Hitler versus Rothschild: the Logistics and Background of World War Two

Some interesting discussions here.

After doing some research of my own, I've developed a thesis on the topic of why this thread is at post #221, with over 2 million words... and this is just the beginning:

 
You have trouble understanding hypotheticals, don't you? I'm talking about why invading as Germany did was foolish and the point sails right over your head.

I perfectly understand hypotheticals, but yours are unrealistic and ignorant of actual historical details. These events have been lied about more than any other history for very specific reasons, so unless you're willing to spend the time understanding the explicit economic, linguistic, religious, and ethnic regionalisms and altercations that were exploited by international powers, you do not know the origins of this war.

It doesn't matter if France or England responded to the USSR, although there was a good chance they would have (you know nothing), because international opinion would have been completely on Hitler's side had Hitler come to Poland's rescue in response.

You see this is again proof of how much you just don't know about England and France's intentions with Germany going back even before WWI. England and France were absolutely never going to allow a strong continental power is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part. The idea is intolerable to the British Empire. The events leading up to both World Wars were orchestrated by a global financial syndicate designed to keep continental powers fragmented and weak. England, in particular, under its jewish dominion, has a long history of preventing any single nation from gaining dominance on the European continent.

You don't understand how the jews and their servants caused WWI, and you don't understand what they intended to force upon the continent before that war began. Do you know who was in the train car in Versailles? Do you know who set the conditions for Germany to live as a broken vassal in eternal financial slavery? You’re ignoring the fact that the international system was designed to keep Germany in check and prevent any resurgence of self-determination.

After WWI both nations were deeply entrenched in maintaining the status quo dictated by the Treaty of Versailles. England was willing to make economic and military deals with the USSR, but their goal was never to support the rise of a powerful German state. England and France were wholly committed to ensuring Germany remained weak, economically broken, and politically divided. They would never have stood by Hitler because they were more interested in enforcing the conditions of Versailles, which included the dismemberment of Germany in many regions not just what the new state of Poland took. Poland literally became a country on November 18th, 1918.

The Poles were an ethnicity in partitions of the Russian, Prussian, Austrian Empires and the Lithuanian Commonwealth hence why they were so new to governing and easily manipulated by long entrenched powers like Britain and France.

America wouldn't have supported the USSR with the Lend-Lease Act, nor would have they been to physically invade later on because domestic opinion in America would have remained isolationist. Japan may or may have not attacked but Germany could have left them to their own fate.

Clearly the actions of FDR and America were hostile against Germany long before the war. I posted the timeline which you purposefully ignored.

FDR was responsible for the Polish situation because he wanted there to be a war in Europe. You never bring up FDR, why haven't you ever looked into America's dozens of hostile actions against Germany before the war? You must have never studied FDR's foreign policies. You never mention the talmudic Morgenthau and the rest of the jews behind FDR in his "Brain Trust" organization.

You just conveniently ignore everything that the USA actually did in our real history. Here they are once again, for you to purposefully ignore once more. We could have an entire thread just on how much of a dirtbag FDR was:

-March 4, 1933 – FDR inaugurated as US President. Shortly after his administration begins economic policies that harm Germany endorsing the jewish boycott.
-1933-34 – Roosevelt administration boycotts German goods through jewish international banking networks aiming to weaken Germany’s economic recovery.
-June 1934Nye Committee begins investigating US arms manufacturers revealing that American financiers played a role in fueling WWI while FDR secretly prepares for another war.
-August 1935 – US Congress passes the Neutrality Act of 1935 prohibiting arms sales to warring nations. However FDR bypasses these laws to aid Britain and France materially.
-July 1937 – FDR publicly calls for a “quarantine of aggressor nations” (meaning Germany, Italy, and Japan), despite America’s supposed neutrality.
-March 1939 – Britain and France, under American influence, give Poland a blank-check war guarantee against Germany. This emboldens Polish leaders to reject German diplomatic negotiations over Danzig and the Polish Corridor.
-April-May 1939 – Germany presents multiple peaceful proposals to Poland but they are rejected due to British and American diplomatic assurances.
-August 23, 1939 – The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is signed between Germany and the USSR to divide Poland up into spheres of influence
-September 1, 1939 – Germany retaliates and invades Poland to cease Polish atrocities against ethnic Germans and its refusal to negotiate over Danzig.
-September 3, 1939 – Britain and France declare war on Germany.
-September 5, 1939 – FDR refuses to declare neutrality and begins openly supporting Britain and France against Germany.
-September 8, 1939 – Germany recovers Warsaw documents showing American promises of support to Poland from FDR.
-April 9, 1940 – FDR condemns Germany’s occupation of Norway and Denmark but remains silent on Soviet occupation of the Baltic states and Finland.
-June 10, 1940 – FDR gives a speech calling for the military defeat of Germany despite America’s official neutrality.
-July 1940 – FDR pressures Congress to increase military spending and expand US armed forces preparing for war.
-September 2, 1940 – The Destroyers-for-Bases Deal is signed giving Britain 50 US warships in exchange for military bases, a clear violation of neutrality.
-October 1940Selective Service Act is passed, instituting a peacetime draft for the first time in U.S. history.
-November 1940 – FDR is reelected after falsely promising, “Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars.”
-March 11, 1941
– The Lend-Lease Act is signed making the US the arsenal for Britain and the Soviet Union, effectively ending neutrality.
-April 11, 1941 – US forces seize 64 Axis civilian merchant ships in American ports including 28 German vessels and imprison their crews.
-June 22, 1941 – Germany pre-emptively invades the Soviet Union who were in offensive positions. FDR openly and immediately pledges support to Stalin.
-July 1941 – FDR freezes German assets in the US cutting off financial access.
-July-August 1941 – The Atlantic Charter is signed between Roosevelt and Churchill outlining war aims against Germany despite the US not being in the war yet.
-September 4, 1941 – The USS Greer Incident: A US destroyer tracks and provokes a German U-boat, leading to an exchange of fire. Roosevelt uses this as an excuse to order a shoot-on-sight policy against German ships.
-October 17, 1941 – The USS Kearny is torpedoed after engaging German submarines. Roosevelt claims this is an unprovoked attack.
-October 31, 1941 – The USS Reuben James is sunk while escorting British supply ships in violation of neutrality, 115 US sailors died. This was the first open loss of American lives in the undeclared naval war against Germany.
-November 6, 1941 – The US Navy captures the civilian German merchant ship S.S. Odenwald and imprisons its crew without trial.
-December 7, 1941 – Japan attacks Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt had imposed economic sanctions, blockades, and embargoes on Japan for months, forcing them into a retaliatory response that was known ahead of time and allowed to happen.
-December 11, 1941 – Germany finally declares war on the United States after repeated violations of neutrality and acts of war against Germany, ending the years long pretense of neutrality and isolationism on behalf of America.

Here is a similar timeline for the USA and the USSR:

-November 16, 1933 –FDR formally recognizes the Soviet Union diplomatically beginning a warm period of US-Soviet relations. Roosevelt believed that recognition would help foster trade relations and also counteract the spread of National Socialism.

-1934 – The US and Soviet Union begin trading in earnest though US exports were limited. The Soviet government sought American industrial goods and technological expertise to help develop its economy and heavy industry.

-1935 – The US agrees to extend most-favored-nation (MFN) status to the Soviet Union which allows Soviet exports to enter the US at preferential rates. In return, the USSR begins purchasing American machinery, chemicals, and other goods.

-1936-1937 – American companies in the agricultural and industrial sectors begin to increase exports to the Soviet Union. The Soviets buy machinery, oil equipment, and chemicals from the US while the US gains access to Soviet raw materials like grain, oil, and other natural resources.
-American engineers, technicians, and technical experts help with the construction of Soviet infrastructure including factories and power plants. One of the most famous examples is the construction of the Magnitogorsk steel mill.

-1939
– While Britain and France are pushing to move toward war, US-Soviet trade continues to expand. The Soviet Union increasingly looks to the US for technological and industrial support particularly in aviation and military industries.
The US does not push for any sanctions or military actions against the USSR despite Stalin's aggressive policies in Eastern Europe even after his invasion of Finland in the start of the Winter War.

-1940 – The US continues to provide the Soviet Union with industrial goods, technology, and machinery. The USSR's military industrialization is greatly assisted by American expertise. American oil companies increase their sales to the Soviet Union helping Stalin's regime bolster its energy supplies.
-FDR's administration remains diplomatic and refrains from condemning continued Soviet territorial expansions,. While many Americans criticized Soviet actions, Roosevelt kept a silent stance and instead criticized everything Germany did.

-March 11, 1941 – The Lend-Lease Act is signed into law ending any pretense of US neutrality in WWII. The US begins providing massive economic and military aid to Britain, China, and later that year to the Soviet Union. FDR's prior diplomacy and trade with the Soviets paved the way for this assistance.

-June 22, 1941Operation Barbarossa. Roosevelt immediately offers his support to Stalin, despite the previous ideological divide between the US and the Soviet Union..

-July 1941 – Roosevelt freezes German assets in the US breaking totally with Germany whilst also shipping large amounts of military supplies to the USSR under the Lend-Lease program. This assistance continues uninterrupted throughout the war.

-August 14, 1941 – Roosevelt and Churchill meet aboard a ship off the coast of Newfoundland and sign the Atlantic Charter, which outlines the war aims of the Allied powers, including the Soviet Union in the framework. The Charter emphasizes the right of all nations to choose their own form of government, which turned out to be another massive lie on their behalf after the war.

All of that Commie loving was still before the Dec 11th declaration of war. Only a massive undereducated simpleton thinks that Germany was the aggressor in this war.

The simple fact of the matter is that if Hitler knew that attacking Poland would have resulted in a war with Germany England, France, and then Russia, then he needed a plan to deal with all 3. He did not, and got his country genocided.

This isn't a simple fact, it's a superficial excuse for ignoring the causes of war.

Hitler didn’t ‘lack a plan’ he was boxed into a corner by Western powers that had been hostile towards the German nation since before he even rose to power. Poland was the trigger, not the cause. Britain and France had already guaranteed Poland's defense, a fact you ignore, while simultaneously ignoring their refusal to act against the USSR for doing the same thing in 1939.

Hitler knew full well that a war with Britain and France was inevitable especially after they guaranteed Polish sovereignty in 1939. He also recognized the growing Soviet threat long before that.

But let’s not pretend you understand the complexities here. His only real options were limited. Poland had been violently abusing ethnic Germans in Danzig and the Polish Corridor for years and economically ruling over a supposedly "Free City", and FDR had already been undermining Germany's recovery with embargoes, financing Britain, and imposing policies aimed at weakening Germany.

Your ‘genocide’ claim is a shallow victim narrative. The geopolitical situation forced Hitler’s hand and your inability to grasp these facts makes your statements historically false.

He would have been better off doing nothing, in fact, considering Nazi propaganda says the German economy was a miracle, and tech and science was booming, all they had to do was continue to build up and they eventually would have completely surpassed their opponents.

‘Do nothing’ that’s your brilliant solution?

Let’s pretend you understand the geopolitical dynamics of the time. Hitler’s economic ‘miracle’ didn’t just happen because of ‘booming science and tech,’ it happened despite relentless opposition from international power brokers who were committed to keeping Germany in economic and political chains.

You conveniently forget the fact that Germany was being systematically strangled by the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, and constant sabotage from both Western and Eastern powers, who didn’t want a resurgent Germany. The German economic recovery was a direct response to the policies of international financiers and Marxist powers that sought to prevent Germany from ever being independent or economically strong again.

You don’t seem to grasp that Germany wasn’t allowed to recover in peace; the world powers that had forced Germany into ruin didn’t want any country challenging their monopoly, especially not Germany. So, no, ‘doing nothing’ was never an option. The fact that you don’t understand this only shows how shallow your understanding of history is. Hitler acted because he knew that inaction would mean Germany’s complete and permanent subjugation while the world powers would continue to enforce their exploitative system without challenge.

Supposedly Germany wasn't even far from a nuke, if they had that kind of inertia then it made no sense for them to attack first and throw all all international support. It would have been a far superior strategy to out-tech and out-build their enemies.

What fantasy world are you living in? Germany was already treated like an international pariah long before the war,with Britain, France, and the US doing everything in their power to cripple its economic recovery and ensure it remained subjugated.

The idea that ‘waiting’ would have given Germany some golden opportunity is ridiculous. While Germany was under embargoes, constant sabotage, and financial restrictions, the Soviet Union and the Western Allies were building up unimpeded.

As for the nuclear question, Germany lacked the vast industrial resources and uranium enrichment capabilities that the US had, making your ‘they should have waited for nukes’ argument anachronistic nonsense. They began making successful innovations in free energy which pissed off the international jewish powers even more, and Germanic minds are not devious like jewish minds. They began nuclear research for the purpose of energy and life, not destruction and death.

Meanwhile the Allies were already setting the stage for war; the longer Germany waited the worse its strategic position became. But keep peddling this armchair hindsight as if it’s some profound revelation.

But, Hitler was a retard with no plan, and had no plan to deal with Britain after France, tried to fight a two front war, needlessly made enemies with America, and got his country crushed.

You ignore the fact that Hitler's decisions were driven by the reality that Germany had been cornered and systematically undermined for decades by international powers who had no intention of ever letting Germany recover.

As for fighting a two-front war, Germany was faced with a choice between submission and self-preservation, Hitler didn’t create the situation where Britain and France declared war. They did that. And if you think his plans were 'flawed,' explain how he managed to nearly conquer Europe while fighting the world’s greatest empires, despite facing unprecedented global opposition.

You want to reduce it all to name-calling and demonizing Hitler, but the truth is far more complex. Your simplistic ‘no plan’ narrative is nothing but lazy revisionism, Hitler acted in the face of overwhelming odds and global powers determined to keep Germany down. His country was crushed by the same international forces that had plotted its destruction for decades and your inability to grasp this shows just how little you understand the real forces behind the war.

A false prophet and perhaps even demonically possessed, the results speak for themselves.

This medieval-tier superstition masquerading as historical insight is a joke.

The ‘results speak for themselves’ indeed. Germany was forced into a war it tried to avoid surrounded by hostile superpowers determined to strangle it economically and militarily no matter what course of action it took.

The real 'false prophets' were the hypocrites in Britain and America who claimed to fight for freedom while funding Stalin’s blood-drenched regime and selling their nations out to international finance.

The real ‘demonic possession’ was the firebombing of civilians, the post-war starvation policies, and the total erasure of truth to preserve the victors’ self-righteous myths. But of course egotists like you don’t look beyond slogans and faux-morality tales, you just parrot the same empty clichés and call it history.

The truth is coming out in greater numbers reaching masses of Christians in far more relevant platforms and mediums than the traffic this forum is receiving under your gatekeeping.

Contribute some interesting historical details in this thread. It is clear to many members here what you are doing. I am willing to engage with you if you actually debate reasonably and stop concocting unresearched assumptions. I had my own criticisms of Hitler, but I have dispelled most of them because I have done deeper research and found them to be lies.
 
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-August 23, 1939 – The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is signed between Germany and the USSR to divide Poland up into spheres of influence
-September 1, 1939 – Germany retaliates and invades Poland to cease Polish atrocities against ethnic Germans and its refusal to negotiate over Danzig.
-September 3, 1939 – Britain and France declare war on Germany.
-September 5, 1939 – FDR refuses to declare neutrality and begins openly supporting Britain and France against Germany.

And this is where it all went downhill for American opinion of Germany, had they stayed out, America wouldn't have gotten involved. There was simply no appetite in America for foreign involvement before this point.

Hitler believed he was above world opinion and it backfired terribly on Germany. Keeping a moral high ground was necessary for international relations.

That you are unable to understand this shows the poverty of your intellect, and the difference between successful leaders like Putin vs. Hitler. Putin faced a similar situation as did Germany but wisely decided to wait. They waited 7 years before attacking Ukraine so they could gather international support first. China has backed Russia throughout the war and it is the reason Russia has been successful.

Germany could have done similar things, especially with America, before attacking Poland, or simply waited for the USSR to attack, and it would have been 100x better outcome for them.

‘Do nothing’ that’s your brilliant solution?

Considering that attacking resulted in a two-front war that got Germany genocided, yes, doing nothing would have been obviously superior. Plenty of nations and peoples have survived under oppression. That you are unaware of such things shows your incredible poverty of historical knowledge.

Let’s pretend you understand the geopolitical dynamics of the time. Hitler’s economic ‘miracle’ didn’t just happen because of ‘booming science and tech,’ it happened despite relentless opposition from international power brokers who were committed to keeping Germany in economic and political chains.

You conveniently forget the fact that Germany was being systematically strangled by the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, and constant sabotage from both Western and Eastern powers, who didn’t want a resurgent Germany. The German economic recovery was a direct response to the policies of international financiers and Marxist powers that sought to prevent Germany from ever being independent or economically strong again.

