After doing some research of my own, I've developed a thesis on the topic of why this thread is at post #221, with over 2 million words... and this is just the beginning:
You have trouble understanding hypotheticals, don't you? I'm talking about why invading as Germany did was foolish and the point sails right over your head.
I perfectly understand hypotheticals, but yours are unrealistic and ignorant of actual historical details. These events have been lied about more than any other history for very specific reasons, so unless you're willing to spend the time understanding the explicit economic, linguistic, religious, and ethnic regionalisms and altercations that were exploited by international powers, you do not know the origins of this war.
It doesn't matter if France or England responded to the USSR, although there was a good chance they would have (you know nothing), because international opinion would have been completely on Hitler's side had Hitler come to Poland's rescue in response.
You see this is again proof of how much you just don't know about England and France's intentions with Germany going back even before WWI. England and France were absolutely never going to allow a strong continental power is a fundamental misunderstanding on your part. The idea is intolerable to the British Empire. The events leading up to both World Wars were orchestrated by a global financial syndicate designed to keep continental powers fragmented and weak. England, in particular, under its jewish dominion, has a long history of preventing any single nation from gaining dominance on the European continent.
You don't understand how the jews and their servants caused WWI, and you don't understand what they intended to force upon the continent before that war began. Do you know who was in the train car in Versailles? Do you know who set the conditions for Germany to live as a broken vassal in eternal financial slavery? You’re ignoring the fact that the international system was designed to keep Germany in check and prevent any resurgence of self-determination.
After WWI both nations were deeply entrenched in maintaining the status quo dictated by the Treaty of Versailles. England was willing to make economic and military deals with the USSR, but their goal was never to support the rise of a powerful German state. England and France were wholly committed to ensuring Germany remained weak, economically broken, and politically divided. They would never have stood by Hitler because they were more interested in enforcing the conditions of Versailles, which included the dismemberment of Germany in many regions not just what the new state of Poland took. Poland literally became a country on November 18th, 1918.
The Poles were an ethnicity in partitions of the Russian, Prussian, Austrian Empires and the Lithuanian Commonwealth hence why they were so new to governing and easily manipulated by long entrenched powers like Britain and France.
America wouldn't have supported the USSR with the Lend-Lease Act, nor would have they been to physically invade later on because domestic opinion in America would have remained isolationist. Japan may or may have not attacked but Germany could have left them to their own fate.
Clearly the actions of FDR and America were hostile against Germany long before the war. I posted the timeline which you purposefully ignored.
FDR was responsible for the Polish situation because he wanted there to be a war in Europe. You never bring up FDR, why haven't you ever looked into America's dozens of hostile actions against Germany before the war? You must have never studied FDR's foreign policies. You never mention the talmudic Morgenthau and the rest of the jews behind FDR in his "Brain Trust" organization.
You just conveniently ignore everything that the USA actually did in our real history. Here they are once again, for you to purposefully ignore once more. We could have an entire thread just on how much of a dirtbag FDR was:
-March 4, 1933 – FDR inaugurated as US President. Shortly after his administration begins economic policies that harm Germany endorsing the jewish boycott. -1933-34 – Roosevelt administration boycotts German goods through jewish international banking networks aiming to weaken Germany’s economic recovery. -June 1934 – Nye Committee begins investigating US arms manufacturers revealing that American financiers played a role in fueling WWI while FDR secretly prepares for another war. -August 1935 – US Congress passes the Neutrality Act of 1935 prohibiting arms sales to warring nations. However FDR bypasses these laws to aid Britain and France materially. -July 1937 – FDR publicly calls for a “quarantine of aggressor nations” (meaning Germany, Italy, and Japan), despite America’s supposed neutrality. -March 1939 – Britain and France, under American influence, give Poland a blank-check war guarantee against Germany. This emboldens Polish leaders to reject German diplomatic negotiations over Danzig and the Polish Corridor. -April-May 1939 – Germany presents multiple peaceful proposals to Poland but they are rejected due to British and American diplomatic assurances. -August 23, 1939 – The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is signed between Germany and the USSR to divide Poland up into spheres of influence -September 1, 1939 – Germany retaliates and invades Poland to cease Polish atrocities against ethnic Germans and its refusal to negotiate over Danzig. -September 3, 1939 – Britain and France declare war on Germany. -September 5, 1939 – FDR refuses to declare neutrality and begins openly supporting Britain and France against Germany. -September 8, 1939 – Germany recovers Warsaw documents showing American promises of support to Poland from FDR. -April 9, 1940 – FDR condemns Germany’s occupation of Norway and Denmark but remains silent on Soviet occupation of the Baltic states and Finland. -June 10, 1940 – FDR gives a speech calling for the military defeat of Germany despite America’s official neutrality. -July 1940 – FDR pressures Congress to increase military spending and expand US armed forces preparing for war. -September 2, 1940 – The Destroyers-for-Bases Deal is signed giving Britain 50 US warships in exchange for military bases, a clear violation of neutrality. -October 1940 – Selective Service Act is passed, instituting a peacetime draft for the first time in U.S. history. -November 1940 – FDR is reelected after falsely promising, “Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars.”
