2025 Bible Study Group

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Hosea 14

1 Return, O Israel, to Yahweh your God, For you have stumbled in your iniquity. 3 Assyria will not save us; We will not ride on horses, Nor will we say again, ‘Our god,’ To the work of our hands

Israel is given a last chance to repent, which they don't heed. They will turn to Assyria, be conquered, then be dispersed by the Assyrians. Ten of the tribes will be lost in the diaspora. Nevertheless, God did not allow them to be utterly wiped out so that they would not all be killed.

4 I will heal their turning away from Me; I will love them freely, For My anger has turned away from them.

God's Law came to pass for Israel in their judgment by Assyria. God could've just left them there, but His Grace would not. Ultimately, this is looking forward to the New Covenant, where Christ will turn aside God's anger and bring them to faith in Christ; both in John 4, when the Samaritans come to faith when Jesus visits them, and in Acts 8, when Philip, Peter, and John preached the Gospel and baptized the Samaritans.

 

[Tippy]

Hosea 7


We have a poetry thread but I haven't posted in it because I would just post passages from the Bible, as cliche as that would be. The passages in the Bible are just too good. They're an acquired taste, but once you grasp the story and the themes in it then it all really clicks.

If Israel is the thesis of the OT then Egypt would be an antithesis. When the going got tough, the Israelites were tempted to go back to Egypt. This does not just mean that they were tempted to move back to the geographical area of Egypt, but that they were tempted to become Egyptians. God had taken them out of Egypt, but had He taken Egypt out of them?

This is the syncretistic tendency. They also would cut covenants with foreign nations, against God's Word, and the foreign nations would come back to oppress them, such as what the Israelites are doing here with Assyria. They eventually made a covenant with the Romans, only for the Romans to occupy them and eventually destroy them in due time.

There are many forms of Christian syncretism today. Some Christians are Platonists rather than Christians. Other Christians are into the Prosperity Gospel, which is a sort of syncretism between Americanism and Christianity. We must keep the faith pure.

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Okay, Hosea 7. I want to heal Israel, but "its sins are too great." "Sinful deeds everywhere." They are all "adulterers," always "aflame with lust." They are like an oven that "is kept hot while the baker is kneading the dough." Drinking. You know, lustful behavior. "Burning like an oven." Killing people. "Mingling with godless foreigners." Wow. "Worshipping fallen gods." "Their hair is grey." They are old and weak. Wow. The people of Israel have become like "silly witless doves." "Flying all over the place." But as they fly about, "I throw my net over them and bring them down like a bird from the sky." This is God. He is... Yeah, this is... He seems annoyed at this point. "Let them die for they have rebelled against me?" Doesn't sound very compassionate. I mean, where is the Jesus Christ forgiving sins aspect here? Like, "they sinned against me?" Now they're dead. They sit on their couches and "wail." God seems incredibly mad at this point. They are as useless as "a crooked bow." A crooked bow sounds like a pub in the middle of the West Midlands.

You're right this had some poetry but my question is why is God now a poet? How did that come about? And who exactly was able to transcribe the words of God like this? The prophets I guess but why are there no prophets today?

How can we be absolutely convinced this was indeed God and not just a very creative mind?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

How can we be absolutely convinced this was indeed God and not just a very creative mind?

Well, I don't think epistemic certainty is the goal, it's actually an idol. By faith, the Scriptures are sufficient for you. God's Word is too contrary to men for men to have come up with it. They hate God's Law, it's too tough and too strict. But then they hate God's Grace, it's too easy and too free.

A creative mind would look something more like what I touched on in one of the later chapters. Idols are very creative, philosophy is creative, poetry is creative, and they all reinforce false religion, with man at the top, God at the bottom.

 

[Tippy]

Well, I don't think epistemic certainty is the goal, it's actually an idol. By faith, the Scriptures are sufficient for you. God's Word is too contrary to men for men to have come up with it. They hate God's Law, it's too tough and too strict. But then they hate God's Grace, it's too easy and too free.

