10 Lost Tribes (We Wuz Kangs Bruh)
- Thread starter KulturedKaveman
- Start date
I wouldn’t go that far but here’s a tidbit I find interesting. The Danites - tribe of Dan - had the coast of modern Israel around Tel Aviv and Haifa. They were allied with the Phoenicians. When Assyria invaded, some Danites probably escaped and we 100% know the Phoenicians had trade posts in Britain and Ireland. In fact, some archeologists think there’s a link between Stonehenge and the standing stones found all over Canaan.
To make things more interesting, in Celtic mythology there was a shorter, darker people already living in Ireland when the Celts arrived. The Tuatha De Danan (hmmm) they were more technologically advanced than the celts and had stronger magic.
Main reason I started this thread is Evangelicals are driving me nuts. Modern Jews are a weird European offshoot of a religion founded by a remanent of the Hasmonean faction. Bible says Abraham will be the father of many nations, not the father of the Jews. After studying this topic, modern Kurds and to an extent Irish Lebanese and Tunisians can claim “seed of Abraham” too but they’re mostly Muslim and Christian these days.
Funny thing is that these sort of theories were created by Protestants and specifically by Protestants that their time would have been considered the evangelicals of their day. The book about Anglo Saxons and Israelites was that was posted above was written a Methodist pastor. Back then the Methodists were the ones that were having revival meetings, altar calls, open air preaching, promoting "clean living" and engaging in other activities that we usually see associate with what evangelicals do. I don't think I've seen any sort of Catholic or Orthodox figures with authority to teach (including the ones that are considered to be 'based') ever espouse these ideas.
I also would not say that ALL the lost tribes are Saxons, but some of them seem to be. There is strong evidence for this, including historical records from the Persians and others, identifying them as Saks, Saksa (from Isaac), and such. Apparantly they traveled west between the Black and Caspian Seas and around the eastern side of the Caspian, and became known as the Scythians and later the Germanic tribes. I'm simplifying greatly here. As for who is the Seed of Abraham, that was clearly Christ, and by extension all followers of Christ (His Church) are heirs to the Seed of Abraham. We see this is Galatians 3:16 and 3:29, for example.
To be fair I’m not saying white white people. My money goes on the Kurds and what was the ancient Carthaginians. But we know what happened to the Carthaginians so who knows who’s a descendant of Carthage these days. The ancient Carthaginians even practiced the religion the prophets railed against. It was a factor in why Rome, a pagan society btw unrelated to the Hebrews, put the Carthaginians in their cross hairs. I just find it interesting that Ethiopia, The Roman Empire, and Ireland became centers of gravity for Christianity and not say India, Yemen, Nubia, and Iran where Christianity did have seeds planted, but they never took off. Lost tribes bloodlines probably had something to do with it.
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There are some verses where Jesus talks about His "lost sheep" who will know His voice. The verses are vague and make me wonder if He is referring to the ancient Hebrews who "wandered off" but who still have Abraham's promise in their cultural memory.
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Don't these verses about other lost sheep not of this fold refer to the gentiles?
Or are the gentiles the lost tribes, or do the lost tribes make up part of what are called "gentiles"?. I'm not sure. At least that is the sense I get.
I think the lost tribes probably interbred with others around them, and by the time of Christ a large number of people in the ancient world would have had some small portion of their bloodline dating back to the lost tribes. However, for the most part, I think the various gentile nationalities in the Roman empire are separate from the lost tribes. Culturally, I think they were entirely heathen before encountering the gospel.
The answer is yes. Here’s a thought experiment. Assyria curb stomped Samara what, 700 BC? Imagine you get some Samaritan dude who marries an Assyrian gal in northern Iraq where he was deported to. One generation that half Assyrian half lets say Reuben kid marries a Median. Before you know it, you have a middle easterner. All before 600 BC. The house of Israel was lost to the world. Many people are descendants and don’t know it. That’s why Jesus says lost sheep. And if you read Exodus, anyone can make a covenant with “he who is” it’s not exclusively blood based. It’s why I see the temple as old covenant Christianity. It wasn’t based on “is your mother a descendant of a guy who holds Judaism as a faith?” Anyone could approach Gods altar.
There were even Egyptians who said “their god is god” and left on the exodus with the Hebrews.
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Yes, it was a feature at that time in Protestant circles and its offshoots. See the Mormons, who indulged in the fake mythology of lost tribes, with their belief that native Americans were part of them.
For Eastern Europeans though there’s a kernel of truth though, it’s not a complete fabrication without archeology like Mormons. When they’ve dug up plenty water troughs and evidence for stables at Meggido- this shows they had horses. Plus the Tel Dan stele. After the Exile of 11/13 tribes, some probably ended up in Northern Iraq and this started a great northward migration into the Eurasian Steppe where the exiled descendants and the Scythian peoples blended. This is why the Orthodox Church is so rooted where it is.
Nobody asks why Jews and Orthodox Christians are pretty much from the same corner of the world. We both have a VERY similar mythology about ourselves, but the Orthodox Christians are descendants of a combination of native forest steppe peoples (Scythians Slavs, Germanic Tribes, Central Asians) and a northward Israelite migration. Jews are a descendent of the same only a much later Israelite migration that only involves the tribe of Judah (hence the name Jews) coming from the west. There was a pit stop on the Rhine before heading east.