-March 11, 1941 – The Lend-Lease Act is signed making the US the arsenal for Britain and the Soviet Union, effectively ending neutrality. -April 11, 1941 – US forces seize 64 Axis civilian merchant ships in American ports including 28 German vessels and imprison their crews. -June 22, 1941 – Germany pre-emptively invades the Soviet Union who were in offensive positions. FDR openly and immediately pledges support to Stalin. -July 1941 – FDR freezes German assets in the US cutting off financial access. -July-August 1941 – The Atlantic Charter is signed between Roosevelt and Churchill outlining war aims against Germany despite the US not being in the war yet. -September 4, 1941 – The USS Greer Incident: A US destroyer tracks and provokes a German U-boat, leading to an exchange of fire. Roosevelt uses this as an excuse to order a shoot-on-sight policy against German ships. -October 17, 1941 – The USS Kearny is torpedoed after engaging German submarines. Roosevelt claims this is an unprovoked attack. -October 31, 1941 – The USS Reuben James is sunk while escorting British supply ships in violation of neutrality, 115 US sailors died. This was the first open loss of American lives in the undeclared naval war against Germany. -November 6, 1941 – The US Navy captures the civilian German merchant ship S.S. Odenwald and imprisons its crew without trial. -December 7, 1941 – Japan attacks Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt had imposed economic sanctions, blockades, and embargoes on Japan for months, forcing them into a retaliatory response that was known ahead of time and allowed to happen. -December 11, 1941 – Germany finally declares war on the United States after repeated violations of neutrality and acts of war against Germany, ending the years long pretense of neutrality and isolationism on behalf of America.
Here is a similar timeline for the USA and the USSR:
-November 16, 1933 –FDR formally recognizes the Soviet Union diplomatically beginning a warm period of US-Soviet relations. Roosevelt believed that recognition would help foster trade relations and also counteract the spread of National Socialism.
-1934 – The US and Soviet Union begin trading in earnest though US exports were limited. The Soviet government sought American industrial goods and technological expertise to help develop its economy and heavy industry.
-1935 – The US agrees to extend most-favored-nation (MFN) status to the Soviet Union which allows Soviet exports to enter the US at preferential rates. In return, the USSR begins purchasing American machinery, chemicals, and other goods.
-1936-1937 – American companies in the agricultural and industrial sectors begin to increase exports to the Soviet Union. The Soviets buy machinery, oil equipment, and chemicals from the US while the US gains access to Soviet raw materials like grain, oil, and other natural resources.
-American engineers, technicians, and technical experts help with the construction of Soviet infrastructure including factories and power plants. One of the most famous examples is the construction of the Magnitogorsk steel mill.
-1939 – While Britain and France are pushing to move toward war, US-Soviet trade continues to expand. The Soviet Union increasingly looks to the US for technological and industrial support particularly in aviation and military industries.
The US does not push for any sanctions or military actions against the USSR despite Stalin's aggressive policies in Eastern Europe even after his invasion of Finland in the start of the Winter War.
-1940 – The US continues to provide the Soviet Union with industrial goods, technology, and machinery. The USSR's military industrialization is greatly assisted by American expertise. American oil companies increase their sales to the Soviet Union helping Stalin's regime bolster its energy supplies.
-FDR's administration remains diplomatic and refrains from condemning continued Soviet territorial expansions,. While many Americans criticized Soviet actions, Roosevelt kept a silent stance and instead criticized everything Germany did.
-March 11, 1941 – The Lend-Lease Act is signed into law ending any pretense of US neutrality in WWII. The US begins providing massive economic and military aid to Britain, China, and later that year to the Soviet Union. FDR's prior diplomacy and trade with the Soviets paved the way for this assistance.
-June 22, 1941 – Operation Barbarossa. Roosevelt immediately offers his support to Stalin, despite the previous ideological divide between the US and the Soviet Union..
