2026 Bible Study Thread

Exodus 22


Some of these case laws show up later in Scripture. For example, King Saul breaks this Law by seeking divination from a witch.


Remember that Job's wife told him to "curse God and die." How is it that she knew the Law even centuries before the Law was written down? This is because the written Law is the full revelation of the natural Law. The Law has always been in effect ever since the foundation of the world, even before it was written down. That's part of Paul's point in Romans 5. The written Law, the Mosaic Covenant, is a republication of the natural Law, the Adamic Covenant. Nevertheless, no one was ever saved by the Law, whether written or unwritten, but only ever saved by the Gospel, which too has been in effect ever since the world began.
I also thought this was an intriguing law:

18“Do not allow a sorceress to live.'' -

I guess my issue with the above is how are is to to be known for sure that someone is a sorceress?

but more alarming is this:

"“You must give me the firstborn of your sons. 30;Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.'

I had to double take a few times when I read that. Is that suggesting sacrifice?
 
Exodus 23


Here is a Biblical warning against mob justice. It is almost impossible for those consumed by vengeance to recognize when they're following the crowd in a frenzy. This is the exact kind of thing that put Christ on the cross, from a human perspective anyway.


Just because someone is an underdog does not mean they are always right. In America, the left is especially fond of the victim mentality. The Bible puts a hard limit on this; being the seeming victim is not the end all be all, but the truth is.


Beware the "finder's keepers" mindset. Watch No Country for Old Men. Even though it's a movie, it shows you the logical conclusion to that broken belief. Rather, if you find something that doesn't belong to you, go out of your way to return it to whom it belongs, trusting all the way that God will meet your needs. You might think that no one sees you slip that cash in your pocket, but God sees everything.


Keep this section in mind for the next chapter.
Exodus 23

'

God’s Angel to Prepare the Way​

20;“See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. 21 Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.'

Quick question - is this angel a manifestation of God himself or are angels separate beings?

'24;Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. '

Since God is saying do not bow before other gods does this mean they must exist?
 
Are some tribes of people pure evil and in deserving of a 'blot out' ? The real world application of such a point of view is deeply concerning.
God's justice is perfect. If hell- eternal separation from God- awaits you anyway, which means you're already forsaken without realizing it, if God decides your time to go has arrived, what man can say he knows better. God sees what effect leaving you alive will have ten thousand years from now. Physical existence is meaningful but when it's over, one can see it's how much we love God that gives our life real value.
I commented on this in the RIP thread a bit more.

As to dying in the days of the New Covenant, Jesus gave his own life for humanity. Living the good life is great, death isn't nice, but it's not the worst thing in the story as other members wrote. Christians are called to deny themselves, it's about God and his will, we let go of our lives if need be. I'm in no hurry of course.


I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.'

Is this fair? And Isn't jealousy a human trait that an all-loving God should be above?
I guess God has to use our human language to convey his message and to make it comprehensible so everyone gets it. Sin is serious business and we should take it to heart is how I interpret that passage- how you would feel if somebody wronged you, easier to see and understand.


Does this give credence to the idea there are some other gods or is Jethro just messed up in his thinking here?
To me it's like saying God is greater than gods like Zeus, Shiva, or Odin, it doesn't put them on the same spot or lend them any glory besides acknowledging that the people who worshiped those deities thought of them as such. It's just an observation as seen through the eyes of the average bronze age denizen.

Human faith can fluctuate. Demons, which all the pagan gods are, can trick people with supernatural signs.

There's only one God, but almost every tribe had its own major deity, along with lesser ones, they considered better and more powerful than those of others, and often attributed their successes and failures to having them sufficiently placated, people would use the outcomes of their attempted exploits to gauge the strength of their gods, so the ancients could be doubtful and tempted to switch their religious allegiances as the fortunes of their tribes changed.


“You must give me the firstborn of your sons. 30;Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.'

I had to double take a few times when I read that. Is that suggesting sacrifice
I'm not sure if with children it meant their lives. Maybe the animals were to be given to the temple and not sacrificed either.

What I usually thought about animal sacrifices was that God ordered Israel to do that instead, as people tend to fall into depravity and start sacrificing humans and babies, emulating their neighbors. And it's a personal sacrifice, like fasting, something valuable you could have eaten or sold for profit, that you deny yourself for God, and you can see that sin is a loss for you.
 
When I read the passage about the first born I thought with the human children it was about consecration. Child sacrifice was actually specifically prohibited in the Old Covenant law (do not let your children pass through the fires of Moloch) which along with the dietary restrictions is something that set the Israelis apart from their surrounding culture.
 
Are some tribes of people pure evil and in deserving of a 'blot out' ? The real world application of such a point of view is deeply concerning.
Yup. But not just some tribes. All tribes of people are evil and worthy of God's curse. If God were only just, He would destroy all the world like He did in the flood. But since He is also gracious, He saves a people for Himself and extends a common grace to all others.

