Bitcoin and Crypto Thread

[Australia Sucks]

Austrian economists predicted the collapse of the soviet union based on first principles decades before it happened while retarded mainstream economists kept publishing in their textbooks that the USSR would become the number 1 economy in the world and overtake the US. Martin Armstrong though not strictly an Austrian economist leans that way but with a more real world style analysis that is less academic and he produced a lot of sharp analysis.

By the way Scorpion you haven't addressed this nor the fact that certain Austrian economists predicted the 2008 global financial crises while mainstream economists were asleep at the wheel. And Austrian economists theories about "crack up booms" and business cycle theory seem to describe the real world a lot better than mainstream economist nonsense.

Also Georgist economists (based on Henry George) also have a good understanding of things (from a different angle) which explains are lot of stuff that mainstream economists are wrong about. And their disciples (Fred Folvary, Michael Hudson, Fred Harrison) have made a lot of accurate predictions about the economy and land price cycles.

Mainstream economists are the dumbest of all and never predict anything right. Keynes was a complete and utter fraud.

 

[Australia Sucks]

An example of one of Keynes dumb predictions is that humans would only work 15 hours a week due to technological progress making everyone wealthier. Of course the Georgist economists knew long ago that economic rent (primarily in the form of rising rents and land prices) would soak up the majority of productive gains of society causing people to still have to work long hours despite technological process. Henry George built on the brilliant work of economists like David Riccardo who talked about economic rent.

 

[Blade Runner]

The purpose of fiat/credit money is to act as the lifeblood of the economy, readily facilitating investment and trade. The fact that you can't stick $1000 in cash under your mattress for twenty years and retain your purchasing power isn't some "fiat scam", it's literally by design. Money is supposed to be spent or invested (deployed into the economy), not hoarded (removed from the economy).

The part you don't understand, and we've pointed it out many times previously, is that fiat and debasement has its purpose in stealing labor. Who are the money changers, central bankers, using mathematics and compounding interest to ... not have to work! We all know. That's the game. Lifeblood of the economy? You repeat their arguments like the good little stooge they desire.

Bitcoin cannot function successfully as a currency due to its deflationary nature.

It's not a currency, for the 1000th time. Rich people don't work or invest to hold ... currency. Do they?

The point is that humans are not robots they have needs and wants so money hoarding due to a deflationary currency only goes so far its not an endless death spiral process.

Exactly.

They want consumption (unnecessary) to keep the game going. This is obvious to all of us here at CiK.

Why are people increasingly getting crushed, Scorpion? It's not because of a deflationary currency. In fact, quite the opposite! The system, as I said, is about the slow, mathematical stealing of energy (BTC, real money) from people who work, do the work, provide the goods and services.

You should know this by now.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Why are people increasingly getting crushed, Scorpion? It's not because of a deflationary currency. In fact, quite the opposite!

Scorpion doesn't want to tackle the fact that monetary inflation always ends in total collapse of the currency and society at large on a long enough time horizon. The results are always the same from the time of Roman emperors collapsing the economy with coin clipping, to the Weimar republic, Zimbabwe, the Argentine Peso, the Venezuelan Bolivar etc. Yes if a currency collapses you can just issue a new form of fiat but you just wiped out the wealth of most of the working class and middle class in your country. The complete and utter ignorance of history that Scorpion shows is ridiculous. Also Scorpion accuses Austrian economists of bloviating but they predicted lot more things accurately; the collapse of the soviet union, the collapse of the Japanese economy in the late 1980s, the 2008 global financial crises, etc then the bloviating neo Keynesian mainstream economists ever did.

 

[scorpion]

I've said pretty much everything I care to say on the topic for now. You can continue bloviating into the wind in the tradition of your beloved Austrians; no one is listening.

 

[Blade Runner]

I've said pretty much everything I care to say on the topic for now. You can continue bloviating into the wind in the tradition of your beloved Austrians; no one is listening.

You have to at least try to respond to the fact that since we know all fiat goes to zero certainly and all world reserves meet their demise, how can you claim that they are the lifeblood of the economy? That seems like the definition of parasite, which is in fact the thesis we are putting forward. They suck the lifeblood out of the economy (as I said, work/labor) over time.