You don’t seem to grasp that Germany wasn’t allowed to recover in peace; the world powers that had forced Germany into ruin didn’t want any country challenging their monopoly, especially not Germany. So, no, ‘doing nothing’ was never an option. The fact that you don’t understand this only shows how shallow your understanding of history is. Hitler acted because he knew that inaction would mean Germany’s complete and permanent subjugation while the world powers would continue to enforce their exploitative system without challenge.

And yet supposedly Hitler delivered the economic miracle in the face of these constraints, then threw it away on a risky invasion. Had Hitler not gambled he could have continued the course of development and eventually surpassed his competitors. Why did he need to gamble like a retard? That's why you don't let your country be dictated by an egomaniac.

Doing nothing would not have resulted in permanent subjugation, otherwise the economic miracle would have never had happened. You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Was Germany a poor impoverished nation governed by an evil dictator? Or a benevolent ruler who provided massive economic reforms that saved Germany?

If the former, then I rest my case Hitler was trash. If the latter, then there was no need to invade. Either way Hitler was garbage.

Try to get past your emotions, and may be able to break free of your mental prison of Hitler worship.
 
And this is where it all went downhill for American opinion of Germany, had they stayed out, America wouldn't have gotten involved. There was simply no appetite in America for foreign involvement before this point.

So you just ignore the previous 6 years of extensive American hostility towards Germany? Again with the "simple" rhetoric. There are very few simple facts here. FDR’s administration had been openly working against Germany for years, supporting anti-German policies, economic warfare, and pro-war propaganda long before the invasion of Poland. Don't ignore the pre-war US actions:
-1933: FDR takes office and his administration aligns with international jewish groups calling for a boycott of German goods.
-1935: Neutrality Act passed, but Roosevelt actively works to find loopholes to assist and favor Britain and France.
-1937: FDR’s “Quarantine Speech” makes it clear he wants the Axis nations economically and politically isolated.
-1938: US places an arms embargo on Germany (but not the USSR, Britain, or France).
-1939 (Pre-War): US begins coordinating with Britain and France in pressuring Poland to reject Germany’s diplomatic proposals.

America’s opinion of Germany was being shaped by FDR and his backers long before Poland. The idea that it “all went downhill” after September 1939 is historically false.

Hitler believed he was above world opinion and it backfired terribly on Germany. Keeping a moral high ground was necessary for international relations.

This is another revisionist fantasy. “World opinion” was already being shaped against Germany by the Anglo-French-American elites who wanted war. Hitler made multiple diplomatic efforts to resolve the Danzig and Polish Corridor issue peacefully, which were more than reasonable:

-October 1938: Germany proposes returning Danzig to the Reich and building an extraterritorial highway through the Polish Corridor.
-March 1939: Britain and France give Poland a blank-check war guarantee, emboldening Poland to refuse all negotiations.
-April–August 1939: Germany continues diplomatic proposals, but Poland backed by Britain and America flatly rejects them.

Hitler’s mistake was not underestimating world opinion, if anything it was assuming that Britain and America would allow Germany to exist as a powerful, independent state. In reality Germany was marked for destruction the moment it defied the post-WWI order and rebuilt itself under National Socialism. The war was about economic control and destroying racialism that threatened the emerging jew world order, in addition to the histrionic battle of Christendom vs Communism.

Former US Secretary of State James Baker admits this:
AHjamesbaker.jpg

That you are unable to understand this shows the poverty of your intellect, and the difference between successful leaders like Putin vs. Hitler. Putin faced a similar situation as did Germany but wisely decided to wait. They waited 7 years before attacking Ukraine so they could gather international support first. China has backed Russia throughout the war and it is the reason Russia has been successful.

This is an absurd comparison, despite many people in contemporary circles trying to force one. The geopolitical situation of 1939 Germany and modern Russia are completely different.

Germany in the 1930s was under economic strangulation, being denied raw materials, facing trade restrictions, and being diplomatically isolated. Russia in the 2010s still had significant trade partners, including China, India, and even elements of the West, all before the 2022 conflict. Didn't the recent Western sanctions ultimately amount to nothing?

Germany had no powerful economic allies, the Soviet Union was its only brief significant trading partner, and that relationship was always going to be temporary Modern Russia on the other hand has always had China, a rising superpower.

Britain and France were actively looking for a pretext to go to war with Germany. Germany was given absolutely no diplomatic way out, no matter how many concessions Hitler made to them. Have you ever read his pre-war negotiations, or his peace proposals? To see the terms he offered and the refusal of the Anglo-French elite is astounding. They destroyed themselves with their anti-German obsession. By contrast, modern Russia was able to leverage global multipolarity to its advantage.

If Hitler had “waited” like you suggest Germany would have become weaker while its enemies became stronger. Stalin was already preparing for war, Britain and America were increasing hostilities, and the economic situation that Hitler reversed would have become unbearable because of the boycotts, embargoes, and the armament of those surrounding Germany. Germany's economic situation only became a miracle because Hitler not only defied Versailles but the entire international monetary system. When boycotts and embargoes don't stop them, the next step is forcing war on them.

Germany could have done similar things, especially with America, before attacking Poland, or simply waited for the USSR to attack, and it would have been 100x better outcome for them.

This premise is pure delusion and collapses once again under the weight of history. You assumes Germany could have “worked with America” before the war which once more ignores:
-America’s unwavering support for Britain and France in economic and military policies.
-The deep hostility of FDR’s administration toward Germany which had already declared Hitler an enemy in the early1930s. FDR was agitating speeches against Hitler in 1937, calling him, Duce, and other Nationalist leaders "gangsters".
-The increasing American provocations against Germany such as Lend-Lease, naval provocations, and freezing German assets when Germany had done nothing against America.

The idea that Germany should have “waited” for the USSR to attack is strategically idiotic. Stalin had amassed the largest military force in the world (thanks to western backers even before Lend Lease) and was actively expanding westward, with the West ignoring his aggressions. The longer Hitler waited, the more prepared Stalin would have been.

Considering that attacking resulted in a two-front war that got Germany genocided, yes, doing nothing would have been obviously superior.

You are either pretending that Germany had a real choice to "do nothing" and survive or you just really don't grasp these events. This premise ignores the three major forces conspiring against Germany’s existence:

1 - Britain and France were always committed to war – The blank check guarantee to Poland in March 1939 was not about protecting Poland but creating a pretext for war because Versailles was almost undone completely. Germany had already seen Britain and France reject every peaceful resolution to the Danzig and Corridor issues. If Germany did nothing Poland would have continued its massacres of ethnic Germans while Britain and France strengthened their military positions. They were already developing their air doctrine to mass murder civilians in raids to force enemy capitulation long before the war.

2 - Stalin was preparing to invade – The Soviet Union had the largest army in the world and was rapidly building up for war. The notion that Stalin would have peacefully coexisted with Germany is laughable. Hitler striking first in 1941 prevented a Soviet invasion of Europe. Even former Soviet generals admitted Stalin was planning an attack between late summer 1941 to summer 1942. The buildup on the Eastern border was already enough to reach Paris unstopped by 1941.

3 - The economic stranglehold on Germany was tightening – With American and British financial institutions sabotaging Germany’s trade, Germany was being denied raw materials like oil, rubber, and iron. FDR’s administration had already begun embargoes and would have escalated them further.

Doing nothing would have meant waiting for Germany’s enemies to continue strengthening and positioning their forces while the blossoming German economy slowed from being starved of trade and the Soviets prepared to attack from the East. Inaction was not a path to survival it was a slow death sentence.

Plenty of nations and peoples have survived under oppression.

Poland, France, Britain, and the Soviet Union were not aiming to merely "oppress" Germany, they wanted to destroy it. The same treatment for Tsarist Russia was intended for Germany only harsher. After WWI Germany was shackled with the Diktat of Versailles which deliberately kept it impoverished, weak, and humiliated. The same forces were at work in 1939.

Inaction would not have led to simple “oppression” but to permanent economic enslavement and eventual dismemberment. Poland, Britain, and France wanted to keep Germany weak forever, and Stalin’s USSR wanted outright conquest.

Germany had already experienced "survival under oppression" in the 1920s and it led to starvation, hyperinflation, the worst degeneracy since Rome, Babylon, and Gomorrah, and utter political collapse. Why would Hitler allow Germany to return to that? The only terms that were ever given to Germany was "unconditional surrender" from the very beginning of their rise in 1933:

whodeclaredwaronwho.jpg

There is no survival in a system designed to prevent you from ever rising again. That’s what Versailles was, and that’s what FDR, Churchill, and Stalin intended for Germany if it submitted.

That you are unaware of such things shows your incredible poverty of historical knowledge.

You are once again resorting to insults because you have no historical argument.

The reality is you ignore the years of economic warfare waged against Germany before 1939, Stalin’s clear ambitions for war, which even modern Russian historians now admit, and that doing nothing would have sealed Germany’s fate anyway just on enemy terms instead of Germany’s.

This entire argument is based on the fantasy that Germany had the option to just sit back and wait while its enemies mobilized to destroy it. That’s not valid history.

And yet supposedly Hitler delivered the economic miracle in the face of these constraints, then threw it away on a risky invasion.

Germany’s recovery was not done in a vacuum. It was built on autarky, trade agreements, and strategic economic policies that the Allies were actively trying to destroy. By 1939, Germany was running out of time because it was being economically strangled.

-The British and French were preparing war regardless of what Germany did (the Polish Guarantee of March 1939 proved this).
-FDR had systematically escalated economic warfare against Germany since 1933 using embargoes and financial manipulation.
-The Soviet Union was arming at an alarming rate and would have attacked no later than 1942.

Hitler did not throw anything away, Germany was being backed into a corner and war was coming whether he wanted it or not. The only question was whether Germany would strike on its own terms or wait to be crushed. That is where most of the usual hypotheticals begin, once people are completely aware of all the pre-war facts.

Had Hitler not gambled he could have continued the course of development and eventually surpassed his competitors.

This is a completely unrealistic fantasy that ignores every geopolitical factor at play. Britain, France, the USA, and the USSR were already hostile and working to contain Germany. Germany was resource-starved, it lacked oil, rubber, and other critical materials that Britain and America controlled globally. It's colonies were stripped in Versailles as well. If Germany had waited Britain and France would have continued surrounding it with military alliances, cutting off trade, and ensuring that it would never grow.

If you truly believes that Germany could have outpaced its enemies without confrontation then you do not understand the economic reality of the late 1930s. Britain and America would never have allowed Germany to surpass them. It's not gambling when the game was rigged from the start, and the only way to win is to take down the house. The spread of the National Socialist economic policies were doing just that, which is why other countries began revolting and joining the Axis and many more started coming up with their own Third Position movements. Nothing ever hurt the bankers as much as a free Europe that inspired the rest of the world to explore those concepts for themselves.

Why did he need to gamble like a retard? That's why you don't let your country be dictated by an egomaniac.

Your use of the word “gamble” implies that Hitler was making an irrational decision rather than a calculated move based on the reality of Germany’s situation with all the variables considered.

If Germany had waited, it would have been economically crushed, diplomatically isolated, and invaded by the USSR with a much larger unstoppable force than what was there in June 1941.

Stalin was the real “egomaniac” waiting to consume all of Europe and Hitler preempted what would have been a far worse catastrophe. Every single SS veteran admits this, the Wehrmacht veterans admit this, even the many other Axis ethnicities admit this.

The actual mistake was Britain and France forcing war over Poland not Hitler’s response to an existential crisis.

War was not a gamble, it was the only way for Germany to break out of the stranglehold placed upon it. Your argument completely ignores who was actually dictating the terms of conflict: Britain, the USA, and the USSR, not Germany.

Doing nothing would not have resulted in permanent subjugation, otherwise the economic miracle would have never had happened.

The economic miracle happened despite massive global opposition, not because Germany was left alone.

The global financial elite (Rothschild banking networks, Wall Street, City of London, etc.) were furious that Germany bypassed their usury-based system.

The international boycott against Germany began in 1933. Permanent economic subjugation was the entire goal of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919 and Hitler reversed it.

Germany’s success was fragile, it was based on an autarkic system that required access to resources Britain and America controlled globally (because many other countries were not free of the British Empire at this point, and the USA was contesting Asian powers in the Pacific).

Had Germany done nothing the financial war against it would have continued until collapse. The "economic miracle" was only a short-term victory, long-term survival required breaking free from international encirclement.

You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Was Germany a poor impoverished nation governed by an evil dictator? Or a benevolent ruler who provided massive economic reforms that saved Germany?

This is a false dichotomy because Germany was both a once-impoverished nation under Weimar and one that experienced an economic miracle under Hitler's policies. This all happened in a very short time.

In the beginning of 1933 Germany was destitute due to Versailles, Weimar hyperinflation, the Great Depression, and international boycotts,
but by 1939 Germany had the highest GDP growth in Europe which enraged the financial powers who wanted Germany under their control. That very success made war inevitable. Germany’s economy was growing despite being financially strangled, which was exactly why the global elite needed war. Germany’s economic miracle was never going to be tolerated. It was a direct challenge to the global banking system, and forcing a war was the response.

Germany1939.webp

The book that quote is from is one of the best anyone can read on the history and tactics of international jewish finance:

https://ia601703.us.archive.org/26/...and_the_Enslavement_of_Mankind__PDFDrive_.pdf

If the former, then I rest my case Hitler was trash. If the latter, then there was no need to invade. Either way Hitler was garbage.

This is childishly simplistic. You are trying to force a black-and-white choice that ignores the historical realities.

This is your false binary:
A: If Germany was still poor and oppressed in 1939, then Hitler failed.
B; If Germany was an economic powerhouse in 1939, then Hitler had no reason respond to force with force.


This is a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation because Germany’s newfound economic success was the very reason it was targeted for destruction and no longer merely a controlled death under Weimar.

Germany’s recovery from the wreckage of Versailles was seen as a direct challenge to the international financial order dominated by the Allied powers under jewish banking interests. Hitler's economic policies of reintroducing state-controlled currency, eliminating usury-based debt slavery, and removing Germany from the gold standard was a threat to the jewish financial system.

The very success of the economic miracle (1933-1939) led to increasing international hostility, which combined with aggressive encirclement through military alliances (like the signing of the Munich Agreement in 1938) left Germany with few options. Hitler’s actions weren't the product of irrational megalomania but a calculated response to overwhelming external pressures and blind men attempting to maintain Versailles above all cost.

Try to get past your emotions, and may be able to break free of your mental prison of Hitler worship.

Your ‘Hitler worship’ quip is a lazy dodge. I am not ‘worshipping’ anyone I am untangling the deliberate lies surrounding WWII history, which you seem desperate to avoid addressing. You default to emotional accusations consistently ("retard" "garbage" "trash" "idiot" "megalomaniac") because you can’t refute the economic, military, and geopolitical realities that forced Germany into war.

National Socialism at its core was about self-determination and economic independence, not some cartoonish ‘race-worship’ that Hollywood and Allied propaganda painted it as. Hitler openly praised other nations for embracing their own national identity whether it was the Japanese, Arabs, or even anti-colonial movements. When it is applied in other countries and by other races they each apply it to their own regionalisms. That's why Arabs, North Africans, and even Asians have their own movements of it. It will vary region to region, and it isn't a religion. Why do you think so many Arab leaders sought to hire German generals after the war? Everyone wanted Germans in their cabinet for their own power ambitions.

Meanwhile the so-called ‘liberators’ of WWII imposed globalist financial slavery, crushed nationalist movements worldwide, and handed half of Europe over to communism after promising not to. If anyone is ‘worshipping’ a failed ideology it's those who still pretend WWII was about ‘freedom and democracy’ instead of securing Anglo-American hegemony. Third Position followers don't base their movements around election cycles or wars, the volkisch principles are eternal to each nation who embraces them, and the economic policies can be applied by any people who organize coherently and dare to piss off the hydra.

Hitler worship

You need to understand a bit more on this. The point is not to enshrine Hitler but to remove the false religion the jews and the victors have constructed around him post-WWII, which remains one of the greatest obstacles to historical truth and national self-determination. The fact that even questioning this narrative invites hysterical moralizing and censorship only proves how fragile and artificial it is. No other figure in history has been elevated into an eternal boogeyman whose mere mention triggers Pavlovian outrage, and that itself should make any thinking person question why.

You don’t have to love him, admire him, or even like him to acknowledge that he stood as a bulwark against the greatest existential threat to Christian Europe: Soviet Bolshevism, which left unchecked would have devoured the continent whole and beyond. He was neither a Saint nor a cartoon villain, he was a man operating in a world of realpolitik facing existential threats from every angle including from the very Western powers that hypocritically claimed to defend 'freedom' while propping up Stalin.

Sometimes history’s greatest defenders of Christendom and European civilization have been "deeply flawed" men, but that does not negate their purpose in the grander scheme. Charlemagne, Vlad the Impaler, and Charles Martel were not paragons of moral purity, but they were decisive in preserving their people and their faith. To judge historical figures by the purity standards of a detached moralist rather than the brutal realities of their time is an intellectually unserious way to engage with history. There is however no comparison in antiquity for any leader who had the weight of multiple jewish-controlled empires descend upon him and his people.

