Relationship advice

Since August of 2022 I have been in a long distance relationship with a woman I met in Albania that summer.

I thought I had 'won' so to speak. She was relatively young (I'm mid 30s and she was mid 20s). She didn't have much experience with men. She seemed pleasant
and reasonable.

All was good when she came to live with me in Poland that winter. She cooked and cleaned while I went out to work. It seemed like a kind of simple enjoyable life.

In retrospect this was a very co-dependent and unhealthy relationship. I was on the phone with her for hours everyday when we were in different countries and completely neglected to build a new life in Poland beyond work. Instead I obsessively fixated on this cocoon type world with her. I was 'in love' and I gained all the positive emotions that came with that but it wasn't very Christian or very balanced. It was obsession.

Also, even when we lived together I don't think it was healthy. The downside of having a woman doting on you at home is it can become a bit of a crutch and the motivation to make friends, develop interests or even go church diminished. I became just ensconced in the love bubble basically. I think probably a long dry spell in the West had me feasting on the joys of romance overly due to deprivation - like a man having spent months in a desert suddenly finding a water fountain.

Anyway eventually she went back to Albania and I spent a few months considering following her before finally heading back to the UK to complete my teaching diploma. Admittedly, she supported me through this period and was helpful with some aspects of my studies in regards to preparing for lessons and making lesson slides. I can't demonise her as some selfish bitch when she did stand by me through not only this difficult period but also the time I was fired from my job. She certainly was not in it for the money as long stretches of time I was unemployed and even losing money and yet she was willing to stick it out (seemingly a mentality maybe more common in Balkan countries I don't know).

We met again in Albania that summer and argued constantly. Behavioural traits I once found endearing or even positive, like her desire to spend all her time with me, suddenly seemed clingy and overbearing. She would moodily react to my own downbeat moods and so constant bickering ensued about one of us being down without adequate explanation...this repeats so often that it makes the idea of monk mode seem incredibly appealing.

After returning to Poland I had a mental breakdown due to uncertainty of what to do next. I also was getting sick of the demand to constantly talk on the phone and realised that in the past year I hadn't really built a support network or friendship group. The thought crossed my mind more obsessively that I was getting devoured by this woman and by love and romance and sex and that I was actually destroying myself with this relationship. How valid were these fears or concerns? How much did they reflect reality vs being ruminations of an unstable mind? I'm not totally sure but I started to want to be out of the relationship. Eventually she broke it off with me and yet...

There was no blocking or anything and within a few weeks the 'break up' got kind of forgotten and she was messaging me still and it kind of just continued on like a limping dying beast.

I was back in the UK and prepared to move back to Poland.

She then offered to visit me in Poland and I very reluctantly accepted this request.

Truth be told, I wanted to use my return to Poland as an attempt to completely rebuild my life. Her coming back as my ex (but not) girlfriend created a lot of confusion. At first I completely resented her presence and asked her to leave after a week but ultimately I ended up getting extremely sick so she stayed longer. She did - to be fair - cook for me and take care of me as I was bed bound. Of course part of me thinks that this period of illness was some sort of punishment perhaps for not living a completely honest life.

Truth be told her visiting me in Poland put a fair bit of pressure on me as she had no friends or job or knowledge of what to do here. Outside of hanging with me, there was nothing for her to do really. I felt quite suffocated by this not to mention the fact I only have a one room apartment made it at it's worst incredibly trapped feeling. There were moments where it was cozy but only really after I got sick and when I completely gave up on the idea of valiantly building a new life for a time. It almost felt like the plot of a thriller like Gone Girl where an evil woman would make their man sick on purpose to pacify them into being in love with them again. I don't believe she did this but it just struck me that was happening. Whether or not she is truly as devious as all that is highly questionable. I think I amplify what I see as her worst qualities in my mind and fixate on them. And yet I can't deny that she is clingy, obsessive and overbearing. She's also reliable and loyal and very doting (on the cooking/cleaning side).

In the last week she left leaving me quite uncertain as to the future. She is already messaging me hoping to arrange another trip or visit while I question how long I should keep this up if my heart is not in it OR if my attempt to wriggle out of it isn't some Peter Pan like evasion of any kind of commitment. Do I really have a better chance with someone else? I don't know.

And that kind of brings us up to the present moment.

Basically I have a woman in my life and I'm not sure I really want to settle down and get married with her. Yet I'm aware that at my age my chances at finding a decent woman are possibly limited and perhaps I am weak to break off this connection off out dependency or co-dependency or whatever.

I'm not sure what I want from all this. Maybe some advice or if anyone had been through something similar, that could help.

Tippy said:

Basically I have a woman in my life and I'm not sure I really want to settle down and get married with her. Yet I'm aware that at my age my chances at finding a decent woman are possibly limited and perhaps I am weak to break off this connection of out dependency or co-dependency or whatever.

Click to expand...

This is my take. Maybe this is your best shot. Maybe you'll encounter other women in the future who are older and you find less desirable.