A creative mind would look something more like what I touched on in one of the later chapters. Idols are very creative, philosophy is creative, poetry is creative, and they all reinforce false religion, with man at the top, God at the bottom.

You all all creativity reinforces false religion?

So do you think it's all demonic?

What about creative works with Christian themes/ideas? And in a way aren't creators acting out a kind of grace in their behaviour since usually it takes a kind of sacrifice to create? Or is this more them trying to be mini Gods and putting themselves at the center?

It seems even with Christ centered work (let's say Dostoevsky or CS lewis) there must be a bit of a pull between both the ego drive of recognition and success even if the novels are full of references/analogies to Christ. How can this be reconciled?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

You all all creativity reinforces false religion?

So do you think it's all demonic?

What about creative works with Christian themes/ideas? And in a way aren't creators acting out a kind of grace in their behaviour since usually it takes a kind of sacrifice to create? Or is this more them trying to be mini Gods and putting themselves at the center?

It seems even with Christ centered work (let's say Dostoevsky or CS lewis) there must be a bit of a pull between both the ego drive of recognition and success even if the novels are full of references/analogies to Christ. How can this be reconciled?

No, I don't think all creativity is demonic. My point was that people use their creativity to fashion for themselves idols, and the idols serve a purpose to reinforce the culture that created them. The Bible is different because it was not given by God for this purpose. It is not meant to worship men or human societies, but to tear them down and reveal God to us.

A lot of what passes for Christianity is no exception to the idolatrous tendency. How often have you seen Christian images, traditions, etc, elevated to the same level as the divinely inspired Word of God? Can't speak for C.S Lewis, but I don't get the sense he'd consider his own books to be on the same level as the Bible.

 

[Tippy]

Hosea 8


Israel had made two golden calves in their idolatry, harkening back to the one they made at Sinai. In idolatry, art functionally becomes theology. The nations surrounding Israel had excelled in image making, idols made of gold, silver, or lesser materials. The artwork of the idol would emphasize what the idol was being worshiped for. Idols of female deities accentuated the sexual body parts, since the people valued fertility. The calf was an image of power. The logic in the Bible says that if a craftsman made it, if it is art, then it is not God, it doesn't represent Him. The Greek religion had it's idols too, but their idolatry really excelled in the art of poetry. Poets such as Hesiod, Homer, and others were largely responsible for shaping the theology of the ancient Greeks. When the Greek philosophers came, they still practiced idolatry but of another form. They worshiped man's reason and man's language. That was their theology. In America, our art, our movies, also functions as our theology since it glorifies the idols we worship, such as sex, money, power, and self-sufficiency.


I love this line. God wrote for them ten thousand precepts of His Law, yet the people account it as foreign. God has never been mute, but men have always been deaf. The wicked generation looks for a sign, and all along, God has given His Word so that they would know the truth and know Him. God's Word is there. What more do they need?

Hosea 8, basically just God saying he's gonna destroy all these people who went against him and made sacrifices and built carts. What I'm trying to understand is, how is this the same God that also brought Christ to the gift? Forgive everybody. Why did forgiveness not seem an option in these times?

 

[Tippy]

Hosea 9


As Israel collectively functions as a priest, so does Ephraim function as a prophet. But Ephraim is no prophet, but a fool, a clown. They are not inspired by the Spirit of Wisdom but the spirit of unholy madness. The difference between prophets and fools, wisdom and madness is a matter of perspective, but God’s perspective is the only one that counts. I would rather be called a clown by clown world than be called a clown by God.


I highlight this passage because I want you to see how these ideas are coupled together. If God remembers your iniquity, He will indeed punish. But if your sins are in the sea of God’s forgetfulness, He has forgiven indeed.


Israel was greatly loved by God, the apple of His eye. They were fruitful and they multiplied. But they loved the Baals, abominable and detestable in God’s sight. They became what they worshiped, and the Beloved became the detested


At various times, God’s glory departed from Israel, Ichabod. The denial of His presence is punishment enough. Jesus said “This is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” So what is the departure of God but eternal death? You saw this theme in John 8:59: “Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.” How ironic it is for the Lord to depart from the temple, and how damning for those He hid Himself from. Even now, does the Lord hide Himself from you or do you know Him?