Orthodoxy was largely introduced to this Israelite / Steppe People mix by Vladimir the Great of Kyiv via the Byzantines aka Romans. Judaism came later. I’m of the school of thought Judaism is an unaligned 3rd way that naturally developed on the fault lines of Christianity and Islam, but the people are pretty much the same. Why I don’t buy evangelical nonsense. I’m like uh… we’re kind of Children of Abraham too if you know the history. Just the Christians are one generation removed. The Jews of that corner of the planet have a similar ethnogenesis but they’re two generations removed from the Israelites. The West has little to anything to do with the Israelites. Maybe through Carthage?
Maybe time to start? I mean Anglo Saxons idk - maybe Carthaginian slaves were bought there under Rome and there’s some Hebrew descendants but anyone know what the reproductive rate of slaves was back then? I know in the Roman system kids of slaves were free and probably blended in with Roman society.
But the northward migration after the fall of the northern kingdom is definitely a thing though and north of Assyria is the Caucasus and the heart of the Orthodox Faith.
I thought Orthodoxy in general is pretty resistant to these big changes in their teachings. There's a reason why it was the Protestants that had these sort of theories since the nature of Protestantism means it's more amenable to innovations. If Orthodoxy never mentioned any of these teachings in the past 2000 years then it seems extremely unlikely it'll start now. Orthodox laymen can have their own theories but ultimately they have to submit to church teachings.
The size of that migrant tribe Israelite population must have been minute compared to the local Saxon or eastern European populations already present, and the whole tribe probably didn't caravan together but were dispersed. 2000 years ago the Roman Empire alone had 55 million people. A large population of refugees couldn't cross half a continent unmolested EU-style, it was most likely made of small parties who spread themselves around and those that did find refuge and weren't killed, enslaved or starved melted into local populations.
Those are the basic practical historical elements that these theories don't take into consideration.
Of course this is a layman’s theory haha, not official.
But those historic elements are not necessarily so because we saw something similar happen with Germans and Poles in the full light of modern history and not in some distant Iron Age. The caravanning did happen in the 1600s 1700s.
The Steppe is wild and vast and would have been the edge of the Assyrian empire. It’s also the edge of Poland, Hungary, and what was the Holy Roman Empire. Most people think the steppes Cossacks were only Eastern Slavs. This is not true at all. Many Poles and Germans tried their hand in the wild lands. Is it a stretch to believe 2000 years before the Cossacks Israelites who were deported to the edge of Assyria didn’t do the same?
It's a long way from the edge of the Assyrian empire to the Russian steppe, through long ranges of high mountains.
In any case, people moved around a lot even back then, especially during the Roman empire which was the first modern globalist empire. You had communities of immigrants and travelers in the main cities, as well as large populations of slaves from distant lands. These foreigners blended in and melted into the local population.
In any case, people moved around a lot even back then, especially during the Roman empire which was the first modern globalist empire. You had communities of immigrants and travelers in the main cities, as well as large populations of slaves from distant lands. These foreigners blended in and melted into the local population.
This actually makes a ton of sense. They get curb stomped and seeing where the heart of Assyria is they were probably put to work there. The steppes are only on the other side of those mountains up top. By the time the hypothetical second exodus happened from the Assyrian heartland they were all pagan anyway. It’s kind of poetry if you think about it. Assyria fell to a mixed Babylonian and Median army. Those destined to accept the gospel were set free to cross those mountains. Meanwhile Judah was getting taken to Babylon by the same people who set the old guard free. It would take the Byzantines to bring Christianity to the descendants of the 11/13 tribes in what’s now the Ukraine. I’m trying to figure out what happened to Esther and St. Paul’s tribe - Benjamin. No evidence or records. The Jews or Judah, would be forced into the same lands as their Israelite-ish cousins after they got banished from the west. The problem is Judahs faith has become so distorted by 1000 AD it was unrecognizable by the OT Temple standards. The manmade works based religion that is Judaism only succeeded as a third way at the fault lines of Islam and Christianity. Look at where Judaism was big before the self proclaimed state:It's a long way from the edge of the Assyrian empire to the Russian steppe, through long ranges of high mountains.
In any case, people moved around a lot even back then, especially during the Roman empire which was the first modern globalist empire. You had communities of immigrants and travelers in the main cities, as well as large populations of slaves from distant lands. These foreigners blended in and melted into the local population.
Golden Horde vs The Russ - modern Ukraine
Almoravids / Almohads vs the pre-Spanish states - Spain
Axum vs the newly converted Arab Tribes - Yemen
Basically imagine this - you want to just sell stuff and stay out of the wars of the Muslim and Christian principalities. Judaism which originated in 500s modern day Iraq isn’t part of some biblical prophecy at all. It’s a 3rd way that doesn’t take sides. I feel most evangelicals will think differently if they knew this.
I find this whole subject interesting because there’s an evangelical church next to my church that flies an Israeli flag, and I find their claims to be well… self proclaimed. There is no Judeo-Christian tradition is basically my message. Judaism came about when Justinian was Emperor and Christianity was well established. And when Jew worship happens in certain Christian circles it’s kind of spiritual usurpation if you think about it.
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