I would tell her at least some of your qualms and how you want to make it work. Tell her that your attention needs to be rationed, that you need to build a social circle.

For a life-long relationship, you both need to give yourselves to each other. To forget about other prospects, to develop a life path, to find how you live with each other.

Part of this is you - I have lived with people and never had a problem with any of them, as they have to live within my boundaries and I will respect theirs. It is a man's job to establish them.

This is the "Dear Joan" section of the forum..

Tippy said:

I think probably a long dry spell in the West had me feasting on the joys of romance overly due to deprivation - like a man having spent months in a desert suddenly finding a water fountain.

Click to expand...

Oh dear, I was also in some excessively long relationships inspired by dry spells.

Tippy said:

Truth be told her visiting me in Poland put a fair bit of pressure on me as she had no friends or job or knowledge of what to do here. Outside of hanging with me, there was nothing for her to do really. I felt quite suffocated by this not to mention the fact I only have a one room apartment made it at it's worst incredibly trapped feeling. There were moments where it was cozy but only really after I got sick and when I completely gave up on the idea of valiantly building a new life for a time. It almost felt like the plot of a thriller like Gone Girl where an evil woman would make their man sick on purpose to pacify them into being in love with them again.

Click to expand...

I have not seen Gone Girl but definitely know the feeling of your house with a woman feeling like a 'prison'. One room would be worse.

The 'ingredients' here don't seem quite right in as much as you are both migrants to Poland from what you have written. It ended with my ex partly as we were both migrants to somewhere else in Europe. Not sure if you both have similar attitudes towards your home countries, but you may have to deal with a pull back to Albania once she starts having children.

I gave up on "valiantly building a new life for a time" at certain points and it truly lead me to hell. Am back onto it now but at an older age. It's like taking your eyes off the road.

Don't linger in a childless relationship too long. The traditional way would be to only court until married. If you are part of this fallen world though as some of us are then keep relationships with women which are childless short, or you will damage both of your lives.

Tippy said:

it kind of just continued on like a limping dying beast

Click to expand...

That you can even write that is a bad sign, funny way to put it, but a sign of being a bit too undisciplined.

I was going to start a thread called "who you should marry" to discuss this sort of thing in general. Just the main point being to not just follow emotions and lust, but to impose some level or pragmatic consideration on yourselves, a somewhat unemotional evaluation of how the future will play out, as was one of my grandparent's advice. Fail to plan is a plan to fail.

Then, in this broken modern age where women are confused because of career brainwashing and feminism and men are sometimes displaced due to 'droughts' in their home countries if you have something which half works, perhaps just stick with it. You have to make the decision...

Cynllo said:

This is my take. Maybe this is your best shot. Maybe you'll encounter other women in the future who are older and you find less desirable.

I would tell her at least some of your qualms and how you want to make it work. Tell her that your attention needs to be rationed, that you need to build a social circle.

For a life-long relationship, you both need to give yourselves to each other. To forget about other prospects, to develop a life path, to find how you live with each other.

Part of this is you - I have lived with people and never had a problem with any of them, as they have to live within my boundaries and I will respect theirs. It is a man's job to establish them.

Click to expand...

I don't seem to have matured too much in my thinking about relationships.

I struggle to get my head around giving myself over without worrying about being trapped. I know this is irrational to a degree and I don't really know what I'm going to be trapped from doing...taking a random vacation alone? I think it's more about always wanting the option to walk away. Basically classic commitment phobia.

Maybe if this was the 'right' person I wouldn't think this way but I increasingly doubt that I will find someone who fits an ideal.

I sometimes make the mistake in thinking if I was just alone I'd be more dedicated to make changes or take risks and make things happen once the smothering cozy blanket of being in a relationship is pulled away.

Of course what often happens is that once single the emotional instability leads to lots of awful habits, much worse than the despised comfort addiction that can take place in a relationship.

Of course when alone you COULD suddenly get a firecracker inside of you to smash down all the barriers imagined or otherwise and get out there in the world but there's no guarantee that will happen.

I do tend to think there is some self-development you need to do alone ...but then I've been single for huge stretches of my life and I don't know how much developing was really going in. It may just be a myth I've created in my head.

@Tippy well done for sharing. These raw, complex stories are what makes the courting and relationship sections in particular come to life.

Although you hinted at your thoughts about the purpose of this thread, there are no questions in your posts. So, it isnt clear if you are seeking advice, or to vent, or both.

May I ask what is your intention(s) for this thread? Can you try to be as specific as possible?

Asking direct questions and offering clearly stated objectives may lead to a more fruitful discussion and greater insights for yourself.

Tippy said:

I don't seem to have matured too much in my thinking about relationships.

I struggle to get my head around giving myself over without worrying about being trapped. I know this is irrational to a degree and I don't really know what I'm going to be trapped from doing...taking a random vacation alone? I think it's more about always wanting the option to walk away. Basically classic commitment phobia.

Click to expand...