 

[scorpion]

You have to at least try to respond to the fact that since we know all fiat goes to zero certainly and all world reserves meet their demise, how can you claim that they are the lifeblood of the economy? That seems like the definition of parasite, which is in fact the thesis we are putting forward. They suck the lifeblood out of the economy (as I said, work/labor) over time.

The fact that "all fiat goes to zero" is not an indictment of fiat, it is an indictment of the physical world. Everything eventually goes to zero. People live and die, companies come and go, governments rise and fall, countries are wiped off the map and new ones replace them. This is simply the nature of the world. Expecting some sort of permanence in the economic sphere is therefore a line of thinking that falls somewhere between utopianism and sheer lunacy. You are attempting to hold money/currency to a standard that is impossible to meet, simply by virtue of the fact that it inherently must exist in a physical reality defined by entropy, which dictates that every unit of matter is in a constant and inevitable state of decay.

You seem to be hyper-fixated on the specific properties of fiat currency/credit money, judging them to be "unfair", "parasitical" or perhaps outright evil. Specifically, you seem to object to the creation of money "out of thin air", and to the "enslaving" nature of interest (usury). And I would agree that on paper, these aspects of fiat appear objectionable. But the thing is, you should not judge fiat - or anything else, for that matter - simply on paper. Because the reality is that fiat/credit money works extremely well in practice. Is it a perfect system? No. But the perfect system does not exist. We can say with certainty that fiat/credit money has enabled the creation of the modern world. We know this because we are living in it. That is no small feat, and any objection you make to it must be entirely hypothetical.

Rather than focusing on the mechanics of fiat/credit money, I would encourage you to expand your view to the broader economy as a whole. What makes an economy successful? What is the actual definition of wealth? How can governments help to expand the economy and create wealth for their people? The reality is that wealth is not money, it is the sum total of goods and services that can be produced by a nation. It is a combination of human capital, natural resources and systems/institutions that work together to create prosperity. When I say that fiat/credit money is the lifeblood of the economy, I mean that it simply facilitates the utilization of these factors to a higher degree than any alternative system.

At the end of the day, money does not matter. What matters is harnessing the productive power of people and resources to the highest possible degree, because this is what produces wealth and prosperity. Fiat does this very well, despite its flaws. If you want an inarguable example, look at the Chinese economic miracle over the last few decades. They've pulled hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in a relatively short amount of time, and have become the industrial powerhouse of the world. They have done this with a well-designed industrial policy financed through a government-controlled central bank using... fiat currency! And yes, the Chinese have their own economic problems, but like I said, there is no system without flaws, and everything in a finite, entropic world tends to break down over time. We can only organize our systems as best we can, and despite its flaws, fiat/credit money has proven itself as the most successful model for encouraging economic development and prosperity.

 

[Blade Runner]

When I say that fiat/credit money is the lifeblood of the economy, I mean that it simply facilitates the utilization of these factors to a higher degree than any alternative system.

But it doesn't, because we've described times when economies were better and standard of living improved more, WITHOUT these. You argue that because history is history, and we live in it, and we've had some progress, ALL of it is due to fiat. That's a logical fallacy and we have pointed out why at least 3 times now. The advances in tech came in spite of worsening money.

At the end of the day, money does not matter. What matters is harnessing the productive power of people and resources to the highest possible degree, because this is what produces wealth and prosperity.

You will have MORE productivity when people can rely on a solid money. You can harness the power of the past and can short term incentivize workers, but your cost WILL be major collapse in the future, just like in all ponzis, like pension schemes. That's exactly what the US shows, and China is now showing.

With fiat, another thing you don't mention because of its profound moral implications, is that they can tax you for WAR that you don't agree with, and never would. Read Lyn Alden if you don't want to agree with me, just because. Fiat is literally the game of the money changers and war mongers. It's disgusting, and even more disgusting that you ignore this really sad reality. Usury isn't something you can just give me one line about being bad and then excuse all the bad done with it, which is worldwide debasement - of women, moral decay, and a war machine.