Does this give credence to the idea there are some other gods or is Jethro just messed up in his thinking here?
In actuality, there is no god like YHWH. YHWH created the angels, the angels abandoned their original post, and then the heathen worshiped them as gods. You can say there are "other gods" but it depends on what you mean. Jethro comes closer to the truth when Moses tells him what God accomplished in the Exodus.

Is this fair? And Isn't jealousy a human trait that an all-loving God should be above?
In a Platonic or Stoic scheme, God should be "above" any and all emotions. This is not the God of the Bible. God is jealous for His people the same way that a husband is jealous for His wife. God is not the kind of husband that is cool with his wife being everybody else's wife too. His jealously is proof of His love.

I had to double take a few times when I read that. Is that suggesting sacrifice?
W had it right. God is not demanding human sacrifice. The Hebrews were to give their firstborn to God by consecration. Consecrate literally means to set them apart, not lump them in with everybody else.

Quick question - is this angel a manifestation of God himself or are angels separate beings?
Depends on the context. It's not always clear. I lean on this angel being a Christophany.
 
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You must give me the firstborn of your sons. 30;Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.'

I had to double take a few times when I read that. Is that suggesting sacrifice?
I'm not sure if with children it meant their lives. Maybe the animals were to be given to the temple and not sacrificed either.
I know this is what the Presentation of the Lord (coming up February 2) was about, so I vaguely knew the first-born sons were to be given to God, I didn't know for what purpose, but definitely not sacrificed in the literal sense. I remembered the two turtledoves from the Gospel that were required to be given to the temple- sacrificed apparently.




 
Exodus 24

[1] Now he had said unto Moses, Come up to the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the Elders of Israel, and ye shall worship afar off. [2] And Moses himself alone shall come near to the LORD, but they shall not come near, neither shall the people go up with him.
Picture this scene if you can. God is on the top of Mount Sinai. The Hebrews are at the bottom. Then God tells Moses to "come up to YHWH." Remember from the previous chapter that God sent an Angel with His "Name in Him." YHWH is telling Moses to go up to YHWH. There are two YHWH's in this scene, not unlike the two YHWH's in the Sodom and Gomorrah scene in Genesis.

[7] After he took the book of the covenant, and read it in the audience of the people; who said, All that the LORD hath said, we will do, and be obedient. [8] Then Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold, the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these things.
Here is the formal ratification of the Mosaic Covenant, the wedding ceremony if you will. The people pledge to be obedient to the Law and Moses sprinkles the blood from the altar onto them. These being foreshadows of you being bought into the Nuevo Pacto, the New Covenant, by the sprinkling of Christ's blood.
 
Exodus 24


Picture this scene if you can. God is on the top of Mount Sinai. The Hebrews are at the bottom. Then God tells Moses to "come up to YHWH." Remember from the previous chapter that God sent an Angel with His "Name in Him." YHWH is telling Moses to go up to YHWH. There are two YHWH's in this scene, not unlike the two YHWH's in the Sodom and Gomorrah scene in Genesis.


Here is the formal ratification of the Mosaic Covenant, the wedding ceremony if you will. The people pledge to be obedient to the Law and Moses sprinkles the blood from the altar onto them. These being foreshadows of you being bought into the Nuevo Pacto, the New Covenant, by the sprinkling of Christ's blood.
Exodus 24

'9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up 10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. 11 But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank. 12 The Lord said to Moses, “Come up to me on the mountain'

I find it mind boggling that mere mortals actually saw God himself!

'the Lord called to Moses from within the cloud. 17 To the Israelites the glory of the Lord looked like a consuming fire on top of the mountain. 18;Then Moses entered the cloud as he went on up the mountain. And he stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights.'

I'm intrigued as to what this mountain/cloud experience was actually like for Moses.
 
In a Platonic or Stoic scheme, God should be "above" any and all emotions. This is not the God of the Bible. God is jealous for His people the same way that a husband is jealous for His wife. God is not the kind of husband that is cool with his wife being everybody else's wife too. His jealously is proof of His love.
Interesting. Yeah, I guess. Though I suppose if he truly loved us he would understand that and not react by slaughtering people. By that definition it's almost ok to respond to betryal with violence instead of the Christ like 'turning the other cheek.' Why didn't Christ act jealous when people rejected him and start wiping out his enemies?

Christ and God feel like different people to me. That's a hard aspect of getting my head around the trinity.
 
I know this is what the Presentation of the Lord (coming up February 2) was about, so I vaguely knew the first-born sons were to be given to God, I didn't know for what purpose, but definitely not sacrificed in the literal sense. I remembered the two turtledoves from the Gospel that were required to be given to the temple- sacrificed apparently.