In marriage, you become one unit. So you need to take into account the needs of both people. It’s not easy, but if you find you are too individualistic, it may be better not to get married. You simple can’t just do what you want and ignore your wife. Lead for sure, but if you are always just doing what you want, she will eventually resent you.

Tippy said:

Maybe if this was the 'right' person I wouldn't think this way but I increasingly doubt that I will find someone who fits an ideal.

Click to expand...

You need to get over this or you’ll never find someone ‘good’ enough. Everybody is flawed and messed up. While some personality types fit better together than others, it’s never completely smooth sailing.

Steady Hands said:

@Tippy well done for sharing. These raw, complex stories are what makes the courting and relationship sections in particular come to life.

Although you hinted at your thoughts about the purpose of this thread, there are no questions in your posts. So, it isnt clear if you are seeking advice, or to vent, or both.

May I ask what is your intention(s) for this thread? Can you try to be as specific as possible?

Asking direct questions and offering clearly stated objectives may lead to a more fruitful discussion and greater insights for yourself.

Click to expand...

I think I frustratingly want to know something perhaps only I can internally know...but I suppose getting some advice is helpful...and that question is:

Should I marry this woman or not?

Green flags:
only one previous sexual partner
not political/leftist
no jabs
feminine (cooks/cleans etc...)
wants a family
loyal
under 30
lives at home
willing to put me first/sacrifice in order to support me


red flags:
only child (quite needy and self centered)
moody
can be smothering/devouring
neurotic (getting obsessively worried about health)
jealous/paranoid
some odd qualities (one example of this is how she will often regurgitate my own phrases and ideas back to me
and seemingly forget or not realise she's doing this...I found it cute at first but sometimes it feels like I am with an AI
machine rather than a human capable of independent thought)
impractical (with money) and aloof in regards to some worldly matters (part of this is having lived a sheltered life in Albania)
not interested in religion and even discourages it to a degree in me (though also quite malleable as an antidote to this)
a little chubby

I think I just find it hard at times to see her as a mother. She's cute and endearing and so on but when I think of raising a family with her it feels well...I can say this because it's anonymous here...that in some way she's still a child herself. I don't know how women mature or become more like mothers but I often feel like I am taking care of a child when I have her around with me. I thought the 'good' thing about these traditional women is they haven't been out in the world as much but with the emotional behaviour and neediness it feels like there's some childishness there, which I also have as well at times.

I think the way she looks at times in terms of wearing makeup and even her behaviour sexually makes me sometimes see her in more of a harlot type way even though I have feelings for her as well. Maybe I have some idea of the kind, virtuous non lust inducing woman as mother and she isn't that. I think there's something in Albanian women to pronounce the sexual.

Here is the rub...I don't wanna be alone forever and think it's because I wasted this chance but I also don't want to go fully into this out of fear that if I don't I'll never have another chance with a woman.

@Tippy

Credit to you for sharing all this in detail. It takes a level of strength and self-awareness given the context of this forum. I also hope the process of writing has been helpful for you in giving clarity to your thoughts.

This situation, like many, is very complex and cannot be understood or resolved in a few short words, and there is a huge amount of information missing (e.g., your and her life history). With that in mind, I've read over this thread in full with the hope to draw out some key questions or issues to consider.

I'll be unable to offer further guidance in depth so I hope this will be practical and useful for you. This will likely be information overload so it may be useful to consume this in chunks and come back to parts of it later.

---

On Her

It sounds like she has been loyal, dedicated and committed to you for some time now, and even put up with physical distance, time apart, your emotional-mental instability, arguments, and more. This alone shows A LOT of evidence that she is worthy of further commitment. Likewise;

Your list of her green flags seems solid, and her red flags don't seem insurmountable per se, although her secular beliefs stand out as the possible chasm between you two in terms of deeper values, depending on how strong your faith is and how committed you are to regular church attendance.

On her being needy, anxious, dependent and childish - these are all typical realities of men in their 30s/40s who have girlfriends or wives in their 20s. Of course some women are far too emotional unstable for any man to reasonably handle. Nonetheless, IMO, it is unreasonable to expect that a significantly younger women will be on the man's level regarding emotional stability and maturity.

^ To manage this, it is up to the man to (a) set boundaries, expectations and behavioural norms from the very beginning, (b) take full responsibility for being the leader in the relationship, and continue to take ownership on an ongoing daily basis.

Further, (c) men must be the master of their emotions, if a relationship based on respect is what you want. This may sound tiring but ultimately this is the role of a man. There are no days off. Most men get lazy and over time their wife loses respect and attraction for them. Below is a video that discusses such issues [ref 1]. Still, the life you can build together can be very rewarding.

On You

You seem burdened by a combination of emotional instability, spiritual languishing, and mental confusion.