They have done this with a well-designed industrial policy financed through a government-controlled central bank using... fiat currency

They could only do this, and for a short time (that's the tradeoff as above) by ALSO tricking others into playing their slave labor game, and the US leaders were complicit. Again, China is a Ponzi, and they know it, but it was worth it for them. Now they at least have options, and will deal with the current issues from one of relative power, vs always being a communist death state under Mao.

 

[JayR]

Read Lyn Alden if you don't want to agree with me, just because. Fiat is literally the game of the money changers and war mongers.

It signed my book!

 

[scorpion]

But it doesn't, because we've described times when economies were better and standard of living improved more, WITHOUT these. You argue that because history is history, and we live in it, and we've had some progress, ALL of it is due to fiat. That's a logical fallacy and we have pointed out why at least 3 times now. The advances in tech came in spite of worsening money.

You will have MORE productivity when people can rely on a solid money. You can harness the power of the past and can short term incentivize workers, but your cost WILL be major collapse in the future, just like in all ponzis, like pension schemes. That's exactly what the US shows, and China is now showing.

They could only do this, and for a short time (that's the tradeoff as above) by ALSO tricking others into playing their slave labor game, and the US leaders were complicit. Again, China is a Ponzi, and they know it, but it was worth it for them. Now they at least have options, and will deal with the current issues from one of relative power, vs always being a communist death state under Mao.

As I said:

We can say with certainty that fiat/credit money has enabled the creation of the modern world. We know this because we are living in it. That is no small feat, and any objection you make to it must be entirely hypothetical.

Credit money helped create the modern world. This is a fact. You can say that, "Well, it WOULD have been even better with a hard money standard!", but you have no evidence for this claim except your own belief. You may even be correct on your point - the problem is you have no way of proving it. In contrast, I can point to everything that exists in the modern world and say, "Despite it flaws, we have it pretty good." And ultimately you have no rebuttal to this except, "Yeah, but trust me, it could be better!" And I'm not sure what examples you're referring to about when "when economies were better" (perhaps you, like Australia Sucks, are under the illusion that credit money did not exist prior to the Federal Reserve - but it had already been in use for hundreds of years by then).

With fiat, another thing you don't mention because of its profound moral implications, is that they can tax you for WAR that you don't agree with, and never would. Read Lyn Alden if you don't want to agree with me, just because. Fiat is literally the game of the money changers and war mongers. It's disgusting, and even more disgusting that you ignore this really sad reality. Usury isn't something you can just give me one line about being bad and then excuse all the bad done with it, which is worldwide debasement - of women, moral decay, and a war machine.

This is a silly argument, and falls apart with a cursory reading of history, which provides endless examples of war occurring in the pre-credit money/fiat era. In fact, wars of conquest were often specifically waged to plunder gold and silver! Again, you seem to be assigning blame to fiat that should more accurately be placed on human nature itself. Do you really think that human greed would disappear under a hypothetical Bitcoin standard? That people wouldn't find a way to cheat and abuse the system, or to organize it for violent and selfish ends? If they managed to do so under a gold standard pre-fiat, why would it be any different under Bitcoin?

 

[Blade Runner]

You may even be correct on your point - the problem is you have no way of proving it. In contrast, I can point to everything that exists in the modern world and say, "Despite it flaws, we have it pretty good." And ultimately you have no rebuttal to this except, "Yeah, but trust me, it could be better!" And I'm not sure what examples you're referring to about when "when economies were better"

We have given examples of when properly backed money has resulted in better economic progress and standard of living. So yes, we do know.

Do you really think that human greed would disappear under a hypothetical Bitcoin standard?

No.

If they managed to do so under a gold standard pre-fiat, why would it be any different under Bitcoin?

Technology and the world being completely different in a mutually assured destruction environment. It's a long answer to explain in total, but it should be obvious that humans are increasingly going to ditch "hot" wars, at least ones that involve human "invaders".

 

[Blade Runner]

View attachment 21340

It signed my book!