Hosea 10


God tells Israel that He will remove their golden calf and they will mourn for it. Then He says this. This line is picked up in the Book of Revelation. God’s Wrath is no trifle to be mocked. If men were given a glimpse of Hell, they would no longer sin. But they have been given many glimpses, they just refuse to see so that they may go on sinning. You know that the Lord Jesus experienced deep anguish and fear on the night of His trial. Why? Because He knows better than any of us what the wages for sin are. If we were not under the cross and in the infinite mercy of God in Christ Jesus, then we too would wish to be under the mountains to be shielded from God’s Wrath.

Hosea 9 has some of the darkest language in it. People of Israel are struck down, their roots are dried up, they're abandoned, and if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children. That's a lot. Child slaughtering God is indeed intense.

, Oh, thy wickedness began with Gilgal, I don't understand that. And he's saying, Israel become as beautiful as Tyre. That they became vile, they started worshipping other gods. I also don't understand what it means, that things my people do are as depraved as what they did in Gibeah. Long ago, what's Gibeah?

Answers from my research:

Gilgal - First camp of Israelites and symbol of new beginning but they set up idols there

Tyre- A coastal city of Phonecians - land of luxury that became place of Pagan worship (apparently this is in modern day Lebanon)

Gibeah - we actually studied this recently and that was the horrific almost horror movie esque cutting up of Levite's concubine after she is raped all night

10:

Now, as I can, the Lord's judgment against Israel. I thought he'd been judging Israel for the last three chapters, but... Building has been altered. The hearts of people of Bethel are guilty and they must be punished. The Lord's going to smash everything down.

Is God still like this today? Is he still thinking, I'm going to smash all these people up, or does he change his mentality today? Thriving prophets seem to have eaten the fruit of lies. It's almost seems like an Eden callback? Apologies my ability to make references across Bible is pretty shallow.

 

[Tippy]

Hosea 11


When we think God as The Father, we tend to bundle His Fatherhood with His role as Creator. What if I told you that isn't very biblically accurate? When you read the creation narrative in Genesis, nowhere is God described as a Father. In fact, it isn't until you get to the Redemption narrative in Exodus that God comes to be known as a Father by His covenant people. If God is the Father, then who is the son? In Exodus, it is Israel. And that is what Hosea is picking up on here.


So the Fatherhood of God is not a broad, universal term, but a particular, covenantal one. See here in Amos 3:

The logic is clear. If Israel is the son and God is their Father, the only people He's known, then He will punish them as a father chastises a son. Unless you want to catch a bullet, you do not go around punishing other people's kids, but if you love yours, you most certainly punish them when they do wrong. What father doesn't chastise a son whom he loves?


For those who want to stick their head in the sand, ignore the Hebrew manuscripts, and only read the Septuagint, Matthew does not quote the Septuagint here but he quotes the Hebrew. Matthew, being carried by the Holy Spirit, makes this point. God did call His son Israel out of Egypt in the Exodus as in Hosea, but for Jesus to go to Egypt and be brought out is to signify something about Jesus. Israel is the son, but Jesus is the True Son, He is the True Israel, the Israel who never went wrong. Israel was given the Mosaic Covenant for a time, and if they were in that covenant then they were bnei brit, sons of the covenant, but Jesus was given the Eternal Covenant, being the Eternal Son to the Father. May you come to know God as Father through Jesus Christ.


These are God's representatives, the Prophets, calling for Israel to return to covenant fidelity, which Israel did not heed.


Here, Israel is described as being like a baby to God. He carried them in His arms, He taught them how to walk, He knelt down to feed them. When they were powerless to do anything for themselves, God was powerful to save them. Regarding the cord imagery, if you are in Christ, then consider there to be cords and tethers that connect you to Him.