-July 1941 – Roosevelt freezes German assets in the US breaking totally with Germany whilst also shipping large amounts of military supplies to the USSR under the Lend-Lease program. This assistance continues uninterrupted throughout the war.
-August 14, 1941 – Roosevelt and Churchill meet aboard a ship off the coast of Newfoundland and sign the Atlantic Charter, which outlines the war aims of the Allied powers, including the Soviet Union in the framework. The Charter emphasizes the right of all nations to choose their own form of government, which turned out to be another massive lie on their behalf after the war.
All of that Commie loving was still before the Dec 11th declaration of war. Only a massive undereducated simpleton thinks that Germany was the aggressor in this war.
The simple fact of the matter is that if Hitler knew that attacking Poland would have resulted in a war with GermanyEngland, France, and then Russia, then he needed a plan to deal with all 3. He did not, and got his country genocided.
This isn't a simple fact, it's a superficial excuse for ignoring the causes of war.
Hitler didn’t ‘lack a plan’ he was boxed into a corner by Western powers that had been hostile towards the German nation since before he even rose to power. Poland was the trigger, not the cause. Britain and France had already guaranteed Poland's defense, a fact you ignore, while simultaneously ignoring their refusal to act against the USSR for doing the same thing in 1939.
Hitler knew full well that a war with Britain and France was inevitable especially after they guaranteed Polish sovereignty in 1939. He also recognized the growing Soviet threat long before that.
But let’s not pretend you understand the complexities here. His only real options were limited. Poland had been violently abusing ethnic Germans in Danzig and the Polish Corridor for years and economically ruling over a supposedly "Free City", and FDR had already been undermining Germany's recovery with embargoes, financing Britain, and imposing policies aimed at weakening Germany.
Your ‘genocide’ claim is a shallow victim narrative. The geopolitical situation forced Hitler’s hand and your inability to grasp these facts makes your statements historically false.
He would have been better off doing nothing, in fact, considering Nazi propaganda says the German economy was a miracle, and tech and science was booming, all they had to do was continue to build up and they eventually would have completely surpassed their opponents.
Let’s pretend you understand the geopolitical dynamics of the time. Hitler’s economic ‘miracle’ didn’t just happen because of ‘booming science and tech,’ it happened despite relentless opposition from international power brokers who were committed to keeping Germany in economic and political chains.
You conveniently forget the fact that Germany was being systematically strangled by the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, and constant sabotage from both Western and Eastern powers, who didn’t want a resurgent Germany. The German economic recovery was a direct response to the policies of international financiers and Marxist powers that sought to prevent Germany from ever being independent or economically strong again.
You don’t seem to grasp that Germany wasn’t allowed to recover in peace; the world powers that had forced Germany into ruin didn’t want any country challenging their monopoly, especially not Germany. So, no, ‘doing nothing’ was never an option. The fact that you don’t understand this only shows how shallow your understanding of history is. Hitler acted because he knew that inaction would mean Germany’s complete and permanent subjugation while the world powers would continue to enforce their exploitative system without challenge.
Supposedly Germany wasn't even far from a nuke, if they had that kind of inertia then it made no sense for them to attack first and throw all all international support. It would have been a far superior strategy to out-tech and out-build their enemies.
What fantasy world are you living in? Germany was already treated like an international pariah long before the war,with Britain, France, and the US doing everything in their power to cripple its economic recovery and ensure it remained subjugated.
The idea that ‘waiting’ would have given Germany some golden opportunity is ridiculous. While Germany was under embargoes, constant sabotage, and financial restrictions, the Soviet Union and the Western Allies were building up unimpeded.
As for the nuclear question, Germany lacked the vast industrial resources and uranium enrichment capabilities that the US had, making your ‘they should have waited for nukes’ argument anachronistic nonsense. They began making successful innovations in free energy which pissed off the international jewish powers even more, and Germanic minds are not devious like jewish minds. They began nuclear research for the purpose of energy and life, not destruction and death.
Meanwhile the Allies were already setting the stage for war; the longer Germany waited the worse its strategic position became. But keep peddling this armchair hindsight as if it’s some profound revelation.
But, Hitler was a retard with no plan, and had no plan to deal with Britain after France, tried to fight a two front war, needlessly made enemies with America, and got his country crushed.
You ignore the fact that Hitler's decisions were driven by the reality that Germany had been cornered and systematically undermined for decades by international powers who had no intention of ever letting Germany recover.
As for fighting a two-front war, Germany was faced with a choice between submission and self-preservation, Hitler didn’t create the situation where Britain and France declared war. They did that. And if you think his plans were 'flawed,' explain how he managed to nearly conquer Europe while fighting the world’s greatest empires, despite facing unprecedented global opposition.