Lyn does a fantastic job. She's really been a great resource for all those seeking the truth about money, investments, history, and of course, Bitcoin.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

Also Scorpion accuses Austrian economists of bloviating but they predicted lot more things accurately; the collapse of the soviet union, the collapse of the Japanese economy in the late 1980s, the 2008 global financial crises, etc then the bloviating neo Keynesian mainstream economists ever did.

The Japanese economy "collapsed" in the 1980's? If so, how is it that Japan is thriving in 2025? Japan is one of the safest, most "interesting" societies on planet earth with one of the most financially viable economies in the world yet you claim their economy "collapsed" in the 1980's? And according to you and your Austrian (((economists))) there was a financial "crisis" in America in 2008? Funny, I have lived in America my entire life and 2008 doesn't even register as a blip on my personal and financial radar. I don't remember anything extraordinary happening in 2008 except that my net worth increased. These "events" only register if you are a crypto jew "speculator" who pumps and dumps paper assets onto the normie masses at the expense of the working poor.

And see, this is the problem with gamma nerds who sit at computers and push paper and "speculate" and build nothing. This is the problem with lawyers, and bankers, and stock brokers, and "investors" who are addicted to the jew system of gambling with their own and other people's money. (((They))) don't really understand money as it exists in the real world. Cash is money. And the US dollar is the most valuable cash, but only if you are an entrepreneur who builds things or sells things (BTC, crypto, stocks, and bonds are not things). If you are not an entrepreneur who manufactures an affordable product that many people want, or are an independent contractor in the trades, or if you are not in sales of hard goods (cars, tractors, appliances, clothing, shoes, food, etc.) then your financial future could very well be limited because you have nothing that nobody really wants or needs. So sure, if you have no material, in demand skill sets then bitcoin and crypto are perfect for such a non-tradesman speculative leech. Nobody needs bitcoin and stocks and bonds and treasuries but everybody wants cash because without cash most people cannot purchase food or pay the rent.

*In before the, "Yeah but, one day in 2025, or 2026, or 2027, or 2045 the US dollar will collapse and be worth nothing!" (which of course is more JQ derived speculative bullsh*t).

 

[magoo]

The Japanese economy "collapsed" in the 1980's? If so, how is it that Japan is thriving in 2025? Japan is one of the safest, most "interesting" societies on planet earth with one of the most financially viable economies in the world yet you claim their economy "collapsed" in the 1980's? And according to you and your Austrian (((economists))) there was a financial "crisis" in America in 2008? Funny, I have lived in America my entire life and 2008 doesn't even register as a blip on my personal and financial radar. I don't remember anything extraordinary happening in 2008 except that my net worth increased. These "events" only register if you are a crypto jew "speculator" who pumps and dumps paper assets onto the normie masses at the expense of the working poor.

And see, this is the problem with gamma nerds who sit at computers and push paper and "speculate" and build nothing. This is the problem with lawyers, and bankers, and stock brokers, and "investors" who are addicted to the jew system of gambling with their own and other people's money. (((They))) don't really understand money as it exists in the real world. Cash is money. And the US dollar is the most valuable cash, but only if you are an entrepreneur who builds things or sells things (BTC, crypto, stocks, and bonds are not things). If you are not an entrepreneur who manufactures an affordable product that many people want, or are an independent contractor in the trades, or if you are not in sales of hard goods (cars, tractors, appliances, clothing, shoes, food, etc.) then your financial future could very well be limited because you have nothing that nobody really wants or needs. So sure, if you have no material, in demand skill sets then bitcoin and crypto are perfect for such a non-tradesman speculative leech. Nobody needs bitcoin and stocks and bonds and treasuries but everybody wants cash because without cash most people cannot purchase food or pay the rent.

*In before the, "Yeah but, one day in 2025, or 2026, or 2027, or 2045 the US dollar will collapse and be worth nothing!" (which of course is more JQ derived speculative bullsh*t).

Dude what are you on about? A friend of mine is father worked in construction and got hit with the 2008 crisis. Later I filed for the bankrupcy of his company pro bono. 100% honest hardworking honest people.

The guy cried in the warehouse. Later had a stroke and his half paralyzed.