You mentioned a 'mental breakdown' and other mental-emotional stressors. It is absolutely IMPERATIVE that these issues are acknowledged and addressed. If you want to fast track this process, consider professional support and consider 'shopping around' until you find a professional who you think will be suitable. Ideally that person would be male, skilled within the area in which YOU need help, conservative/Christian, and objective. Getting your emotional balance under control will help with re setting your baseline functioning that will enable your future planning to become easier. In the meantime I've included a resource for you to consider [ref 2]

I sense that your mind and soul are being guided by away-from rather than towards motivations. In your final line you refer to the fear of being alone and the fear of being trapped. Ultimately everything material will come to an end, and every path includes a risk. Getting married involves the risk of divorce, being unmarried involves the risk of being alone, etc. Instead of focusing on the trade-off between risks, start mapping out your deepest values and goals, and then work backwards from there, while putting aside all distractions (the other, near infinite options).

I would create a list of flags ('green, yellow and red') for yourself, as you imagine them from her perspective, and start working on the red flags IF you can, i.e., if they are within your control. IMPORTANT: Ensure you write down all your green flags as well. This process of structured self-development can be daunting so it is vital to remind yourself of all your strengths, resources and positive values.

On your Plans for You and the Relationship

Until you get married under God and/or have children together, you are not locked in. You have time to work out if you two will really make things work, well before you make a long-term commitment.

Some questions follow, which you can choose to answer here or by yourself, for your own sake

If you decided to commit, do you have a rough outline of where the relationship would be headed in the next 1, 5 and 10 years? This could include things like:
- where you would live?
- what would you and her do for work?
- will she come to church with you?
- would you want to have children?
- who would be around to support you (her friends/family, your friends/family)?

On your immediate plans:

- Have you considered what she is looking for in terms of you, your behaviour and her lifestyle?
- If you meet again, how can you avoid triggering the fights in the past and instead build more positive experiences together?
- Do you have trusted elders / advisors from your church, men's group, vocation, friends and others than can provide counsel on this matter and/or on your personal and spiritual development?
- If not, what is stopping you from getting expert guidance?
- If it turns out that you two are incompatible for the long run, do you have a plan to move forward?
- No matter what happens, what will you continue to do to nourish your body, mind and soul? (sleep, exercise, sunlight, diet, church, friends, hobbies, avoiding stress)?

Conclusion

From the casual reader's perspective, it remains to be seen if this relationship is salvageable, if you are right for each other, or if you are ready for commitment and the huge responsibility of children. If this relationship is to succeed, or the next, you may need to accept these things as non-negotiables:

(a) Taking full responsibility and leadership in the relationship from the start or at least, from right now

(b) Mastering your emotional state and general mental health

(c) Being willing to take risks and accept the possibility of things not working out, even if you try your hardest. As it has been said, "fortune favours the bold"

(d) Not trying to do this alone. Instead activity seek help from personal, professional and spiritual guides.

I wrote this because I believe you have the personal resources, capacity, and motivation to make positive changes in your life that can take you closer to God, your goals, and the relationship you desire. I hope this helps. All the best.

---

Resources

Note. I do not endorse everything in this video, e.g., where 'spinning plates' is discussed. However for this case I think there are many useful ideas that can be considered by the OP.

[1] BTT #68 - How Men Jeopardize Relationships & Get Dumped | Entrepreneurs in Cars



Blurb:

"Most men start off in a strong frame, early in relationships, then through a process of betatization by 1,000 concessions, he becomes unattractive to his girlfriend or wife.

Maintaining frame is paramount to a strong LTR, and most men get it wrong

Some areas I'll cover include, but aren't limited to:

- Inviting a problem woman into your life
- Becoming 'exclusive' fast
- Not spinning plates, or bringing up 'where do we stand' before she does
- Saying 'yes' too often, and not saying 'no' enough
- Failing her shit tests
- Being too needy
- Lacking in conventional male competency skills
- Not enforcing boundaries with male friends & social media
- Getting involved with a woman higher than your own SMV
- Letting the alpha widow enter your relationship
- Making her your everything
- Losing contact with his friends, and hobbies"

Click to expand...

[2] Erasing Fears & Traumas Based on the Modern Neuroscience of Fear | Huberman Lab Podcast #49



Blurb:

"In this episode, I discuss fear and trauma, including the neural circuits involved in the "threat reflex" and how specific experiences and memories come to activate that system. I also discuss how our body is involved in trauma and fear. First, I describe the logic of fear mechanisms and how "top-down" processing-- meaning connections from the parts of the brain that assign meaning to our feelings, are involved in fear and erasing fears and traumas. Then I discuss what successful fear and trauma treatment must include and consider various treatments for whether they meet that standard, such as EMDR, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Ketamine and other drug-assisted therapies and more. I also review new data on how 5 minutes per day of deliberate, self-imposed stress can erase fear and depression. And I review the role that social connection plays in erasing or maintaining fears by activating specific molecular pathways in the brain and body. Finally, I review supplementation with over-the-counter compounds for their effects on anxiety and fear and when to take them, if at all.

Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introducing Fear, Trauma & Trauma
00:02:15 Athletic Greens, InsideTracker, Helix Sleep
00:06:49 What is Fear?
00:11:45 Autonomic Arousal: “Alertness” vs. “Calmness”
00:13:44 Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis (HPA axis)
00:17:36 “The Threat Reflex”: Neural Circuits for Fear
00:28:24 Controlling Fear: Top-Down Processing
00:32:27 Narratives: “Protective or Dangerous”
00:35:58 Attaching Fear to Events: Classical Conditioning & Memory
00:41:45 How Fear Learning Occurs: Long Term Potentiation, NMDA
00:46:10 Extinguishing (Reducing) Fears
00:50:25 Cognitive (Narrative) Therapies for Fear
00:57:56 Repetition of Narrative, Overwriting Bad Experiences with Good
01:05:28 EMDR: Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing
01:14:00 Social Connection & Isolation Are Chemically Powerful
01:18:23 Trans-Generational Trauma
01:25:00 PTSD Treatments: Ketamine, MDMA, oxytocin
01:39:25 How Do You Know If You Are Traumatized?
01:46:16 Deliberate Brief Stress Can Erase Fears & Trauma
01:49:50 Erasing Fears & Traumas In 5 Minutes Per Day
01:59:42 Nutrition, Sleep, & Other General Support Erasing Fear & Trauma
02:02:30 Supplements for Anxiety, Fear: Saffron, Inositol, Kava
02:10:00 Synthesis
02:11:46 Zero-Cost Support, Sponsors, Patreon, Supplements, Instagram, Twitter"

Click to expand...

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I want to reply to all these points soon in more details myself.

Steady Hands said:

@Tippy

Credit to you for sharing all this in detail. It takes a level of strength and self-awareness given the context of this forum. I also hope the process of writing has been helpful for you in giving clarity to your thoughts.

This situation, like many, is very complex and cannot be understood or resolved in a few short words, and there is a huge amount of information missing (e.g., your and her life history). With that in mind, I've read over this thread in full with the hope to draw out some key questions or issues to consider.

I'll be unable to offer further guidance in depth so I hope this will be practical and useful for you. This will likely be information overload so it may be useful to consume this in chunks and come back to parts of it later.

---

On Her

It sounds like she has been loyal, dedicated and committed to you for some time now, and even put up with physical distance, time apart, your emotional-mental instability, arguments, and more. This alone shows A LOT of evidence that she is worthy of further commitment. Likewise;

Your list of her green flags seems solid, and her red flags don't seem insurmountable per se, although her secular beliefs stand out as the possible chasm between you two in terms of deeper values, depending on how strong your faith is and how committed you are to regular church attendance.

On her being needy, anxious, dependent and childish - these are all typical realities of men in their 30s/40s who have girlfriends or wives in their 20s. Of course some women are far too emotional unstable for any man to reasonably handle. Nonetheless, IMO, it is unreasonable to expect that a significantly younger women will be on the man's level regarding emotional stability and maturity.

^ To manage this, it is up to the man to (a) set boundaries, expectations and behavioural norms from the very beginning, (b) take full responsibility for being the leader in the relationship, and continue to take ownership on an ongoing daily basis.

Further, (c) men must be the master of their emotions, if a relationship based on respect is what you want. This may sound tiring but ultimately this is the role of a man. There are no days off. Most men get lazy and over time their wife loses respect and attraction for them. Below is a video that discusses such issues [ref 1]. Still, the life you can build together can be very rewarding.

On You

You seem burdened by a combination of emotional instability, spiritual languishing, and mental confusion.

You mentioned a 'mental breakdown' and other mental-emotional stressors. It is absolutely IMPERATIVE that these issues are acknowledged and addressed. If you want to fast track this process, consider professional support and consider 'shopping around' until you find a professional who you think will be suitable. Ideally that person would be male, skilled within the area in which YOU need help, conservative/Christian, and objective. Getting your emotional balance under control will help with re setting your baseline functioning that will enable your future planning to become easier. In the meantime I've included a resource for you to consider [ref 2]

I sense that your mind and soul are being guided by away-from rather than towards motivations. In your final line you refer to the fear of being alone and the fear of being trapped. Ultimately everything material will come to an end, and every path includes a risk. Getting married involves the risk of divorce, being unmarried involves the risk of being alone, etc. Instead of focusing on the trade-off between risks, start mapping out your deepest values and goals, and then work backwards from there, while putting aside all distractions (the other, near infinite options).

I would create a list of flags ('green, yellow and red') for yourself, as you imagine them from her perspective, and start working on the red flags IF you can, i.e., if they are within your control. IMPORTANT: Ensure you write down all your green flags as well. This process of structured self-development can be daunting so it is vital to remind yourself of all your strengths, resources and positive values.

On your Plans for You and the Relationship

Until you get married under God and/or have children together, you are not locked in. You have time to work out if you two will really make things work, well before you make a long-term commitment.

Some questions follow, which you can choose to answer here or by yourself, for your own sake

If you decided to commit, do you have a rough outline of where the relationship would be headed in the next 1, 5 and 10 years? This could include things like:
- where you would live?
- what would you and her do for work?
- will she come to church with you?
- would you want to have children?
- who would be around to support you (her friends/family, your friends/family)?