You want to reduce it all to name-calling and demonizing Hitler, but the truth is far more complex. Your simplistic ‘no plan’ narrative is nothing but lazy revisionism, Hitler acted in the face of overwhelming odds and global powers determined to keep Germany down. His country was crushed by the same international forces that had plotted its destruction for decades and your inability to grasp this shows just how little you understand the real forces behind the war.
This medieval-tier superstition masquerading as historical insight is a joke.
The ‘results speak for themselves’ indeed. Germany was forced into a war it tried to avoid surrounded by hostile superpowers determined to strangle it economically and militarily no matter what course of action it took.
The real 'false prophets' were the hypocrites in Britain and America who claimed to fight for freedom while funding Stalin’s blood-drenched regime and selling their nations out to international finance.
The real ‘demonic possession’ was the firebombing of civilians, the post-war starvation policies, and the total erasure of truth to preserve the victors’ self-righteous myths. But of course egotists like you don’t look beyond slogans and faux-morality tales, you just parrot the same empty clichés and call it history.
The truth is coming out in greater numbers reaching masses of Christians in far more relevant platforms and mediums than the traffic this forum is receiving under your gatekeeping.
Contribute some interesting historical details in this thread. It is clear to many members here what you are doing. I am willing to engage with you if you actually debate reasonably and stop concocting unresearched assumptions. I had my own criticisms of Hitler, but I have dispelled most of them because I have done deeper research and found them to be lies.
-August 23, 1939 – The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is signed between Germany and the USSR to divide Poland up into spheres of influence -September 1, 1939 – Germany retaliates and invades Poland to cease Polish atrocities against ethnic Germans and its refusal to negotiate over Danzig. -September 3, 1939 – Britain and France declare war on Germany. -September 5, 1939 – FDR refuses to declare neutrality and begins openly supporting Britain and France against Germany.
And this is where it all went downhill for American opinion of Germany, had they stayed out, America wouldn't have gotten involved. There was simply no appetite in America for foreign involvement before this point.
Hitler believed he was above world opinion and it backfired terribly on Germany. Keeping a moral high ground was necessary for international relations.
That you are unable to understand this shows the poverty of your intellect, and the difference between successful leaders like Putin vs. Hitler. Putin faced a similar situation as did Germany but wisely decided to wait. They waited 7 years before attacking Ukraine so they could gather international support first. China has backed Russia throughout the war and it is the reason Russia has been successful.
Germany could have done similar things, especially with America, before attacking Poland, or simply waited for the USSR to attack, and it would have been 100x better outcome for them.
Considering that attacking resulted in a two-front war that got Germany genocided, yes, doing nothing would have been obviously superior. Plenty of nations and peoples have survived under oppression. That you are unaware of such things shows your incredible poverty of historical knowledge.
Let’s pretend you understand the geopolitical dynamics of the time. Hitler’s economic ‘miracle’ didn’t just happen because of ‘booming science and tech,’ it happened despite relentless opposition from international power brokers who were committed to keeping Germany in economic and political chains.
You conveniently forget the fact that Germany was being systematically strangled by the Versailles Treaty, the Great Depression, and constant sabotage from both Western and Eastern powers, who didn’t want a resurgent Germany. The German economic recovery was a direct response to the policies of international financiers and Marxist powers that sought to prevent Germany from ever being independent or economically strong again.
You don’t seem to grasp that Germany wasn’t allowed to recover in peace; the world powers that had forced Germany into ruin didn’t want any country challenging their monopoly, especially not Germany. So, no, ‘doing nothing’ was never an option. The fact that you don’t understand this only shows how shallow your understanding of history is. Hitler acted because he knew that inaction would mean Germany’s complete and permanent subjugation while the world powers would continue to enforce their exploitative system without challenge.
And yet supposedly Hitler delivered the economic miracle in the face of these constraints, then threw it away on a risky invasion. Had Hitler not gambled he could have continued the course of development and eventually surpassed his competitors. Why did he need to gamble like a retard? That's why you don't let your country be dictated by an egomaniac.
Doing nothing would not have resulted in permanent subjugation, otherwise the economic miracle would have never had happened. You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Was Germany a poor impoverished nation governed by an evil dictator? Or a benevolent ruler who provided massive economic reforms that saved Germany?
If the former, then I rest my case Hitler was trash. If the latter, then there was no need to invade. Either way Hitler was garbage.
Try to get past your emotions, and may be able to break free of your mental prison of Hitler worship.