Moreover attempting to compare Hitler to modern figures like Putin is a complete false equivalency. If one claimed you worshiped Putin, which would be easy seeing as how the Pavlovian response on this forum from half the members is that he can do no wrong, would invite similar dialogue in defense of said worship. The geopolitical, technological, and economic landscape of the late 1930s was vastly different from today. Hitler was struggling against the weight of an already-rigged global financial system that had spent two decades ensuring Germany’s permanent economic vassalage. The Weimar Republic was a living testament to that subjugation and the miraculous German recovery was achieved in spite of deliberate economic warfare by international financiers. His rise and the subsequent reaction to it were completely unprecedented.

The truth is, Hitler remains the single greatest anomaly in modern history. No other leader has risen from a position of total national destitution to economic superpower in less than six years, all without the backing of international finance or colonial exploitation. No other leader has had their name so deliberately vilified and memory so obsessively guarded to the point that laws are in place to criminalize revision. That in itself should make you wonder: why? Why does this one man remain the eternal specter over world history when others who committed atrocities on an even grander scale (Stalin (Lenin before him), Mao, Churchill’s Bengal famine, Roosevelt’s war crimes, Truman's war crimes, Eisenhower's war crimes) are never subjected to the same level of scrutiny? Because the myth must be upheld.

At the end of the day the real crime of Hitler wasn’t 'starting a war like a retard,' as you so eloquently put it. His only crime was proving for a brief moment in time that an economic model outside of jewish globalist debt slavery was possible, and that a nation could rise to unparalleled strength through its own industry and unity alone. That idea, not territorial conquest, not 'hate,' is what made him the ultimate enemy of the post-war world order. And that is why his name will never be allowed to rest while they rule.
 
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The international boycott against Germany began in 1933. Permanent economic subjugation was the entire goal of the Treaty of Versailles in 1919 and Hitler reversed it.

Germany’s success was fragile, it was based on an autarkic system that required access to resources Britain and America controlled globally (because many other countries were not free of the British Empire at this point, and the USA was contesting Asian powers in the Pacific).

Had Germany done nothing the financial war against it would have continued until collapse. The "economic miracle" was only a short-term victory, long-term survival required breaking free from international encirclement.

Your entire argument rests on the premise that Hitler was able to break out of the constraints of the Treaty of Versailles, but then somehow outside forces managed to reestablish even more stringent controls even though Germany had become economically successful. It makes no sense and there is no reason to believe any of this.

Germany had access to international trade and did not need much oil. Germany had the finest coal liquification plants in the world, which produced high grade oil products out of coal. All they needed was coal, which is in mass abundance pretty much everywhere.

In addition, if oil was the primary goal, then why didn't Germany just go for the Bakken oil fields in Russia instead of Moscow? Resources weren't the primary issue. Indeed, if resources are scarce, going to war against a naval super power like Britain made even less sense because then you'd be embargo'd.

No strategy, no foresight, and, and no path to victory. None of it makes any sense and neither do your justifications.
 
In terms of international trade, in the 1930's, Germany had the trade access through: Italy, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Switzerland. So even if Germany was sanctioned, they still had pathways through other countries to avoid it. Would it have made things a bit pricy for Germany? Still cheaper than WW2.

In terms of oil; instead of going to war, imagine if Hitler had explored for oil among his allies? Norway was sitting on massive deposits that no one had any idea existed back then. By the time Hitler had reached power offshore drilling had been newly established technology for over 40 years:


The idea there were no alternatives for Germany except war just isn't true.
 
Your entire argument rests on the premise that Hitler was able to break out of the constraints of the Treaty of Versailles, but then somehow outside forces managed to reestablish even more stringent controls even though Germany had become economically successful. It makes no sense and there is no reason to believe any of this.

I appreciate your interest in the details. This will be a long one, so read when you have time.

The creation of the Reichsmark and the elimination of the gold standard removed the control of international financiers (like the Rothschilds) which was a fundamental reason why the Allies escalated their economic warfare against Germany. They escalated in tandem with Germany's internal successes to stop German economic success from growing.

Hitler’s economic success from 1933-1939 wasn’t a fluke or an isolated achievement because it was the direct result of both cold-turkey ceasing usury and breaking free from the shackles of the Treaty of Versailles which were specifically designed to cripple Germany permanently.

The Treaty of Versailles wasn’t just a political document but a deliberate system of economic strangulation (Article 231, the War Guilt Clause). Germany’s resurgence under Hitler was a direct challenge to the entrenched international financial system and its decades of predation on Europe. They had the same troubles with Bismarck, the Tsars, and Wilhelm II. If you look specifically at European history in tandem with the spread of Rothschild banking from Napoleon's defeat in 1815, the most compromised cities were London, Paris, Brussels, Frankfurt, Naples, and Vienna (under the degenerating Hapsburgs). The five sons of Mayer Amschel Rothschild specifically went to these hubs. Amschel stayed in Frankfurt, Nathan went to London, James to Paris, Carl to Naples, and Salomon to Vienna. Berlin, Moscow, most of the major hubs between them were not fully controlled by this new jewish economic bulwark until after 1918. The USA for the most part was free of this as well until 1913. Western Europe (British isles, France, Denmark, Belgium) from the time of the French Revolution until WWI was rapidly judaized in its economy.

The reparations alone imposed by the Treaty created an impossible burden, intentionally keeping Germany in a state of financial chaos. After the failure of the second phase of the 1919 revolution when the Bolshevik-led Soviet Council could not take hold in Germany, the western parliamentarians and plutocratic financiers seized control. Instead of a gutting like their eastern counterparts did with the Tsar, they decided to get fat off of the suffering of the Germans while the red menace creeped ever-presently on the east.

Under Hitler instituting the creation of the Reichsmark and the elimination of the gold standard he effectively removed control from international financiers (Rothschilds). This in turn became one of the fundamental reasons why Britain and France escalated their economic warfare against Germany. As Germany’s internal successes grew, the Allies acted swiftly to halt Germany’s economic resurgence with their own pre-emptive escalation in resource denial. All before any war started.

Germany had access to international trade and did not need much oil.

You must consider when they had access and with whom, in addition to when they did not.

Before Versailles Germany had access to vast colonial resources through its overseas empire (German East Africa, South-West Africa, Togoland, Kamerun, and territories in the Pacific like Samoa). These colonies provided raw materials like rubber, palm oil, and metals. Stripped of these holdings after WWI meant Germany became heavily reliant on imports for essential resources. The victors of WWI particularly Britain and France ensured Germany remained dependent on their controlled trade networks.

Versailles also severely restricted Germany’s ability to import key resources throughout the 20s. The military Ruhr occupation by France (1923-1925) was a direct effort to extract German coal and industrial production as "war reparations." The German merchant fleet had also been confiscated which reduced its ability to engage in international trade on its own terms. The intentional hyperinflation crisis of the early 1920s further exacerbated these problems and made it nearly impossible for Germany to secure long-term trade deals.

The Anglo-French economic war against Germany began well before open hostilities. They didn't anticipate the MEFO bills and the labor treasury certificates (LTCs) revitalizing the internal state economy without the additional resources at first.

Germany had the finest coal liquification plants in the world, which produced high grade oil products out of coal. All they needed was coal,

The coal liquefaction / synthetic fuel technology you mention was developed under IG Farben because of Hitler’s economic reforms aimed for autarky, it was an innovation to fill a need given that Germany still lacked key strategic resources, particularly oil, rubber, and certain metals.

However even with German industrialist funds these plants were expensive and inefficient, they could not produce enough fuel for sustaining a country so Hitler secured trade agreements with nations like Romania (for oil in Ploiesti) and Sweden (for iron ore), but these were vulnerable to British and French diplomatic interference so Germany began stockpiling resources in anticipation of external military aggression, in case the same blockade tactics used in WWI would be deployed again (which they were).

However the advanced coal-to-oil process was extremely inefficient for the demands of modern industry. Germany's oil production from coal was only able to meet about 30-40% of the country’s oil needs. The process of Bergius hydrogenation converting coal to oil was not efficient. This immense industrial investment could not be scaled up fast enough to fully replace crude oil. It took 4 tons of coal to produce 1 ton of synthetic fuel. By 1943 Germany produced only 124,000 barrels per day while the Allies had access to millions from Texas, occupied Iran, and the Soviet Union.

The British bombed synthetic fuel plants relentlessly. Operation Tidal Wave (1943) crippled Ploiești oil fields and the Allies targeted plants like Leuna and Politz reducing German output drastically.

which is in mass abundance pretty much everywhere.

The situation with coke was even worse. Germany’s coke production was severely limited when you look at the resource availability of the time. Even with the liquefaction plants the lack of adequate coke for steel production restricted Germany’s ability to build enough defense machinery to compete with the Allies in the long term.

The most productive coal basins in Germany were the Ruhr Valley and Silesia (Upper and Lower). While these regions had significant reserves Germany was highly dependent on these mines and could not easily expand production. The loss of Alsace-Lorraine in 1919 to France meant Germany lost access to critical iron ore and coal resources.

Not all coal was suitable for oil production, only high-quality bituminous coal was efficient for liquefaction into synthetic fuel. Lignite (brown coal), which Germany had in abundance, was lower-grade and inefficient for this purpose.

Britain and France had vast coal reserves (UK’s South Wales, France’s Nord-Pas-de-Calais) and used them freely. Poland’s Upper Silesian coal mines were highly productive, but after 1919, much of this region was lost to Polish control, forcing Germany to reclaim it in 1939.

David Irving goes over all the different type of coke and coal in his books and why these were strangulated since the end of WWI.

In addition, if oil was the primary goal, then why didn't Germany just go for the Bakken oil fields in Russia

The Bakken oil fields are in North Dakota, USA. You must be thinking of Baku, which is in the Caucasus (Azerbaijan) then under occupation by the Soviets. The Wehrmacht did attempt to capture the Caucasus oil fields including Baku as part of Operation Blau (Case Blue) in 1942.

The full Operation Blau aimed to capture:
-Maikop oil fields (captured Aug. 9, 1942, but heavily sabotaged).
-Grozny oil fields (never fully secured, major fighting August-Dec 1942).
-Baku oil fields (never reached, Germans got 300 miles away).
The Soviet scorched earth tactics ensured that most captured oil fields were useless.

instead of Moscow?

There are different schools of thought on the approach to Moscow versus Baku and which one took more of a preference. Military tacticians still debate this to the present day.

The Soviet railway system was centrally designed with Moscow as the logistical hub, capturing it would have crippled Soviet transportation, supply lines, and command. . The major east-west and north-south railways converged in Moscow, meaning that seizing it would have paralyzed Soviet logistics across the entire European portion of the USSR. Even after the Germans failed to take Moscow in Operation Typhoon (Oct-Dec 1941) Soviet logistics continued to struggle for 3 more years due to the Wehrmacht’s deep penetration into key supply corridors and the superior tactics of the outnumbered Waffen-SS legions.

Since the entire Soviet rail network was centered around Moscow, skipping Moscow and going straight to Baku for most of the generals would have been a logistical disaster because the Wehrmacht needed supply lines through Ukraine and southern Russia. The further south they advanced the more vulnerable they became to Soviet counterattacks. The Stalingrad disaster (Aug 1942 – Feb 1943) showed what happened when disobedient German commanders overextended without securing supply lines, though there could be an entire thread just on Paulus and Stalingrad, there are no simple answers for that.

Logistics in the rapidly changing environment crippled the push southwards along with many other factors (radio interceptions, intelligence leaks, aristocratic officer disobedience). Hitler was not in charge of the Eastern Front as much as many like to think. The Generals are where the meat of this question is.

Several German commanders ignored directives or pursued personal military strategies that deviated from Hitler’s orders which played a crucial role in the logistical failures of Operation Blau.

General Heinz Guderian (Panzer Group 2, Army Group Center) advocated for a direct drive on Moscow in 1941, and argued against diverting forces to the Ukraine as a means of passage to the Caucasus (as ordered by Hitler). He was later dismissed in December 1941 from this command position.

Field Marshal Fedor von Bock (Commander of Army Group Center) wanted an all-out push for Moscow, he was frustrated with Hitler’s decision to send panzer groups to the Ukraine in August 1941 in a continued eastwards push for the oil fields. He was also eventually relieved from command in July 1942 after expressing continued disagreement with Hitler’s orders.

One also has to understand that two Germans having disagreements is much more cordially vitriolic than what you and I have. German military officers can have literal shouting matches full of insults and then go back to talking normally as if it never happened to carry on with their meetings.

Field Marshal Erich von Manstein (11th Army, later Army Group Don) was a brilliant strategist, but clashed with other both Hitler and other generals over how to conduct operations in the south. He argued that Stalingrad should have been bypassed to continue the push toward Baku. After Stalingrad he led the Third Battle of Kharkov (Feb-Mar 1943) temporarily stabilizing the front but failing to regain the strategic initiative for further offensives.

General Franz Halder (Chief of the General Staff of the Army) (OKH) was highly influential and often disagreed with Hitler’s strategic decisions, particularly the focus on the South (Ukraine, the Caucasus, the oil fields) instead of a decisive strike at Moscow. Halder’s views were more aligned with traditional Prussian military doctrine focusing on the need to decisively defeat Soviet forces by taking Moscow as the Soviet political and logistical heart.

Friedrich Paulus (Commander of 6th Army, Stalingrad) was heavily influenced by other high-ranking officers whom were tied to anti-Hitler factions in the Wehrmacht and Abwehr. He was indecisive and overly bureaucratic. He reached Stalingrad's outskirts in August 1942 but delays from attacking, alowing Soviet reinforcements (Chuikov's 62nd Army) to dig in. Instead of treating Stalingrad as a secondary objective to punch through, cut-off enemy access, and move on, he got bogged down in a city fight completely contrary to Germany’s blitzkrieg doctrine.

Manstein's recommendations for all generals and commanders was never to get trapped in urban warfare., and he even advised them to bypass Stalingrand entirely. After the Soviet counteroffensive (Operation Uranus, November 1942) Paulus refused to attempt a breakout of the encirclement even when Field Marshal Erich von Manstein’s relief operation (Operation Winter Storm, December 1942) had a chance of opening a corridor. When Paulus surrendered in February 1943 he defected to the Soviets and became a propaganda tool against Germany. His actions in retrospect potentially cost Germany the entire bid for resources that could have secured them a victory at least in the east, and given how quickly he became an ardent Bolshevik bootlicker, it would almost seem premeditated.


The further south the Wehrmacht advanced the longer and more vulnerable their supply lines became. The road networks in the Soviet Union were primitive, and their railroads had a different gauge than German railroads requiring extensive conversions. Soviet counterattacks on supply lines (Partisan movements and raids by Marshal Rokossovsky’s forces) exacerbated shortages. Operation Edelweiss (July 23, 1942 – Oct 1942) was Germany’s official attempt to seize Maikop, Grozny, and Baku as a sub-operation of Operation Blau.

One debatable criticism in World War Two is whether or not Hitler should have purged or relieved all the German aristocratic generals what Stalin did in 1937 and 1938 to Tuchachevsky and the thousands of other highly-skilled Soviet officers. I wouldn't call Stalin a retard for doing what he did, but it certainly set him back years in doing so. The USSR was ready to invade Europe in the mid 1930s and could have destroyed every continental military (especially the miniscule German military of then 1936) without Lend-Lease but his purges prevented them from doing so.

Resources weren't the primary issue.

Here is a short recap of the oil shortage timeline on Germany's behalf:

-1919 Treaty of Versailles stripped Germany of its colonies and overseas fuel sources as well as much of its domestic coke sources.
-The British-French economic encirclement in the 1920s-30s forced Germany into reliance on domestic coal, synthetic fuel, and limited trade agreements (Romania, Sweden, USSR Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact 1939).
-The British blockade (1939 onward) and American sanctions (1941) cut off all petroleum imports.
-Germany’s pre-war stockpile of oil (2.5 million tons) was rapidly depleting by 1942.
-The failure to fully seize the Maikop oil fields (August 1942) left Germany’s oil needs unmet.

Thus Hitler’s push toward Baku in 1942 and 1943 was a matter of survival not ambition.

Indeed, if resources are scarce, going to war against a naval super power like Britain made even less sense because then you'd be embargo'd.

You keep using the language "going to war against". This is historically backwards. Britain declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Hitler repeatedly sought an understanding with Britain before the war even pledging his own troops to fight for British Imperial causes and they turned him down. The British Empire relied on blockades, embargoes, and financial manipulation as weapons of war long before direct conflict. There is clear and constant antagonism for years towards Germany on behalf of England with France as it's baguette backup. Which type of war provocation (propaganda, economic, kinetic) and what kind of escalating reaction from Germany must be considered in each event.

The German retaliation on Polish-occupied German lands was a territorial correction and not a global war gambit. Britain and France used Poland as an excuse to start their kinetic war even though Poland itself had aggressive expansionist policies against Czechoslovakia and Lithuania, which the British and French never uttered a single peep on. They tried to start the war on Germany a year earlier with the Czechoslovakia events in 1938 and fell utterly silent when Poland took a cut of the carcass for themselves. Even earlier than that starting in late 1937 Sir Frederick Leith-Ross, the British government's chief economics advisor, had plans drafted to revive the World War I-era blockade strategy which aimed to leverage Britain's naval superiority and global commercial network to restrict Germany's access to essential resources.