On your immediate plans:

- Have you considered what she is looking for in terms of you, your behaviour and her lifestyle?
- If you meet again, how can you avoid triggering the fights in the past and instead build more positive experiences together?
- Do you have trusted elders / advisors from your church, men's group, vocation, friends and others than can provide counsel on this matter and/or on your personal and spiritual development?
- If not, what is stopping you from getting expert guidance?
- If it turns out that you two are incompatible for the long run, do you have a plan to move forward?
- No matter what happens, what will you continue to do to nourish your body, mind and soul? (sleep, exercise, sunlight, diet, church, friends, hobbies, avoiding stress)?

Conclusion

From the casual reader's perspective, it remains to be seen if this relationship is salvageable, if you are right for each other, or if you are ready for commitment and the huge responsibility of children. If this relationship is to succeed, or the next, you may need to accept these things as non-negotiables:

(a) Taking full responsibility and leadership in the relationship from the start or at least, from right now

(b) Mastering your emotional state and general mental health

(c) Being willing to take risks and accept the possibility of things not working out, even if you try your hardest. As it has been said, "fortune favours the bold"

(d) Not trying to do this alone. Instead activity seek help from personal, professional and spiritual guides.

I wrote this because I believe you have the personal resources, capacity, and motivation to make positive changes in your life that can take you closer to God, your goals, and the relationship you desire. I hope this helps. All the best.

---

Resources

Note. I do not endorse everything in this video, e.g., where 'spinning plates' is discussed. However for this case I think there are many useful ideas that can be considered by the OP.

[1] BTT #68 - How Men Jeopardize Relationships & Get Dumped | Entrepreneurs in Cars



Blurb:



[2] Erasing Fears & Traumas Based on the Modern Neuroscience of Fear | Huberman Lab Podcast #49



Blurb:

Click to expand...

I think that for me my green flags are:

- have a full time responsible job (teacher)
- have interesting hobbies (writing/stand up)
- have lived a life full of challenges and risks (living abroad in different countries)
- am quite knowledgeable on topics of interest to me
- am empathic generally
- have overcome several addictions (alcohol and p...not sure that's a green flag)

Red flags

- horrible diet
-zero exercise
- mentality of a cheater (talking to and texting other girls)
- zero tidying/cleaning and live in somewhat awful conditions
- prone to mood swings
- lazy and slothful
- bad teeth/posture/messed up foot that causes me to walk a little weird

Honestly my problem might just be that I want the freedom of travelling whenever I want or if I feel like meeting women, talking to them without feeling guilty. It might just be that I still don't feel like I've had enough or learnt enough from game or pick up or whatever.

Basically I met this current gf after only a few hundred sets and trying out the Roosh daybang type method.

I then spent a further 8 months learning 'london day game' model to zero results. I think part of me thinks I need to go fully into this world of dating or whatever even more to fully know that it's wrong. And it isn't just about lays it's more that I feel some essential step of developing into a man has not been taken yet and that maybe going further into this world of travel/meeting more women might force me to make that evolution as I would absolutely have to work out, get more confident and improve my style to succeed. But if I stay with the current gf, I will stay how I am because there isn't an incentive to improve particularly. She loves me completely for who I am and possibly even likes me more when I am frail and messed up as she has that 1950s stand by your man type attitude.

So this is often the thinking I get...'aww damn if we live together I can't just travel when I want and do whatever I want to do like entertaining fantasies of other women.' It probably is that simple and that pathetic on one level.

But it also is not JUST that. I still feel some vague sense of some lack in me as a man that I fear settling down will permanently band aid. I think that's the deeper reality that I sometimes use the whole casual pick up fantasy stuff as an arena where that lack can be found (or not) if that makes sense. And maybe that's wrong of me. Probably there are no initiation rituals so I've kind of put a lot of my developing into a man type feelings around acceptance from women.

So part of it is feeling I have some unfinished business around a selfish individualized lifestyle. I think I almost want to go the Roosh way of being absolutely repulsed by this life and then hopefully being able to fully devote myself to something higher. Right now I'm still feeling quite torn.

I think I have a lot of hostility towards women and fear they want to control my movements and that shacking up with a woman represents a sort of death. I won't be as courageous or creative or social once shacked up. I start seeing it like a cage. But of course I have control of that. I have the keys. It's just I don't feel that way when I think about it. I panic about being trapped....I guess that's a main part of it.

Obviously you can take my own self-analysis as maybe skewing towards the negative as I have generally quite a negative self-image.

stadtaffe said:

Don't linger in a childless relationship too long. The traditional way would be to only court until married. If you are part of this fallen world though as some of us are then keep relationships with women which are childless short, or you will damage both of your lives.

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Good advice.