This is exactly what happened. Assyria conquered the northern kingdom of Israel and dispersed the tribes. Though they could not conquer the southern kingdom of Judah as recorded in Isaiah, because God's angel killed 185,000 of their army in one night. The whirling sword is emblematic of God's wrath, as you saw in Genesis.

Hosea 11, God's love for Israel. When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. But the more they called, the more they went away from me. Again, okay, they burnt idols. God tried to love them. Tried to feed them. They didn't listen. They don't repent.

- The 'son' here being the rebellious nation of Israel. I do think it's a bit repeating the same point over and over again that they were assholes for rebelling and deserve punishing but I guess sin IS just annoying and repetitive so it does need hammering home.

A sword will flash in the city - apparently this means the Assyrian invasion soon to destroy Israel

How can I give you up Ephraim? - had to research what this meant but basically God has to destroy this place but might not want to

How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim?

Had to research this as well as cities that were destroyed with Sodom and Gomorrah. I am struggling with the idea of seeing this God as just and merciful. He seems rageful and unmerciful.

'I am God, and not man - the Holy One among you'

God is saying that he's not like a vengeful human though to be honest he does read like one at times

'They will follow the lord...he will roar like a lion...his children will come trembling from the West'

Eventually I suppose the people will come back. In this time I guess the Israelites and later all of humanity to Christ?

Takeaway - it's great that there is a knowledge people will come back to God I just don't fully get why everything has to be destroyed. Well, I don't know whether this is divine justice. I have to reconcile this by thinking God works in mysterious ways especially at this phase in history.

One argument I've heard used is that God is a parent and in these early years he was stricter but once humanity progressed he developed a more uhmmm...gentle discipine style.

I suppose I get that God wants us to do good and his will and is mad if we don't. It's comforting to know that through Christ we can be forgiven instead of massacred like in these times.

 

[Tippy]

No, I don't think all creativity is demonic. My point was that people use their creativity to fashion for themselves idols, and the idols serve a purpose to reinforce the culture that created them. The Bible is different because it was not given by God for this purpose. It is not meant to worship men or human societies, but to tear them down and reveal God to us.

A lot of what passes for Christianity is no exception to the idolatrous tendency. How often have you seen Christian images, traditions, etc, elevated to the same level as the divinely inspired Word of God? Can't speak for C.S Lewis, but I don't get the sense he'd consider his own books to be on the same level as the Bible.

I guess so. Someone posted about this recently in the Roosh thread mentioning he quit writing due to seeing it as a demonic influence. But even so he wrote about religious themes and a travelogue of visiting churches but in the end I guess he saw even that as serving his own ego?

I think the intent of creators is always a myriad of factors but ultimately God has endowed individuals with gifts and talents and even interests in certain things. It seems a different type of self-neglect to not implement those things. Ideally in a way that services God. Does this mean everyone in a band should only create Christian music?

Recently I was watching Martin Scorsese's film Mean Streets, which is directly about gangsters turning away from the church. The soundtrack had a lot of girl group tracks and it made me think about love songs of the 60s in particular. Although the lyrics in these tracks were often yearning for a missing person (mr.postman or my 'baby') what they're truly about is an emptiness that is not meant to be filled by romantic love but by spiritual union with Christ. Are the creators even aware of it? Probably not but it's also what gives the music such a haunting power at times. In that sense, I think a lot of music that's no directly spiritual has a similar power. Is it subversive for this reason?

What I'm trying to say is that people might be pursuing worldly gain but in the process revealing spiritual truths.

 

[Gazza]

Hosea 11, God's love for Israel. When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. But the more they called, the more they went away from me. Again, okay, they burnt idols. God tried to love them. Tried to feed them. They didn't listen. They don't repent.

- The 'son' here being the rebellious nation of Israel. I do think it's a bit repeating the same point over and over again that they were assholes for rebelling and deserve punishing but I guess sin IS just annoying and repetitive so it does need hammering home.