When a recession hits its MAINSTREET which suffers the most. Wall street gets bailouts.

if a company makes the mistake of investing in equipment which will only give results after 3-5 years and has the bad luck of getting hit by a crisis. It goes bankrupt. Or bought by bigger companies

The cascade of defaults are compressor role. And it tears down working families the most.

 

[PurpleUrkel]

Dude what are you on about? A friend of mine is father worked in construction and got hit with the 2008 crisis. Later I filed for the bankrupcy of his company pro bono. 100% honest hardworking honest people.

The guy cried in the warehouse. Later had a stroke and his half paralyzed.

When a recession hits its MAINSTREET which suffers the most. Wall street gets bailouts.

if a company makes the mistake of investing in equipment which will only give results after 3-5 years and has the bad luck of getting hit by a crisis. It goes bankrupt. Or bought by bigger companies

The cascade of defaults are compressor role. And it tears down working families the most.

What are you on about? I thought you were a Frenchman lawyer who pushes paper and builds nothing (except your own windows on a farm in the country you hate)? Blah, blah, "I know a guy" who lost it all in 2008. Probably another guy with an LLC leveraged to the hilt like our speculator in chief Trump who "loves debt" and has "gotten rich off of debt." Guys trying to build their businesses too big too fast probably using illegal labor and not going to church. Play bankster jew games, win jew prizes.

I've been in the US my entire life and every year is better than the last. If you are failing or have "failed" economically or in business due to taking on jew bankster debt or via some imaginary jew pys-op financial or covid scam "crisis" then that's on you for having a sh*t business that is leveraged to the hilt that nobody patronizes, wants, or cares about.

"Recessions" don't really exist for those free of The Matrix. If you experience recessions and they negatively effect you then this is a sign that you are a financial normie who is invested in The Matrix up to his neck with a job in another man's corporation, a normie 401K (or the French equivalent), jew invented BTC, "rental properties," stocks, bonds, Roth IRA's, and all the other jew invented scams of usury.

 

[magoo]

What are you on about? I thought you were a Frenchman lawyer who pushes paper and builds nothing (except your own windows on a farm in the country you hate)? Blah, blah,

You speak highly of me sir. I don´t deserve such praise.

Your free to come and help me. I did also rendered the walls. But I will hire a general contractor and he will do the rest. Buying materials. Coordinating workers it´s honestly not worth the pennies I save and headaches. But I did enjoy it as an experience. It´s incredibly how my mind now works. One of my kids his water pistol jammed. I fixed that shit in a heartbeat. 10 years ago that would have been impossible. I understand much better a lot of systems.

"I know a guy" who lost it all in 2008. Probably another guy with an LLC leveraged to the hilt like our speculator in chief Trump who "loves debt" and has "gotten rich off of debt." Guys trying to build their businesses too big too fast probably using illegal labor and not going to church. Play bankster jew games, win jew prizes.

Wrong.

He had unpaid social security from his employees and suppliers debt. Not bank debt. He had one big job which didn´t pay him with the recession. I managed to clean his debt. But the social security took him to criminal court. And the best I managed was for him to get a fine. And avoid jail. Because his wife worked with him. Social security also tried to bring her in. And I had to shout to the inspector to shut the fuck up. The woman wasn´t in the case. And they had to bring formal complaints. They didn´t.

I've been in the US my entire life and every year is better than the last. If you are failing or have "failed" economically or in business due to taking on jew bankster debt or via some imaginary jew pys-op financial or covid scam "crisis" then that's on you for having a sh*t business that is leveraged to the hilt that nobody patronizes, wants, or cares about.

Are you retarded? Serious question or just blatantly ignorant. You seem red pilled on jews. But how stupid can you be not to realize companies dont have to be leveraged to go bankrupt?

In the past just a crop failure would sentence a family to starvation. You think it was jews which didn´t made rain happen? There´s a million reasons for why a recession can happen. Nowadays credit is one of the main one. But not the only one.

I blame jews for being the facilitators of the worse the elites try to implement. But jews alone are not the problem. They let themselves be used. Because they are spineless weasels. But they have allies and bosses.