Things are more complicated than ever these days. I agree that propaganda and dislocation present two of the biggest problems in the modern age. I don't see them changing that much, which is sorta sad. I've found that you can have a lot of things in life but if you don't really have traditional living, you won't be fulfilled even though it does take work, of course. I think a lot of the "mid life crisis" people talk about isn't really a crisis at all, it's that life becomes silly if you aren't forced to keep on the work rat race (which then will just turn into a stress) and/or invent things through your kids. While we should focus on God since that's what life is all about, we often get swallowed up in the commotion and madness of the world, sadly. When you get used to doing things a certain way and other people change in their lives (like your relatives or friends getting married or having families, etc), most things just end up being a hassle - where the single person gets asked to do things as if their not having a family is signing up for doing more things, which makes little sense. A good example of that [hassle] is all the nonsense people do to maintain (even weak) social or familial relationships, like gift giving and "remembering" day X, Y or Z that as a dude you couldn't care less about. That's actually a benefit of having a wife, since they are all about that and after a while, it gets old. Really old. Sorta off topic, but proves the point that we just are what we are after 30-something (early 30s?) and it doesn't change much.

Tippy said:

Honestly my problem might just be that I want the freedom of travelling whenever I want or if I feel like meeting women, talking to them without feeling guilty. It might just be that I still don't feel like I've had enough or learnt enough from game or pick up or whatever.

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Tippy said:

I think I have a lot of hostility towards women and fear they want to control my movements and that shacking up with a woman represents a sort of death. I won't be as courageous or creative or social once shacked up. I start seeing it like a cage. But of course I have control of that. I have the keys. It's just I don't feel that way when I think about it. I panic about being trapped....I guess that's a main part of it.

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I have not watched it but note a video above entitled before the train wreck.

You better make it clear to this girl even if indirectly that you can't keep it in your pants so she knows if she stays with you what to expect down the track.

The more correct and courageous path however would be to split from her cleanly and do whatever you have to do while still single and childless, remembering that there are plenty of fish in the sea.

Don't waste her time (and your time) in a half-relationship. It's just no good being in relationships with women when you feel like they are putting you in a cage, be single.

My armchair relationship advice, limited as it is, is this:

Sounds like you are both too immature to commit to something as difficult as marriage (but soo many of us said 'to hell with it' and went ahead anyway). She is not religious and therefore does not care about sin like you might and does not recognize the fallen nature of man and in need of redemption and repentence. While you have to set boundaries that work for both of you so you get your space, guess who you can't get a break from? Kids. Any small personality defects you have will be exacerbated 100x when you have kids. In a secular sense she sounds better than most women but any green flags can be as fleeting as a nice body, there is no guarantee they will continue in the long run, her nature is just as fallen as yours. If two people are not working hard on their personal character, even in a secular sense, then I don't see any reason why their marriage should succeed unless the culture and society pressures couples to refrain from divorce.

stadtaffe said:

I have not watched it but note a video above entitled before the train wreck.

You better make it clear to this girl even if indirectly that you can't keep it in your pants so she knows if she stays with you what to expect down the track.

The more correct and courageous path however would be to split from her cleanly and do whatever you have to do while still single and childless, remembering that there are plenty of fish in the sea.

Don't waste her time (and your time) in a half-relationship. It's just no good being in relationships with women when you feel like they are putting you in a cage, be single.

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I guess so but I doubt I will be revealing my desires etc... to her.

I very often think I should end it or will at some point but not sure this doubt ever goes away really. I could learn to live with it and try to keep my straying tendencies at least somewhat under control.

Well done for having the courage to reflect and open up. It's good that you recognised your strengths as well. A few streamlined thoughts follow.

(1) Your persistent concerns about missing out, being trapped, and wanting more variety or experiences are common psychological and spiritual hangovers from a promiscuous lifestyle, and are exacerbated by social media and other external influences. This is especially relevant for guys who feel they missed out when they were younger and have compulsive urges to "catch up".

Given the above, and your recognition of having a negative mindset, unresolved personal growth, and a sense of being trapped... this all reinforces my recommendation to set clear goals, pray, and get help from your local priest / church elder and a skilled male mental health professional.

To improve your diet, exercise, motivation, mindset, sexual compulsions etc, you will benefit from having some practical and interactive accountability. Whatever you do, don't try to manage all this alone.

(2) It appears that the ethical choice at this stage is to let things go with the woman.

When you resolve the lingering, internal dilemma and feel confident in your ability to fully commit to one woman, then you could check in again with congruence. It is probable that she may have moved on if you return in say 2 years from now. However given your tumultuous history together, it is unlikely that much will change with the relationship unless you put in considerable effort to make change happen *from within*, and this takes time. Putting in the effort now will give you a great chance of being in a strong position to be husband material for her or more likely, another woman, before hitting 40.

(3) I urge you to take on some of the ideas offered here, consider what will be most useful for you, and then actually go and do them.

Try to avoid the common trap of paralysis by analysis, by taking some action immediately. The key here: start small and do not delay.

(4) Then, *after* you have tried some things out, report back here with your progress, e.g. behaviours, achievements, challenges, and reflections.