A sword will flash in the city - apparently this means the Assyrian invasion soon to destroy Israel

How can I give you up Ephraim? - had to research what this meant but basically God has to destroy this place but might not want to

How can I make you like Admah? How can I set you like Zeboiim?

Had to research this as well as cities that were destroyed with Sodom and Gomorrah. I am struggling with the idea of seeing this God as just and merciful. He seems rageful and unmerciful.

'I am God, and not man - the Holy One among you'

God is saying that he's not like a vengeful human though to be honest he does read like one at times

'They will follow the lord...he will roar like a lion...his children will come trembling from the West'

Eventually I suppose the people will come back. In this time I guess the Israelites and later all of humanity to Christ?

Takeaway - it's great that there is a knowledge people will come back to God I just don't fully get why everything has to be destroyed. Well, I don't know whether this is divine justice. I have to reconcile this by thinking God works in mysterious ways especially at this phase in history.

One argument I've heard used is that God is a parent and in these early years he was stricter but once humanity progressed he developed a more uhmmm...gentle discipine style.

I suppose I get that God wants us to do good and his will and is mad if we don't. It's comforting to know that through Christ we can be forgiven instead of massacred like in these times.

I always got a clearer perspective of God almighty when I looked upon His ways and compared them to my relationship with my own 3 children.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Long ago, what's Gibeah?

Gibeah - we actually studied this recently and that was the horrific almost horror movie esque cutting up of Levite's concubine after she is raped all night

Thriving prophets seem to have eaten the fruit of lies. It's almost seems like an Eden callback?

Excellent callbacks.

Is God still like this today? Is he still thinking, I'm going to smash all these people up, or does he change his mentality today?

Yes, but with some caveats. The Gospel has gone out to the whole world and so God extends much patience for the sake of the Elect, however, He is just as vengeful and Law-enforcing as He was in the Old Testament, He still hates sin just as much. As Romans 1 says, the wrath of God is being revealed against all ungodliness.

Recently I was watching Martin Scorsese's film Mean Streets, which is directly about gangsters turning away from the church. The soundtrack had a lot of girl group tracks and it made me think about love songs of the 60s in particular. Although the lyrics in these tracks were often yearning for a missing person (mr.postman or my 'baby') what they're truly about is an emptiness that is not meant to be filled by romantic love but by spiritual union with Christ. Are the creators even aware of it? Probably not but it's also what gives the music such a haunting power at times. In that sense, I think a lot of music that's no directly spiritual has a similar power. Is it subversive for this reason?

What I'm trying to say is that people might be pursuing worldly gain but in the process revealing spiritual truths.

Good movie, great sountrack. Great era for music in general. Oftentimes, I don't think creators are fully aware of their own message that they're putting out, but other ones seem to be more acutely aware of how they're coming across. I'll give an example to your point: superheroes are a big cultural artifact. The reason they appeal to people is because they appeal to people's need for a savior. That's why I like to use them as an analogy, I think they can be helpful in pointing out people's need for the only real savior, Jesus Christ. Where people go astray is when they elevate the artwork to the same level as the Truth. They don't want to hear about Jesus, they just want to live in the fantasy. Strange, since the Truth is better than the fiction.

 

[Tippy]

Hosea 12


This seems to confirm that Jacob did indeed wrestle with God Himself, not just a servant angel. As beautiful as Gustave Dore's drawing of Jacob wrestling with the angel is, it's not biblically accurate.

Hosea 13


Death in Scripture does not always refer to literal death but guilt. The Ephraimites did not drop dead the second they worshiped Baal, and neither did Adam drop dead the second he ate from the tree, but both broke the covenant, sinned, and became guilty; they "died." If death = guilt, then life = innocence, and this is indeed how the Scriptures speak in many areas.


God is the only savior. There are no others, no co-saviors, nothing. Like Acts 4, there is no other name given under heaven by which we must be saved than the name of Jesus Christ.

Hosea 12:

Yes, lots of references to Jacob (name changed to Israel after wrestling with God) so I guess this means his story is analagous to the current situation of Israelites. Jacob tried to be clever but eventually had to submit to the will of God.