Why would the English begin making plans for wartime blockade formations a whole two years before any conflict broke out unless they were attempting to engineer a conflict under pretenses?

No strategy, no foresight, and, and no path to victory. None of it makes any sense and neither do your justifications.

Hitler’s actions were rooted in the realization that Germany was facing a dire existential threat from an increasingly hostile world.

The idea that Germany had no path to victory is undermined by the fact that Germany succeeded in rapidly recovering from the devastation of Versailles, outpacing its enemies in economic and military production. All of their military actions were retaliations and not provocations. The strategic goal was clear: secure resources, remove threats, and create a self-sufficient nation outside the reach of British and French blockades, all while confronting the real danger of the Soviet Union, which had expansionist ambitions and was being supported by international bankers who had previously betrayed Germany after the First World War.

The "path to victory" may not have been fully realized due to unforeseen factors, but the decision to fight back wasn’t an irrational outburst it was a response to being cornered by international economic pressures and a geopolitical landscape intentionally hostile to German self-determination. Is national sovereignty illegal?

Germany was always at a resource disadvantage compared to the British and Soviet empires. Hitler's economic policies successfully restored German industry but could not yet fully solve the structural deficiencies caused by Versailles, loss of colonies, and planned economic isolation without leaving the national scene and entering the international. Their growth and eventual fighting back was not a reckless gamble but a concerted attempt to break free from an economic siege that had been imposed since 1919.

The book I posted in an earlier reply is aptly titled "Hitler: Born at Versailles" for these very reasons.

In terms of international trade, in the 1930's, Germany had the trade access through: Italy, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Switzerland.

We must consider these all individually before the war and again once Britain and France declared war on Germany.

Italy was an importer of coal, oil, and metals. Italy imported most of its coal (including from Germany) as its domestic production was negligible. Italy had no major domestic oil reserves relying on imports from Romania and the Middle East. They had some iron reserves but they were low quality and insufficient for large-scale steel production. It couldn’t sustain its own industry for a defense economy let alone supply Germany. Italy also lacked effective convoy protection in the Mediterranean, and British naval dominance blocked Italian trade route access to resources from Africa and the Middle East. The British blockade cut off Italy from vital materials especially after France fell in June 1940 and Britain held Malta which a key naval base that strangled Axis supply lines. Italy’s attempts to bypass this with ships were constantly targeted by the Royal Navy and RAF bombers.

Spain was devastated after its civil war (1936–1939) and had no surplus resources, it had no major coal, iron, oil, or rubber reserves that could meaningfully contribute to the German defense effort. It depended on British and American imports for essentials like food and oil, meaning it could not openly support Germany without economic collapse once the war began. The Spanish population was malnourished due to agricultural destruction and disruptions in supply chains from all the "scorched earth" tactics of the reds. The only significant material Germany imported from Spain was tungsten used for hardening steel (for weapons and armor), which they sold to every country.

Despite Hitler sending the Luftwaffe Condor Legion and thousands of German advisers, weapons, and supplies to support Franco’s Nationalists against the Soviet-backed Republicans, they were not in the position to repay him with allegiance against the Allies who they were in trade agreements with, but out of all the neutral countries Spain was the most supportive of Germany, during and to the survivors after the war. Without the earlier German support Franco would not have been victorious meaning there would have been no neutral Spain to even consider helping Germany later.

Sweden supplied iron ore to Germany but this was dependent on Norwegian ports (Narvik) which the British planned to cut off access to in early 1940 (Operation Wilfred & Plan R 4) to stop German access to Swedish iron. Sweden's own ports were always frozen in winter time.

Norway itself was not a major resource provider yet, which is why the pre-emptive German occupation went here first to secure its shipping lanes. The British would have rendered Germany's defense effort obsolete had they been able to set up in Scandinavia, Britain was already attempting to cut off Swedish iron ore shipments through naval actions in 1939–1940. The British Royal Navy mined Norwegian and Danish waters in April 1940 (Operation Wilfred), cutting off northern trade routes. Germany reacted by launching Operation Weserubung (April 9, 1940), seizing Norway and Denmark to secure Narvik and protect ore shipments. The British landed in Norway attempting to carry out Wilfred but were defeated and withdrew by June 1940.

Finland was engaged in its own war with the USSR (Winter War, Nov 1939 – Mar 1940, and again 1941 until 1944). It lacked the industry or trade routes to supply Germany. Finland itself had to import war materials, relying on Sweden for weapons and food. Finland was not an industrial powerhouse, it lacked major coal or oil reserves. The country’s primary exports were nickel, timber, and some metal ores (like copper and zinc) and were not enough to sustain a wartime economy of a foreign nation let alone themselves.

Finland’s most valuable resource to Germany was nickel, which was crucial for high-grade steel production. The Petsamo nickel mines in northern Finland were originally developed with British and Canadian investment, and in 1940 Britain pressured Finland to limit exports to Germany. Germany only secured full access to Finnish nickel after Finland joined the war against the USSR in 1941 with Barbarossa.

Switzerland has been a neutral banking hub since Napoleon and not a major resource provider. Swiss industrial output was mostly focused on precision instruments, chemicals, and pharmaceuticals which were not significant for sustaining any defense economy. Switzerland depended on external trade routes which the Allies controlled.

So even if Germany was sanctioned, they still had pathways through other countries to avoid it. Would it have made things a bit pricy for Germany? Still cheaper than WW2.

Except the Allies, primarily Britain, were systematically sabotaging or closing those pathways. When the British cut off these routes they were making economic war inevitable, and in the phases of warfare, this always precedes the kinetic.

-Britain immediately enforced a total blockade of German shipping in 1939 meaning even neutral countries faced immense pressure to halt or restrict trade with Germany.
-Britain mined Norwegian waters (April 1940) to prevent Swedish iron ore from reaching Germany. They were making aggressive moves towards Norway and if Germany had not intervened they would have occupied it themselves.
-Italy relied on imports from British-controlled colonies (Egypt, India) for oil, making it impossible to sustain German trade.
-Spain was economically hamstringed because of its dependence on American oil shipments, by it declaring itself neutral in a then European-only conflict, it was still able to receive the oil from its American contracts which was in effect helping it sustain itself after its costly war just ended.

Another war against Germany was designed to happen no mater what Germany did. The war plans were drawn up years in advance in England. They had conditions in place from 1919 onwards to economically militarily prevent German recovery to the pre-Weimar state, they did not count on the maneuvering of alliances and the changing of loyalties (Italy was Allied in WWI, most of what went wrong with English strategy in preventing early German recovery was not accounting for this switch, along with Spain becoming neutral after their war against the reds). They had failed to contain Germany against the collar they put on it in 1919 and to them it had to be "put down."

In terms of oil; instead of going to war, imagine if Hitler had explored for oil among his allies? Norway was sitting on a massive deposit that no one had any idea existed back then.

Yes the first significant oil discoveries in Norway happened in 1969 (Ekofisk field). No one, not Germany, Britain, the US or the USSR had any idea of these reserves at the time.

The offshore drilling technology in the 1930s was primitive and only used in shallow waters near land. Germany had neither the time nor the resources to develop deep-sea drilling under wartime conditions. The real issue for Germany was not just drilling for oil but refining it. Oil refineries, transport infrastructure, and the means to extract oil efficiently were just as critical, if not more, than the drilling process itself. While Germany could have potentially engaged in exploratory drilling it was far more practical given their limited resources to secure existing oil sources in the Balkans and the Caucasus which had functioning infrastructure.

Even if Germany had somehow managed to build one of these shallow-water platforms moving the oil from the platform to the mainland would have required a functioning logistical system. This system would include transport via tankers, pipelines, and other means which were blocked or threatened by the British Royal Navy’s control over the Mediterranean, North Sea, and Atlantic shipping routes.

Romania was one of Germany's most important allies in terms of resources. They had Europe’s largest oil reserves specifically in the Ploiesti oil fields which provided about 30-40% of Germany’s oil throughout much of the war. Germany and Romania signed economic agreements in the 1930s where Romania began to supply Germany with oil, wheat, iron, grain, among other materials.

After the Soviet occupation of Bessarabia in June 1940 which was then part of Romania, it joined the Axis powers in November 1940 under the leadership of Ion Antonescu a close ally of Hitler. Romania contributed over 200,000 soldiers to Barbarossa. The Romanian 3rd and 4th Armies participated heavily in the siege of Odessa and fought along the southern front in Ukraine and the Caucasus.

By 194, Ploiesti was vital to Germany’s military operations and Romania’s oil was the cornerstone of Germany’s fuel supply. Without it the German military would have collapsed under the strain of prolonged conflict much sooner. German forces secured Romanian oil fields, creating fortifications around Ploiesti to prevent Soviet raids.

The British bombed Ploiesti oil fields (June 1941) before 1943 the Allies launched multiple bombing raids on the them trying to cripple Germany's fuel supply. The most famous raid was Operation Tidal Wave (August 1, 1943) where US bombers attempted to totally destroy the oil refineries. That raid caused significant damage but failed to completely halt oil production.

Britain and its allies also completely controlled Persian Gulf oil (Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia) preventing Germany from accessing any major alternative supplies. They had bombed Afghanistan, Iraq, and invaded Iran jointly with the USSR in 1941 to force them from their pro-Axis stances (they even forced them to kick out, or arrest all people of German descent).

The idea there were no alternatives for Germany except war just isn't true.

This ignores the fact that Britain and France had thousands of alternatives to warmongering and encircling Germany, which is absolutely true.

They could have chosen peace, such as not supporting Versailles, but something malignant, deep-rooted in their geopolitical agenda drove them to relentlessly pursue Germany's destruction regardless of the cost even to their own nations. For them Germany had to either accept eternal enslavement under the impossible terms of Versailles or not exist at all. That was their goal.

What you don't seem to grasp is the sheer bloodlust and warmongering of the Allies. Germany had no other choice but to fight back. The Allies were willing to sacrifice everything to stop their neighbor from standing on its own two feet. The masonic elites in Britain and France, especially the British Empire and their jewish financial backers were the primary stokers of this aggression. From 1936 onward the British Empire through its press and political establishment was already agitating for war.

The British government began mobilizing for war as early as 1938 long before the Polish situation. Even before that Britain’s use of the naval blockade against Germany which started in 1914 continued to choke Germany’s trade routes making self-sufficiency a pipe dream. The “War Party” in Britain including figures like Winston Churchill and many in Parliament had already made it clear that war was their preferred method of curbing Germany’s resurgence. They made it clear that they were willing to go to war to prevent Germany from reclaiming its lost sovereignty and addressing the injustices imposed by the Treaty of Versailles.

The British refused all German peace offers in 1939–1940 even when Germany offered to withdraw from Poland completely. Why would they refuse that when "German presence in Poland" is supposedly their casus belli? Poland had invaded Lithuania (1920) and Czechoslovakia (1938) but Britain and France did nothing which proves they didn’t care about "aggression" only about stopping Germany. Everything they did reveals this pathological German hatred.

No one wanted war except the elites and their jewish financiers. The British people on a whole didn't agree with declaring war on Germany. Oswald Mosley’s British Union of Fascists (the BUF) opposed all war but the British government arrested and jailed all of them, thousands of people, once they declared war to silence all the anti-war sentiment which was louder than anything in parliament. The America First movement in the US opposed war but Roosevelt systematically sabotaged and undermined neutrality through multiple vectors including Lend-Lease, and campaigned a third time on the biggest lie a president ever made dragging America into conflict against the will of the people.

Everything Germany did was a reaction not a provocation. It goes against 80+ years of their narrative, but all the other Hitler arguments aside, the truth is that the entirety of both wars (WW1 and WW2) were international finance's agenda to prevent an independent power from rising up on the European continent that would challenge their rule. The two biggest threats to this were the Tsars and the Kaisers. Hitler was not a Kaiser, but his inertia was going to be the death knell of the anglo-jewish banking system because the cat was out of the bag then. It was conveniently stuffed back in to the public after 1945 and few ever debate this war from an economic point of view because then the rats are all exposed.

Germany's actions were always reactive, never provocatory. The 80-year ongoing narrative of German aggression is a convenient cover-up of the true motives behind both World Wars: international finance's desire to prevent an independent power from rising in Europe that could challenge their control. The two biggest threats to their global dominance were the Tsars and the Kaisers, and in Hitler, they saw the resurgence of that threat. National Socialism's inertia was going to be the death knell of the talmudic banking system. The cat was out of the bag. His rise wasn’t about expansionism or any of the hollyweird fantasies. It was about economic independence and that was the real reason behind the Allied aggression. By 1945 the true story was buried and few ever dare to examine this war from an economic perspective because doing so exposes the jewish agenda as plain as day.
 
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You just confirmed my point that Poland was never a passive victim but actively played high-stakes diplomacy against Germany. What Pilsudski was doing was nothing compared to the treachery under Rydz-Smigly. The idea that Poland never provoked tensions is shattered by the fact that it did consider a preemptive war and deliberately spread war-mongering rumors. The Franco-Polish alliance along with Poland’s refusal to negotiate over Danzig and the Corridor shows that Poland assumed it had backing strong enough to resist German negotiations.

Weimar had more aggressive territorial demands than Hitler, so the relations were tense, Pilsudski had to bluff to get leverage, and using France was a reasonable tactic, since the country along with Belgium had occupied the Ruhr industrial area in 1923, when Germany couldn't deliver the coal as the Versailles Treaty stipulated. But it shows there was no blossoming relationship you alluded to.


Made-up incidents? Even mainstream historical accounts acknowledge the persecution of Germans in Polish-held territories. Dismissing it as a tiny pretext ignores the geopolitical reality that Poland was a strategic piece in the Anglo-French containment strategy against Germany.


Are there any sources you can point to, this is well known in Poland as the official excuse, but where;s the proof? Germans would have retaliated against the Polish minority in their country, which numbered 1.5M, also they could have left for Germany if there had really been massacres, they had a country ready to accept them, unlike say the Boers now. Bromberg was 3 days after the German invasion, the Wehrmaht was preparing to take the city and was getting intel from their spies there. There needs to be more than Degrelle's writings, and in a dirty game Germans could have given him false reports with pictures of murdered Poles, have those files he claimed to have ever been published? Why did Germany invade Czechoslovakia then, after first taking Sudetenland.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/chap15_part07.asp

Notes made by Admiral Carls of the German Navy in September 1938 by way of comment on a "Draft study of Naval Warfare against England," read as follows:


"A. There is full agreement with the main theme of the study.

"1. If according to the Fuehrer's decision Germany is to acquire a position as a world power she needs not only sufficient colonial possessions but also secure naval communications and secure access to the ocean.

"2. Both requirements can only be fulfilled in opposition to Anglo-French interests and would limit their position as world powers. It is unlikely that they can be achieved by peaceful means. The decision to make Germany a world power therefore forces upon us the necessity of making the corresponding preparations for war.

"3. War against England means at the same time war against the Empire, against France, probably against Russia as well and a large number of countries overseas, in fact against one-half to one-third of the whole world.


The German Air Force, during this prewar period, was developing even more radically aggressive plans for the aggrandizement of the Reich. A study prepared by the chief, Kammhuber, of a branch of the General Staff of the Air Force called the "Organization Staff", contained recommendations for the organization of the German Air Force in future years up to 1950 (L-43). The recommendations are based on certain assumptions, one of which was that by 1950 the frontiers of Germany would be as shown on the map which is attached as an inclosure to this study (Chart Number 10). On this map Austria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, and the Baltic coast up to the Gulf of Finland are all included within the borders of the Reich. Kammhuber also envisaged the future peacetime organization of the German Air Force as comprising seven "Group Commands." Four of these were to lie within the borders of Germany proper, at Berlin, Brunswick, Munich and Koenigsberg, but the three others are proposed to be at Vienna, Budapest, and Warsaw.

Hitler also considered attacking France first, which meant those "massacres" would have to take the back seat for a time:

Military operations in the second global armed conflict could have begun with the German attack on Czechoslovakia (if, of course, they had taken the decision to defend themselves in 1938) or with the Third Reich’s attack on France which Hitler spoke about in a secret briefing of the Wehrmacht command on 22 May 1939.

The issue is that Poland was economically and politically strangling Danzig. The development of Gdynia was not merely an innocent economic project because it was a direct attempt to undermine Danzig’s economic viability and enforce Polish dominance over the Free City. By leveraging customs barriers as well as obstructing German trade and militarizing its position in and around Danzig Poland was effectively treating it as a Polish city in all but name, despite it being a League of Nations-administered Free City.

Germany had Hamburg, Lubeck, Kiel, Rostock and other ports, Poland had only Danzig for maritime trade.

Where am I copying and pasting from? My arguments are sourced, factual, and historically documented while your rebuttal is based purely on incredulity.