It does strike me as a slightly chilling concept all the same. 'I spared your kids from death. Now they belong to me!'

I get that we all belong to God in a sense and we must all be redeemed in a way and I don't mind that language. Just the specificity of first born sons an exchange for the exodus first born things feels more threatening .
 
Yup. But not just some tribes. All tribes of people are evil and worthy of God's curse. If God were only just, He would destroy all the world like He did in the flood. But since He is also gracious, He saves a people for Himself and extends a common grace to all others.
This is a disturbing idea all the same, mate. I mean, if we are all evil and deserving of death why are some of us spared and some not? It is just who God feels like perescuting in certain moments?
 
In actuality, there is no god like YHWH. YHWH created the angels, the angels abandoned their original post, and then the heathen worshiped them as gods. You can say there are "other gods" but it depends on what you mean. Jethro comes closer to the truth when Moses tells him what God accomplished in the Exodus.
Interesting about angels. Are there still angels walking around on earth that we can't see protecting us?

Should I feel safe in the knowledge I have a guardian angel or is this just a cope?
 
Human faith can fluctuate. Demons, which all the pagan gods are, can trick people with supernatural signs.

There's only one God, but almost every tribe had its own major deity, along with lesser ones, they considered better and more powerful than those of others, and often attributed their successes and failures to having them sufficiently placated, people would use the outcomes of their attempted exploits to gauge the strength of their gods, so the ancients could be doubtful and tempted to switch their religious allegiances as the fortunes of their tribes changed.
Yeah. Good points.
Exodus 20


God gives His Holy Law, the Ten Commandments. The Law is literally too good for the people to hear. As Paul says, the letter kills. This is because the Law is meant to convict us of our sins. Remember, being spiritually dead = guilty. Convicting someone of sin = killing them. If you can hear the Ten Commandments and not feel convicted in your heart for having broken them all, then you do not know yourself and certainly do not know God. As John says, whoever says he has no sin deceives himself and the truth is not in him.


The Law forbids any idols, but it obligates an altar so that the people can sacrifice to atone for their sins. Man's tools would profane the altar because they are man-made, God does not accept human works. No nakedness can be exposed on the altar because nakedness is a symbol of sin, as opposed to the covering or clothing being a symbol of righteousness.
Not to stoke controversy too much but the Orthodox veneration of icons does seem to violate these words here:

Exodus 20:4–5 - “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness… You shall not bow down to them or serve them.”
 
Interesting. Yeah, I guess. Though I suppose if he truly loved us he would understand that and not react by slaughtering people. By that definition it's almost ok to respond to betryal with violence instead of the Christ like 'turning the other cheek.' Why didn't Christ act jealous when people rejected him and start wiping out his enemies?

Christ and God feel like different people to me. That's a hard aspect of getting my head around the trinity.
There's another verse where God says not to take revenge because "Vengeance is mine". The way I interpret this is that we aren't supposed to take revenge for our own personal vendettas since due to our flawed human nature we aren't able to punish wrongdoing in the righteous, just way. Rather we are to leave it to God since Him being all-knowing and having that 1,000,000,000 ft view from above, he is able to avenge wrongs in a way that aligns with justice while we have our own personal weaknesses and passions that would prevent us from doing so. God either directly intervenes like you see in the Scriptures or He delegates it to earthly authorities.
 
There's another verse where God says not to take revenge because "Vengeance is mine". The way I interpret this is that we aren't supposed to take revenge for our own personal vendettas since due to our flawed human nature we aren't able to punish wrongdoing in the righteous, just way. Rather we are to leave it to God since Him being all-knowing and having that 1,000,000,000 ft view from above, he is able to avenge wrongs in a way that aligns with justice while we have our own personal weaknesses and passions that would prevent us from doing so. God either directly intervenes like you see in the Scriptures or He delegates it to earthly authorities.
Indeed. Deuteronomy 32:35 “Vengeance is mine, and recompense…”

However I suppose humans can get frustrated if they expect or think they deserve to see vengeance and don't see it.

This continues in modern times where we imagine some architects of the issues in the world will be punished yet they just get wealthier and more comfortable visibly and we wonder if such divine justice exists.

Psalm 73:2–3: “But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled; I had nearly lost my foothold, because I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.”
 
This is a disturbing idea all the same, mate. I mean, if we are all evil and deserving of death why are some of us spared and some not? It is just who God feels like perescuting in certain moments?

You are touching on why Calvinism is the bleakest of worldviews (and incorrect). Godfather will have his say but understand that it is merely his/Calvinist perspective and not that of traditional Christianity.

Interesting about angels. Are there still angels walking around on earth that we can't see protecting us?