Hosea 13:

A hard passage to take is the ending:

'
The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open.”'

I guess we don't see so much of God's loving/forgiving side in this chapter.

It's interesting you mentioned that sin=guilt=death. How often should we read it literally vs not literally? Because in many cases it does appear to be the case that after sinning people are indeed put to death as is to come about with the Assyrian invasion.

 

[Tippy]

Hosea 14


Israel is given a last chance to repent, which they don't heed. They will turn to Assyria, be conquered, then be dispersed by the Assyrians. Ten of the tribes will be lost in the diaspora. Nevertheless, God did not allow them to be utterly wiped out so that they would not all be killed.


God's Law came to pass for Israel in their judgment by Assyria. God could've just left them there, but His Grace would not. Ultimately, this is looking forward to the New Covenant, where Christ will turn aside God's anger and bring them to faith in Christ; both in John 4, when the Samaritans come to faith when Jesus visits them, and in Acts 8, when Philip, Peter, and John preached the Gospel and baptized the Samaritans.

Hosea 14

'
Return, Israel, to the Lord your God.
Your sins have been your downfall!
2Take words with you
and return to the Lord.
Say to him:
“Forgive all our sins
and receive us graciously,
that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

- This is indeed does seem a precursor to being forgiven of sin through Christ. It's also a much needed breather and hopeful ending after what has been a particularly dark and brutal section of the Old Testament. But it contrasts effecively with earlier passages because it shows that God has this tender or caring side. I think it's important to understand the anger and rage as well so we don't just keep on letting ourselves off for sinning.

It actually makes me think about the opening scene of Mean Streets where Harvey Keitel is in the church saying that he confesses his sins but just doesn't feel anything. I think we need to feel the wrongness of sin and how much is displeases God alongside the knowledge that he loves us and will forgive us. It's all too easy to think 'well, we'll be forgiven so let's just keep sinning anyway.'

 

[Tippy]

I always got a clearer perspective of God almighty when I looked upon His ways and compared them to my relationship with my own 3 children.

That's an interesting angle. Can you elabrote a bit more on that?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

It's interesting you mentioned that sin=guilt=death. How often should we read it literally vs not literally? Because in many cases it does appear to be the case that after sinning people are indeed put to death as is to come about with the Assyrian invasion.

Always look at the context. In those examples I gave, literal death didn't happen when they sinned, but they became transgressors, then literal death followed. Maybe a way to think of it is this: if you're guilty then you're as good as dead. Guilty people get the death penalty, it's only a matter of time. Sin => guilt = death. You saw in chapter 6 how God "killed" by words and "hewed the Israelites into pieces" by the prophets. The prophets weren't running around chopping everybody up, they were indicting them as being guilty of breaking the Law. Then the Assyrians came and chopped everybody up. There is a Jewish proverb that encapsulates this idea, "He who criticizes his neighbor, it is as if he killed him." Even though this is not from the Bible, it is very much rooted in Biblical thinking.

It actually makes me think about the opening scene of Mean Streets where Harvey Keitel is in the church saying that he confesses his sins but just doesn't feel anything. I think we need to feel the wrongness of sin and how much is displeases God alongside the knowledge that he loves us and will forgive us. It's all too easy to think 'well, we'll be forgiven so let's just keep sinning anyway.'

Very good. If you do not know what it means to be guilty, then you will not know what it means to be innocent. If you do not know what it is to be condemned, then neither will you know what it is to be justified. God's Law tears you down so that God's Grace can build you up.

 

[Tippy]

All good points. Are you really as good as dead if guilty if you feel awful and are repenting? Is guilt itself the punishment or a precursor to it?

Also, just wondering which book will we be reading next?

Switching to NT I take it?

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

All good points. Are you really as good as dead if guilty if you feel awful and are repenting? Is guilt itself the punishment or a precursor to it?

Also, just wondering which book will we be reading next?

Switching to NT I take it?