Some user pointed to your comments being largely made of book passages taken out without attribution.

Anything I use is written from a consistent and nearly twenty-year study of these events. I have corresponded with David Irving, spoken to Wehrmacht veterans, Germans who worked under Hitler himself, I've even established connection with the Degrelle family's descendants in Spain and elsewhere as I am working towards permission to examine the documents he had managed to save from Allied destruction as well as their historical rewriting.

I do not believe in flat earth, if you read the cosmology thread correctly, I simply point out flaws in the existing accepted model whilst refusing to worship the "sun god." I question everything. There's a possibility that all of this is all fake, most of history is not trustworthy, but this conflict is the last piece of tangibility that my family is connected to, from both living relatives and dead relatives. Everyone has a different experience from it, depending on their level of involvement.

I suspected you were Belgian or French. What do you know about Matthias Schenk, he served under Dirlewanger in Warsaw.

This is a fundamentally naive view of geopolitics. There are hundreds of documented atrocities throughout history that were ignored at the time for political reasons. The fact that Western media or intelligence agencies didn’t shout about something does not mean it didn’t happen.

-The Katyn Massacre of thousands of Polish officers by the Soviets was covered up by the West for years (which they tried to blame on Germany like every other atrocity they committed.)
-The Soviet-orchestrated Holodomor famine that killed millions of Ukrainians was ignored by Western journalists who even denied it was happening.
-The mass rapes by the Red Army in Eastern Europe and Germany were not acknowledged until decades after the war.

People in Poland knew through the word of mouth, from partisans and soldiers. The communist authorities were harsh, and you had to keep your mouth shut, up until the 1980's Khatyn was blamed on Germans officially, but there were books published underground with the true story. These things were known, the Soviets were raping in Poland as well, my paternal grandmother witnessed three Russians drag a mother and her daughters inside their house. In Warsaw the Red Cross helped arrange about 45K abortions after the Red Army liberated the ruined city.

Now the classic "my family suffered too!" angle. This is a tactic to divert from the debate and establish moral high ground. Nobody is saying Poles didn’t suffer during the war, everyone did. Besides notice the vagueness: “Died in a camp.” Which camp? “Presume from starvation.” Assuming.

I know exactly which camp, a smaller one. I don't need to share anything. You believe whatcha wanna believe. They were innocent. I had one great uncle who was a partisan commander, and fought against Germans, Ukrainians, and the Soviets, he survived the war.

Your pretentious moral posturing is nothing short of laughable. You claim to understand the fall of Germany through some divine lens as if this was some cosmic punishment. Let's get one thing straight Germany's defeat wasn’t a matter of divine retribution it was the cold hard result of a world united in its relentless effort to crush the Reich. A world united by hatred and jewish lies.

It was Hitler's blunder. He took Germany for a ride for sure. Down the road to hell paved with different intentions. In contrast, Rhodesia held out with only 500K whites, despite sanctions and the coordinated assault, Putin could have lashed out with nukes long ago but he's no fool, the game will be played by his rules and at his convenience, he won't take the bait, you consider him a Jewish agent even though oligarchs report to him, and he's more attuned to his low level bureaucrats and the average people while living high on the hog himself, than to those schemers. I only say that nothing happens without God's permission, like many Catholic and Orthodox saints whose quotes I cannot find, so I'll cite Charles Spurgeon:

I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes—

that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit, as well as the sun in the heavens—

that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses.

The creeping of an aphid over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence—

the fall of sere leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche.

Nobody can speak and have it happen unless the Lord commands it. Both bad and good things come by the command of the Most High God. No one should complain when he is punished for his sins. Let us examine and see what we have done and then return to the Lord.
— Lamentations 3:37-40


This undermines your entire argument. If Poland was so concerned about the Soviet Union as its primary threat then why was it supporting weapons shipments to the USSR?

You misunderstood, the weapons were for us.


So now you admit that Poland was aggressively militarizing its positions in and around Danzig?

I gave the reason why, you replied like a Jehova's witness quoting the bible who omits the inconvenient parts, the German stevedores went on strike instead of unloading weapons badly needed by Poland for the ongoing war with Russia in 1920. https://www.catholiccompany.com/getfed/what-was-the-miracle-on-the-vistula/


You are literally regurgitating Allied victor propaganda. Unplug from the jewish history channel.

"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to." - Polish Marshal Edward Rydz-Śmigły, the Chief Commander of the Polish Armed Forces

You pulled this quote out of somebody's ass. Where is the whole speech. Smigly never said it. The NSDAP fan websites like to repeat it. No way he would have ended up on the cover of a British newspaper. Poland was so much weaker and poor. Smigly was no fool.

Try to remember more clearly before you smear another. In Kaiser Wilhelm II’s private correspondence he was known to make strongly worded, impulsive, inflammatory remarks about various political and religious institutions including the Catholic Church, but there is neither a renowned nor a historically significant letter where Wilhelm II makes an outright “satanist, vile” attack on Catholicism. This is an exaggeration if not an outright fabrication.

You cant google it. It's from a book and the historian must have personally perused the archives.

I asked in an open forum, and you can set the record straight. I don't read your comments but when people reply, and it pops up in the 'most recent' section I skim through the quotes. You lamented the collapse of the old order, and the European monarchies, as a result of a masonic plot. This is what the house of Habsburg descendants maintain. But I found it funny since the Hochenzollerns were Freemasons themselves.

The German military, without Wilhelm's involvement, gave Austria the assurances which emboldened them to attack Serbia. They knew who would assist whom, and that the whole continent was in danger. It was also Germany that transported Lenin back to Russia to overthrow the Romanovs.

Talking about the good old days. The exchanges in Berlin, Vienna, and Frankfurt were run by the usual suspects since their inception.

The Versailles is of German doing.

The reparations could not be paid, even JM Kaynes drew attention to this issue. Money printing commenced. Then came Hitler.

You’re wrong on a theological level here. The Bible makes it clear that satan can masquerade as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). He can even impersonate saints, if it serves to mislead. The ability of the devil to deceive is one of the most dangerous powers at his disposal. To claim that God would never allow such impersonations is to misunderstand the complexity of spiritual warfare.

I wrote:
Where would be the sense in permitting demons to impersonate a saint during their silly disruptive antics.
A demon's swearing and growling isn't saintly. An angel of light does not act this way.


Exorcists do not always correctly ‘identify’ demons. The priest in this case told her that she was possessed by Hitler. She never declared this herself. She never said "I am Hitler," just like she never said "I am Cain" or "I am Judas" or "I am Nero" and so on. The Church itself admits that the names spirits give are often deceptive.

In the full version she gives those names. It's the first order of business for an exorcist to get to know and extract that info. Those were the old Latin rite priests, ask your Bishop or priest about her case, I would be curious myself.

You hide behind Nietzsche and misquote him like some intellectual crutch as though invoking his name gives your argument weight. "That which is about to fall deserves to be pushed" he was referring to the decay of outdated systems (the 2nd Reich) not a righteous cause being destroyed by the combined forces of an entire corrupted world.

What I meant was that Germany is failing and I have no sympathy. Let them fall. They're stupid. Imported Polish priests complain about parish councils hanging deficient rainbow flags from their churches, if the priests resist there is an avalanche of requests to the bishop to remove them.

Don't fall for this rhetoric to turn you against your neighbors. You blame Hitler in the entirety of your post but why don't you blame the Americans, the British, or the French for backstabbing you twice, both by lying to you before the war, and by turning their backs on you after the war? Why don't you blame the USSR for killing all your intelligentsia?

Polish patriots despise FDR and Stalin. With Churchill, these are the three my paternal grandmother 'hated'. FDR pressured Poland not to agree to any of Hitler's terms. It's like when a bigger bully kid kicks your ass, you blame him not your 'friends' for standing around doing nothing.


What's sad is that you believe these scams to be facts. You're a thick one. If you believe in the holohoax fable you are already under a demonic spell, and you need to cleanse yourself of that delusion before you go criticizing good Aryan Christian men with outright lies. The camps were humane. The only horrors at the camps were when they began starving and dying from typhus. According to the Red Cross barely 270,000 people died in those camps, and an overwhelmingly majority of them were from disease after Western bombing severed supply lines to said camps. There is an entire thread dedicated to details on the camps:


They have their lies but the other side has theirs. It's laughable this talk about humane camps, it defies common sense when in a total war resources are never directed to POW and enemies. In Eastern Europe it's always been about German atrocities against Slavs, the Jewish issue was secondary. This is the official story straight out of Belarus/Russia:



https://archives.gov.by/en/welcome-...s-3/the-history-of-the-war-a-survey-of-events

As a main tool of the New Order the Nazis used the policy of genocide, terror and mass killings. The extreme measures of penalty, most often execution, were used for minor violations of rules in all spheres of life. 400,000 people were taken to forced labour in Germany; almost half of them did not return, were killed or died. Nearly 250 camps of Soviet POWs and 350 concentration camps, prisons and other places of incarceration operated in Belarus. 206,500 people were killed only in the village of Trostenets near Minsk, where one of the biggest death camps was located (the number of victims at Trostenets is estimated to be the fourth largest after Auschwitz, Majdanek and Treblinka). The executions of the Jewish population of Belarus and the Jews transported from other European countries were carried out on a large scale; over 530 places of their execution, camps and ghettos have now been ascertained.

The occupiers carried out over 140 punitive expeditions, which aimed to suppress resistance, enslave the civilian population, and plunder their property. During the punitive expeditions they annihilated about 5,500 localities, including 630 villages together with their inhabitants. The scorched village of Khatyn became a terrifying symbol of Nazi crime in Belarus.



https://archives.gov.by/en/welcome-to-the-archives-of-belarus-website/subject-guides-to-archival-records/historical-events/archival-documents-and-materials-3/the-history-of-the-war-a-survey-of-events/aftermath-of-the-war

During the Occupation, the Nazis carried out more than 140 punitive expeditions, when they destroyed 5,454 villages, either partially or completely. The village of Khatyn, burned to the ground with its all residents, became a terrifying symbol of Nazi crime on Belarusian soil. Khatyn’s fate was shared by other 618 rural localities, 188 of which have never been restored.

In Belarus, there were about 250 camps for Soviet POWs and 350 places of forced detention. 206,500 people were killed only in the village of Trostenets, where one of the biggest death camps was located. And unlike Auschwitz, Maidanek and Treblinka, Trostenets held mainly local people as prisoners. Jewish ghettos were created in 186 localities. About 100,000 people were held in the Minsk ghetto; only a small number of them survived. Belarusian scholars state that 715,000 Jews perished in the territory of modern Belarus during the war.

It is believed that during the Occupation, about 400,000 people (including 24,000 children) were taken to forced labour in Germany.

The statistics indicate that, if before the war 9.2 million people lived within Belarus’s modern boundaries, by the end of 1944 – only 6.3 million remained. According to the Extraordinary State Commission data, 2,219,316 civilians and prisoners of war were killed in Belarus. Later, however, it was discovered that fatalities in a number of districts were underestimated and the data on some POW camps were incorrect. This figure does not include the people who were deported to Germany and died there, those lost without trace, or those Belarusian Red Army soldiers who were taken prisoners and died in captivity. At the present time, many researchers believe that between two and a half to three million people – every third resident of Belarus – perished during the Great Patriotic War.












.
 
Music, you keep going back to righteousness of the war, or conditions under wartime. Those conditions don't really pertain to my argument.

Once the war was on, Germany had to attack like crazy or die. And Hitler didn't perform well in this regard. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about before the war started, that Germany still had options. You mention Romanian was an important source of oil, which also proves my point. Germany had what they needed to continue to tech up during peacetime.

You counter that war was coming no matter what because the Rothchild's wanted it, and they were forcing Britain and France to do everything they could to provoke Germany. This is correct and I've never disputed that Britain and France were aggressors, because righteousness doesn't concern me.

Who is right, or who is wrong, matters very little in war. The only part that matters is victory. It doesn't matter if your opponent has massive advantages or not. It doesn't matter how evil or belligerent the enemy is. You either have a plan to win, or you don't go to war.

So, in spite of the fact that Germany was being pressured on all sides, they didn't need to take the bait and attack. They could have take Germans out of Poland, they still have valuable trading partners in Romania, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland.

Switzerland in particular could have served as a trading market for whatever goods Germany lacked. They were always the middle men and there was no reason why Germany couldn't rely on them.

Would it have meant Germany would have lost money? Sure. But it still would have been cheaper than WW2. They just needed to keep defending, teching up, and they would have surpassed their opponents. Hell, a nuke would have been absolutely crazy for Germany. They were probably 5-7 years away, and they could have nuked Moscow. No need to send millions of Germans to their deaths.

Hitler was an impatient man, and perhaps many Germans were that way, but if they maintained a cool head and avoided the provocations, then they would have come out on top. Most likely the USSR would have invaded Eastern Europe and Germany could have counter attacked, and Americans would have stayed neutral. There wouldn't have been a lend-lease act for the USSR if America had stayed neutral and Germany would have crushed the USSR in self-defense.

Hitler was the man in charge, he assumed King status, so the buck stops with him. Verdict: terrible strategy.
 
Weimar had more aggressive territorial demands than Hitler, so the relations were tense, Pilsudski had to bluff to get leverage, and using France was a reasonable tactic, since the country along with Belgium had occupied the Ruhr industrial area in 1923, when Germany couldn't deliver the coal as the Versailles Treaty stipulated. But it shows there was no blossoming relationship you alluded to.

You’re missing the larger context here. Yes Weimar Germany had territorial grievances but those were, albeit weaker greivances, also in direct response to Versailles. The Polish pursuit of leverage however was not just about defending itself but actively playing the game of alliances and provocations.

Pilsudski’s approach was more pragmatic, but Rydz-Smigły’s actions escalated tensions by refusing negotiation on the key issues like Danzig and the Corridor, the places where Poland had the opportunity to find peaceful resolutions with Germany yet chose to hold out for what they believed was French and British support. This is where Poland's provocations come into play as they gambled on international support for tensions and they weren’t just playing for leverage they were playing for war.

You also mention France and Belgium occupying the Ruhr in 1923 but that only added fuel to the fire of German resentment towards the Allies which was exactly why negotiations around the Danzig Corridor and other issues became so much more critical and charged in the years leading up to 1939. Poland didn’t just refuse negotiations it actively backed itself into a corner by assuming it had a free pass due to English, French, even American backing, effectively blocking diplomacy that could’ve averted war.

Are there any sources you can point to, this is well known in Poland as the official excuse, but where;s the proof? Germans would have retaliated against the Polish minority in their country, which numbered 1.5M, also they could have left for Germany if there had really been massacres, they had a country ready to accept them, unlike say the Boers now. Bromberg was 3 days after the German invasion, the Wehrmaht was preparing to take the city and was getting intel from their spies there. There needs to be more than Degrelle's writings, and in a dirty game Germans could have given him false reports with pictures of murdered Poles, have those files he claimed to have ever been published? Why did Germany invade Czechoslovakia then, after first taking Sudetenland.

The persecution of Germans in Polish-held territories is well-documented by multiple sources including both German and Polish reports at the time. For instance the 1938 German Foreign Office report detailing the mistreatment of ethnic Germans in Poland including attacks, destruction of property, and violent expulsions was submitted as a direct diplomatic complaint. Not to mention the testimony of German newspapers and witnesses who reported violent pogroms against the German minority especially after Poland's post-World War I territorial gains.

While the 1.5 million Germans in Poland had the option to return to Germany the reality of their forced displacement and mistreatment isn’t simply about numbers. The Bromberg massacre is one such example of the escalating violence, but it wasn’t the only one. I already mentioned the Silesia uprisings of the 1920s. Reports from German diplomats and other neutral sources indicate that acts of violence against ethnic Germans in Poland were not isolated incidents but part of a wider pattern of hostility.

Regarding your point about Czechoslovakia, the "invasion" of Czechoslovakia was part of the ongoing strategic and territorial expansion based on Germany's post-Versailles grievances not an act of conquest. The Sudetenland was home to a significant ethnic German population who had requested German protection from the Benes Czech government’s discriminatory policies. The Czech government’s treatment of ethnic Germans was piss poor which helped fuel German claims to the region. While the invasion of Czechoslovakia occurred after the Sudetenland crisis, the Munich Agreement had been a diplomatic solution to resolve tensions over the Sudetenland, signifying that Hitler was willing to negotiate until the very last moment. The subsequent German entrance in March 1939 was a response to broken promises from the Allies who had failed to honor any guarantees made to Germany during Munich.

As for Bromberg and the intelligence angle the invasion was not about a singular massacre or isolated intel. The Germans had made it clear for years that they wanted a peaceful solution to the Danzig issue and the Polish Corridor but Poland consistently refused to negotiate and instead continued to provoke through armed incursions and a refusal to settle matters diplomatically.

