in times when conditions were so much more favourable and robust. Undoubtedly, the onus was on the man to behave and keep everything in line.

Now, everything couldn't be more precarious. Even girls who go out to Africa to get rid of their guilt are not immune from 'falling in love' with a local rando.

Your original post almost sounds like you have no hope or faith in marriage or getting married, I am quite young im almost 40, Im not single though Im married with kids so Im not in your situation.

Im putting myself in your shoes if it was me I would either get married and probably quite fast I dont waste time OR I would go become a monk and go live in a monestary, I wouldnt want to be living in sin and I would probably struggle living in society single I think theres too many temptations and I would try avoid them personally.

I dont know what your age is but a man can get married and have children at any age, yes it can be hard, expensive etc etc but its worth the fight and struggle in my opinion, for me personally I dont see the point of earning money and having a house if its just for myself I do that for my wife and kids, it just makes sense to me to rather live a life of service if I were to be single, join the military or something or live for God, this is advice to myself Im putting myself in your shoes and what I think I would do.

I do have hope, but I just don't trust attractive women and the potential for what has given them, or still does, the tingles. I would say this to The Good Lord. I trust myself though from experience. I'm maybe just wiser to how women operate and as I've said before, it's too easy to marry someone who all the other men don't find attractive which would make it disingenuous. The relationship between men and women is no different than a man and his motor car and how much money he has to buy it, and how skilled he is at keeping it on the road. It's sincere to find your level.

As for completely turning to the church, I'm Protestant and there is only one Orthodox church in my province which presumably is for those from EE. I've also invested too much for a past-time which I've wanted to turn into a lively-hood eventually. To serve the church, and undoubtedly the needy, a believer IMO, must more or less sell most of his stuff, assetts etc in order for his ministry to not be hypocritical. I've invested too much in order to try and see myself out for the duration and partly because I want to see some things come to fruition. Is that wrong?

Why do you say join the military?

 

[Kido Butai]

Something which I have wondered about Onanism: is it a sin to practice while married? If thinking about your wife or husband, while they are away for a short time, and you lose control. It's happened to me while away on business trips. Perhaps I should work on self control. Sorry if that's a weird question, but it's not directly clear for me, spiritually.
Yes I know that pornography is clearly wrong

 

[GoodShepherd]

That's what I found from the bars at the time because that's all that was putting themselves out there by aged 30. You forgot to mention ones with mental illness too, that's one you have to look out for as well!!!

I was trying to maximise probability for the right sort with the right chemistry and they simply were not there as I fished with a very large net. But even back then, the good 'uns in church circles were already spoken for by age 20. There was only one I met at random at a disco thing where there was mutual affection when I was 19, but she lived too far away and I didn't have a car. I didn't know my arse from my elbow either.


I think it's always good to see how you fair in the real world vs church. I think young, single church girls (not sure if they're saved or not) are under a colossal number of forces which confuses them like under no uncertain terms. They really do not know what they are doing and I've been at the receiving end of fickle behaviour and it's not chad they're after....at least in bars they are far less confused and you have a good baseline for attraction because they don't have so much confusing forces going on in their heads.



Yes indeed, and this is what the gospel is all about. I think love for your own children, and even pets surpasses human love. I think to try and bolster human love, you must have many fundamentals in common and that is rare.



The scriptures were written in times when conditions were so much more favourable and robust. Undoubtedly, the onus was on the man to behave and keep everything in line.

Now, everything couldn't be more precarious. Even girls who go out to Africa to get rid of their guilt are not immune from 'falling in love' with a local rando.



I do have hope, but I just don't trust attractive women and the potential for what has given them, or still does, the tingles. I would say this to The Good Lord. I trust myself though from experience. I'm maybe just wiser to how women operate and as I've said before, it's too easy to marry someone who all the other men don't find attractive which would make it disingenuous. The relationship between men and women is no different than a man and his motor car and how much money he has to buy it, and how skilled he is at keeping it on the road. It's sincere to find your level.

As for completely turning to the church, I'm Protestant and there is only one Orthodox church in my province which presumably is for those from EE. I've also invested too much for a past-time which I've wanted to turn into a lively-hood eventually. To serve the church, and undoubtedly the needy, a believer IMO, must more or less sell most of his stuff, assetts etc in order for his ministry to not be hypocritical. I've invested too much in order to try and see myself out for the duration and partly because I want to see some things come to fruition. Is that wrong?

Why do you say join the military?

Doesnt have to be the military just some kind of life of serving others, a monk is one of those things, I mentioned the military because its probably not the best thing to join when married and raising a family as you would probably be away from your family more than you would want too, than they would want.

I cant tell you really what you should do with your life thats up to you I dont even know you nor am I a qualified person to tell you anything, each person is in quite a unique situation.

Anyway I really wish you the best go with God.

 

[OrthoSerb]

Something which I have wondered about Onanism: is it a sin to practice while married?

Yes, its a fall in all cases.

 

[Aboulia]

Something which I have wondered about Onanism: is it a sin to practice while married? If thinking about your wife or husband, while they are away for a short time, and you lose control. It's happened to me while away on business trips. Perhaps I should work on self control. Sorry if that's a weird question, but it's not directly clear for me, spiritually.
Yes I know that pornography is clearly wrong

You answered your own question in the asking. Losing control over oneself is sinful, as St Paul says,

1 Corinthians 9:25-27

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[M.Balakirev]

What you're referring to as "human nature" is the corrupt aspect of human nature. These are the passions: envy, greed, lust, etc. But the soul has the potential to transcend all that, even though some passions will always remain.