But your right about Trump. When you think of a wise ruler. He is exactly the opposite. Which sucks and is sad for all of us. Because this is not a movie. When reality hits. It´s painful.

"Recessions" don't really exist for those free of The Matrix. If you experience recessions and they negatively effect you then this is a sign that you are a financial normie who is invested in The Matrix up to his neck with a job in another man's corporation, a normie 401K (or the French equivalent), jew invented BTC, "rental properties," stocks, bonds, Roth IRA's, and all the other jew invented scams of usury.

Matrix? You mean the Keanu Reeves aka Samseau movies?

Your wrong about rental properties also. If you have rental properties you don´t experience recessions much. Rental properties are always an income. The income might lower. But the cashflow is uninterrupted. A house never disappears. The need for a roof always exists.

Unless the government seizes it. It´s a neverending cash cow. The best income on earth. And I tried and studied all of them. It´s boring. I give you that.

You seem like the Sadam Hussein general showing on tv telling everybody everything was fine. "We will crush the american infidels. "

Two days ago marked the 572th anniversary of the fall of the byzantine empire. On 29th of May 1453 the byzantine empire collapsed. Marking the end of the roman empire. It would have been great to hear the purpleurkel of that time: Hey don´t believe the matrix nothing will happen. We are doing great. While cities were sacked. And people slaughtered.

The dollar will not collapse. It will lose it´s relevance. Gradually.

I´m heading for the beach tomorrow morning. So I won´t be able to entertain our conversation further. But feel free to do so. I will reply later on.

Btw where is Kona?

 

[scorpion]

Lyn does a fantastic job. She's really been a great resource for all those seeking the truth about money, investments, history, and of course, Bitcoin.

She's really been a great resource for all those seeking the truth

She's

 

[Australia Sucks]

Because the reality is that fiat/credit money works extremely well in practice.

This is an assertion backed by no evidence. The world is doing well in spite of fiat thanks to the miracles of technology. All fiat does is redistribute existing wealth to people at the top of the pyramid.

The point of the argument that all fiat goes to zero is about timeframe. Your argument about entropy is facetious. Yes everything goes to zero eventually but the average lifespan of a typical fiat currency is less than one human lifespan. An average fiat currency lasts anywhere between 35 - 100 years (different sources give different estimates for average fiat currency lifespan). Gold has been going strong for over 5000 years now which is far beyond the timeframe that any human needs to plan. No person is thinking about their direct descendants 5000 years from now.

Fiat Currency Graveyard: A History of Monetary Folly - Gini Foundation

Economic & Healthcare Security | Decentralized, Sustainable & Equitable Monetary & Governance System | Fast Cryptocurrency | Transaction Privacy | Real-World Commerce | Protect Human Rights

ginifoundation.org

At the end of the day, money does not matter.

The idea that money doesn't matter comes from mainstream economists using a long list of highly theoretical assumptions which do not apply to the real world. Money absolutely does matter. There are many second order and third order effects. The Cantillon effect shows that when you print money the newly printed (mostly loaned into existence) does not get distributed evenly or fairly and certain people benefit at the expense of others. Furthermore inflation distorts and shortens people time preferences.

Even your hero Keynes admits that money does matter:

"Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalist System was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, Governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become "profiteers," who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.

Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of Society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.

In the latter stages of the war all the belligerent Governments practised, from necessity or incompetence, what a Bolshevist might have done from design. Even now, when the war is over, most of them continue out of weakness the same malpractices. But further, the Governments of Europe, being many of them at this moment reckless in their methods as well as weak, seek to direct on to a class known as "profiteers" the popular indignation against the more obvious consequences of their vicious methods. These "profiteers" are, broadly speaking, the entrepreneur class of capitalists, that is to say, the active and constructive element in the whole capitalist society, who in a period of rapidly rising prices cannot but get rich quick whether they wish it or desire it or not. If prices are continually rising, every trader who has purchased for stock or owns property and plant inevitably makes profits. By directing hatred against this class, therefore, the European Governments are carrying a step further the fatal process which the subtle mind of Lenin had consciously conceived. The profiteers are a consequence and not a cause of rising prices. By combining a popular hatred of the class of entrepreneurs with the blow already given to social security by the violent and arbitrary disturbance of contract and of the established equilibrium of wealth which is the inevitable result of inflation, these Governments are fast rendering impossible a continuance of the social and economic order of the nineteenth century. But they have no plan for replacing it."