There’s ample documentation from that time, German diplomatic cables, Polish reports, witness accounts, to substantiate the claim that the mistreatment of Germans in Poland was not only real but significant in the context of the Allied geopolitical environment that was pushing towards war. Dismissing it as "well-known in Poland" and "the official excuse" without acknowledging the reality of these reports just shows a post priori bias. Before German forces entered the disputed territory tens of thousands of Germans from Danzig were already living in refugee camps because the conditions for the were so horrible in the "Free City".

On September 6th, 1939 Army Group 4th Division discovered the first grave of thousands of dead Germans. The German newspapers were the only ones that were printing it because the other ones were not allowed to, nor did they care to.

Hitler also considered attacking France first, which meant those "massacres" would have to take the back seat for a time:

You're citing the US State Department's post-war publication called quite literally "The Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression" volumes , specifically as part of the evidence used in the Nuremberg Trials, the fakest trial in human history. The "materials" collected in these volumes were part of the Allied propaganda machine that sought to frame the Germans as the central instigators of the war and as perpetrators of heinous acts. All they do is seek to demonize Germany and justify the actions taken by the Allies during and after the war.

The idea that Hitler would launch a major offensive against France before they were already at war against Germany is contradictory to the actual course of events. These hypothetical "considerations" ignore that France actually attacked Germany on the ground first. In January1940 after their declaration of war on Germany France launched a land operation known as the Saar Offensive, aimed at testing German ground defenses along the Saar River. This was 4 months before Germany used the Blitzkrieg tactics in France on the ground.

Hitler did not plan to attack France first, and the idea that he would have done so after France had already declared war on Germany makes no logical sense given how many peace proposals he made. Why would a man who has "secretly" been drafting up invasion plans try to appease his aggressors with concessions and peace proposals?

You need to unplug from your jewish-approved sources.

Germany had Hamburg, Lubeck, Kiel, Rostock and other ports, Poland had only Danzig for maritime trade.

Poland's actions surrounding Danzig were economically and politically provocative. Yes Germany had several other ports but Danzig's significance was its location and symbolic importance. As a supposedly Free City under the League of Nations Danzig was meant to remain independent and neutral yet Poland’s economic and military policies directly undermined this status. Poland's militarization of the region, its customs barriers, and its aggressive control over the Polish Corridor were about exercising political dominance over a German region that was vital to Germany.

This was a situation where Poland didn’t just want a trade route but wanted to assert control over a key part of Germany’s territorial integrity. The disruption of German trade in combination with Poland's increasing militarization of the region was designed to enforce Polish supremacy over the city and threaten Germany’s economic viability in the region.

Some user pointed to your comments being largely made of book passages taken out without attribution.

So you just assume what others say without proof, the same thing you accuse me of?

I suspected you were Belgian or French. What do you know about Matthias Schenk, he served under Dirlewanger in Warsaw.

A very obscure figure, apparently an 18-year old Belgian assault engineer. How convenient that the link to his propaganda is gone:

https://www.warsawuprising.com/witness/schenk.htm

What you need to understand about the Warsaw "uprising" was that it was jewish ritual murder. The jews orchestrate their attacks and massacres of the gentiles in alignment with specific jewish holidays, aka specific jewish ritual murder dates. This uprising began on the 2nd day of passover in 1943. They orchestrated this anticipating the deaths of non-jews. The jews instigated the Poles against the Germans, but did very little fighting themselves as usual.

The Poles, in believing they could rise up here at this point in time, would have had to have put their faith in the same countries (England, France, USA) who stabbed them in the back five years earlier using them as bait for their pretentious phony war, who turned out to be the same people who stabbed Poland in the back yet again a year later in Potsdam. Five years is not a long time to try and remember who your enemies are.

People in Poland knew through the word of mouth, from partisans and soldiers. The communist authorities were harsh, and you had to keep your mouth shut, up until the 1980's Khatyn was blamed on Germans officially, but there were books published underground with the true story. These things were known, the Soviets were raping in Poland as well, my paternal grandmother witnessed three Russians drag a mother and her daughters inside their house. In Warsaw the Red Cross helped arrange about 45K abortions after the Red Army liberated the ruined city.

So much for "liberation". They raped everyone on behalf of Ilya Ehrenburg's demonic pornographic orders.

I know exactly which camp, a smaller one. I don't need to share anything. You believe whatcha wanna believe. They were innocent. I had one great uncle who was a partisan commander, and fought against Germans, Ukrainians, and the Soviets, he survived the war.

The story of the camps is greatly exaggerated even outside the holobunga narrative. The Red Cross which acknowledged two millions plus rapes and hundreds of thousands of abortions across Europe only admitted there was around 250,000-270,000 deaths in total in these camps, a majority in the last two years of the war, with a majority of that majority occurring in the last few months of the war.

You also need to understand the Allied "partisans" were rightly seen as cowards to all military members, that's why they were nipped in the bud wherever they arose. A partisan was dishonest and dishonorable, they even used civilians as human shields leading to confusion about who was an enemy combatant and who was a non-combatant.

Partisans violated the laws of war, the Geneva Conventions, and other international agreements that set the standard for how soldiers should behave during conflict. These conventions required that soldiers wear identifiable uniforms, carry weapons openly, and avoid tactics that put civilians in harm's way.

It was Hitler's blunder. He took Germany for a ride for sure. Down the road to hell paved with different intentions. In contrast, Rhodesia held out with only 500K whites, despite sanctions and the coordinated assault, Putin could have lashed out with nukes long ago but he's no fool, the game will be played by his rules and at his convenience, he won't take the bait, you consider him a Jewish agent even though oligarchs report to him, and he's more attuned to his low level bureaucrats and the average people while living high on the hog himself, than to those schemers. I only say that nothing happens without God's permission, like many Catholic and Orthodox saints whose quotes I cannot find, so I'll cite Charles Spurgeon:

Your attempt to invoke divine determinism to explain Germany's fall is simply wrong. The "I haven't done enough research" approach so I'll say "it's what God wanted and call it a day."

While you mention how Rhodesia "held out" despite sanctions, you ignore the context. Rhodesia was deeply entrenched in a colonial mindset and the international pressure it faced was not the same as the all-out war that Germany was subjected to. The resources, military capabilities, and alliances available to the two (Germany and Rhodesia) were incomparable. Comparing the survival of a small, isolated colonial state with the collapse of the Third Reich is apples and oranges. Germany was facing an alliance of world powers and their full might, while Rhodesia was not.

You mention Putin and his ability to navigate power strategically. Perhaps Putin is shrewd and patient, but there are few to no parallels between him and Hitler. Your framing of this issue ignores the geopolitical realities of the Third Reich's position and the incredible forces arrayed against it.

And the argument about "nothing happens without God’s permission" is a cop-out for serious historical analysis. History is shaped by human choices and the consequences of those choices. Yes God's will might be invoked by people trying to make sense of disaster but this doesn’t absolve the responsibility of those who bombed and murdered Germany into destruction. If everything that happens is “ordained,” then there is no point in studying the causes and consequences of those decisions.

Ultimately your invocation of fate or divine will as an explanation is a convenient way to sidestep the real reasons behind the war. This was not some preordained event, it was the result of eternal jewish greed and loxism.

Nobody can speak and have it happen unless the Lord commands it. Both bad and good things come by the command of the Most High God. No one should complain when he is punished for his sins. Let us examine and see what we have done and then return to the Lord.
— Lamentations 3:37-40

Using Lamentations 3:37-40 to frame Germany’s downfall as divine retribution is misplaced and out of context. The passage is from the Book of Lamentations, written in the aftermath of the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 586 BCE, a judgment against ancient Israel for violating the covenant. To apply this verse universally to all nations and wars is an oversimplification. If every rise and fall of a nation were merely the result of God’s direct judgment, then where does human responsibility of the warmongers come into play?

Furthermore if Germany was being “punished for its sins,” what exactly were those sins? Was it Hitler’s refusal to prioritize diplomacy? His underestimation of Anglo-American industrial output? We all have the luxury of retrospect in the modern age but Hitler was at the forefront of this in a time when technology and regions on the map were changing rapidly, in short a sea of unpredictability.

This kind of deterministic theology is actually closer to Calvinist fatalism than traditional Catholic or Orthodox theology, both of which uphold that human choices matter and that people and nations are accountable for their actions, like those who brought war against Germany. The fact that God allows things to happen does not mean He wills them in a moral or prescriptive sense. Germany’s fate was sealed by the strategic and political realities it faced not an inevitable divine judgment.

Scripture should not be misused to justify historical outcomes. What happened to Germany was the result of concrete, measurable decisions from the instigators and the armed forces of jewish finance, not some preordained divine punishment.

You misunderstood, the weapons were for us.

The dockworkers were striking due to their own economic grievances, not as part of some pro-Soviet conspiracy. The Weimar government had no interest in aiding the USSR, but its left-leaning labor force, particularly in areas influenced by socialist and communist agitation, acted independently.

Is it convenient for you to overlook that Poland actively facilitated arms shipments to the Soviet Union throughout the interwar period, especially in the 1930s, despite portraying itself as the bulwark against Bolshevism? The Polish government allowed arms transfers through its territory and Polish factories themselves contributed to Soviet military supplies. This is historically documented and runs completely counter to the image of Poland as a purely anti-Soviet state.

I gave the reason why, you replied like a Jehova's witness quoting the bible who omits the inconvenient parts, the German stevedores went on strike instead of unloading weapons badly needed by Poland for the ongoing war with Russia in 1920. https://www.catholiccompany.com/getfed/what-was-the-miracle-on-the-vistula/

Your response completely dodges the central issue. You attempt to justify Poland’s aggressive militarization of Danzig in the late 1930s by referencing a labor strike from 1920 during an entirely different war. That’s a distraction not an explanation.

The Polish-Soviet War ended in 1921 and after nearly two decades of non-aggression with the USSR Poland was not in any immediate danger from the Soviets in the late 1930s. In fact Poland signed the 1932 Soviet-Polish Non-Aggression Pact, reaffirmed in 1934, meaning there was no ongoing Polish-Soviet conflict requiring defensive militarization in Danzig.

Poland’s actions in and around Danzig in the mid-to-late 1930s had nothing to do with 1920 but everything to do with increasing tensions with Germany. Poland was fortifying its military presence, obstructing German trade, and enforcing economic pressure on the Free City despite it not being Polish territory. If Poland was allegedly only concerned about Soviet aggression, why was it focusing its military and economic pressure on Germany instead of the USSR?

The real reason for Poland’s militarization in Danzig was clear: it was preparing for a potential conflict with Germany and actively intetinoally worsening diplomatic relations.

You pulled this quote out of somebody's ass. Where is the whole speech. Smigly never said it. The NSDAP fan websites like to repeat it. No way he would have ended up on the cover of a British newspaper. Poland was so much weaker and poor. Smigly was no fool.

I didn't pull this quote out of an ass, perhaps the quote isn't exact, but what is true is that one side was mobilizing while the other was attempting to negotiate. That certainly sets the precedent for who wants war and who wants peaceful cooperation.

Rydz-Smigly was a coward who fled Poland not long after the fighting began, while advocating for war over Danzig months beforehand. He wanted war like all the other Polish elites did at the time and he was not prepared for what he got. They were frothing at the empty promises and sweet nothings telegraphed to their embassies by British, French, and American soothsayers. In retrospect the entire Polish leadership were fooled twice, in 1939 and in 1945 by the same people.

We can look at Smigly's own words:

Article: "Interview with Marshal Smigly-Rydz July 26th, 1939"
TruthSmiglyWantsWar.jpg

He was a chief warmonger and was crucial in rejecting all diplomacy between Germany and Poland, egged on by his lying backers. There is almost nothing from him after he fled Poland because he was interned in Romania.

We can look at Hitler's words as well, recorded by the various presses of the world and preserved in archives (which most people never look at):

From the speech: "Adolf Hitler in Danzig, September 19th, 1939"
AHPolishSituation.jpg

Why did Hitler say that about Smigly? The key phrase, "Instead of in Berlin, it has landed him in Czernowitz," references Smigly-Rydz's boastful claims that he would lead a victorious Polish army into Berlin, a statement that dramatically contrasted with his eventual fleeing to Romania after Poland's rapid collapse.

He was widely known for his anti-German rhetoric and aggressive posturing before the war. While the actual speech in which he explicitly claimed he would ride his horse through Berlin remains scrubbed (I am looking for it) Polish nationalist propaganda did depict him as a conqueror of Germany.

There is indeed even a painting showing Smigly-Rydz riding victoriously through the Brandenburg Gate, a clear sign of Polish ambitions and their confidence in their military capabilities. This is the imagery Hitler was likely alluding to when mocking his poor sense of direction implying that instead of marching triumphantly into Berlin he fled south to Romania abandoning his nation and army.

truthsmiglyberling.jpg

Rydz-Smigly had adopted a confrontational stance against Germany rejecting any peaceful resolution over Danzig and the Polish Corridor. Is he a fool? Maybe, bue he sure pursued an aggressive militarization policy of making Poland a willing pawn in the Anglo-French containment of Germany.

You cant google it. It's from a book and the historian must have personally perused the archives.
Then try to find more ample evidence of this claim before you try to make someone look satanic, even a historical figure like Wilhelm II.

I asked in an open forum, and you can set the record straight. I don't read your comments but when people reply, and it pops up in the 'most recent' section I skim through the quotes. You lamented the collapse of the old order, and the European monarchies, as a result of a masonic plot. This is what the house of Habsburg descendants maintain. But I found it funny since the Hochenzollerns were Freemasons themselves.

The last Crown Prince of Austria-Hungary Otto von Habsburg openly wrote about the masonic influence in the dissolution of the Empire and the subsequent establishment of weak republics, which were far easier for internationalist and revolutionary forces to control.

Second, the Hohenzollerns were compromised by Freemasonry, but that does not mean their downfall was not still part of the greater masonic and internationalist plot to dismantle the European order. Even if Wilhelm II allowed Masonic influences in his court he himself was vehemently opposed to its revolutionary and globalist agenda and that is precisely why his downfall was orchestrated.

Now if you’ve actually read Mein Kampf you’d know that Hitler explicitly criticizes the old monarchies including the Hohenzollerns for their degeneracy and failure to resist subversive elements like Freemasonry and international finance. He acknowledges their weakness but does not absolve the external forces that worked to bring them down.

Your attempt to dismiss the role of masonic and revolutionary elements in dismantling the old order is historically ignorant. The collapse of the Hohenzollerns, the Habsburgs, and the Romanovs was not a simple organic shift it was engineered by occult forces who sought to replace European monarchies with pseudo-republics that they could manipulate more easily.

The fact that you "skim through quotes" instead of actually reading arguments explains your consistent failure to engage with the full context of the discussion. If you want to debate the collapse of the monarchies, try to actually understand the position being presented. Freemasons were never as fully-linked as jews were. Freemasons are an arm of jewry in that their aims ultimately benefit world jewry.

The German military, without Wilhelm's involvement, gave Austria the assurances which emboldened them to attack Serbia. They knew who would assist whom, and that the whole continent was in danger.

Yes Germany gave Austria-Hungary the so-called "blank check" assurance but this was after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, an act directly tied to Serbian-backed terrorist elements (the Black Hand). Austria-Hungary had every right to respond to such an act of aggression.

Furthermore your framing suggests that Germany was recklessly throwing Europe into war. This ignores the fact that Russia mobilized first on July 30, 1914, forcing Germany into a two-front war. Germany did not blindly "embolden" Austria it reacted to an escalating crisis where Russian mobilization meant war was inevitable.

It was also Germany that transported Lenin back to Russia to overthrow the Romanovs.

Again an oversimplified half-truth. The German High Command allowed Lenin’s return to Russia in 1917 because it served their immediate strategic interests in weakening the military presence of Russia so that Germany could focus on the Western Front. This was a cold geopolitical calculation not an ideological endorsement of Bolshevism. The Prussian elites did not know what they were setting into motion, and Hitler criticized them for this too.

But let’s not pretend that Germany was the primary architect of the Bolshevik revolution. Who financed the revolution once Lenin arrived? Not Berlin. The real backing came from Western financial elites particularly Wall Street and international banking circles (Schiff, Kuhn, Loeb, Warburg) which were more than happy to see Russia fall into chaos and debt. Lenin himself acknowledged that Bolshevism thrived off foreign financial backing but you conveniently ignore that part.

Talking about the good old days. The exchanges in Berlin, Vienna, and Frankfurt were run by the usual suspects since their inception.

Now you’re admitting that the same financial elites controlled these centers of power since the 19th century, you’re halfway to understanding the larger game at play. But if you recognize that international finance was pulling the strings behind the scenes, then why do you persist in blaming Germany for events that were clearly manipulated by these same interests?

If anything the Second Reich under Wilhelm II was one of the last bulwarks against complete financial domination in the 19th century leading into the 20th which is precisely why it had to be destroyed. After the war who benefitted? The same international banking houses that carved up Europe at Versailles, buried Germany under eternal debt.

You’re inadvertently proving my point: The real forces that orchestrated the fall of monarchies and nations were not Germany, but the very financial and revolutionary elements that manipulated the entire conflict from behind the scenes.

The Versailles is of German doing.

Where are you reading these lies from?