I would say condemnation itself is the punishment and what follows is the literal playing out of that condemnation. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Feel sorry over your sin, continue repenting, and above all, trust that Christ died to save you from your sins and that He reconciled you to God. Feeling sorry when you sin is not a sign that you are still under condemnation, but that God is working in you. Continue to repent since will you still sin in your weakness. Trust in Christ, you do not have to live your life feeling guilty and awful, you can live in joy and peace through Him.

Also, just wondering which book will we be reading next?

Switching to NT I take it?

Jude. Starting tonight. It's only 1 chapter so take some time with it.

 

[Gazza]

That's an interesting angle. Can you elabrote a bit more on that?

As a parent you have a love for your children that simply can’t be put in to words, it’s that vast.
I believe God has that same love for us but it is multiplied to a point that we’ll never understand.
It doesn’t matter how many times your children fall, you know you’ll always, always be there to help them up.
Whenever they say or do something for you that pleases you, you never forget it.
When they need correction, it’s painful to hand it out but you know it’s good for them for the “long games sake”.
But I think it’s probably best summed up in one of my favourite parts of the bible, the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32).
Hope that helps.

 

[Tippy]

I would say condemnation itself is the punishment and what follows is the literal playing out of that condemnation. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Feel sorry over your sin, continue repenting, and above all, trust that Christ died to save you from your sins and that He reconciled you to God. Feeling sorry when you sin is not a sign that you are still under condemnation, but that God is working in you. Continue to repent since will you still sin in your weakness. Trust in Christ, you do not have to live your life feeling guilty and awful, you can live in joy and peace through Him.


Jude. Starting tonight. It's only 1 chapter so take some time with it.

Ok cool

I want to express my gratitude to this thread and all the posters for motivating me to read the Bible more regularly. Even if I have been a bit of a prodigal son myself by struggling with the schedule.

 

[GodfatherPartTwo]

Jude 1

1 Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ, and brother of James

Who was Jude in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

Who was Jude in the Bible? How is understanding the what the Bible says about Jude valuable to our spiritual growth?

www.gotquestions.org

Here's a good article on the author. Jude isn't just some random guy who's letter happens to be before Revelation, he is in the NT literature.

3 Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you exhorting that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Normally, faith is used to refer to the trust that you place in Christ but Jude uses it here in a slightly different way; it is a body of doctrine that was handed down once for all to the saints. "The faith" is not a "living, breathing tradition" that goes on forever and changes through the musings of individuals or church councils; by the time of Jude, it was already handed down once for all time. This "faith" would refer to the kerygma, or in other words, the Gospel: that Jesus is the Christ and that by believing you may have salvation in His name.

4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Jude is very likely referring to the proto-Gnostics, the same people that the Apostle John rebukes in 1 John. These proto-Gnostics would seem to be professing Christians, but would live out a different practice and secretly hold Gnostic beliefs and oral traditions that are contrary to the Scripture. Since they considered the material world to be evil and vain, and only the spiritual world to be good and eternal, they would engage in fornication; and fornication, homosexuality, and pederasty were rampant in the Greek culture, part of which Gnosticism was a syncretistic blend of. They would presume on God's free grace and do these things, that is what Jude means by them "turning the grace of our God into sensuality." Like the Jews who "praise God with their lips, but their hearts are far from Him" these Gnostics would profess Jesus but deny "our only Master and Lord" by their actions.

I want to do a word study on the words 'Master' and 'Lord'. 'Lord' functions in the New Testament much in the same way as 'Adonai' and 'Yahweh' do in the Old Testament. In fact, Lord is used as a gloss for Yahweh when the NT cites the OT. This is the Covenant Lord, and for the NT writers to refer to Jesus as Lord shows that they believed Jesus was Yahweh, the God of the covenant of Israel. 'Master' is a translation of the Greek word despotes, which is where we get our word for despot. Despot has taken on negative connotations in our modern context but when the Bible refers to God as Despot or Master, such as in Acts 4, it has to do with God as the Sovereign Lord over everything, creation, times, peoples, events, etc.