FYI: Over and over again, guys start threads about a problem and/or ask for guidance, but then disappear and never report back on their progress. Or they keep complaining, apparently without taking any action. It seems many OPs are driven by a need for emotional/social support rather than an internal drive to improve themselves and their situation.

This desire for validation is perfectly normal and is fine, but it usually goes unacknowledged by the OP as their deeper intention for posting. Thus, members who reply are left to wonder what was the point of contributing solution-focused ideas in the first place. I hope this thread proves to be the exception.

Well I'm at a bit of a crossroads now.

I did talk to a therapist and the therapist tried to give me the perspective that it's normal to have doubts about a woman and even normal to flirt a bit or try to attract the opposite sex when in a relationship, using the example of women wearing make up for male attention and men enjoying company of other women at work and stating that it's totally normal and possibly unavoidable to entertain fantasies of the opposite sex.

He made a point to me that sometimes a more selfish move might actually be better for a longer term relationship. For example, if taking solo trips and even flirting with women on these trips stops me feeling caged, then such activities might be necessary for me to stay in the relationship longer term.

He stated to me it was normal and natural for me to have such hunting urges as a man and there's no escape from that.

I spoke to another older guy who is still a bachelor who suggested the idea of staying with the woman and possibly indulging in some infidelity and just accepting the guilt that comes with that. He mentioned lust and the itch that needs scratching as a kind of torture associated with being a man.

I'm not sure what I will do. I did book a trip to visit her end of the year but I'm not sure it's a wise idea. I think I'll give myself a deadline to end it by the end of the year so I could potentially visit in person to say goodbye maybe or I could keep this relationship limbo going longer and try to negotiate my internal drives with the stability offered. I'm still not sure what's best.

Tippy said:

Well I'm at a bit of a crossroads now.

I did talk to a therapist and the therapist tried to give me the perspective that it's normal to have doubts about a woman and even normal to flirt a bit or try to attract the opposite sex when in a relationship, using the example of women wearing make up for male attention and men enjoying company of other women at work and stating that it's totally normal and possibly unavoidable to entertain fantasies of the opposite sex.

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Its absolutely possible to refuse to entertain fantasies of the opposite sex. Note I'm not saying its possible to avoid temptation, I'm saying its possible to purposefully and resolutely battle with one's passions. A secular therapist won't tell you that because to them the passions are not even something to be avoided so they will have no experience of what it looks like to resist them. And they would not even comprehend why one may want to avoid them. There is a built in bias in the cross-section of society that a therapist will meet, not least because the type of people that turn to them will for the most part not be spiritually mature strugglers.

Tippy said:

I spoke to another older guy who is still a bachelor who suggested the idea of staying with the woman and possibly indulging in some infidelity and just accepting the guilt that comes with that. He mentioned lust and the itch that needs scratching as a kind of torture associated with being a man.

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Don't do that, there's nothing worse than guilt. Consiously choosing that is the opposite of repentence and the road to hell. There is no prospect of grace or peace if you choose that direction.

@OrthoSerb is right, there is a demoralization campaign to make you think resisting lust is impossible but it's a lie that fulfills itself when you accept it.

Tippy said:

it's totally normal and possibly unavoidable ... a more selfish move might actually be better ... then such activities might be necessary for me to stay in the relationship longer term ... there's no escape from that ... indulging in some infidelity and just accepting the guilt that comes with that ... a kind of torture associated with being a man.

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The common denominator in all these statements is denying your own agency in the question.

It's only impossible if you think it's impossible. You do have to actually, truly, deeply desire to resist the temptation of lust & strange women and pray for God's help. Kind of like quitting cigarettes or porn. The hardest part IME is actually wanting to quit, not just knowing that you should.

In the end whose view are you going to accept? Modern therapist/bachelor boomer? Or the teachings of Christ, the Apostles and the Saints of the Church? They all say that fidelity and even chastity are possible, desirable, commendable and ordained by God.

To achieve something great you have to sacrifice something. You can't cling to your sins while attempting to attain marriage, a Holy mystery of the Church.

I can't help you with whether this woman is the right woman or not, personally when I was considering proposing to my wife the main questions were 1) could I see this woman as the mother of my children, and 2) did she make me want to become a better man. The answer to both was yes in my case, in addition of course to an overall assessment of her character and other factors.

Best of luck.

Just came back from a mini trip to Albania where I met up with the gal and we spent time together.

I could see the value of having a partner rather than chasing lust in those moments. Watching a movie, going for a walk, having a coffee.

However, I was only there for about 36 hours and so in a way it made the whole thing thrilling/exciting and not representative of the kind of daily drudgery of living together.

Also, as soon as I went back to Poland I was back to my instagram chats, fantasizing and even considering escorts.

What I understand now is that time alone seems to be the factor that makes me most sexually obsessed and I struggle to regulate myself when alone.

Why are you wasting her (precious) time? Do you ever even think about this? If you don't then stick to escorts and pr0n if you like as you can enjoy all that sexual energy witout any true commitment.

"daily drudgery" means growing up and be a man just so you know.