The Treaty of Versailles was imposed on Germany under extreme duress. Germany was not even invited to participate in the negotiations at the Paris Peace Conference. Instead the treaty was dictated by the victorious Allied powers mostly Britain, France, and the United States. The actual signers of the treaty for Germany, Hermann Muller and Johannes Bell, were forced to sign under threat of continued war and economic strangulation.

Had Germany refused the Allied naval blockade which had already starved hundreds of thousands of German civilians would have remained in place. This blockade was a deliberate act of economic warfare continued even after the armistice to coerce Germany into submission. The Germans were presented with a fait accompli, either sign or face complete destruction.

Even Marshal Ferdinand Foch, the French military leader, admitted the treaty was nothing but a temporary armistice, saying:
"This is not peace. It is an armistice for twenty years."

The reparations could not be paid, even JM Kaynes drew attention to this issue. Money printing commenced. Then came Hitler.

Of course they couldn't be paid. The Treaty of Versailles demanded 132 billion gold marks in reparations, a sum that was deliberately impossible for Germany to pay. You mention Keynes the British economist who attended the negotiations. He openly called it an act of economic suicide, predicting that it would destabilize Germany and Europe as a whole.

What Keynes wrote in The Economic Consequences of the Peace:
“The treaty includes no provisions for the economic rehabilitation of Europe—nothing to make the defeated Central Empires into good neighbors, nothing to stabilize the new States of Europe, nothing to reclaim Russia.”

Instead of creating a lasting peace the treaty ensured economic collapse. It led directly to the hyperinflation crisis of 1923 when the Weimar government unable to meet its crushing debt obligations resorted to money-printing and collapsing the German mark and throwing millions into poverty.

It wasn't like Hitler magically appeared on the scene. Have you studied the years of struggle of National Socialism, from 1919-1932? Hitler dedicates large sections to the Treaty of Versailles and its consequences in Mein Kampf. He sees it as the ultimate betrayal not just by the Allies, but by the German politicians who capitulated. He refers to these figures as the "November Criminals" those who stabbed Germany in the back by surrendering and signing this humiliating treaty.

He writes in Volume 1, Chapter 12 (The First Period of Development of the National Socialist German Workers' Party):
“A people that asks gifts from others begs for its own destruction. The young movement had to fight against two enemies: against the Marxists and against those who viewed the Versailles Treaty as a matter of course.”

Hitler correctly saw Versailles as a tool of economic strangulation designed to keep Germany permanently weak while enriching international financial interests.

Who benefited from Versailles? Certainly not Germany. The main beneficiaries were:
-France, which aimed to keep Germany crippled and took control of the resource-rich Saar Basin and Alsace-Lorraine.
-Britain, which eliminated Germany as a naval competitor and maintained its dominance over global trade.
-The US which initially took a moderate approach under Wilson but ultimately let Wall Street banks profit from German debt repayments through the Dawes Plan (1924) & Young Plan (1929).

These financial schemes kept Germany chained to international debt ensuring its resources flowed to Allied powers and banking houses. No justice. Just economic servitude disguised as reparations.

I wrote:

A demon's swearing and growling isn't saintly. An angel of light does not act this way.

In the full version she gives those names. It's the first order of business for an exorcist to get to know and extract that info. Those were the old Latin rite priests, ask your Bishop or priest about her case, I would be curious myself.
Except the Church ultimately ruled this was not a valid exorcism because she was declared to ultimately not be under demonic possession.

Do you deny the Church now? Where is this "full version?" According to theological matters the dead are buried awaiting their final judgment, so a demon cannot even take the form of a dead person as if it was that actual person. These demonic village phobias of Hitler are completely anathema to how his people viewed him.

What I meant was that Germany is failing and I have no sympathy. Let them fall. They're stupid. Imported Polish priests complain about parish councils hanging deficient rainbow flags from their churches, if the priests resist there is an avalanche of requests to the bishop to remove them.

This is the same attitude that leaves Europe fractured and ruinous. You Poles with your moral posturing are just as much to blame for desiring your neighbor's downfall and not their redemption as the clueless modern Germans are for accepting homo garbage. Go in there and kick out the faggots by force! You want a Sharia buffer state on your western border simply because the Germans have zero control over their affairs? Last century it was the Germans who were helping free people from the Rothschilds, maybe this will be your century since Poland is still ethnically monolithic and not full-on with the globohomo. We have a moral obligation to help our brothers not leave them in their sin, do we not? Polish selfishness will not spare your people from the wrath of the jews and their servants.

Polish patriots despise FDR and Stalin. With Churchill, these are the three my paternal grandmother 'hated'. FDR pressured Poland not to agree to any of Hitler's terms. It's like when a bigger bully kid kicks your ass, you blame him not your 'friends' for standing around doing nothing.

The Allies were stoking the high of Polish nationalism in worse ways than you denigrate the German nationalism of last century. They stoked it so much against Germany that they even told the Poles not to resist the Soviet Red Army when it came in from the east.

Think about it. The Allies encouraged the Poles not to resist the Soviets, only for them to be rounded up and massacred by said Soviets. How infuriating it was to be a Pole back then, but five years later they trust the Allies with the august uprising that only led to more Polish and German (non-jewish) deaths?

That's why these European nationalism movements must be in tandem going forward. One will not survive without the other. England's treachery has cost her the worst out of them all, with France close behind. In the German countryside, in Bavaria, and in Austrian countryside I've never had issues running into homos or wandering packs of Mohammedans.

They have their lies but the other side has theirs. It's laughable this talk about humane camps, it defies common sense when in a total war resources are never directed to POW and enemies. In Eastern Europe it's always been about German atrocities against Slavs, the Jewish issue was secondary. This is the official story straight out of Belarus/Russia:

The average calories a German citizen would eat per day during the war was around 900. The average calories a camp inmate would eat was almost twice that. The camps were humane, they were set up with the express purpose of housing immigrants for deportation, when deportation to far areas of the earth became impossible many were added on with larger features for longer durations until settlement in the east was resolved. What you see as inhumane was places that were bombed out, ridden with disease, and everyone starving because said bombs destroyed the rail lines and prevented shipments from reaching the camps. You don't doubt German efficiency, you know how detail-obsessed they are.

Have you ever read the Holocaust Handbooks? I can give you the link to them or send them to you. I think it's very important you see just how much work has gone into this lie of the German camps. The other nation's camps were indeed nightmares compared to the German ones.
 
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Music, you keep going back to righteousness of the war, or conditions under wartime. Those conditions don't really pertain to my argument.

Once the war was on, Germany had to attack like crazy or die. And Hitler didn't perform well in this regard. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I am beginning to see how your entire framework is built on hindsight-driven theoreticals.

He had a succession of rapid military victories from 1939 until late 1942 (Poland, France, Norway, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Balkans, Greece & Crete, Initial Barbarossa). The losses in 1943 and beyond don’t erase what was accomplished in the first few years of the war nor can you just ignore how well the initial campaigns went. The period between 1939-1942 shows some of the most successful military campaigns in history, with the Germans achieving superior strategy, tactics, and speed.

Dismissing the early successes as ‘poor performance’ is highly selective. The last few years of the war saw major setbacks, but to reduce Hitler’s overall military performance to just that is to ignore the fact that his early decisions and strategies led to massive wins that are studied in military academies presently and will be for as long as man wants to kill each other.

If you want to explore what caused the losses of each battle or what led from one to the next, then that gets into the precarious realm of a detail heavy explanation that is more drawn out than the verbosities I post here, but you will find answers there at the end of great walls of text.

I'm talking about before the war started, that Germany still had options. You mention Romanian was an important source of oil, which also proves my point. Germany had what they needed to continue to tech up during peacetime.

Are you assuming that Germany had infinite time to "tech up" and that restraint would have yielded better results? Perhaps if they had more time, of course. However this is a false premise because Germany was on a clock both in terms of population pressures and foreign containment.

Germany experienced brutal blockades in WWI and afterwards, and the same strategy was already being formulated before WWII. Germany was starved of essential raw materials. Romanian oil was not secure indefinitely and imports of key materials (iron ore from Sweden, tungsten, rubber, etc) were being systematically threatened. Britain and France had the power to cut these off. The Anglo-French containment policy was designed to strangle Germany economically forcing it to act sooner rather than later.

If Germany was a small country then perhaps they could have economically survived without the necessity for trade with their labor-based economy, but there were over 80 million Germans and it was growing once the moral shackles of Weimar were removed and large families became central to German life again. Many of Hitler's speeches give exact figures to number of people per square kilometer in comparisons of country to country and the needs for each.

You counter that war was coming no matter what because the Rothchild's wanted it, and they were forcing Britain and France to do everything they could to provoke Germany. This is correct and I've never disputed that Britain and France were aggressors, because righteousness doesn't concern me.

Who is right, or who is wrong, matters very little in war. The only part that matters is victory. It doesn't matter if your opponent has massive advantages or not. It doesn't matter how evil or belligerent the enemy is. You either have a plan to win, or you don't go to war.

This view comes from a purely tactical or even Machiavellian mindset where the end justifies the means. It’s the mentality of someone who has been severely detached from the human cost of war and is focused entirely on the outcome. This is an almost clinical approach to war. While true in some isolated individual combat scenarios (some guy jumps you when you're out in public, doesn't matter who he is he's going down) it fundamentally misses the strategic and political elements of large-scale war.

This worldview relies on the same morality you claim to avoid. The focus on victory above all else is moral absolutism disguised as pragmatism. Believing that only the outcome matters but failing to realize is that the outcome of war (or any major conflict) are shaped by forces outside of any one individual’s control.

You say you're not concerned with “righteousness” or “conditions under wartime,” but that is a profound misunderstanding of war itself. The conditions of war including the social, economic, and geopolitical circumstances leading up to conflict define the strategies a leader is able to pursue. Strategic passivity in a context of economic and military encirclement could never guarantee survival.

It it a misunderstanding of the very nature of war by reducing it to a set of calculations that fail to account for the unpredictable nature of international relations. Warfare isn’t a controlled environment where the best plan always wins.

Context matters: in the case of Germany, it wasn’t about simply fighting for victory it was about survival against multiple external forces. The assumption that Germany could have waited out the war fails to grasp the international coordination already in place against Germany. The idea that Germany could have just avoided responding to provocations ignores the clear pattern of aggression and economic warfare that had been building since the early 1930s. Things moved much more rapidly back then than what we see now.

In this view you're not recognizing that victory in such a scenario wasn't just a matter of military conquest, but also of defending German sovereignty and avoiding an existential threat. Avoiding war was already impossible because Germany was already in a state of war, whether conventional military action occurred or not. The war was basically continuous in one phase or another from 1914 until 1945, and some would argue, that the war is still being waged until the present even if we don't see bombs going off every day in Germany.

So, in spite of the fact that Germany was being pressured on all sides, they didn't need to take the bait and attack. They could have take Germans out of Poland, they still have valuable trading partners in Romania, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland.

In the case of Germany then, the war was being forced on them regardless of whether they took what might be perceived as "bait" or not. They didn’t have the luxury of waiting to see if forever diplomacy might work because the economic blockade that started in 1933 was already an act of war. Elites within Britain, France, and the US had already begun sabotaging German economy and international trade while at the same time anti-German propaganda was growing more aggressive.

The Western powers wanted a war with Germany before both a continental European superpower emerged and the financial freedom situation escalated with too many other nations trying to follow Hitler's economic lead, and Hitler knew this. This isn’t simply a case of responding to a diplomatic provocation when Germany was already under siege from an economic and ideological war designed to cripple its resurgence.

Focusing on what Germany could have done in the theoretical absence of external pressures doesn't consider the fact that Germany’s geopolitical situation was extremely dire and couldn't afford to be abstractly theoretical back then. The idea that Germany had unlimited time to wait on diplomacy or that trade with countries like Romania, Norway, and Sweden would sustain them ignores the fact that these trading partners were increasingly under pressure themselves. Britain and France were actively working to cut off Germany's access to essential resources like oil, rubber, and metals, and the longer Germany waited, the more difficult it would have been to sustain even these relatively secure trade relations.

You have suggested before that Germany should have just relocated millions of Germans out of the territories seized after Versailles. This is numerically difficult to accomplish. It completely ignores Germany’s population issues. The Reich was already overpopulated and desperately needed its former territories. There was no space to absorb the millions of displaced Germans within pre-1938 Germany. The domestic political pressure to reunite Germany was intense, even before Hitler became Chancellor in 1933. Whoever became the leader of Germany in the 1930s if it wasn't Hitler would have had to face the same issues, but no one else had a plan for these, not one of the other 32 political parties had any clear goal of reunification or liberation from financial enslavement.

Hitler had finessed 6 years of pursuing diplomatic means to resolve these issues (Munich Agreement, Anschluss) without firing a single shot and had come so close to the completed plan of national sovereignty, but the British backing of Polish intransigence is something that has forever been shielded from historians. The Western powers had long been committed to preventing Germany from becoming an sovereign, independent power, and Hitler knew he had limited time to act before that economic strangulation took a permanent effect.

Switzerland in particular could have served as a trading market for whatever goods Germany lacked. They were always the middle men and there was no reason why Germany couldn't rely on them.

Despite its neutrality Switzerland was heavily influenced by the Anglo-French containment strategy. From the early 1930s Britain and France began pressuring neutral countries including Switzerland to limit their trade with Germany. Any substantial trade relationship would have been risky for Switzerland, and as a small neutral nation, it would have been subject to pressure from both the Allies and from other neutral countries to avoid becoming too closely tied to Germany. Switzerland was able to mediate trade, but it had to be extremely cautious about its dealings with the Axis.

Again Germany needed vast quantities of raw materials such as oil, iron ore, rubber, and strategic metals that Switzerland simply could not supply in meaningful quantities. The Swiss economy was geared towards finance, watchmaking, and small-scale industry not the heavy industry required to fuel Germany's peacetime construction projects nor its wartime defense apparatus. The idea that Germany could have relied on Switzerland to supply such resources was not feasible.

Any long-term reliance on Switzerland would have been incredibly precarious especially once Switzerland’s supply routes were threatened by Allied control over surrounding territories. The economic war being waged by the Allies, and their ability to cut off vital supply chains, would have made such a strategy untenable, and impractical to the business-savvy Swiss.

Germany needed access to secure, direct supply routes, which is why controlling territories like the Baltic Sea, the Sudetenland with its deposits, and the Balkans (to prevent British access to Eastern Europe) was critical for ensuring Germany’s future survival and economic independence. Without those reliance on Switzerland alone would have been a dangerous gamble that would not have provided enough support in the face of growing international pressure and definitely not once the Allied bombings started.

Would it have meant Germany would have lost money? Sure. But it still would have been cheaper than WW2. They just needed to keep defending, teching up, and they would have surpassed their opponents. Hell, a nuke would have been absolutely crazy for Germany. They were probably 5-7 years away, and they could have nuked Moscow. No need to send millions of Germans to their deaths.

The assumption that German scientists would naturally outpace the Allies given enough time is debatable. In many ways they already had become 50 years ahead of the rest of the world with the acceleration of their innovations that we take for granted today, but most of these innovations came from national pride. The men were given free reign by the NSDAP to focus their efforts on programs to help the revival of Germany that were either nonexistent or stymied during Weimar. Historically nuclear research was not prioritized in Germany the way it was in the US under the Manhattan Project, and Hitler himself was skeptical of atomic weapons as a practical war tool he wanted to use atomic research to empower the country against industrialist control grids like the Rockefellers and other giants. The "Germany nukes Moscow" scenario is not realistic.

Hitler was an impatient man, and perhaps many Germans were that way, but if they maintained a cool head and avoided the provocations, then they would have come out on top. Most likely the USSR would have invaded Eastern Europe and Germany could have counter attacked, and Americans would have stayed neutral. There wouldn't have been a lend-lease act for the USSR if America had stayed neutral and Germany would have crushed the USSR in self-defense.

The assumption that if Germany had been passive and ignored the Anglo-French containment policies that Stalin would have eventually rolled through Eastern Europe giving Germany the perfect excuse for a counterattack is interesting but when we look at what was going on, it would not have happened this way. This overlooks the Soviet Weakness in the 1930s: Stalin’s purges had decimated the Red Army making it incapable of launching a major European invasion from 1937 until 1941. Their performance in Finland the winter of 1939 without major Lend-Lease was evidence of this. In fact Hitler exploited this by misleading Stalin into continuing purges in 1937 (the Tukhachevsky incident).

Britain and France had already signaled that they would not tolerate German territorial recovery. If Germany had done nothing, Stalin wouldn’t have moved first; rather, the West would have continued to isolate and strangle Germany economically and if somehow the Polish situation failed they would find another way to attack Germany, the drafts were written up for so many war plans in the British military. They would have done what Stalin was betting on from the beginning, for the various European powers, blindly led by Britain and France, to wear themselves out in a little war before he steamrolled in and claimed the remains for himself.

It is not a historical reality to think that Germany could have avoided war indefinitely. They were already under siege as the Western powers encirclement strategy put in motion accelerated economic strangulation. There is also the diplomatic isolation that the NSDAP German ambassadors experienced in the League of Nations, especially when they brought the cases of all the territorial issues to them.