Should I feel safe in the knowledge I have a guardian angel or is this just a cope?

Everyone has a guardian angel assigned to them.

Yeah. Good points.

Not to stoke controversy too much but the Orthodox veneration of icons does seem to violate these words here:

Exodus 20:4–5 - “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness… You shall not bow down to them or serve them.”

The prohibition is against idol worship. Not literally against any visual depiction of things in heaven / earth / in the water. Otherwise drawing paintings of animals would be violating the commandment. God Himself in Exodus 25 commands that gold cherubim be fashioned on the Ark. Joshua 7:6, Joshua prostrates and bows before the Ark. In Numbers, Moses fashions a bronze serpent according to God's instructions which is raised up on a pole and heals those who are bitten by poisonous snakes. This was Godly and correct. However in 2 Kings 18:4 the bronze serpent is now worshipped as an idol (offered incense), and thus King Hezekiah righteously destroys it.
 
You are touching on why Calvinism is the bleakest of worldviews (and incorrect). Godfather will have his say but understand that it is merely his/Calvinist perspective and not that of traditional Christianity.
I'm not an expert on different denominations.

Can you explain exactly how this worldview is Calvinist and why it is problematic for you?

Cheers.
 
This is a disturbing idea all the same, mate. I mean, if we are all evil and deserving of death why are some of us spared and some not? It is just who God feels like perescuting in certain moments?
Bottom line, God is free to be forgiving or to be vengeful. If He is vengeful, He is still right because we are sinful and deserving of His wrath. If He is graceful, He is still right because Jesus died in our place. Despite the scoffers, there is nothing bleak about this. It’s just Biblical Christianity. Whether God destroys or saves, He is always right. If someone is condemned, it’s because of their sin. If someone is saved, it’s because of God’s unconditional love. Condemnation is always deserved, Grace is given even though it’s not deserved. It’s not symmetrical.

Interesting. Yeah, I guess. Though I suppose if he truly loved us he would understand that and not react by slaughtering people. By that definition it's almost ok to respond to betryal with violence instead of the Christ like 'turning the other cheek.' Why didn't Christ act jealous when people rejected him and start wiping out his enemies?
God’s love for His people involves destroying their enemies in order to save them. You could call this tribal. It would be more true to call it covenantal.

Christ and God feel like different people to me. That's a hard aspect of getting my head around the trinity.
Christ mainly communicates the Grace of God, especially during His earthly ministry. In the Old Testament, you are getting a double dose of the Law. God coming across as harsh under the Law is by design.
 
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I'm not an expert on different denominations.

Can you explain exactly how this worldview is Calvinist and why it is problematic for you?

Cheers.

This article summarizes some of the key distinguishers of Calvinism aka TULIP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points_of_Calvinism

To make an in-depth rebuttal of these from an Orthodox perspective would be a vast undertaking so as much as I would like to I can't do that at this time. The book Rock and Sand by Fr. Josiah Trenham is a good summary of Protestant denominations and highlights the contrasts between them and Orthodoxy, though the book is much broader than a refutation of Calvinism.

Generally speaking I would say that the underlying issue in Calvinism, is that they will take certain verses especially from Epistles, and autistically elevate a specific reading of those verses, to such a degree that it erroneously overrides the overwhelmingly clear message of the Gospel. Such as in the exchange earlier regarding free will. It's asinine to say that we are unable to exercise our free will towards God in any way (Calvinist position of total depravity), when Christ's ministry is almost entirely focused on teaching us how to make choices that bring us closer to God.

The Orthodox Christian teaching is that God has provided the means for our salvation through Christ, but we have the choice to co-operate through repentance and obeying God's commandments, or to refuse and suffer damnation. Calvinists teach that men have no power to co-operate or refuse, that it is all God unilaterally saving some and damning others, and they erroneously characterize the Orthodox position as 'man saving himself' which is indeed a heresy and false teaching.

Another counterexample is that in 1 Timothy 2, St. Paul writes that God desires all men to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. Calvinists will literally deny that God wants all men to be saved and twist this verse to mean something like "God wants all KINDS of men to be saved" which is crazy gymnastics.

So why, if this is what God desires, will it not come to pass? Because our free will to choose or reject God is itself a gift of love from God, if we did not have this ability then there would not actually be the possibility for the expression of love between men and God, between God and men. Creation would be God toying with automatons and arbitrarily causing some infinite pain and suffering and others eternal bliss without any causal connection. Hence why it is a bleak worldview.
 
Not to stoke controversy too much but the Orthodox veneration of icons does seem to violate these words here:

Exodus 20:4–5 - “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness… You shall not bow down to them or serve them.”
You could say that again.

Salvation by free-will also violates the words of the Gospel of John and Romans. Doesnt stop people from believing their idols unfortunately.
 
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