First published in "The Economic Consequences of the Peace" (Nov. 1919).

Inflation- John Maynard Keynes

When I say that fiat/credit money is the lifeblood of the economy, I mean that it simply facilitates the utilization of these factors to a higher degree than any alternative system.

Fiat does the opposite. Firstly it discourages savings which is the bedrock of economic growth. Savings = capital formation/investment = jobs growth + increased output. It discourages savings because people are more likely to spend money if they know their savings will lose value rather than save the money. There is plenty of evidence of this. Under the current full fiat system average savings rates are much lower than under the partial gold standard system of before. And fake savings (i,e, printing money) is just wealth redistribution its not genuine capital formation. Yes for a period of time cranking up the money printers can cause a "crack up boom" but eventually that house of cards will collapse.

Fiat also encourages a more financialized economy just look at the growth in the financial sector and what it is now as a percentage of GDP compared to pre 1971. Finance is non productive beyond a certain point as it just becomes shuffling assets around while clipping a fee.

Notice how every single meaningful econmic trend/indicator turned negative after the partial gold standard system was removed in 1971. How many ounces of gold you could buy with your annual salary has kept declining since 1971 and the number of years annual salary it takes to buy a house has kept rising since 1971 also. Also labour share of GDP shrunk since post 1971. Also since 1971 total debt to GDP has risen exponentially which is not a coincidence. A devaluing currency encourages increased borrowings because borrowing is more attractive since the debt gets ifnlated away.

Also a full fiat system encourages more speculation as people move up the risk curve to try and make their savings maintain its value. Hence the rise of memestocks, shitcoin gambling, derivatives, gambling, etc

Credit money helped create the modern world. This is a fact. You can say that, "Well, it WOULD have been even better with a hard money standard!", but you have no evidence for this claim except your own belief.

1971 is certainly in the modern world. I already pointed out that all the key metrics worsened post 1971 when Nixon removed the last linkages to gold. Sure pre 1971 was only a partial gold standard but partial hard money standard is still better than full fiat standard.

This is a silly argument, and falls apart with a cursory reading of history, which provides endless examples of war occurring in the pre-credit money/fiat era. In fact, wars of conquest were often specifically waged to plunder gold and silver!

There is plenty of evidence provided by credible historians and economists about how wars were shorter and involved fewer troops pre fiat. The reasoning being that the governments had to finance the wars through taxation and borrowings. People would only swallow so much taxation increases before revolting and the bond markets and banks would only finance so much borrowing. But when you have a printing press you do not ask anybody to give you the money you are essentially just taking the money without permission (by devaluing everybody elses savings) hence you can do a lot more before you get pushback or fail (the currency collapsing. Hence why a lot of fiat currencies have collapsed during war time historically. So yes wars will still exist without fiat due to human nature but there will be less funding so the wars will be smaller and shorter in duration on average.

 

[Australia Sucks]

Even if Lyn is a tranny (it may or may not be the case) its irrelevant to her arguments regarding economics.

 

[Australia Sucks]

(perhaps you, like Australia Sucks, are under the illusion that credit money did not exist prior to the Federal Reserve - but it had already been in use for hundreds of years by then).

Nobody is disputing long history of credit money. David Graeber the Anthropologist wrote a book which you can download the PDF of by googling it called "debt the first 5000 years" and he argues that debt existed even before commodity money did. But pretty much since the start of advanced civilization credit money and commodity money existed side by side most of the time. J.P. Morgan once said "gold is money, everything else is credit". The point was that for most of hsitory despite the existence of credit money isntruments you had the option ultimatrely to settle things in real money (commodity money) which sat at the apex of the financial pyramid as the final settlement layer. When you remove that optiona and force irredemable fiat money as the sole money you distort everything in the economy and financial ecosystem.