The Danzig issue was not just a minor diplomatic spat, it was a serious flashpoint exacerbated by Polish militarization and oppression of Germans. The British and French war itch was made clear by their military guarantees to Poland (which were completely irrational from a strategic standpoint) meant to provoke Germany into a no-win situation. I know it sounds easy to say that Hitler should have sat back, had a pint of Weiss and thought it over some more, but out of everyone negotiating, he was almost to the point of prostrating himself before them just for an agreement. They were purposefully dodging conclusive negotiations that were very beneficial to all parties involved, especially England and Poland, because they had an irrational desire to destroy Germany via war.

I will include the pre-war Polish proposals and negotiations here to expand for those who want to read them.

Hitler made at least six formal diplomatic proposals and round of talks to Poland between October 1938 and August 1939, offering peaceful solutions to the Danzig and Polish Corridor disputes. Each of these was rejected by the Polish government under either Josef Beck or Marshal Edward Rydz-Smigly, especially when they were encouraged by Britain’s unconditional war guarantee to Poland in March 1939.

1. October 1938 - First round of German offers
-Germany proposed returning Danzig to the Reich (since it was over 95% ethnic German and had been separated from Germany by Versailles).
-In exchange Germany offered Poland a 25-year non-aggression pact, Polish economic rights in Danzig, and a German-built highway/railroad through the Polish Corridor to connect East Prussia with the Reich.
-Poland rejected this outright.

2. January 1939 - Second round of German offers
-Hitler invited Polish Foreign Minister Jozef Beck to discuss further peaceful cooperation.
-Hitler reaffirmed his previous offer, emphasizing that Poland would retain full economic access to the Baltic, and that German-Polish relations would improve.
-Beck dismissed the proposal under pressure from Britain.

3. March 1939 - German Proposals after the British and Allied War Guarantees
-After Britain and France gave Poland a "blank check" war guarantee on March 31, 1939 Poland became completely belligerent in negotiations.
-Hitler still sought diplomacy, offering a plebiscite (referendum) in the Corridor and Danzig, allowing the populations to choose their future.
-Poland categorically refused believing Britain would back them in war.

4. May - June 1939 Germany offers multiple Diplomatic Summits
-Hitler still avoiding war requested direct German-Polish talks in Berlin.
-Poland refused to send any delegates and instead increased its military deployments along the German border.
-Polish newspapers and politicians openly called for war against Germany, with Rydz-Śmigły boasting that the Polish Army would “march on Berlin.”

5. On August 29, 1939, Germany sent Poland a 16-point peace plan, offering:
-Return of Danzig to Germany
-A plebiscite in the Polish Corridor (with Poland keeping guaranteed access to the sea)
-Mutual non-aggression pact with Poland
-A joint German-Polish alliance against the USSR
Poland never responded. Instead Polish forces intensified their attacks on ethnic Germans in Danzig and the Corridor.

6. August 31 1939 - Hitler's Last Attempt for Peaceful negotiations:
-Hitler personally delayed military action multiple times, hoping Poland would negotiate.
-The German ambassador in Warsaw tried to present one last peace offer but was ignored.
-That same day Polish forces shelled German positions near the border, and Polish paramilitary groups began massacring ethnic Germans in Bromberg and other regions leading up to Bloody Sunday.

Hitler was the man in charge, he assumed King status, so the buck stops with him. Verdict: terrible strategy.

The winner-centric reductionist take is the easy path here. This is a moralizing simplification that conflates the failure of war with personal incompetence. In this thinking if a leader "loses" they must have made a series of strategic mistakes that were avoidable hence your final judgment of “terrible strategy.” This completely ignores the crucial element of the impossibility of total control over external factors including economic strangulation, the entry of multiple fronts in the war, and the lack of viable diplomatic options. So, by saying "the buck stops with Hitler," you are imposing a moral absolutism without addressing the contextual realities Hitler faced.

This is reducing history to a binary of success or failure. Yes Hitler was the leader but what you’re ignoring is that his decisions were constrained by external factors far beyond his control. The economic strangulation of Germany, the guarantees given to Poland by Britain and France, and the multiplicity of enemies Germany faced were not easily overcome by even the most brilliant strategy. Some nations were never going to ally with Germany no matter what, especially the United States under FDR (maybe under Huey Long but the cabal saw that coming and got rid of him).

It’s easy to say with hindsight that Hitler should have simply performed better, but this overlooks the obscene geopolitical pressures and the fact that Germany was, in many ways, already trapped. History is not about whether a leader can always make the perfect strategic choice, it’s about the choices available under extreme circumstances.

No one can control how the world reacts to their actions, and Hitler’s strategy was based on what he believed was necessary for Germany's survival. His loss wasn’t because of personal incompetence it was due to forces outside his control that no amount of brilliance could have changed. When we judge a leader based solely on whether they won or lost, then we’re falling into a trap of reducing human agency to nothing more than an arbitrary result.

You focus on how Hitler should have been better this way or that way but this assumption is rooted in a moral framework that defines ‘right’ solely by victory. If we view history only through the lens of ‘winners are always right,’ then we overlook the human cost of conflict and the real, permeable, tangible, and uncontrollable forces that shape the outcomes of war. It’s easy to say, ‘He could have done better,’ but leaders don’t always have the luxury of making the perfect decision, especially when the world is closing in on them.

If anything your need for simplicity, this drive to reduce complex realities to black-and-white judgments of right and wrong, betrays an inner desire for control and certainty as though the chaos of history could be navigated through sheer willpower. This is ultimately a psychological mechanism for avoiding ambiguity as the moral mind wants to avoid confronting gray areas and complexity in favor of clear, digestible judgments.

What are you truly judging here? You are judging results. And when you judge based solely on outcomes, the binary of success vs. failure, you risk missing the profound. You’re assigning moral worth to the outcome not the process of leadership. If we judged all leaders based solely on success or failure then every leader who loses is a moral failure and every winner is inherently virtuous. I know you don't believe this because you recognize how many winners in history are rotten people.

If we judge Hitler by the outcome we are judging him solely with the benefit of hindsight, something that no one at the time had. You said above that victory doesn’t always reflect the righteousness of a cause (like we have seen with 80 years of an Allied victory). Likewise a loss doesn’t reflect failure in strategy if the cards are stacked against you from the beginning (in the case of Germany).
 
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While agreeing with the the bigger picture you are able to see about World War 2, Piano, I disagree that Rhodesia was deeply entrenched in a colonial mindset. They declared UDI against the pomegranates to disconnect themselves from any colonial links and observe complete highly successful autonomy. Same as what the USA did. It's amazing how the Brits who lived it up there, in the sun and open space, all gapped it when the country went pear shaped. They needed to stay to show their gratitude to Mugabe who they installed. The similarity, on two different scales, is that it shows what happens when countries try to go against the narrative or in it's entirety, the tentacles of the banking system.
 
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Very similar discussion and argumentation to this thread in this article :
 
Very similar discussion and argumentation to this thread in this article :
This is a refreshing article to see on that website. Unz is a jew, despite being anti-israel, and most of his WW2 articles get their sources from other distraction-revisionist types that are allowed to discuss WW2 from angles that perpetuate unreal fantasies surrounding or preceding the war, or belittling Hitler with absurd claims. Henry Makow is another jew who runs a "truther" website similar to Unz.

Unlike previous Unz WW2 articles, this one basically calls out most of what the smears are in the present day, 80 years of living under Allied foreign policy: jewish materialism.

He hits the nail on the head with the economic control factor here:

unzWW2article1.jpg

And the blame factor circus here:

unzWW2article2.jpg

Those of us who know honor know how to blame accordingly.

This comment stood out to me from the various haters and bots and spam:

unzWW2articlecomment1.jpg
"War is started by the one who makes it inevitable".
 
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This is something I've been thinking about lately :
It is not in the interest of New York-London bankers to allow the very existence of functioning, sovereign governments. You either submit to Jewish Money, or you risk being overthrown.
Well, the allow the very existence part. I'm not personally 100% sure who it is that will not allow the very existence but definitely some hidden elites won't leave certain regimes alone.

A lot of regimes around the world are not left in peace, not that they are necessarily bothering other countries, but out of the fear that their philosophies might spread.

Wasn't the Vietnam war and the Korean war out of a fear that communism would spread?

As was the cold war against Russia.

Then, apartheid South Africa was not left in peace either. Well it was for a period of decades but eventually fell out of favour. Not sure if that was because the powers at the time changed their minds about it or if the treatment of the non-whites got too bad in later decades.

Then of course, Germany was not allowed to have its third way, national socialism. Why could that part of Europe not be left in peace to have it's own regime, also fear that it would spread? If there is any simple answer it may be because they attacked towards the west. They not only were fighting communism to the east but invaded lots of western countries, France, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway. So not sure if they asked for it by being too ambitious with Lebensraum or if they were just not left in peace because of their NS political system.
 
This is something I've been thinking about lately :

Well, the allow the very existence part. I'm not personally 100% sure who it is that will not allow the very existence but definitely some hidden elites won't leave certain regimes alone.

A lot of regimes around the world are not left in peace, not that they are necessarily bothering other countries, but out of the fear that their philosophies might spread.

Wasn't the Vietnam war and the Korean war out of a fear that communism would spread?

As was the cold war against Russia.

Then, apartheid South Africa was not left in peace either. Well it was for a period of decades but eventually fell out of favour. Not sure if that was because the powers at the time changed their minds about it or if the treatment of the non-whites got too bad in later decades.

Then of course, Germany was not allowed to have its third way, national socialism. Why could that part of Europe not be left in peace to have it's own regime, also fear that it would spread? If there is any simple answer it may be because they attacked towards the west. They not only were fighting communism to the east but invaded lots of western countries, France, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway. So not sure if they asked for it by being too ambitious with Lebensraum or if they were just not left in peace because of their NS political system.
When it comes to international finance, no, they cannot allow a people to live freely. The post-WW2 cold war proxy theaters were just that. It was a warm cooperation at the top because both worldviews are antipodal, meaning one cannot exist without the other. Capitalist plutocracy and Marxist communism beget one another, and give the other a reason for it's existence. The conditions created by robber barons leave the hungry masses gobbling up the utopia of the proletariat.

South Africa it took longer to deconstruct the Ethnostate of Whites there because it was Africa, and if you look at that time you will see similar retainment of pro-White policies in decline (US until 1965, AUS until 1967/75, Western Europe until the late 70s/80s). The South African situation was blown up in the late 80s as the communists were released from prison and their jewish mouthpieces were agitating for "Equality" ad nauseum in the west.

Don't forget, in the case of Germany and the other western countries, it had nothing to do with Lebensraum, which is another rabbit hole of accusations levied against Germany by people who do not understand the demographics back then. Germany responded to aggression from the west, it did not "attack" them as if it was unprovoked. The invasions and occupations of each of the western countries were done long after war was declared on Germany, and there were carried out swiftly with minimal to no loss of life, and were all done in tandem with British war plans (who had been bombing Germany for months before any ground action took place). The low countries were occupied to prevent English landing, the Scandinavian countries were occupied to prevent British interference of resources and staging grounds for easier bombing raids, and France was a belligerent, it declared war on Germany and provoked the German military on the border numerous times, sending French forces into small incursions into Germany on land before the German blitzkrieg made short work by circumventing their pointless Maginot line.

In each of those countries, what did we see? The "government-in-exile" abandoned their people and fled to London like cowards while a national leader took charge and allied the people with Germany. Petain and Lavalle in France, Degrelle in Belgium (with others in Rex), Mussert in the Netherlands/Holland, Kaupisch and Scavenius in Denmark, Quisling in Norway etc. It's telling that each of those countries sent thousands of volunteers (not drafted or conscripted men) to the east to fight bolshevism of their own accord.

The main misconception about Lebensraum is that people assume the Germans wanted to Germanize all of continental Europe with their own people. Hitler made no demands for this, especially along the western borders. There were significant populations of Germans outside of Germany, which is why the concept of Lebensraum is brought up in this time period. Why? Because Germany was geographically fractured and millions of those Germans were living in re-drawn territories, a German majority ruled over by a foreign ethnic governate.

The Lebensraum issue with the East is where many critics tend to direct this claim. There is a much larger history here that people are almost completely devoid of mentioning. The German-Russian connection goes back centuries, look no further than the house of Romanov.

The direct male line of the Romanovs actually ended in 1762 when empress Elizabeth died childless. As a result the Russian throne passed to her nephew Peter III who was a member of the House of Holstein-Gottorp (a cadet branch of the German House of Oldenburg that reigned in Denmark). He adopted his Romanov mother's house name; it was officially Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov.

Peter was a German-born prince of Prussia who married Catherine the Great, who was also a minor German princess, so the entire "Russian" royal family was actually German.

She overthrew Peter then famously went on to be a beloved ruler. She created the Pale of Settlement to contain the jews after the third and final Partition of Poland so they couldn't exploit all her people.

She also invited industrious German farmers into Rus lands. Over the centuries hundreds of thousands of Germans immigrated and were welcomed because they were so ingenious and friendly as neighbors.

Germanics also became prominent officials in all the Tsarist governments because they were also highly educated. They were very well respected by the (Rus) Russians, whose lands were very backwards given the number of Asiatics they had to contend with.

Look at this map:

GermanSettlementsinEurope.webp

The presence of Germans in Eastern Europe, even in Rus lands, wasn't some nefarious thing: Lebensraum wasn't even invented by Hitler. You can see the the two major Ukrainian settlements. Germans near Crimea were called the Black Sea Germans, the Schwarzmeerdeutsche.

A large group even settled as far east as the Volga River where they become known as the Wolgadeutsche: that large settlement under the writing on the map.

They (hundreds of thousands) were hauled off to Siberia as soon as the German invasion started. And at the end of WW2 when all of eastern Europe (and Prussia/ East Germany) was ethnically cleansed of Germanics, they were liquidated by Stalin's orders.

The major German-Russian ethnic conflict was a 20th century thing fomented by the jew and (((communism))). That's why the Germans were welcomed as liberators by all the Russian/Ukrainian peasants as they moved into territory in the east. The National Socialists never wanted to "exterminate" the Slavs.

AHandHessvsComintern.webp
 
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MFTP brings out a tremendous amount of detail that the public was never informed of. It is a lot and it's easy to drown in bickering about this and that. What is fundamentally important is the fact that the satanic, jewish, Rothschild oligarchy has captured England and has acted like an octopus ever since strangling and wiping out it's economic, political but above all else spiritual enemies. Everyone who read EMJ knows why Germany grown into such economic powerhouse up to 20th century. This was a serious rival to the City of London which has ruthless, satanic hegemony as it's goal. With this in mind all the various facts about WW1&2 are falling into place and no anal "ackchyually" nose picking will sway the fundamental reason of all that's happened. Second and Third Reich stood on the path of the Rothschilds (like many European monarchs e.g. Nicolas II) just as the citizens of Europe stand today. Like Hitler or not but he made a flawed but virtuous attempt at stopping the greatest of evils this side of the material world.
 
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1919 was the Treaty of Versaille, 1929 was a serious stockmarket crash on Wall Street.

1929 to 1939 was the Great Depression.

Hitler was elected chancellor in 1933.

A gap in my knowledge and possibly this thread are the details of what the London and New York bankers, and Rothschild's specifically did in the 1920s after the Treaty of Versaille to corner Germany in such a way that WW2 was provoked.

the exchange value of the mark fell from 320 marks per dollar in mid 1922 to 7,400 marks per US dollar by December 1922. This hyperinflation continued into 1923, and by November 1923, one US dollar was worth 4,210,500,000,000 marks.

A loaf of bread in Berlin that cost around 160 marks at the end of 1922 cost 200,000,000,000 or 200 billion (2×1011) marks by late 1923.
With that kind of madness, no wonder other extreme events happened not that long after.

People developed a "zeroes" disorder :

The zero stroke disorder was supposedly caused by the dizzying speed of hyperinflation and the calculations required to conduct commerce under its effect. It has been said that during the worst period of hyperinflation that in the time it took to drink a cup of coffee, the price for the cup could double. The fast pace of hyperinflation caused people to quickly buy goods when they received their wages. Workers would demand to be paid at the beginning of the day for their work and after they were paid, they would be given half an hour to run off to buy goods before their earnings became worthless.
That outdoes anything we've seen in our lifetimes, even Covid.. Having something get a lot more expensive in the space of half an hour would make people very, very angry.

What is dubious about the Wikipedia articles is that it talks about what happened, but then says that economists could never say for sure what the exact cause was.

That sounds more like a cover-up for the cause which would create too much outrage if everyone knew what it was.
 
Like Hitler or not but he made a flawed catastrophic but virtuous attempt at stopping the greatest of evils this side of the material world.

Fixed that for ya.

By the way, plenty of leaders went up against insane odds yet came out on top. Those are the ones blessed by God, such as Constantine the Great. Those were intelligent men. God never knew Hitler.
 
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