But I get what you're saying with the desire aspect. In traditional societies, parents would help their daughters choose a husband. Back then they knew that a young woman might be inclined to choose a man that excites her, rather than someone who is actually good for her long-term. She might reluctantly accept her father's choice at first, but over time would realize that was best for her. Even so, these women wouldn't be forced into marriage and had the Christian upbringing to have some sense of their own.

I still think the man should choose the woman who chooses him. Surely there was solid rationale when Jesus bestowed men to be the head of the household so the onus is placed on the man to live up to his God-given responsibility which would then give much greater endurance. I spoke to a work friend the other day about how lame it looks when the women lead the men in the relationship and he said it's because men are basically lazy. It's easier for someone else to make the decisions! If you ever watch closely, even in marriages where the couple aren't Christians, the men who are always active maintaining the house etc seem to have a robust relationship. Always stay fit and strong.

Well, if you choose a wife too quickly, you might make a serious mistake that would make your life harder than it needs to be. So it requires some discernment. But that needs to be balanced against the burden of living as a single man for an extended period. As for monasticism, I wouldn't do that unless I was absolutely 100% sure that was my calling.

I'm nearly thinking of scouring many churches and events in my area just to see if there is anyone within age range before I quit the idea of having any kids of my own (I'm 50, which is really getting on for a normie, even though I feel 35). The problem is, there's usually a reason why a woman who's 30+ hasn't been taken yet, almost always. If it's doubtful I could have kids or if it's destined not to be, I'd prefer pairing up with someone of similar age where there's natural chemistry and who isn't too jaded and the children have long-gone. Attractive, older normie-women are not interested in bumbling old men with no money when they can get someone fit and of similar age.

How do you know if you're being called to go the monastic route? I see many middle-class Protestants 'being called to go out to Africa' and then returning back to their very comfortable living conditions, which tells me guilt is prodding them. How can you be sure you're getting called as skeptics often will give suitable alternatives as to how you were 'being called' which at times undermines the Christian faith and makes us look bad. For me, some minor divine intervention is sufficient rather than confused emotion.

Doesnt have to be the military just some kind of life of serving others, a monk is one of those things, I mentioned the military because its probably not the best thing to join when married and raising a family as you would probably be away from your family more than you would want too, than they would want.

I cant tell you really what you should do with your life thats up to you I dont even know you nor am I a qualified person to tell you anything, each person is in quite a unique situation.

Anyway I really wish you the best go with God.

I came to faith well into middle age and I'm still invested in a couple of things that are for potential fulfillment with zero pride. I'd be a bit upset to give them up. I get on well with many men in the different areas of my life so I would have thought that that is a good source of ministry because I'm not trying to dutifully befriend anyone just to get them to come to church. You'll know yourself though, those generally coming to church now have either been in, or are in a very dark place unfortunately. No one seems to need God when they're doing alright thank you very much.

As for serving others, well I've dabbled in that with an open mind in the past, and a lot of the time I thought our church's generosity was being taken for granted. If I went out again, I'd have to select who I help, but this is awkward and hypocritical because I've been 'privileged' to be better off than those folks and have lived at that standard. Helping old people of our own is probably inoffensive because they are probably long past the point of caring who you are or where you're from and are just glad to see a face, never mind get help (I've witnessed it). Most r selected seem to be ingrates.

This is why you need to give everything up which is just almost impossible to do when you've geared most of your life towards getting a good life-time partner by maximising yourself which will probably not happen now.

As for the military, a terrific thing to go into for the conditioning, training and experience, but a very foolish thing to do right now I would have thought.

 

[Blade Runner]

You seem to have a realistic view of the situation that matches mine. The big issue in my opinion is our age. I’m in my 30s and I’m not around single women who are good choices anymore. Usually the women that flirt me randomly fall into a few categories:

1) Married or attached women looking for side action. Usually coworkers.

2) 25-30 something who are very attractive (out of my league) and seem to be looking for sugar daddys. I’m guessing hookers by the photos on their ig accounts and how they dress.

3) Single moms.

4) Career women, usually those with a PhD, JD, or even doctors, who want a guy they can control.

No, no, no, and no.

Great post. I've encountered #4 in particular which few talk about, unlike the rest which are quite obvious. I find it odd that a woman, if she liked a man, would still insist on control, even if she has sadly worked on that many masculine characteristics over time, which obviously explains most of it. There is one I found later on that liked and respected me, but I think it was too much for her given her upbringing and questionable father (I could tell that was the case early on).

A lot of the world that we might be attracted to might be category 2, since they are young and open to having fun. Most are so far gone from options, government backing them, and social media though it makes it near impossible to maintain anything but fun.

Then one day the priest had invited me to the young adult group and she was standing next to me. I said hello, she looked at me, said nothing and just walked across the room. This woman was also frumpy and unattractive so I had zero interest in her, which made the situation even more bizarre.

I didn't understand this at all. Are you suggesting that she liked you sort of, but chaos ensued and everyone acted even weirder? I find it odds sometimes when there are guys around that are clearly put together or good looking, or whatever, and other people think that they'd "go for" a woman 2 points lower than them, and maybe even older to boot ... just bizarre stuff.